madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Mike, you can't PROVE that a bullpen has been mismanaged or not, all you can do is speculate, It is entirely within teh realm of possibility that if Torre had a direct connection to you, and asked your opinion on every move, that those moves could have backfired too. Again, as AFJ told you, it is impossible to prove a subjective opinion. I know you hate to hear that. When you see pitchers pitching well, have a clear spike in innings and right after that start to preform much worse and that happens over and over again on the same team anyone will any common sense can see a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 When you see pitchers pitching well, have a clear spike in innings and right after that start to preform much worse and that happens over and over again on the same team anyone will any common sense can see a pattern. I really can't fathom what you were trying to communicate there. i don't think I want to, as it seemed to portend your "higher than thou" persona again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I really can't fathom what you were trying to communicate there. i don't think I want to, as it seemed to portend your "higher than thou" persona again.You can't understand what i wrote? It's happened A LOT of times that pitchers have come to the yankees or been yankees originally and have in a year or a part of a season, been pushed WAY beyond their previous innings figures which causes their performance level to decrease drastically over time. This happens because if a pitcher (usually a middle RP) starts pitching well at which time Torre starts overusing them. This has happened many times with many different pitchers. Good performance, than an innings spike than a big decline in performance. Understand that? It's just common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 You can't understand what i wrote? It's happened A LOT of times that pitchers have come to the yankees or been yankees originally and have in a year or a part of a season, been pushed WAY beyond their previous innings figures which causes their performance level to decrease drastically over time. This happens because if a pitcher (usually a middle RP) starts pitching well, Torre overuses them. This has happened many times with many different pitchers. Good performance, than an innings spike than a big decline in performance. Understand that? It's just common sense. Maybe its not your bullpen, maybe your starting pitching can't take them deep enough. 2 sides to very coin. Don't lay everything out to be black and white, just because it is your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 not that simple. the pitchers are not being used in the right situations. There is no right situation right now. The bullpen is not getting ANYBODY out. You can juggle and move guys around the pen all you want the bottom line is they all are pitching horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Maybe its not your bullpen, maybe your starting pitching can't take them deep enough. 2 sides to very coin. Don't lay everything out to be black and white, just because it is your opinion. It doesn't matter what the starters do. it's up to the manager to make sure that the bullpen doesn't get overworked to the point that they lose their effectiveness and torre does the opposite. This has happened year after year after year on teams with good and bad starting pitching alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 There is no right situation right now. The bullpen is not getting ANYBODY out. You can juggle and move guys around the pen all you want the bottom line is they all are pitching horribly. Not true. There are certain guys who are pitching better than others or are better suited to different situations and torre has no concept of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 It doesn't matter what the starters do. Yeah, how the starters do has no consequence on how worked the bullpen is worked. OK. Care to re-think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 anyone will any common sense can see a pattern. Mikes perfect manager: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Yeah, how the starters do has no consequence on how worked the bullpen is worked. OK. Care to re-think that? No matter what the score of the games are or how the starters pitch it's up to the MANAGER to use the bullpen responsibility and not burn pitchers out. So according to you the many pitchers who have this pattern in many different years are ALL because of bad starting pitching? Thats a huge stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 No matter what the score of the games are or how the starters pitch it's up to the MANAGER to use the bullpen responsibility and not burn pitchers out. So according to you the many pitchers who have this pattern in many different years are ALL because of bad starting pitching? Thats a huge stretch. Mike they are are 2 weeks into the season. The bullpen is hardly worn out. The problem is is that other than Henn they are walking the balllpark and giving up the big hit. You can shuffle the bullpen all you want the results are going to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Mike they are are 2 weeks into the season. The bullpen is hardly worn out. The problem is is that other than Henn they are walking the balllpark and giving up the big hit. You can shuffle the bullpen all you want the results are going to be the same. Through 19 games torre has made more bullpen moves than any manager in baseball history. They have been CLEARLY overworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Its all Ron Guidry's fault. FIRE RON AND BRING BACK MEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 it's really all MY fault-I told my wife if I watch they're gonna hit a grand slammer-they did we laughed and I changed the channel-it amazes me how watching the Yankees doesn't affect me like it used to-I used to CRY watching them when I was a kid...baseball now just doesn't do it for me like it used to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 it's really all MY fault-I told my wife if I watch they're gonna hit a grand slammer-they did we laughed and I changed the channel-it amazes me how watching the Yankees doesn't affect me like it used to-I used to CRY watching them when I was a kid...baseball now just doesn't do it for me like it used to Thats because you figured out that baseball was a business and not a kids game... Other sports dont lead you to believe they are only there to entertain you like baseball does. Oh, and you discovered And maybe the steroids thing too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Yankees Elimination Number: 140 and counting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbok Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 i wish the yankees luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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