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Hobson or Vilma...not both.


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POsted this over at JA...wanted your opinions too...

Vilma is signed through 2008

Hobson is signed through 2007.

IMO, at the end of this season, the FO will make a decision and keep only one. They will either extend Vilma and let Hobson walk as a FA or they will re-sign Hobson and try to trade Vilma.

The rationale is although he played a decent OLB last season and will line up there this season, Hobson is a natural ILB. If they go by the NE model, the Jets are not going to pay top dollar for a guy they feel is not going to be a dominator at his position. Vilma has the skills and pedigree but may never be a great ft in the 3-4 and will command HUGE dollars to keep around after 2008. If he shows in 2007 that he can be a dominant 3-4 ILB, the team might be willing to fork over the dough to keep him. If not...

Here's my thinking. IF David harris is the real deal and cements a starting ILB job, I would re-sign Hobson, move him inside and trade Vilma who, with a year left on his rookie deal will still have high trade value. An inside combo of harris (245) and Hobson (252), both of whom have speed and cover abuility, IMO would be just as good and cheaper then if we broke the bank to keep Vilma. BT stays on the outside and we draft/sign a speed rushing OLB to play opposite him. Vilma would probably bring us a #1 or in the alternative a starting player to help upgrade our skill positions or OL.

And before everyone goes nuts that I am advocating getting rid of a pro bowl LB, remmeber NE cut loose a guy who was generally recognized as the best SS in the game...and prompltly replaced him and won SBs without him. Transaltion: VERY few players are irreplaceable no matter how much we like them and Vilma in a 3-4 may well be VERY replacable.

I just dont see the Jets signing both guys and I think one will land up going after this season.

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my concern is another year of lackluster performance out of his natural position will impact his trade value. If we trade him next year, we should've traded him this year.

I think most would still see him as an impact 4-3 MLB. I think Ray Lewis still would have commanded big trade value even after his underhwleming stint in a 3-4. The league knows what Vilma can do and being that hed have 1 year left on his rookie deal, would still be an attractive trade candidate.

hell, we got a #1 for JA after he skipped a playoff game with his bruised vagina and then sleep walked through 2005!!

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If Vilma struggles in the 3-4 again, then we should ship him out. He'll still have good value.

Hobson I really do not care for. He isnt starting quality IMO, and thats in either system (3-4, or 4-3), he just doesnt make enough plays and gets taken out of too many because of his size.

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If Vilma struggles in the 3-4 again, then we should ship him out. He'll still have good value.

Hobson I really do not care for. He isnt starting quality IMO, and thats in either system (3-4, or 4-3), he just doesnt make enough plays and gets taken out of too many because of his size.

I disgaree...I think hed make an exceptional 3-4 ILB and is an excellent fit next to Harris.

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Vilma should be out of here ASAP after the '07 season if he continues to struggle in the 34 defense. He was the worst of the 4 starting Linebackers last season and if he is again, he needs to go while we can get good value for him from a team that plays a 43.

Hobson should be re-signed and it should be Hobson and Harris in the middle in '08.

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my concern is another year of lackluster performance out of his natural position will impact his trade value. If we trade him next year, we should've traded him this year.

I believe that he will have a fantastic season, and will remain a Jet for some time.

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I disgaree...I think hed make an exceptional 3-4 ILB and is an excellent fit next to Harris.

Maybe, but until I see him there I just cant say for sure. He shouldnt be an OLB though, he's not a playmaker like a true 3-4 OLB should be. Hobson might be too short to play any position in the 3-4, thats the thing that hurts him. He's 6 ft nothing. He's a decent blitzer, but he doesnt run or out maneuver anybody, he's got no wiggle in his pass rush. And TEs and tackles eat hm alive vs the run.

I'd like to see at ILB, but with Vilma and now Harris, I think Hobson will continue to be played at OLB.

I think OLB is our biggest hole on defense, by far.

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I think OLB is our biggest hole on defense, by far.

On one side. Bryan Thomas is turning into one hell of an OLB. Hopefully the combination of maybe Hobson, Bowens and Wadsworth will produce in '07. Maybe Mangini knows something we don't, but Hobson wasn't terrible as an OLB at all last season.

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I believe that he will have a fantastic season, and will remain a Jet for some time.

I hope you are right but I tend to agree with most of the posters here that Vilma is ill suited to his present role in this 3-4 defense and will otherwise command way more money from a 4-3 team than the Jets will ever be willing to pay him. i dont think his trade value will go down because he has firmly established his bonafides as an excellent 4-3 MLB. I expect the Jets to trade him after the season.

I like Hobson and thought he played well last year as an 3-4 OLB. He held the edge well and was pretty effective rushing the QB and covering receivers. He's certainly not an all-pro but he is a good, cheap guy to have on the roster. Ideally, IMO, Hobson is the fifth LB who can back up all four LBs in Mangini's scheme. But that means the Jets will have four better LBs to start, which they dont yet have. So Hobson is still a starter for the Jets.

Vilma's status and Hobson's status have nothing to do with one another. They will be evaluated as individual players. My best guess is that both will be gone at the end of next season: Vilma for the above reasons (he is just too valuable to a 4-3 team and will eventually be offered a fortune by one of them - WAS comes to mind) and Hobson because the Jets havent yet signed him, indicating the jury is still out on how mangini feels about him, and because it only takes one team to offer him too much money, a game I dont see the Jets playing.

Good topic :)

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POsted this over at JA...wanted your opinions too...

Vilma is signed through 2008

Hobson is signed through 2007.

IMO, at the end of this season, the FO will make a decision and keep only one. They will either extend Vilma and let Hobson walk as a FA or they will re-sign Hobson and try to trade Vilma.

The rationale is although he played a decent OLB last season and will line up there this season, Hobson is a natural ILB. If they go by the NE model, the Jets are not going to pay top dollar for a guy they feel is not going to be a dominator at his position. Vilma has the skills and pedigree but may never be a great ft in the 3-4 and will command HUGE dollars to keep around after 2008. If he shows in 2007 that he can be a dominant 3-4 ILB, the team might be willing to fork over the dough to keep him. If not...

Here's my thinking. IF David harris is the real deal and cements a starting ILB job, I would re-sign Hobson, move him inside and trade Vilma who, with a year left on his rookie deal will still have high trade value. An inside combo of harris (245) and Hobson (252), both of whom have speed and cover abuility, IMO would be just as good and cheaper then if we broke the bank to keep Vilma. BT stays on the outside and we draft/sign a speed rushing OLB to play opposite him. Vilma would probably bring us a #1 or in the alternative a starting player to help upgrade our skill positions or OL.

And before everyone goes nuts that I am advocating getting rid of a pro bowl LB, remmeber NE cut loose a guy who was generally recognized as the best SS in the game...and prompltly replaced him and won SBs without him. Transaltion: VERY few players are irreplaceable no matter how much we like them and Vilma in a 3-4 may well be VERY replacable.

I just dont see the Jets signing both guys and I think one will land up going after this season.

WTF??

Does everyone even follow the players???

Hobson played on the outside in Michigan and he has always played on the outside for the JETS... he has NEVER been a MLB or ILB.. EVER...

Look it up... Hobson played Outside LB in college and has always played outside for the JETS...

All of this talk like he is a sure thing in the middle is stupid... thats not even his position right now and is pure forum speculation...

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WTF??

Does everyone even follow the players???

Hobson played on the outside in Michigan and he has always played on the outside for the JETS... he has NEVER been a MLB or ILB.. EVER...

Look it up... Hobson played Outside LB in college and has always played outside for the JETS...

All of this talk like he is a sure thing in the middle is stupid... thats not even his position right now and is pure forum speculation...

Here's an intresting stat for you. Off the main web-site.

"Plays Hobson in the 3-4 base: 496

Hobson as OLB in the 3-4 base: 495

Hobson as ILB in the 3-4 base: 1 "

While it generally agrees with you. I wouldn't have capitalized the word "ever". ;). Hobson's line up has been innaccurately depicted by more than one beat writer. CanniZERO and Todd McShay (Espn) have both made comments that Harris will compete with Hobson for an ILB spot. :confused: . Which is where the above stat came from (Lange's response to the two of them).

As for the thread, good topic... But trying to decide who will get cut, traded, or released next year (and) before training camp starts, is a bit premature. Too many factors could come into play, (ranging from 15 sacks to a broken collar bone) All Jets have the ability to turn in an incredibly productive year, or, to use the 34 transformation as an excuse for lack-luster play. My fingers remain crossed for the former, but '08 is really going to be our year to shine.

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Here's an intresting stat for you. Off the main web-site.

"Plays Hobson in the 3-4 base: 496

Hobson as OLB in the 3-4 base: 495

Hobson as ILB in the 3-4 base: 1 "

While it generally agrees with you. I wouldn't have capitalized the word "ever". ;). Hobson's line up has been innaccurately depicted by more than one beat writer. CanniZERO and Todd McShay (Espn) have both made comments that Harris will compete with Hobson for an ILB spot. :confused: . Which is where the above stat came from (Lange's response to the two of them).

As for the thread, good topic... But trying to decide who will get cut, traded, or released next year (and) before training camp starts, is a bit premature. Too many factors could come into play, (ranging from 15 sacks to a broken collar bone) All Jets have the ability to turn in an incredibly productive year, or, to use the 34 transformation as an excuse for lack-luster play. My fingers remain crossed for the former, but '08 is really going to be our year to shine.

Thanks for finding that... maybe now people will shut up about him being an ILB... maybe he can convert... but he has NEVER (:lol:) played ILB...

I think it will be Thomas Vilma Harris Hobson

Hobson and Vilma will be here for years to come...

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This is a good thread. Lots of good well thought out posts.

A few things.

I have to agree with ecurb on the unlikelyhood of moving Hobson inside. Why would they move him inside? If he could play there I assume he would have been at some point in his career. He is a good, not great, OLB and played well at times last season. However, his price tag is probably going to be too high. I've said this before in another thread, but it wouldnt surprise me if Harris was drafted to be Hobson's replacement.

Vilma will have to produce at superstar levels to be worth the money he's going to want after this season and the truth is HE might want to go to a 4-3 team after this season. I think he will be moved to the WILB spot (Barton's primary spot last year) where he will have a few more opportunities to make plays because he will be taking on lead blockers less often and able to flow sideways to make plays. If he excells at this then I look for him to stay if the team is winning. I think he didnt play there this year because he was the guy who understood the D more and needed to be in the SILB (the adjustment callers)spot.

Here is my primary for the majority of this season LB configuration

OLB/DE B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel/ Kassell

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Hobson/ Harris / Bowens

I also think we could by game 8 or so see this lineup from time to time.

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Vilma

WILB -- Harris/ Kassell/ Schlegel

OLB -- Hobson/ Bowens

My 2008 LB lineup looks like this:

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas/ Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Harris

I fully expect to be trashed by PeteNorth09 and to be respectfully disagreed with by Jetcane.

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This is a good thread. Lots of good well thought out posts.

A few things.

I have to agree with ecurb on the unlikelyhood of moving Hobson inside. Why would they move him inside? If he could play there I assume he would have been at some point in his career. He is a good, not great, OLB and played well at times last season. However, his price tag is probably going to be too high. I've said this before in another thread, but it wouldnt surprise me if Harris was drafted to be Hobson's replacement.

Vilma will have to produce at superstar levels to be worth the money he's going to want after this season and the truth is HE might want to go to a 4-3 team after this season. I think he will be moved to the WILB spot (Barton's primary spot last year) where he will have a few more opportunities to make plays because he will be taking on lead blockers less often and able to flow sideways to make plays. If he excells at this then I look for him to stay if the team is winning. I think he didnt play there this year because he was the guy who understood the D more and needed to be in the SILB (the adjustment callers)spot.

Here is my primary for the majority of this season LB configuration

OLB/DE B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel/ Kassell

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Hobson/ Harris / Bowens

I also think we could by game 8 or so see this lineup from time to time.

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Vilma

WILB -- Harris/ Kassell/ Schlegel

OLB -- Hobson/ Bowens

My 2008 LB lineup looks like this:

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas/ Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Harris

I fully expect to be trashed by PeteNorth09 and to be respectfully disagreed with by Jetcane.

If Schlegel can't improve on ST this year, don't expect him to be a starter next year...

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Here is my primary for the majority of this season LB configuration

OLB/DE B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel/ Kassell

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Hobson/ Harris / Bowens

I also think we could by game 8 or so see this lineup from time to time.

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas / Bowens

SILB -- Vilma

WILB -- Harris/ Kassell/ Schlegel

OLB -- Hobson/ Bowens

My 2008 LB lineup looks like this:

OLB/ DE -- B. Thomas/ Bowens

SILB -- Schlegel

WILB -- Vilma

OLB -- Harris

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my concern is another year of lackluster performance out of his natural position will impact his trade value. If we trade him next year, we should've traded him this year.

Yeah, but how much of his mediocre performance was his natural ability in the 3-4 and how much was it due to it being the first year in a whole new scheme with new coaches? That is the problem. Jets could shoot themselves in the foot taking action either way.

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Yeah, but how much of his mediocre performance was his natural ability in the 3-4 and how much was it due to it being the first year in a whole new scheme with new coaches? That is the problem. Jets could shoot themselves in the foot taking action either way.

let me address a couple of these...

1. Can Hobson play ILB in a 3-4: of course he can. The skill set of a 4-3 OLB is very simlar to that of a 3-4 ILB. Run and coverage responsibilities are much more similar then that of a 3-4 OLB. No, Hobson has never played 3-4 ILB...but neither did Lance Mehl. neither did James farrior. Both were 4-3 OLBs their entire careers. Both moved inside in 3-4s and went to probowls. Hobson at his size and skill set is better suited in the insdie in a 3-4. he was even projected inside by most draft experts. No, he is not a 4-3 MLB, but he is a natural fit for a 3-4 ILB position. He will never be anything more then "good" on the outside in a 3-4...just doesnt have the physical skills.

2. Why wasnt he moved inside before: Answer is simple...we had no one else to play the outside. JA was gone. BT was totally unproven at LB. Chatham was a backup. Barton might have played there but since Hobson was faster the obviously chose him to stay outside and move Barton inside. And if the jets were so enamoured wiht Hobson on the outside, why the hot pursuit of Bowens???

3. Why bring it up now: Because this year, based on the contract situations with the two players, will be critical. Hobson is up after this season...Vilma the season after. They will have to make some choices as to what to do with Vilma if he doesnt improve in the 3-4 and they will have to make that decision before Hobson can leave via FA. I dont see them paying them both and Vilma will cost a LOT to keep. But Vilma also has trade value wheeas Hobson does not.

Look, Vilma could step up huge this year and this could all be moot. Harris couls sh*t the bed and this could all be moot. BUT, if Harris becomes a fixture inside, wiht the contrats as they are, the team will have to mke some tough decisions on LB personell.

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POsted this over at JA...wanted your opinions too...

Vilma is signed through 2008

Hobson is signed through 2007.

IMO, at the end of this season, the FO will make a decision and keep only one. They will either extend Vilma and let Hobson walk as a FA or they will re-sign Hobson and try to trade Vilma.

The rationale is although he played a decent OLB last season and will line up there this season, Hobson is a natural ILB. If they go by the NE model, the Jets are not going to pay top dollar for a guy they feel is not going to be a dominator at his position. Vilma has the skills and pedigree but may never be a great ft in the 3-4 and will command HUGE dollars to keep around after 2008. If he shows in 2007 that he can be a dominant 3-4 ILB, the team might be willing to fork over the dough to keep him. If not...

Here's my thinking. IF David harris is the real deal and cements a starting ILB job, I would re-sign Hobson, move him inside and trade Vilma who, with a year left on his rookie deal will still have high trade value. An inside combo of harris (245) and Hobson (252), both of whom have speed and cover abuility, IMO would be just as good and cheaper then if we broke the bank to keep Vilma. BT stays on the outside and we draft/sign a speed rushing OLB to play opposite him. Vilma would probably bring us a #1 or in the alternative a starting player to help upgrade our skill positions or OL.

And before everyone goes nuts that I am advocating getting rid of a pro bowl LB, remmeber NE cut loose a guy who was generally recognized as the best SS in the game...and prompltly replaced him and won SBs without him. Transaltion: VERY few players are irreplaceable no matter how much we like them and Vilma in a 3-4 may well be VERY replacable.

I just dont see the Jets signing both guys and I think one will land up going after this season.

IMO Hobson and harris will form our inside backers. They will be much better vs the run. I see VILMA moving outside or traded. This is the year to trade him. If he has a lackluster year his value will be diminished. so if ERIC & T decide he must go, do it sooner rather then later! We still do not have a WIDEBODY NT , unless POUHA steps up. DREOB is OK but does NOT fit the physical needs of the NT position. If VILMA stays inside without a NT, look out! Either trade him now or move him outside. he will most likely want to leave when his contract is up anyway. Lets get value for him.

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IMO Hobson and harris will form our inside backers. They will be much better vs the run. I see VILMA moving outside or traded. This is the year to trade him. If he has a lackluster year his value will be diminished. so if ERIC & T decide he must go, do it sooner rather then later! We still do not have a WIDEBODY NT , unless POUHA steps up. DREOB is OK but does NOT fit the physical needs of the NT position. If VILMA stays inside without a NT, look out! Either trade him now or move him outside. he will most likely want to leave when his contract is up anyway. Lets get value for him.

So you think we will take out ILB who has NEVER played OLB... and move him outside.... then take our OLB who has NEVER played ILB and move him inside...

This makes us better how?

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Vilma has had one year within this new system; let's give him another chance to prove himself, no? They can toy with inserting him outside in some packages, but let's not get carried away. Vilma is an outstanding football player, and, with time, will prove himself in the 3-4. Hobson provides nice depth at the moment, which is the most important aspect of the 3-4; versatile LB depth. Two young, talented, smart players; let's keep'em both!

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What?

NT is the biggest hole on our defense, by far.

And when I say far, I mean FAR.

We'll see. Drob showed promise in the 2nd half of last year. Not your typical NT, but those guys are rare.

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So you think we will take out ILB who has NEVER played OLB... and move him outside.... then take our OLB who has NEVER played ILB and move him inside...

This makes us better how?

First off Victor Hobson has played middle/inside linebacker. Here are 2 scouting reports from 2003 that list him as a MLB:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/hobson-victor.htm

and one that lists him as an ILB

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/3367.html

Mangini drafts football players. That is why he drafted Brad Smith, a QB last year and put him at WR (A position he never played by the way). Mangini is of the Belichick Parcells school of thought. He will draft versitile LB's that will have the where with all to play and learn all the positions (For now we might need a mulligan on schlegel) So will Harris play ILB? Definitley but I guarantee he sees time at OLB too. Mike Vrabel plays every LB position for the Pats and Harris will do the same.

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/hobson-victor.htm]

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First off Victor Hobson has played middle/inside linebacker. Here are 2 scouting reports from 2003 that list him as a MLB:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/hobson-victor.htm

and one that lists him as an ILB

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/3367.html

Mangini drafts football players. That is why he drafted Brad Smith, a QB last year and put him at WR (A position he never played by the way). Mangini is of the Belichick Parcells school of thought. He will draft versitile LB's that will have the where with all to play and learn all the positions (For now we might need a mulligan on schlegel) So will Harris play ILB? Definitley but I guarantee he sees time at OLB too. Mike Vrabel plays every LB position for the Pats and Harris will do the same.

You may see Harris on offense too

Fullback

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So you think we will take out ILB who has NEVER played OLB... and move him outside.... then take our OLB who has NEVER played ILB and move him inside...

This makes us better how?

HOBSON is a born ILB. he is a clone of HARRIS. review their college careers and records. HOBSON can play ILB. VILMA is a talented guy who never played in a 3-4 either. he adapted and is still learning but did not disgrace himself last year. Without a NT as a bodyguard he was hit by bigger men on nearly every play. Thus with TWO bigger and stronger men inside our run defense should improve. Vilma can play outside after he gets some OJT. A great player can play just about anywhere and do fine. Now why do you feel that VILMA can not move outside? Why do you feel HOBSON can not get to be a very tough ILB? Please review HOBSON's collegiate career prior to answering? His stats were nearly identical to HARRIS. They could form a very good duo inside, IMO.

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HOBSON is a born ILB. he is a clone of HARRIS. review their college careers and records. HOBSON can play ILB. VILMA is a talented guy who never played in a 3-4 either. he adapted and is still learning but did not disgrace himself last year. Without a NT as a bodyguard he was hit by bigger men on nearly every play. Thus with TWO bigger and stronger men inside our run defense should improve. Vilma can play outside after he gets some OJT. A great player can play just about anywhere and do fine. Now why do you feel that VILMA can not move outside? Why do you feel HOBSON can not get to be a very tough ILB? Please review HOBSON's collegiate career prior to answering? His stats were nearly identical to HARRIS. They could form a very good duo inside, IMO.

Because despite scouting reports that projected him as an NFL MLB (notice the word projected) Hobson played OLB throughout college and has played OLB his entire pro career. The positions are quited different. First, but certainly not least the ILB has to call plays and adjustments at the line. Second, their reads are different and their gap responsiblitity more complex. There are other reasons as well.

If Hobson could have played inside and Vilma outside they would have done that last year. Barton and Hobson are also physically similar and I'm sure that if Hobson could have handled the inside he would have played there and Barton (who is better and more versitile) would have gone outside. Its the same reason that Vilma played SILB and Barton WILB. Because Barton is bigger if he could have handled the primary play calling and line adjustment duties he would have done them.

Vilma is too small to play ILB in the 3-4. Truth is that Hobson is a bit short for the spot too (hello Harris).

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