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Who was the worst player or coach that ever played/worked as a Jet/titan?


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O I no its gots to be Blair Tomas cause, he couldt hold ontothe ball all the tim is wut I think. Or it cold be jonny mitcell, tho.

No way Johnny Mitchell was one of the worst players. He was a head case, but actually very productive.

Worst player for me was Johnny Lam Jones and a close second to Roger Vick. Worst coach by a mile was Kotite. Biggest fraud would be Herm.

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Vance Joseph.

that's a good choice and he is linked w/ Kotite as Rich converted him to CB and then had him on Tim Brown on that Sun Night in 1995 which as maybe the most embarrassing game in th history of the Jets and that says alot since we havealot of those games.

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Hmm I'm going with Herm daddy cause I hate his Guts but Im sure thier has been worse what, do you think?

Players are hard but FO and coahces are easy.

1. Kotite- Set a new standard in lowering the bar for the franchise

2. Lou Holtz- His one year was a collasal emabarasssment

3. Harry Wismer- Orignal owner of Titans...bankrupted the franchise.

4. Leon Hess- No offense folks but until he hired Tuna and everyoine thought he was agreat guy he was one of the worst owners in sports.

5. Mike Hickey- This is the man who oversaw some of our worst drafts in fanchise history in the 80s.

6. Bill Bellichick- Showed his true colors in 1997 when he went along wiht the Tuna farse and then showed them again wheh he stole 1 mil from a dying owener and then blletd anyway.

7. Joe Walton- Wit the talent he had, should have made the playoffs more then he did. The 86 collapse was his lowest moment.

8. Herm- We wasted 5 years of terrific talent while that charlatan convinced the media (and most fans) that mediocrity was good enough.

9. Weeb Ewbank- Built the winner in the 60's...then destoryed it in the 70s.

10. Ken Rose- ST coach under Kotite...his units were SO bad yet he somehow kept his job.

Player wise-

1T. Mike Taylor, Ron Farout, Mike Haight, Rioger Vick- #1 picks that provided ZIPPO

2T. Steve Tannen, Carl Barzaluaskus, Lam Jones, Russell carter, Dave Cadigan, Blair Thiomas, Johny Mitchell, Kyle Brady- #1 picks that provided just about ZIPPO!

3. Browning Nagle- Aftyer great first game, iggest let down of any "QB of the future" we ever had.

4. Vance Jospeph- The defensive symbol of the Kotite era.

5. Rich Sowells- CB from the 70s was a media whipping boy for chronic jet secondary problems.

6. Al Woodall- When ever he was playing it meant Namath wasnt.

7. Bubby Brister- The offensive symbol of the Kotite era.

8. Roger Finnie- Was suppossed to be our answer at RT...he wasnt. Almst got Namath killed.

9. Robert Woods- See Rger Finnie...only at LT.

10. Glenn Dennison- Miami TE Cuaght 2 HUGE tds in the 83 Orange Bowl, we took him in rd 2 in 84, never saw 85.

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i hate herm as much as the next guy but he was nowhere near our bottom 10; not in a franchise that has endured what the jets have over the decades. he could make the chief's bottom 10 though if he's around long enough.

His championing of medicocrity, his Club Ed mentality, and his waste of talent that was good enough to win a SB with puts him in the top 10 on the FO list. Not at the top of the list...but on it. I mena Joe Walton made the playoffs 2 of his first 4 years here and no one questions his ineptitude. Same wiht herm. He was all BS and lead evryone to beklieve that things like starting a season 5-0 or making the playoffs were some type of tremendous accomplishemtn. Its not like he took over after walton where we hadnt sniffed the playoffs in 5 years and need a rebuild. No, he took over after Tuna had bult the team into a consistent playoff contender...a team that was .500 or better and in the playoff hunt for the prior 4 years AND had just inherited 4 #1 picks in the 2000 draft. And what did he do? he made the playoffs, bakcing in twice...yippie. Did he get apst rd 2? Nope. Did we get blown out twice by oak? Yup. Did his pu$$y mentality help cost us the Pitt game? Yup. When tings didnt break EXACTKY his way did we even sniff the playoffs? Nope. And then when he knew the going was going to get tough as his Parcells foundation began to age...he lied and he bolted.

For that he makes the top 10.

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Players are hard but FO and coahces are easy.

1. Kotite- Set a new standard in lowering the bar for the franchise

2. Lou Holtz- His one year was a collasal emabarasssment

3. Harry Wismer- Orignal owner of Titans...bankrupted the franchise.

4. Leon Hess- No offense folks but until he hired Tuna and everyoine thought he was agreat guy he was one of the worst owners in sports.

5. Mike Hickey- This is the man who oversaw some of our worst drafts in fanchise history in the 80s.

6. Bill Bellichick- Showed his true colors in 1997 when he went along wiht the Tuna farse and then showed them again wheh he stole 1 mil from a dying owener and then blletd anyway.

7. Joe Walton- Wit the talent he had, should have made the playoffs more then he did. The 86 collapse was his lowest moment.

8. Herm- We wasted 5 years of terrific talent while that charlatan convinced the media (and most fans) that mediocrity was good enough.

9. Weeb Ewbank- Built the winner in the 60's...then destoryed it in the 70s.

10. Ken Rose- ST coach under Kotite...his units were SO bad yet he somehow kept his job.

Player wise-

1T. Mike Taylor, Ron Farout, Mike Haight, Rioger Vick- #1 picks that provided ZIPPO

2T. Steve Tannen, Carl Barzaluaskus, Lam Jones, Russell carter, Dave Cadigan, Blair Thiomas, Johny Mitchell, Kyle Brady- #1 picks that provided just about ZIPPO!

3. Browning Nagle- Aftyer great first game, iggest let down of any "QB of the future" we ever had.

4. Vance Jospeph- The defensive symbol of the Kotite era.

5. Rich Sowells- CB from the 70s was a media whipping boy for chronic jet secondary problems.

6. Al Woodall- When ever he was playing it meant Namath wasnt.

7. Bubby Brister- The offensive symbol of the Kotite era.

8. Roger Finnie- Was suppossed to be our answer at RT...he wasnt. Almst got Namath killed.

9. Robert Woods- See Rger Finnie...only at LT.

10. Glenn Dennison- Miami TE Cuaght 2 HUGE tds in the 83 Orange Bowl, we took him in rd 2 in 84, never saw 85.

If you are going to name owners/front office types than the list has to contain the worst employee in Jet history. He was a freakin idiot.

Steve Gutman.

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If you are going to name owners/front office types than the list has to contain the worst employee in Jet history. He was a freakin idiot.

Steve Gutman.

Ooooh...good one. But Gutman was realyl just an accountant who happened to be Hess' front man. he realyl didnt have anyhting to do wiht the team or its personell.

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His championing of medicocrity, his Club Ed mentality, and his waste of talent that was good enough to win a SB with puts him in the top 10 on the FO list. Not at the top of the list...but on it. I mena Joe Walton made the playoffs 2 of his first 4 years here and no one questions his ineptitude. Same wiht herm. He was all BS and lead evryone to beklieve that things like starting a season 5-0 or making the playoffs were some type of tremendous accomplishemtn. Its not like he took over after walton where we hadnt sniffed the playoffs in 5 years and need a rebuild. No, he took over after Tuna had bult the team into a consistent playoff contender...a team that was .500 or better and in the playoff hunt for the prior 4 years AND had just inherited 4 #1 picks in the 2000 draft. And what did he do? he made the playoffs, bakcing in twice...yippie. Did he get apst rd 2? Nope. Did we get blown out twice by oak? Yup. Did his pu$$y mentality help cost us the Pitt game? Yup. When tings didnt break EXACTKY his way did we even sniff the playoffs? Nope. And then when he knew the going was going to get tough as his Parcells foundation began to age...he lied and he bolted.

For that he makes the top 10.

Just ask yourself this one question- if the Jets had Championship caliber talent do you really think parcells would have stepped down when he wanted another Championship more than anything? Do you really think Belichick would have stepped down if he thought we had Championship talent knowing he had one more chance to be successful? Do you really think Groh would have quit if we had Championship talent when it took hi 20+ years to finally get a HC job? AND do you think parcells would ahve passed on e job again after the '00 season if he thought we had Championship caliber talent?

We had GOOD talent, w/ a few breaks we could have gone far and we did go pretty far but to act like we had a SB team and Herm ruined it is crazy.

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Players are hard but FO and coahces are easy.

1T. Mike Taylor, Ron Farout, Mike Haight, Rioger Vick- #1 picks that provided ZIPPO

2T. Steve Tannen, Carl Barzaluaskus, Lam Jones, Russell carter, Dave Cadigan, Blair Thiomas, Johny Mitchell, Kyle Brady- #1 picks that provided just about ZIPPO!

3. Browning Nagle- Aftyer great first game, iggest let down of any "QB of the future" we ever had.

10. Glenn Dennison- Miami TE Cuaght 2 HUGE tds in the 83 Orange Bowl, we took him in rd 2 in 84, never saw 85.

For those of you who are saying Johnny Mitchell is one of the worst ever - please explain. He was a head case, but production wise his stats were very good. In fact, you'd have to go back to Mickey Shuler to find comparable numbers. With all of the bad players the Jets have had over the years, this guy doesn't crack the top 10.

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Just ask yourself this one question- if the Jets had Championship caliber talent do you really think parcells would have stepped down when he wanted another Championship more than anything? Do you really think Belichick would have stepped down if he thought we had Championship talent knowing he had one more chance to be successful? Do you really think Groh would have quit if we had Championship talent when it took hi 20+ years to finally get a HC job? AND do you think parcells would ahve passed on e job again after the '00 season if he thought we had Championship caliber talent?

We had GOOD talent, w/ a few breaks we could have gone far and we did go pretty far but to act like we had a SB team and Herm ruined it is crazy.

Parcells stepped down because he had had enough and alsio didnt want Belli going to NE and retring was the best way to insure hed have to stay here. BB left because his ego wouldnt let him work under Parcells anymore (ene though heknkew that was the deal from day 1) and NE was offering him an unreal deal wiht total control. Groh quit because he had a once in a lifetime chance to take his dream job at his alma mater and he knew that parcells wasnt ging to be aorund much longer and his job security would have been tenuous at best. Parcells didnt take the job after 2000 because his relatinship was wiht Hess and he didnt think much Woody Johnson and didnt want to coach anymore...at least then.

The team Herm inherited had two starting QBs, a 1500 yard HB, a backup HB wiht starter skill, Lav Coles, Chrebet in his prime, Sanatan Moss, an OL with fabini in his prime, Mawae in his prime, Randy Thomas, Ryan Young and KMac. he had a D wiht Jphn Abraham, Sean Ellis, Ferguson, Lewis, JOnes, Glenn, Coleman, Green, Farrior (later replaced by Cowart, Abraham, and Robinson). Had those teams been properly coached, prepared and motivated, yes, they could have won a SB or at the very least gone further then rd 2 of the playoffs. The freakin Pats who had done nohting prior to 2001 won SBs, the Panthers got there, the Bucs won...in this age of parity and wiht the talent he was handed, all herm did was tread water for 5 years and the team never took the next step in large part due to his failures as a HC. We had much better then simply "good" talent...in fact we had more then several of the teams that went further then we did.

Parcells walked away from a deending champion wiht the Giants. he walked away from a NE team that had just lost a SB. You telling me his leaving the jets is a good barometer for the teams taslent level???

Look you can defend Hermy all you like but you have one arguement and one arguement alone: That he took an underachieving team (debatealel claim btw) that hadnt made the playoffs in 3 years to the playoff 3 of the next 5. Thats it...thats all you've got. And the counetr arghuement to that is simple: he had the talent at his disposal to take the

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For those of you who are saying Johnny Mitchell is one of the worst ever - please explain. He was a head case, but production wise his stats were very good. In fact, you'd have to go back to Mickey Shuler to find comparable numbers. With all of the bad players the Jets have had over the years, this guy doesn't crack the top 10.

He had a decent rookie year, a very nice 1993, then fell off the face of the earth and was off the team by 1995. Sorry...the guy had one solid year. Im not sure hes among the worst players in theteams history, but as a #1 opick, he was among the most diappointing.

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Parcells stepped down because he had had enough and alsio didnt want Belli going to NE and retring was the best way to insure hed have to stay here. BB left because his ego wouldnt let him work under Parcells anymore (ene though heknkew that was the deal from day 1) and NE was offering him an unreal deal wiht total control. Groh quit because he had a once in a lifetime chance to take his dream job at his alma mater and he knew that parcells wasnt ging to be aorund much longer and his job security would have been tenuous at best. Parcells didnt take the job after 2000 because he didnt trust Woody Johnson.

The team Herm inherited had two starting QBs, a 1500 yard HB, a backup HB wiht starter skill, Lav Coles, Chrebet in his prime, Sanatan Moss, an OL with fabini in his prime, Mawae in his prime, Randy Thomas, Ryan Young and KMac. he had a D wiht Jphn Abraham, Sean Ellis, Ferguson, Lewis, JOnes, Glenn, Coleman, Green, Farrior (later replaced by Cowart, Abraham, and Robinson). Had those teams been properly coached, prepared and motivated, yes, they could have won a SB or at the very least gone further then rd 2 of the playoffs. The freakin Pats who had done nohting prior to 2001 won SBs, the Panthers got there, the Bucs won...in this age of parity and wiht the talent he was handed, all herm did was tread water for 5 years and the team never took the next step in large part due to his failures as a HC. We had much better then simply "good" talent...in fact we had more then several of the teams that went further then we did.

Parcells walked away from a deending champion wiht the Giants. he walked away from a NE team that had just lost a SB. You telling me his leaving the jets is a good barometer for the teams taslent level???

Look you can defend Hermy all you like but you have one arguement and one arguement alone: That he took an underachieving team (debatealel claim btw) that hadnt made the playoffs in 3 years to the playoff 3 of the next 5. Thats it...thats all you've got. And the counetr arghuement to that is simple: he had the talent at his disposal to take the

Parcells stepped down b/c he had enough yet a year after he was gone he nearly took the TB job- it was all about getting to another SB and he didn't feel he could win one w/ the talent on the Jets roster.

You win w/ talent, BB had one more chance and if he failed he as gone. he chose to go to a team clearly on the decline over staying put so that should tell you something.

If groh had SB talent and won his job never would have been in jeopardy, he wasn't confident he could win here.

Parcells didn't take the job b/c he didn't rust Woody? but he trusted Jerry Jones?

Herm definitely inherited some talent but the starting QB was coming off a 25 INT season and h had to develop Chad, Chrebet ws past his prime, Coles was coming off a decent rookie year, Bradway drafted Moss and he was hurt 95% of his rookie year, Fabini and mawae were beginning to show some age, lewis and Jones were getting old, we had cap problems. There's no doubt we had some talent but we didnt' have SB talent especially when our #1 WR in 2000 was Chrebet and our QB threw 25 INTs.

The pats still had alot of players left over from their SB year in '96 and they improved the OL and added the final piece w/ an immoral QB. Their situation was not close to ours.

Parcells walked away from a defending Champion- yes a Champion! he accomplished his goal there and he knew the Giants were onthe decline and he'd have to rebuild so he quit. He walked away from the Pats b/c he hated Kraft and knew he'd have a great opportunity here in NY- he also realized Drew was not a Championship QB. If he thought the Jets were on the verge he never would have left.

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Just ask yourself this one question- if the Jets had Championship caliber talent do you really think parcells would have stepped down when he wanted another Championship more than anything? Do you really think Belichick would have stepped down if he thought we had Championship talent knowing he had one more chance to be successful? Do you really think Groh would have quit if we had Championship talent when it took hi 20+ years to finally get a HC job? AND do you think parcells would ahve passed on e job again after the '00 season if he thought we had Championship caliber talent?

We had GOOD talent, w/ a few breaks we could have gone far and we did go pretty far but to act like we had a SB team and Herm ruined it is crazy.

parcells stepped down for the same reason dean stepped down-- to give a loyal assistant a crack with a decent squad. problem is, parcells' ego was bigger than dean-o's and he couldn't totally let go.

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His championing of medicocrity, his Club Ed mentality, and his waste of talent that was good enough to win a SB with puts him in the top 10 on the FO list. Not at the top of the list...but on it. I mena Joe Walton made the playoffs 2 of his first 4 years here and no one questions his ineptitude. Same wiht herm. He was all BS and lead evryone to beklieve that things like starting a season 5-0 or making the playoffs were some type of tremendous accomplishemtn. Its not like he took over after walton where we hadnt sniffed the playoffs in 5 years and need a rebuild. No, he took over after Tuna had bult the team into a consistent playoff contender...a team that was .500 or better and in the playoff hunt for the prior 4 years AND had just inherited 4 #1 picks in the 2000 draft. And what did he do? he made the playoffs, bakcing in twice...yippie. Did he get apst rd 2? Nope. Did we get blown out twice by oak? Yup. Did his pu$$y mentality help cost us the Pitt game? Yup. When tings didnt break EXACTKY his way did we even sniff the playoffs? Nope. And then when he knew the going was going to get tough as his Parcells foundation began to age...he lied and he bolted.

For that he makes the top 10.

that's pretty compelling.

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Parcells stepped down b/c he had enough yet a year after he was gone he nearly took the TB job- it was all about getting to another SB and he didn't feel he could win one w/ the talent on the Jets roster.

You win w/ talent, BB had one more chance and if he failed he as gone. he chose to go to a team clearly on the decline over staying put so that should tell you something.

If groh had SB talent and won his job never would have been in jeopardy, he wasn't confident he could win here.

Parcells didn't take the job b/c he didn't rust Woody? but he trusted Jerry Jones?

Herm definitely inherited some talent but the starting QB was coming off a 25 INT season and h had to develop Chad, Chrebet ws past his prime, Coles was coming off a decent rookie year, Bradway drafted Moss and he was hurt 95% of his rookie year, Fabini and mawae were beginning to show some age, lewis and Jones were getting old, we had cap problems. There's no doubt we had some talent but we didnt' have SB talent especially when our #1 WR in 2000 was Chrebet and our QB threw 25 INTs.

The pats still had alot of players left over from their SB year in '96 and they improved the OL and added the final piece w/ an immoral QB. Their situation was not close to ours.

Parcells walked away from a defending Champion- yes a Champion! he accomplished his goal there and he knew the Giants were onthe decline and he'd have to rebuild so he quit. He walked away from the Pats b/c he hated Kraft and knew he'd have a great opportunity here in NY- he also realized Drew was not a Championship QB. If he thought the Jets were on the verge he never would have left.

Look you have your interpretaion of events and I have mine but if a SB is such a harbinger of job security, why was Bill Callhan fired so quickly after. Why was martz canned?

And you are simply wrong on some of your answers.

Chrebet was past his prime in 2001? 6 years in? mawae was bearly 30. Fabini was 28 and pre his injury problems. The bottom line is Herm was handed a team with playoff talent that was .500 or better for the 4 prior years just missing the playoffs twice (97 and 2000) and making an AFC title game (1998), 4 #1s and Coles going into their 2nd seasons, and he was then handed more talent in Moss, Jordan, and KMac. Maing the playoff wiht that handed to you is no great accomishment...I'm sorry, he should have done better and abetter coach would have..

BB left a team on the "decline" so he could go to NE...anohter team on the decline? A team whose wi total went down each year under carroll. A team who was relying on Bledsoe? Thye had no idea what thye had in Brady yet. Please, BB went to the Pats because he was going to have full control, a **** load of cash and be out from under Parcells. menahwile the Jets had ost of the 1998 nucleus still on the team.

Groh? The guy was a first time HC, hired by a guy who ws leaving shortly. The guys dream job was UVA and his Jet players hated him...he knew his days were nubered especially if Parcels left.

Tuna never trusted jerry Jones but he wanted to get back into coaching. he didnt thnk much of Woody and his relationship was with Hess whihc is why he had no interest in coming back to the jets.

Herm underachieved wiht what he was given...a better coach would have taken those teams much further.

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He had a decent rookie year, a very nice 1993, then fell off the face of the earth and was off the team by 1995. Sorry...the guy had one solid year. Im not sure hes among the worst players in theteams history, but as a #1 opick, he was among the most diappointing.

Compared to Ron Faurot Johnny Mitchell was Jerry ****ing Rice. You also might want to consider that 1st round picks Becht and Brady never had a season as productive as Mitchell's 12 games in '95 during their time as Jets. It also would have been a career year for Baker. The correct answer to the question is Kotite. Without a doubt. There is plenty of competition, but it's all for second place.

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Compared to Ron Faurot Johnny Mitchell was Jerry ****ing Rice. You also might want to consider that 1st round picks Becht and Brady never had a season as productive as Mitchell's 12 games in '95 during their time as Jets. It also would have been a career year for Baker. The correct answer to the question is Kotite. Without a doubt. There is plenty of competition, but it's all for second place.

Thats why Mitchell tied for 2nd and not in the category woth farout. Mitchell is just anhterin a long line of 1st round disappintments we had...thus hes in that group wiht the others, despite his one good season. And at least becht and Brady blocked well. Mitchell was a head case.

But yes...the answer is Kotite.

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He had a decent rookie year, a very nice 1993, then fell off the face of the earth and was off the team by 1995. Sorry...the guy had one solid year. Im not sure hes among the worst players in theteams history, but as a #1 opick, he was among the most diappointing.

Actually his best year was 1994 and had 3 good years and decent rookie year. Here's his stats:

Year TM | G | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+-------------------------+

| 1992 nyj | 11 | 16 210 13.1 1 |

| 1993 nyj | 14 | 39 630 16.2 6 |

| 1994 nyj | 16 | 58 749 12.9 4 |

| 1995 nyj | 12 | 45 497 11.0 5 |

I forgot to check where he was drafted, but I believe it was between 20-25. Not the greatest stats for a 1st rounder but not terrible either, especially since he was a middle to late 1st. I would consider him a mild disappointment at the most. As you said he's not among the worst players in history, but I wouldn't consider him among the most disappointing either. I think most people around here remember his bizarre behavior, and sudden departure rather than his production. I would put him amongst the biggest head cases in Jets history, but that's it.

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no way in hell herm is the worst coach in jets history, believe me, 5 years from now we all can realistically reflect on how herm compares to other jet coaches. mediocre coach, yes. one of the worst coaches ever, no. do i really have to go through the 70s-90s until parcells came. evey single one of those coaches were worse than herm. herm made a lot of bad decisions, but he did make sound decisions also. oh, and believe me, after 97, the jets have never been super bowl caliber. before herm sent doug brien out, eric barton almost ended the playoffs in the wildcard. we all know that herm was a piece of musk ox ****(yes musk ox crap can describe herm), but a dose of reality needs to be administered and herm cannot be the only reason why the jets have not made it past divisional round since 97.

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no way in hell herm is the worst coach in jets history, believe me, 5 years from now we all can realistically reflect on how herm compares to other jet coaches. mediocre coach, yes. one of the worst coaches ever, no. do i really have to go through the 70s-90s until parcells came. evey single one of those coaches were worse than herm. herm made a lot of bad decisions, but he did make sound decisions also. oh, and believe me, after 97, the jets have never been super bowl caliber. before herm sent doug brien out, eric barton almost ended the playoffs in the wildcard. we all know that herm was a piece of musk ox ****(yes musk ox crap can describe herm), but a dose of reality needs to be administered and herm cannot be the only reason why the jets have not made it past divisional round since 97.

Who said he was? I know I didnt. Kotite, Holtz, Coslet, and Walton were all probbaly worse. But if you want to go through the 70s-90s, be my guest. Walt Micheals built the team from scrartch in 1977 without the benfit of FA and had them in the playoffs in 1981 and 1 step from the SB in 1982. Walton, much like hermy, made the playoffs in 2 of hs first 4 years as HC. Coslet even had the team on the right track for a while after inhertiing a didaster after 1989.

As to our talent level, Herm inhertied a team that had a terriifc OL, a 1500 yard RB, two starting claibar QBs, Solid WRs, bookend DEs in Ellis and JA, experienced and Talneted LBs and a secondary with Aaron Glenn, green, Mickens and Coleman in it. In the era of parity and FA, that is easily enough to make a decent SB run with. herm's coaching is what held that team back. His lack of preparedness, his Club Ed mnetality, his championing of mediocrity, his game day follies, etc etc etc. A bteter HC has that team in at least one AFC title game over that time...end of story.

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