Another dominant performance by Kei Igawa!

[madmike1 109,248]

YOU GUYS ARE MORONS AND WASTING OUR TIME, ARGUING ABOUT NOTHING!!!!!!!!

Yeah. It took me way too long to realize that.

[oxscott 845]

Yeah. It took me way too long to realize that.

admission is the first step of recovery, we're all very proud of you.

[AFJF 40,907]

Get out of town-You mean the discussion of sports and relative players can be based on opinion? And no one is ever 100% right?

That just can't be. How can that be possible?

See what you taught yourelf today?

SD...madmike has put you on his ignore list. Are you going to be okay? I mean, I can't imagine the pain you're feeling right now. I know we're rival fans but you're a good guy and I hope you don't do anything to hurt yourself over this.

[Green Jets & Ham 653]

"There are three kinds of lies .. lies .. damned lies .. and statistics"

MARK TWAIN

This semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster inaccurate arguments.

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

There are three kinds of lies .. lies .. damned lies .. and statistics

MARK TWAIN

This semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster inaccurate arguments.

You nailed it Ham.

The pervsive use to rely on statistics and to use them as the be all and end all to define players is loaded with fallacies, and only a fool would use them exclusively.

[The Troll 97,408]

You want to call him productive, ok, but he is horrible with RISP, and he does not make great outs. If you want to call that productive, be my guess.

That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs.

But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes.

[madmike1 109,248]

That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs.

But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes.

In fact Dunn is UNDERRATED because a lot of people have some of the mistaken ideas that scott does...

[Sharrow 37,774]

I wish Dunn didn't cost $10 million or the buccos might have been able to swing a deal for him.

[madmike1 109,248]

I wish Dunn didn't cost $10 million or the buccos might have been able to swing a deal for him.

For who gonzalez?

[Sharrow 37,774]

For who gonzalez?

Don't remember who it was for, was just a rumor.

[madmike1 109,248]

Don't remember who it was for, was just a rumor.

Adam Laroche isn't that much worse then Dunn. That was a very good trade.

[Sharrow 37,774]

Would have been nice to get them both though.

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

That is funny because Adam Dunn's best OPS numbers in ANY situation last season happened to be with RISP and 2 outs.

But don't let the cold hard facts get in the way of your eyes.

OPS does not tell the whole story. Dunn walked a lot, I don't deny that.

But, Dunn's average with RISP declined with men on base, than in comparison to when no one was on.

Those are also the cold hard facts. Don't just tell one side of teh story.

His avg with RISP was awful.

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

Dunn 2006 OPS

None on/None out: .711

None on 1/2 out: .966

Men on 2 outs: .727

Man on 3rd < 2 outs: .555

See the trend?

His BA in those situations?

None on/None out: .201

None on 1/2 out: .276

Men on 2 outs: .183

Man on 3rd < 2outs .150

Yeah, this guy is the epitome of clutch.

People, dont let OPS be your be all end all.

[Sharrow 37,774]

But, Dunn's average with RISP declined with men on base, than in comparison to when no one was on.

That makes no sense, how can there be RISP with no men on base? I guess when Dunn is at bat, there's always a man in scoring position; The Big Donkey can mash.

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

That makes no sense, how can there be RISP with no men on base? I guess when Dunn is at bat, there's always a man in scoring position; The Big Donkey can mash.

I said his average declined when there was RISP, in comparison to when no runners were on. The outs that he made, were non-productive outs, from when I watched.

Yes, teh man can mash. But, that is his only talent. ala Kingman-my original statement.

[mbn007 2,854]

You nailed it Ham.

The pervsive use to rely on statistics and to use them as the be all and end all to define players is loaded with fallacies, and only a fool would use them exclusively.

Stats are a valuable item used as part of the evaluation of a player. But only a part. Watching a player for an extended period of time is still the best way to evaluate said player.

Using stats as the defining guide will give one a false reading more often then not.

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

Here is Dunn describing h mself in an interview this February-The man describes his own season last year as "terrible":

Dunn looks noticeably leaner, he said he's done more running and eating much better. New hitting coach Brook Jacoby visited him for about a month ago in Houston.

Dunn said he just wants to forget last season, when he 40 home runs, drove in 92 runs and scored 99 runs. He also hit .234, struck out a major league high 194 times and committed 13 errors.

"I

[AFJF 40,907]

Here is Dunn describing h mself in an interview this February-The man describes his own season last year as "terrible":

Dunn looks noticeably leaner, he said he's done more running and eating much better. New hitting coach Brook Jacoby visited him for about a month ago in Houston.

Dunn said he just wants to forget last season, when he 40 home runs, drove in 92 runs and scored 99 runs. He also hit .234, struck out a major league high 194 times and committed 13 errors.

"I

[mbn007 2,854]

Man oh man...that Dunn is a real moron. Doesn't he know anything about sabermetrics;)

Wait a minute. Aren't stats the be-all-end-all?

[Scott Dierking 132,009]

Wait a minute. Aren't stats the be-all-end-all?

The point I know the three of us are trying to make is that ANYONE can use stats to support any argument that they have. Dunn with the OPS is a perfect case. My use of RISP counters it in a different way.

The truth lies somewhere in between, to be honest.

ANYONE who tells you that HE knows how to use stats correctly, and that stats provide true context is a BS artist. plain and simple.

Watch the game. Know the game. Talk about the game in generalities and not stat specific definitions.

[mbn007 2,854]

The point I know the three of us are trying to make is that ANYONE can use stats to support any argument that they have. Dunn with the OPS is a perfect case. My use of RISP counters it in a different way.

The truth lies somewhere in between, to be honest.

ANYONE who tells you that HE knows how to use stats correctly, and that stats provide true context is a BS artist. plain and simple.

Watch the game. Know the game. Talk about the game in generalities and not stat specific definitions.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Well put.

[Green Jets & Ham 653]

Someone just stole Igawa from me in the fantasy draft

I was saving him for my late round sleeper and one of you guys just swooped in and stole him

[Sharrow 37,774]

I said his average declined when there was RISP, in comparison to when no runners were on. The outs that he made, were non-productive outs, from when I watched.

Yes, teh man can mash. But, that is his only talent. ala Kingman-my original statement.

That might have been what you meant, but its not what you said. And you guys are right, if you take away/discount his home runs, he sucks; except for getting on base so much.