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Devil Rays send Yankees into last place

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The reason the pen is pitching badly is because TORRE pulls every starter earlier than he should and that puts tremendous pressure on the bullpen and it's all on torre.

Wang was on a pitch count last night, that is why they pulled him. When you ste a pitch count, normally you follow it.

Why would it be the pen's fault that Torre decides to go to them. They share no blame in not getting teh job done.

They are there for a reason.

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the difference between 81 and 86 pitches is nothing. bringing in vizcaino who is overworked and terrible to get a DP is beyond stupid.

So, you know with absolute certainty that Wang was not tired, and that 5 pitches would be all that was needed to finsih teh next batter, if he even got him out?

There are a lot of assumptions there that you can not jump to.

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Again you have no argument. I guess Torre only gets credit for what happened 11 years ago but doesn't have to take any hits for his recent history of horrible bullpen management... And you can throw Cashman's awful record of signing bullpen pitchers in with that too.

Mike, you can't PROVE that a bullpen has been mismanaged or not, all you can do is speculate,

It is entirely within teh realm of possibility that if Torre had a direct connection to you, and asked your opinion on every move, that those moves could have backfired too.

Again, as AFJ told you, it is impossible to prove a subjective opinion. I know you hate to hear that.

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When you see pitchers pitching well, have a clear spike in innings and right after that start to preform much worse and that happens over and over again on the same team anyone will any common sense can see a pattern.

I really can't fathom what you were trying to communicate there. i don't think I want to, as it seemed to portend your "higher than thou" persona again.

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You can't understand what i wrote? It's happened A LOT of times that pitchers have come to the yankees or been yankees originally and have in a year or a part of a season, been pushed WAY beyond their previous innings figures which causes their performance level to decrease drastically over time. This happens because if a pitcher (usually a middle RP) starts pitching well, Torre overuses them. This has happened many times with many different pitchers. Good performance, than an innings spike than a big decline in performance.

Understand that? It's just common sense.

Maybe its not your bullpen, maybe your starting pitching can't take them deep enough.

2 sides to very coin.

Don't lay everything out to be black and white, just because it is your opinion.

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It doesn't matter what the starters do.

Yeah, how the starters do has no consequence on how worked the bullpen is worked.

OK. Care to re-think that?

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