joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 appears my prediction is already proven correct. you gotta be kiddin me sj & jgb. you guys really think this type of incident happens because parents are too protective from kids failing? You guys really think that if this kid of asian decent is a product of this soceity's poor tactics? how many college kids are currently attending college in the us right now? how many times has an incident like this occurred among this group. is it fair to say this is a 1 in a million type of incident? the internet itself has a lot more to do with what helps make these wackos more wacko imo. You can find a website out there to help you do any fukked up thing you're sick mind can think of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 you gotta be kiddin me sj & jgb. you guys really think this type of incident happens because parents are too protective from kids failing? You guys really think that if this kid of asian decent is a product of this soceity's poor tactics? how many college kids are currently attending college in the us right now? how many times has an incident like this occurred among this group. is it fair to say this is a 1 in a million type of incident? the internet itself has a lot more to do with what helps make these wackos more wacko imo. You can find a website out there to help you do any fukked up thing you're sick mind can think of these days. Uh,calm down,, all i said was it will be grades or jilted,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 you gotta be kiddin me sj & jgb. you guys really think this type of incident happens because parents are too protective from kids failing? You guys really think that if this kid of asian decent is a product of this soceity's poor tactics? how many college kids are currently attending college in the us right now? how many times has an incident like this occurred among this group. is it fair to say this is a 1 in a million type of incident? the internet itself has a lot more to do with what helps make these wackos more wacko imo. You can find a website out there to help you do any fukked up thing you're sick mind can think of these days. it's statistics. there are more of these incidents per capita than there were 50 years ago. this is one reason. another is desensitivity to violence. another is ready access to assualt weapons. another is a society of diminishing personal responsibility and a culture of victimhood. so yes, i do think this is part of the problem but no i'm not so naive as to think this is the only compenent to it. and your internet point, parents need to suck it up and tell their kids "no" to these types of sites and violent movies and stop trying to be the "cool" babyboomer parents. "it's too hard to monitor" isn't an excuse--who the hell said parenthood was easy?? i submit to you that if it's easy: you're not doing a good job. if you depend on society to keep your kids out of trouble, you're part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFan712 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 lol--i do believe very strongly that a lot of problems go back to this. my dad never let me win and when i finally beat him at 1-on-1 in basketball it actually meant something. likewise, when we won the little league city championship one year it actually meant something because we remembered how disappointing it was to lose the other years. if the first disappointment i ever faced in my life was being dumped by my college girlfriend maybe i would've freaked out--but when it happened i thought, "this is nothing compared to losing that t-ball game back in '83." What a relief, I kick my kids butts in bowling every chance I get. I sure am glad they're going to turn out ok because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Uh,calm down,, all i said was it will be grades or jilted,, so are you implying I maybe read into you're post a little too much. maybe yer right sj. sorry bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 What a relief, I kick my kids butts in bowling every chance I get. I sure am glad they're going to turn out ok because of this. for the record, i think using them as pins is going a little too far though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFan712 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 for the record, i think using them as pins is going a little too far though. Nah, It'll make them tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 it's statistics. there are more of these incidents per capita than there were 50 years ago. this is one reason. another is desensitivity to violence. another is ready access to assualt weapons. another is a society of diminishing personal responsibility and a culture of victimhood. so yes, i do think this is part of the problem but no i'm not so naive as to think this is the only compenent to it. and your internet point, parents need to suck it up and tell their kids "no" to these types of sites and violent movies and stop trying to be the "cool" babyboomer parents. "it's too hard to monitor" isn't an excuse--who the hell said parenthood was easy?? i submit to you that if it's easy: you're not doing a good job. if you depend on society to keep your kids out of trouble, you're part of the problem. great post johnny. using the multi reasoning factor holds a lot more water than you're 1st post in this thread & I agree 100% there are a lot of contributing factors to the demise of bad kids. As far as parents monitoring what their kids view on the internet, I'm not sure I agree with you. maybe they should be heavily monitored at early ages sure but since my youngest turned 16 I stopped monitoring what he views. sure i'll check the history once in a while and fortunatly have found nothing alarming. there comes a time however when you have to hope you've instilled enough common sense & moral values & allow them to make their own choices. I enjoy goin back & forth with you on issues a lot btw as I respect you're intellectual points of view. I do draw the line when non parents tell parents how they should monitor there kids living habits. my son is 18 living under my roof. please enlighten me as to how I should monitor his computer use so he doesn't become a campus sniper next year. I trust him to make good decisions & see no changes in his lifestyle that alarm me into thinking he's taken a turn for the worse in any direction. I think there come s a point where you feel you've done all you can as far as monitoring them. what am i missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Im going bowling tonight, we are a pin short can I borrow your kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Im going bowling tonight, we are a pin short can I borrow your kid? hahaha too funny ecurb. I'd loan you one of my kids but they got add bad & I doubt you could get em to stand still long enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 great post johnny. using the multi reasoning factor holds a lot more water than you're 1st post in this thread & I agree 100% there are a lot of contributing factors to the demise of bad kids. As far as parents monitoring what their kids view on the internet, I'm not sure I agree with you. maybe they should be heavily monitored at early ages sure but since my youngest turned 16 I stopped monitoring what he views. sure i'll check the history once in a while and fortunatly have found nothing alarming. there comes a time however when you have to hope you've instilled enough common sense & moral values & allow them to make their own choices. I enjoy goin back & forth with you on issues a lot btw as I respect you're intellectual points of view. I do draw the line when non parents tell parents how they should monitor there kids living habits. my son is 18 living under my roof. please enlighten me as to how I should monitor his computer use so he doesn't become a campus sniper next year. I trust him to make good decisions & see no changes in his lifestyle that alarm me into thinking he's taken a turn for the worse in any direction. I think there come s a point where you feel you've done all you can as far as monitoring them. what am i missing here? until you post a scan of your player's association card, i will not respect your NFL-related opinions anymore. einstein was never in black hole, either. it is intellectually dishonest to attack someone's viewpoint with this canard. and methinks you doth protest too much, whenever anyone talks about bad parenting you show up to argue you're not a bad parent. i'm just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 wow,, you are missing his point,, he agrees that coaches do what you do,, I did the same thing.. he is saying the coaches/parents who dont even BEGIN to tell the kids their short-comings so they can improve,, You cantell a kid they arent performing they waythey are capable of by being gentle and offering instruction, ,if the kid doesnt care then by all means backoff, ,but you have to tell the kids how to improve or when the were wrong.. You both are missing my point. What he says is happening, isn't. Coaches and parents are putting more pressure on their kids these days. You want to know why kids are doing this? A better theory would be they are pissed from being on 3 teams each season and going to after school care until 6pm every night. It isn't because we are wiping their a$$e$ and telling them it doesn't stink. The exact opposite is happening. Neither of you is involved in any youth sports programs at the moment so I think you are off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 you gotta be kiddin me sj & jgb. you guys really think this type of incident happens because parents are too protective from kids failing? You guys really think that if this kid of asian decent is a product of this soceity's poor tactics? how many college kids are currently attending college in the us right now? how many times has an incident like this occurred among this group. is it fair to say this is a 1 in a million type of incident? the internet itself has a lot more to do with what helps make these wackos more wacko imo. You can find a website out there to help you do any fukked up thing you're sick mind can think of these days. Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You both are missing my point. What he says is happening, isn't. Coaches and parents are putting more pressure on their kids these days. You want to know why kids are doing this? A better theory would be they are pissed from being on 3 teams each season and going to after school care until 6pm every night. It isn't because we are wiping their a$$e$ and telling them it doesn't stink. The exact opposite is happening. Neither of you is involved in any youth sports programs at the moment so I think you are off base. first: saying someone lacks the standing to make an argument is called an ad hominem attack and is referred to as a logical fallacy for a reason because it discredits a viewpoint without refuting said viewpoint's merits (or lack thereof)--think pelosi lecturing condi that because she has no kids, her view re the war are invalid, irregardless of their substance. second: i teach bball to inner-city youth as part of the big brothers program and i can guarantee you that's a lot more rough and tumble than some surburbia t-ball team. you were saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 until you post a scan of your player's association card, i will not respect your NFL-related opinions anymore. einstein was never in black hole, either. it is intellectually dishonest to attack someone's viewpoint with this canard. and methinks you doth protest too much, whenever anyone talks about bad parenting you show up to argue you're not a bad parent. i'm just sayin. nah, you doth profess too much. especially as a non parent. until you've spoken on this parenting topic from experience, I think a lot of parents on this board will agree with me it just doesn't hold much water. I'll show up in any thread where a non parent preaches to us parents how we should act. Am I a bad parent? i've no idea. I ask myself this question a lot. i'm a proud parent though thats for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 nah, you doth profess too much. especially as a non parent. until you've spoken on this parenting topic from experience, I think a lot of parents on this board will agree with me it just doesn't hold much water. I'll show up in any thread where a non parent preaches to us parents how we should act. Am I a bad parent? i've no idea. I ask myself this question a lot. i'm a proud parent though thats for sure when did you play in the NFL? why waste your time posting NFL-related viewpoints considering your viewpoints mean nothing since you've never played? be a man, if you think i'm wrong, say why instead of putting your fingers in your ears "nah nah nah non-parent! non-parent!" if i told you i saw your kid about to put his finger in the light socket would you ignore me as a non-parent? you don't have to have a kid to know some things are bad for them. i suppose you also tell your kids never to express a viewpoint unless they have direct personal experience? i wonder how they do never answering any questions on their history exams, since they weren't there. the human mind is able to extrapolate and interpret data--apply it to diverse situations outside of the realm of personal experience. at least that's how it's supposed to work. maybe you stick to only things you've dealt with, in which case please stop posting about pro football unless you've played it. thanks! ps: how did this become a referendum on your parenting? oh yeah, because of your extreme defensive attitude. this "debate" had nothing to do with you personally and neither did my opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 first: saying someone lacks the standing to make an argument is called an ad hominem attack and is referred to as a logical fallacy for a reason because it discredits a viewpoint without refuting said viewpoint's merits (or lack thereof)--think pelosi lecturing condi that because she has no kids, her view re the war are invalid, irregardless of their substance. second: i teach bball to inner-city youth as part of the big brothers program and i can guarantee you that's a lot more rough and tumble than some surburbia t-ball team. you were saying? I already refuted your viewpoint. At no point did I say that you are not qualified to have an opinion. I am saying that you aren't an expert on this subject matter and that people with kids would be a better judge of the amount of pressure that is put on children today. they think they are naturally destined to excell at everything have been robbed of any of the skill necessary to deal with disappointment, you snap when something relatively major goes wrong we've created a nation of ninnies who don't know how to cope with failure because they are never allowed to "practice" dealing with minor inconveniences like losing a little league game These are simplistic statements and they are not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I already refuted your viewpoint. At no point did I say that you are not qualified to have an opinion. I am saying that you aren't an expert on this subject matter and that people with kids would be a better judge of the amount of pressure that is put on children today. These are simplistic statements and they are not true. well it sounds like your kid legitamately kicks your ass so it's not a question about letting him win or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 well it sounds like your kid legitamately kicks your ass so it's not a question about letting him win or not Cool. I am glad we both agree that I was right and you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Cool. I am glad we both agree that I was right and you were wrong. not a question of right or wrong, more of a question of degree (logical fallacy: straw man, reframe argument). i know you're a smart man (logical fallacy: flattery) and can recognize that there's at least a kernel of truth to what i'm saying (logical fallacy: equate getting the trunk through the door to getting the entire elephant in)--even if you think i grossly overestimate the effect. how can you resist the "logic" of my argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 number is up to 33 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 when did you play in the NFL? why waste your time posting NFL-related viewpoints considering your viewpoints mean nothing since you've never played? be a man, if you think i'm wrong, say why instead of putting your fingers in your ears "nah nah nah non-parent! non-parent!" if i told you i saw your kid about to put his finger in the light socket would you ignore me as a non-parent? you don't have to have a kid to know some things are bad for them. i suppose you also tell your kids never to express a viewpoint unless they have direct personal experience? i wonder how they do never answering any questions on their history exams, since they weren't there. the human mind is able to extrapolate and interpret data--apply it to diverse situations outside of the realm of personal experience. at least that's how it's supposed to work. maybe you stick to only things you've dealt with, in which case please stop posting about pro football unless you've played it. thanks! ps: how did this become a referendum on your parenting? oh yeah, because of your extreme defensive attitude. this "debate" had nothing to do with you personally and neither did my opinions. ok johnny, lets use you're analogy , no I have no professional affiliation with the nfl, therefore I would look pretty silly stormin into mangini's office & telling him who to draft & who to start in game 1 wouldn't I. In that same sense, you look pretty silly as a non parent to us parents when it comes to brashly telling us we must monitor everything our children decide to click on via the internet. be a man? I'm not saying that you are wrong in stating that parents need to monitor internet usage, i'm laughing to myself at how easy you make it sound. Apparently if we parents all abided by johnny's 3 easy steps to parenting the world would be rid of senseless shootings, short dresses etc. All i'm saying is I think sj is very well qualified to offer advise on parenting, and while I will always respect you're opinion on many topics, when you speak out about raising kids, I will always think to myself, wait til the poor bastid has to practice what he preaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 33 dead and we're talking about freakin' parenting in this thread. How many times has this happened again? It does not happen often. And what the hell does Little League Baseball coaching have to do with any of this? In Little League, its the parents and the coaches who take things WAY, WAY too seriously and not the kids. The kids get sick of it and sometimes screw up just to piss off the coach and or parents. I remember doing it, its a way to say F-U right back, especially when the rest of your team has your back because they have the same crap being spewed at them. Oh, and, if all the parents here or non-parents arguing or whatever here believe its the internet, think again. You wanna pay attention to something? Pay attention to the crowd of kids your kids hang out with. Meet them first or something, make your own evaulation on them and try to keep track on the things they do, say, heck, even the smells of them when they come in at night. Check out your kid or kids' friends, not the damn internet, unless your kid doesn't have many or no friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 ok johnny, lets use you're analogy , no I have no professional affiliation with the nfl, therefore I would look pretty silly stormin into mangini's office & telling him who to draft & who to start in game 1 wouldn't I. In that same sense, you look pretty silly as a non parent to us parents when it comes to brashly telling us we must monitor everything our children decide to click on via the internet. be a man? I'm not saying that you are wrong in stating that parents need to monitor internet usage, i'm laughing to myself at how easy you make it sound. Apparently if we parents all abided by johnny's 3 easy steps to parenting the world would be rid of senseless shootings, short dresses etc. All i'm saying is I think sj is very well qualified to offer advise on parenting, and while I will always respect you're opinion on many topics, when you speak out about raising kids, I will always think to myself, wait til the poor bastid has to practice what he preaches. did you design that smiley? please stop using it if you did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 33 dead and we're talking about freakin' parenting in this thread. How many times has this happened again? It does not happen often. Actually,johnny has a point..I remember being in Boston a couple years back and they were plucking dead foreign MIT students out of the Charles River because they were under extreme pressure to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 33 dead and we're talking about freakin' parenting in this thread. How many times has this happened again? It does not happen often. And what the hell does Little League Baseball coaching have to do with any of this? In Little League, its the parents and the coaches who take things WAY, WAY too seriously and not the kids. The kids get sick of it and sometimes screw up just to piss off the coach and or parents. I remember doing it, its a way to say F-U right back, especially when the rest of your team has your back because they have the same crap being spewed at them. Oh, and, if all the parents here or non-parents arguing or whatever here believe its the internet, think again. You wanna pay attention to something? Pay attention to the crowd of kids your kids hang out with. Meet them first or something, make your own evaulation on them and try to keep track on the things they do, say, heck, even the smells of them when they come in at night. Check out your kid or kids' friends, not the damn internet, unless your kid doesn't have many or no friends. great post 124 & I promise to climb off my high parenting horse no matter what ma man johnny comes back at me with. As an Attorney he will require the last word in this debate, & i will stand down (huge smilie) credit to jgb, he is fun to debate any topic with cause he smart enough to know it's not personal & we can learn from eachother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Actually,johnny has a point..I remember being in Boston a couple years back and they were plucking dead foreign MIT students out of the Charles River because they were under extreme pressure to do well. They put that pressure on themselves, you can always tell your parents to F-off, you have the power to do so and if you do not use it, it is your problem. I'm a college student currently and still young at 18, soon to be 19 so this topic hits home to me and my friends. The kids put the pressure on themselves, sure some parents might too but the kid should always know the power of revolt / rebell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Actually,johnny has a point..I remember being in Boston a couple years back and they were plucking dead foreign MIT students out of the Charles River because they were under extreme pressure to do well. it's just extremely condescending to invalidate a viewpoint by saying "no kids, no opinion." what's he so afraid of and why everytime i mention parenthood does he feel it's his mission to refute? seems like he's trying to convince himself because he sure as **** isn't getting anywhere with me by his patronizing tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 They put that pressure on themselves, you can always tell your parents to F-off, you have the power to do so and if you do not use it, it is your problem. I'm a college student currently and still young at 18, soon to be 19 so this topic hits home to me and my friends. The kids put the pressure on themselves, sure some parents might too but the kid should always know the power of revolt / rebell. You're an American,how do you know what foreign kids think,or how much pressure their under from back home?you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 33 dead and we're talking about freakin' parenting in this thread. How many times has this happened again? It does not happen often. And what the hell does Little League Baseball coaching have to do with any of this? In Little League, its the parents and the coaches who take things WAY, WAY too seriously and not the kids. The kids get sick of it and sometimes screw up just to piss off the coach and or parents. I remember doing it, its a way to say F-U right back, especially when the rest of your team has your back because they have the same crap being spewed at them. Oh, and, if all the parents here or non-parents arguing or whatever here believe its the internet, think again. You wanna pay attention to something? Pay attention to the crowd of kids your kids hang out with. Meet them first or something, make your own evaulation on them and try to keep track on the things they do, say, heck, even the smells of them when they come in at night. Check out your kid or kids' friends, not the damn internet, unless your kid doesn't have many or no friends. 124 -- That is a really good post. We got detoured on the youth sports thing because of that generalized statement about kids going this because they were coddled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 it's just extremely condescending to invalidate a viewpoint by saying "no kids, no opinion." what's he so afraid of and why everytime i mention parenthood does he feel it's his mission to refute? seems like he's trying to convince himself because he sure as **** isn't getting anywhere with me by his patronizing tactics. Johnny you do post the "The kids are coddled" thing a lot. But I am glad you are admitting it isn't accurate. Now we can move on and talk about more important things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You're an American,how do you know what foreign kids think,or how much pressure their under from back home?you don't. Okay, true, but I still think they put the pressure on themselves because they want to come to America to succeed, not to fail like they almost certainly would do or at least have a better chance of doing in their native countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Johnny you do post the "The kids are coddled" thing a lot. But I am glad you are admitting it isn't accurate. Now we can move on and talk about more important things. agreed-- so why do you give your kids a trophy for last place, again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 it's just extremely condescending to invalidate a viewpoint by saying "no kids, no opinion." what's he so afraid of and why everytime i mention parenthood does he feel it's his mission to refute? seems like he's trying to convince himself because he sure as **** isn't getting anywhere with me by his patronizing tactics. I'll assume he is me here johnny. perhaps you're right. I don't mean to come off as patronizing and can see how you think I come off as condescending jerk. seriously, you're prolly right & I am being an ass about how non parents have no god given rights to speak about parenting. I apologize to you for coming off that way & will do my utmost in the future to avoid sounding like an ass on any parenting topic. much respect to you johnny & I hope a day comes when we can get together & drink a cold one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Okay, true, but I still think they put the pressure on themselves because they want to come to America to succeed, not to fail like they almost certainly would do or at least have a better chance of doing in their native countries. Good point,but I think it's a combination of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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