Flops & Surprises

[PatsFanTX]

Man, the off season really sucks.

Anyway, every year there are teams out there that flop (based on pre-season predictions) and surprise.

Last year the Phins went from 10-6 to 4-12. And the Steelers went from 6-10 to 15-1.

Who will those teams be this year?

Here's my prediction:

Flops

San Deigo 5-11

Green Bay 6-10

Surprises

Arizona 11-5

Detroit 10-6

What do you folks think?

[faba]

Man, the off season really sucks.

Anyway, every year there are teams out there that flop (based on pre-season predictions) and surprise.

Last year the Phins went from 10-6 to 4-12. And the Steelers went from 6-10 to 15-1.

Who will those teams be this year?

Here's my prediction:

Flops

San Deigo 5-11

Green Bay 6-10

Surprises

Arizona 11-5

Detroit 10-6

What do you folks think?

I agree with your prediction of San Diego not being as good this year -say 9 and 7

Arizona and Detroit- so much depends on that QB position on each team- can they get some decent play from their QB's

[LockeJET]

FLOPS---Pats(9-7), Pitt(9-7)

Suprises--- Cincy(10-6), Jags(11-5)

[shawn306]

AFC

Surprise: Bengals. This team is ready to take off. Lewis is a good coach, Palmer to Chad Johnson, I like them not only to suprise but be a player in the post season.

Flop: San Diego: Brese and Rivers are a QB controversy waiting to happen and past history has shown that after a big S.D. year they tend to drop back.

NFC:

Surprise: Lions. I said the same thing last year and look what happened. Alot of the Lions fortunes will depend on Joey Harrington. The guy could not ask for more weapons than what he has right now.

Flop: Philadelphia: Alot of this though will depend on the T.O. situation. If this is not resolved it could cause major problems for the birds.

[Maxman]

If we are going on a percentage basis I have to pick the Steelers and the Pats. Duplicating records like that is never a given.

But my real flops would be the Falcons and the Colts. I pick them because one key injury for either team and they are done.

Surprises...not really much of a reach here but damn those Buffalo Bills finished strong.

[PatsFanTX]

NFC:

Surprise: Lions. Alot of the Lions fortunes will depend on Joey Harrington. The guy could not ask for more weapons than what he has right now.

Exactly.

Harrington needs to either poop or get off the pot.

The guy has all the physical tools in the world and still seems to struggle week in and week out.

Another poor to mediocre season and people will start to attach the word BUST (and rightly so) next to his name.

[LionelRichie]

i disagree with san diego, if brees can do anything they should win 10.

flops - falcons (have to play the AFCe), pats

surprises - bucs, bears, ravens

[Green DNA]

Flops - Pats, Steelers (if you consider 10-6 a flop)

Surprises - Lions

[Jetsfan80]

The Arizona Cardinals and Chicago Bears will win their respective divisions. Meanwhile, the Denver Broncos, Green Bay Packers, and of course, the New England Patriots, will be utter flops.

[stormshadow19]

Exactly.

Harrington needs to either poop or get off the pot.

The guy has all the physical tools in the world and still seems to struggle week in and week out.

Another poor to mediocre season and people will start to attach the word BUST (and rightly so) next to his name.

Start to? Dude, they were calling him a bust for not being Peyton Manning after the first seven games of his rookie season.

[PatsFanTX]

Start to? Dude, they were calling him a bust for not being Peyton Manning after the first seven games of his rookie season.

That's ridiculous, especially for a QB on a very poor team.

All Harrigton has to do is show David Carr-like improvement from year-to-year.

He needs to get the job done this year, especially with those studs he has to throw the ball.

[faba]

Harrington is going to have to beat out Garcia for the starter job in Detroit- he will be looking over his shoulder all year to get yanked if he is not playing well.

[stormshadow19]

That's ridiculous, especially for a QB on a very poor team.

All Harrigton has to do is show David Carr-like improvement from year-to-year.

He needs to get the job done this year, especially with those studs he has to throw the ball.

Tell that to Lions fans, who never liked him to begin with. They expected the sky from him. And with the weapons he has now? Their expectations are very high.

[The Troll]

Flops

Steelers - They will not even make the playoffs next year.

Broncos - They are picked to go to the playoffs every single year. A top ten pick in 2006 would not at all surprise me. They are now Cleveland West.

Packers - They were over-rated last year, and they are definitely not better this year.

Surprises

Titans - I've heard some people say they will rival the 49ers as the worst team in the league. They won't make the playoffs, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them improve on their 5-11 record of 2004 and at least flirt with .500.

Redskins - Joe Gibbs will NOT have back-to-back losing seasons, I don't care if his quarterback is Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, or Kelly Stouffer.

Panthers - If health allows, the Panthers will return to the Super Bowl.

[NJ]

The Arizona Cardinals and Chicago Bears will win their respective divisions. Meanwhile, the Denver Broncos, Green Bay Packers, and of course, the New England Patriots, will be utter flops.

I think Da Bears are going to be greatly improved but the remade Vikings are going to tough to beat for the division.

[Barton]

I dunno

But I bet the vikings will have 1 of the worst run defenses in the league, between 17-32.

Kevin Williams and Pat Williams are a good combo for sure, but kevin williams isn't exactly a run stuffer like say....Drob.

And Udeze was crap last year, and unless Erasmus James doesn't get injured and has a big year, I see that dline and defense in whole having a season that will dissapoint fat teddy.

[Jetsfan80]

I think Da Bears are going to be greatly improved but the remade Vikings are going to tough to beat for the division.

That's why it's called a SURPRISE!

And besides, do you really trust Mike Tice and Ted Cottrell to have anything but a negative impact on that team once again? They couldn't coach a coyote to eat a piece of meat.

[stormshadow19]

That's why it's called a SURPRISE!

And besides, do you really trust Mike Tice and Ted Cottrell to have anything but a negative impact on that team once again? They couldn't coach a coyote to eat a piece of meat.

I'd be willing to give you the Bears, if they had an offense. Everyone keeps on saying how Rex Grossman is awesome, but he hasn't done a damn thing. When Joey had a consistant WR threat, he was a pretty good QB. The Lions have the best offense in the Central, on paper. The Viking have the best offense, on the field. The Bears have a young defense, a real young offense, and a young head coach. That's alot of inexperience.

[Jetsfan80]

I'd be willing to give you the Bears, if they had an offense. Everyone keeps on saying how Rex Grossman is awesome, but he hasn't done a damn thing. When Joey had a consistant WR threat, he was a pretty good QB. The Lions have the best offense in the Central, on paper. The Viking have the best offense, on the field. The Bears have a young defense, a real young offense, and a young head coach. That's alot of inexperience.

Well SOMEONE'S gotta take that crappy division, so why not the Bears? Inexperience isn't necesarilly a bad thing. The 2004 Jets defense was supposed to be "inexperienced", as was our young defensive coordinator, but that didn't work out too badly, now did it?

[LionelRichie]

Flops

Steelers - They will not even make the playoffs next year.

Broncos - They are picked to go to the playoffs every single year. A top ten pick in 2006 would not at all surprise me. They are now Cleveland West.

Packers - They were over-rated last year, and they are definitely not better this year.

Surprises

Titans - I've heard some people say they will rival the 49ers as the worst team in the league. They won't make the playoffs, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them improve on their 5-11 record of 2004 and at least flirt with .500.

Redskins - Joe Gibbs will NOT have back-to-back losing seasons, I don't care if his quarterback is Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, or Kelly Stouffer.

Panthers - If health allows, the Panthers will return to the Super Bowl.

i am with you on the flops but i think you are high on the surprises. first, redskins absolutely stink and they got worse, not better this offseason. snyder is an idiot with his decision making and the skins are known around the league as the place to go to cash in.

lavarr is spouting off at the mouth every chance he gets, sideline santana just got a new deal, their 04 #1 pick is a no-show (he wants a new deal after 1 freakin year), they have 3 high paid qb's on the roster (how can you have 3 high paid QB's), and they completely botched the lavernues deal from a cap perspective. the redskins will be lucky to win 8 with a more realistic expectation of 5-6 games.

[stormshadow19]

Well SOMEONE'S gotta take that crappy division, so why not the Bears? Inexperience isn't necesarilly a bad thing. The 2004 Jets defense was supposed to be "inexperienced", as was our young defensive coordinator, but that didn't work out too badly, now did it?

Taking that spin, why not the Lions then? Their offense has more experience, their coach is better, and their defense is fairly equal. Obviously, the biggest question mark for the Lions is Joey Harrington. And it's a huge question, since how Joey goes, the offense will. But, when you facor in Kevin Jones, Marcus Pollard, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, and Kevin Johnson, that's a pretty damned explosive bunch. Rex Grossman has played what? 5 games his whole career? He's injury prone. The only receiver the Bears have is a 32 year old Mushin Muhammad. Granted, it's arguable that he was the best receiver in the league last year, but I'll use the Curtis Martin arguement with him. And, with the defense... the Bears go as Urlacher goes. He's their best player. The Lions best player is Shaun Rogers. Urlacher's play depends on others. Rogers opens up plays for others. The Lions corners are better... with Dre Bly and Fernando Bryant, and they might get even better with the signing of everyone's favorite, Ty Law. The safties are a push... with the Lions pair of Hold and Kennedy, and the Bears pair of Brown and Green.

I can't believe I broke down the Lions v the Bears on an Jets board...

[MiamiJet]

Taking that spin, why not the Lions then? Their offense has more experience, their coach is better, and their defense is fairly equal. Obviously, the biggest question mark for the Lions is Joey Harrington. And it's a huge question, since how Joey goes, the offense will. But, when you facor in Kevin Jones, Marcus Pollard, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, and Kevin Johnson, that's a pretty damned explosive bunch. Rex Grossman has played what? 5 games his whole career? He's injury prone. The only receiver the Bears have is a 32 year old Mushin Muhammad. Granted, it's arguable that he was the best receiver in the league last year, but I'll use the Curtis Martin arguement with him. And, with the defense... the Bears go as Urlacher goes. He's their best player. The Lions best player is Shaun Rogers. Urlacher's play depends on others. Rogers opens up plays for others. The Lions corners are better... with Dre Bly and Fernando Bryant, and they might get even better with the signing of everyone's favorite, Ty Law. The safties are a push... with the Lions pair of Hold and Kennedy, and the Bears pair of Brown and Green.

I can't believe I broke down the Lions v the Bears on an Jets board...

SS, please.

I'll give you an edge on offense, but don't try to convince me, or any non Detroit fan that the Lions D is better than Chicago's. It's not true and you know it.

The Bears O was anemic and they still allowed less points than Detroit.

Yes. Despite having THE worst offense in the league, they gave up less than your boys.

Despite being on the field for so long, they gave up less.

Despite all the turnovers, they gave up less.

Despite All-Pro Mike Brown and Brian Urlacher missing most of the season, they still gave up less.

Despite missing Charles "Peanut" Tillman, and having a rookie(Vasher) step in, they gave up less.

Less yardage, less points.

Add in a healthy Grossman, Muhammad, and Cedric Benson and they should be much better than last year. IF Grossman remains healthy.

You also bring up a point about your safeties being as good. Stop. Kennedy is as good as Mike Brown? Are you serious? You can't be. Holt is not as good as gray or Green either.

I'll also argue about the cornerback comparisons. Tillman and Vasher are only in their 3rd and 2nd year respectively, and I'd take them both in a hearbeat over Bly and Bryant.

Why? I can argue stats, youth, cost, whatever. I can also argue how Tillman shut down Driver, Moss, Bruce, and Horn in his rookie year and was considered an All Pro by some sportswriters.

The Bears easily have the Best D in their division, and will have one of the best in the league, especially if their O holds up their end.

[The Troll]

Sorry, SS, but the Lions defense can't hold a candle to the Bears. Even with the likes of Chad Hutchinson, Craig Krenzel, and Jonathan Quinn playing quarterback, the Bears managed to stay respectable because of their defense. Lance Briggs has blossomed into a beast beside Urlacher. As over-rated as Urlacher is, Briggs is equally under-rated. The Bears also have Charles Tillman returning from injury next season. In his rookie year, he was sensational. IIRC, Mike Brown also missed most of last season. That Bears defense that was very good last year, should be absolutely awesome next season.

[MiamiJet]

I should add that I love Jacksonville to win their division.

Yes, I think they'll beat out the Colts. They split last year, but both games were pretty close. What killed them were their two losses to Houston.

I like the fact that they won 9 games without any real help at corner and the fact that they also had no pass rush. They solved that by signing Reggie Hayward.

They also have a really good O line, big wideouts, and I love their Qb. The team is just mentally tough and they play very physical. Smash mouth.

Losing Taylor is really possible, but Greg Jones should start, and if not, a trade for Travis Henry might be the final piece.

The team that worries me the most is Jacksonville. more so than Baltimore. I think they could be the team to beat. Boller does nothing for me. Leftwich has already won more big games, close games, than Boller. If New England slips at all, Jacksonville could be the team that beats them.

Right now, I think we're close, but Chad is not 100% yet, and Adrian Jones is also an issue for me. Right now.

[stormshadow19]

Damn... I go away for a few hours and y'all jump all over me. Anyway, might I remind you that the Lions offense was just as anemic. And the safey position has been upgraded, for the Lions. Kenoy Kennedy and Terrance Holt are going to be better than Bracey Walker and Brock Marion. You guys, watching the Bears, know the key to Dick Jaron's defense is the saftey play. I also predicated it on the signing of Ty Law too. Mind you, the Lions had a top five defensive line, last year. They were missing Boss Bailey. Bryant and Bly both missed time. And Jaron is a very conservative D-Coordinator. I fully expect the Lions defense to improve this year. And, like I said, their defense is equal. Based on how it is right now. And the signing of Law, which seems like it could happen any day now, or two months from now. Who knows with Millen.

Then, we could debate offense, if you want... I don't think y'all can win that one, but you're welcome to try.

[PatsFanTX]

Damn, who the hell is the poster that started a damn good football thread on this board?

Two pages and no highjackings?

[TomShane]

Damn, who the hell is the poster that started a damn good football thread on this board?

Two pages and no highjackings?

Shhhhhhhhh the women obviously haven't been in here. This is like the men's lounge. shhhhhhhhhhhh.

BTW, Packers will take that division in a walk. Harrington and Grossman suck.

[stormshadow19]

Shhhhhhhhh the women obviously haven't been in here. This is like the men's lounge. shhhhhhhhhhhh.

BTW, Packers will take that division in a walk. Harrington and Grossman suck.

And who's going to protect Farve from getting knocked on his ass? And how is that defense going to stop anyone? They have the worst defense in the division.

[TomShane]

Harrington. Grossman. Mike Tice. or Brett Favre and Ahman Green.

I'll take Favre and Green, thanks.

[PatsFanTX]

Shhhhhhhhh the women obviously haven't been in here. This is like the men's lounge. shhhhhhhhhhhh.

That was your best post ever.

[PatsFanTX]

And who's going to protect Farve from getting knocked on his a$$? And how is that defense going to stop anyone? They have the worst defense in the division.

I agree with shadow.

The Packers are looking at a 6-10 record.

[stormshadow19]

Harrington. Grossman. Mike Tice. or Brett Favre and Ahman Green.

I'll take Favre and Green, thanks.

Well, if you're going to go like that...

Harrington, with Kevin Jones, Kevin Johnson, Marcus Pollard, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams.

Rex Grossman with Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, and Mushin Muhammad.

Mike Tice has Danute Culpepper. Culpepper is better than Farve.

You just got served TS. Welcome back. You're perfect enhancement talent.

[MiamiJet]

Damn... I go away for a few hours and y'all jump all over me. Anyway, might I remind you that the Lions offense was just as anemic. And the safey position has been upgraded, for the Lions. Kenoy Kennedy and Terrance Holt are going to be better than Bracey Walker and Brock Marion. You guys, watching the Bears, know the key to d!ck Jaron's defense is the saftey play. I also predicated it on the signing of Ty Law too. Mind you, the Lions had a top five defensive line, last year. They were missing Boss Bailey. Bryant and Bly both missed time. And Jaron is a very conservative D-Coordinator. I fully expect the Lions defense to improve this year. And, like I said, their defense is equal. Based on how it is right now. And the signing of Law, which seems like it could happen any day now, or two months from now. Who knows with Millen.

Then, we could debate offense, if you want... I don't think y'all can win that one, but you're welcome to try.

So let's see. Despite the fact that the Bears lost their starting qb in Week 3, their All Pro S in week 2, their All Pro MLB played in only 9 games, and their Pro Bowl level CB was lost for the season having only played 8 games, and Jerry Azumah and Ogunleye both missed 4 games, you think your D is equal?

Hahahahahahaaahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahhahahhahhahahhahhahahaha

I won't even get into the upheaval the Bears had on their O line, just the fact that the Bears had so many injuries to their D and STILL outplayed the Lions in almost every single defensive category is hilarious to me.

Just think about all of these players returning.

You think your D line is better than Chicago's and you're mistaken. Harris and Johnson were rookies and performed better than Rogers and Old Man Wilkinson. Oh, and considering Ogun held out and missed most of training camp and still put up 6 sacks says much about their potential.

You use the excuse about the offense being bad, but at least you had SOME decent qb play and a running back that had holes. The Bears were at a serious disadvantage with teams having a huge edge in time of possession, yet they still performed better than Detroit. That the Lions won both games by a combined score of 10 points also tells me that if Ron Turner can even field a decent offense, Chicago would be a better team.

[stormshadow19]

So let's see. Despite the fact that the Bears lost their starting qb in Week 3, their All Pro S in week 2, their All Pro MLB played in only 9 games, and their Pro Bowl level CB was lost for the season having only played 8 games, and Jerry Azumah and Ogunleye both missed 4 games, you think your D is equal?

I won't even get into the upheaval the Bears had on their O line, just the fact that the Bears had so many injuries to their D and STILL outplayed the Lions in almost every single defensive category is hilarious to me.

Just think about all of these players returning.

You think your D line is better than Chicago's and you're mistaken. Harris and Johnson were rookies and performed better than Rogers and Old Man Wilkinson. Oh, and considering Ogun held out and missed most of training camp and still put up 6 sacks says much about their potential.

You use the excuse about the offense being bad, but at least you had SOME decent qb play and a running back that had holes. The Bears were at a serious disadvantage with teams having a huge edge in time of possession, yet they still performed better than Detroit. That the Lions won both games by a combined score of 10 points also tells me that if Ron Turner can even field a decent offense, Chicago would be a better team.

Yeah, I think the D is equal. Harris and Johnson aren't as good as Shaun Rogers, period. And yeah, the Lions D line is better than the Bears. Not only because they have the best player on either team, but they had more production. And, you're underestimating Marcus Bell, Shaun Cody, and Cory Redding, who is going to bust out. He's rapdily improved.

And, you wanna talk about injuries? The Lions lost their all rookie linebacker for the whole season, lost their Pro Bowl (ie: One of the best) CBs for more than a few games in the season, lost their other CB for more than a few games in the season, and they have Dick Jaron running that defense. So yeah, I think they have an equal defense to the Bears.

And on offense? Kevin Jones wasn't healthy for the first half of the season. Roy Williams wasn't healthy after the first four games. Charles Rogers was lost on the third play of the season. Tai Streets got a concussion from Roy Williams and then became a coward, Az Hakim was injured for a few games during the season, Damien Woody was recovering from a torn ACL, and Mooch didn't call a good game. When he let someone else call it, the Lions offense blew up, but by that time, their defense was running on fumes and people off the street. This year the Lions have a healthy Kevin Jones, a healthy Roy Williams, a healthy Charles Rogers, not to mention a healthy Damien Woody, plus Mike Williams, plus Marcus Pollard, plus Kevin Johnson, plus Rick DeMulling, plus Brad Kosier. The Lions were busy revamping their offensive line too.

And, in case you missed the sports pages, the Lions and Bears were pretty much equal last year. The Lions did get a lot better on offense, due to Rogers and Williams coming aboard, and their defense is equal. Just deal.

[Barton]

Lions and Bears talk eh!!!

Bears defense is OK, but lets not sit here and pretend it's all that and a big bag of chips when it's snot.