Green Jets & Ham Posted May 22, 2005 Author Share Posted May 22, 2005 Fair Question in my mind Thus far the velocity on his fastball has not been close to what it once was ... and that better change or we will have a HOF'er on the decline That's always my fear with signing older players ... its why I am so ANTI DINOSAUR ... that was not the case with Randy Johnson as I was all for signing him, but perhaps breaking my own rule was a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Fair Question in my mind Thus far the velocity on his fastball has not been close to what it once was ... and that better change or we will have a HOF'er on the decline That's always my fear with signing older players ... its why I am so ANTI DINOSAUR ... that was not the case with Randy Johnson as I was all for signing him, but perhaps breaking my own rule was a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 still better than having Home Run Javy out there or Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright or Jeff Weaver. among the clowns who have wrongfully been put in pinstripes in the last 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 still better than having Home Run Javy out there or Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright or Jeff Weaver. among the clowns who have wrongfully been put in pinstripes in the last 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 still better than having Home Run Javy out there or Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright or Jeff Weaver. among the clowns who have wrongfully been put in pinstripes in the last 5 years I understand your thinking and agree with it to a point, but the Yanks seem to quick to pull the trigger on getting rid of these players. Javier at the very least should have been given another season, I understand to land Johnson you had to give him up, but he is still on the right side of 30. A better example is Lieber. You sign him while injured to a contract, wait two years and after he has a decent second half and playoffs, the Yanks get rid of him and bring in Wright. Plus, Wright got hit in the playoffs. The bottomline is the Yankees are a poorly run team. They are just lucky they have the bank to overcome most obstacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 still better than having Home Run Javy out there or Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright or Jeff Weaver. among the clowns who have wrongfully been put in pinstripes in the last 5 years I understand your thinking and agree with it to a point, but the Yanks seem to quick to pull the trigger on getting rid of these players. Javier at the very least should have been given another season, I understand to land Johnson you had to give him up, but he is still on the right side of 30. A better example is Lieber. You sign him while injured to a contract, wait two years and after he has a decent second half and playoffs, the Yanks get rid of him and bring in Wright. Plus, Wright got hit in the playoffs. The bottomline is the Yankees are a poorly run team. They are just lucky they have the bank to overcome most obstacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 That's always my fear with signing older players ... its why I am so ANTI DINOSAUR ... Ham - you'll still take The Rocket in a heartbeat if he avails himself won't you? I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 That's always my fear with signing older players ... its why I am so ANTI DINOSAUR ... Ham - you'll still take The Rocket in a heartbeat if he avails himself won't you? I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I'd rather have the combination of Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey then Randy Johnson. The Yankees gave away 2 young star pitchers for an old timer who they knew was going to only give them 1 or 2 years of pitching, it was stupid from the get-go and it's even worse now that he isn't pitching like the Randy of old. Also, Jeff Weaver was never really given a chance here. Weaver was a good pitcher but big George just didn't care for him, another stupid move. Letting Andy Pettitte go 2 seasons ago, another stupid move. Letting Jon Lieber and El Duque go after last season, ANOTHER stupid move. Jose Contreas, why is he gone? Because he didn't pitch well against Boston? Well then, sh*t, Mariano Rivera should be gone too then I suppose because Contreas had 2 winning seasons here as well. Stupid decisions by "The Boss" bringing in 2 old timers in Brown and Johnson and giving away youth. Carl Pavano was the one good signing and so far, as much as I like him, he has been nothing but decent so he'll probably be out of here for say, Greg Maddux or John Smoltz after this or next year. Jaret Wright...still don't know yet exactly but so far he's looked like sh*t. Here's the guys we should've had to choose from for a rotation: Mike Mussina Andy Pettitte Jon Lieber Javier Vazquez Carl Pavano Jeff Weaver El Duque Jose Contreas Chien-Ming Wang Brad Halsey Pick any of those 5 and that rotation is younger and better then the one the Yankees put on the field right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I'd rather have the combination of Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey then Randy Johnson. The Yankees gave away 2 young star pitchers for an old timer who they knew was going to only give them 1 or 2 years of pitching, it was stupid from the get-go and it's even worse now that he isn't pitching like the Randy of old. Also, Jeff Weaver was never really given a chance here. Weaver was a good pitcher but big George just didn't care for him, another stupid move. Letting Andy Pettitte go 2 seasons ago, another stupid move. Letting Jon Lieber and El Duque go after last season, ANOTHER stupid move. Jose Contreas, why is he gone? Because he didn't pitch well against Boston? Well then, sh*t, Mariano Rivera should be gone too then I suppose because Contreas had 2 winning seasons here as well. Stupid decisions by "The Boss" bringing in 2 old timers in Brown and Johnson and giving away youth. Carl Pavano was the one good signing and so far, as much as I like him, he has been nothing but decent so he'll probably be out of here for say, Greg Maddux or John Smoltz after this or next year. Jaret Wright...still don't know yet exactly but so far he's looked like sh*t. Here's the guys we should've had to choose from for a rotation: Mike Mussina Andy Pettitte Jon Lieber Javier Vazquez Carl Pavano Jeff Weaver El Duque Jose Contreas Chien-Ming Wang Brad Halsey Pick any of those 5 and that rotation is younger and better then the one the Yankees put on the field right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Actually I was reading an interesting thing on Vazquez in the Sporting News last night and he seemed to have had changed his release point due to his injured shoulder blade and once he found out this spring he corrected that and his speed went up from 89-90 mph back to the 93-94 mph range. If you remember he was in the ALL STAR GAME for the first half of the season, so the injury was the cause for Vazquez in my mind. Giambi was good for 2 years, but I agree, a waste now. Nothing wrong with Sheffield. Tom Gordon...who knows what's gotten into him. Should've kept Karsay after he came back, stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Actually I was reading an interesting thing on Vazquez in the Sporting News last night and he seemed to have had changed his release point due to his injured shoulder blade and once he found out this spring he corrected that and his speed went up from 89-90 mph back to the 93-94 mph range. If you remember he was in the ALL STAR GAME for the first half of the season, so the injury was the cause for Vazquez in my mind. Giambi was good for 2 years, but I agree, a waste now. Nothing wrong with Sheffield. Tom Gordon...who knows what's gotten into him. Should've kept Karsay after he came back, stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Javy is striking out a guy an inning and giving up a HR every other start this year. He ERA is right around 4. His ERA will be in the 3's by the all start break. The guy will be a # 1 starter when RJ is out of the league. BUT the Yankees can't afford the luxury of time so this will always be the downside of the win it all now motto. They had to make this trade. RJ gives them the best shot at winning this year. He hasn't been himself yet. But based on his numbers it looks like it will be worth it. The only thing to watch is his velocity IMO. It seems a little low. As a result he is giving up a home run a start. But his ERA is still under 4. If he keeps it there he will win a bunch of games here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Javy is striking out a guy an inning and giving up a HR every other start this year. He ERA is right around 4. His ERA will be in the 3's by the all start break. The guy will be a # 1 starter when RJ is out of the league. BUT the Yankees can't afford the luxury of time so this will always be the downside of the win it all now motto. They had to make this trade. RJ gives them the best shot at winning this year. He hasn't been himself yet. But based on his numbers it looks like it will be worth it. The only thing to watch is his velocity IMO. It seems a little low. As a result he is giving up a home run a start. But his ERA is still under 4. If he keeps it there he will win a bunch of games here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 His leg isn't lifting as high as usual, it might have to do with his groin problem But his velocity is improving. Early in the season it was 91 mph, now its around 94 mph, in a month or so, he'll be back throwing 97 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 His leg isn't lifting as high as usual, it might have to do with his groin problem But his velocity is improving. Early in the season it was 91 mph, now its around 94 mph, in a month or so, he'll be back throwing 97 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 His leg isn't lifting as high as usual, it might have to do with his groin problem You crack me up with your diagnosis of mechanics. Not saying you are off...just laughing because you are always like here is the fix and it is simple. Giambi's stance is different, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 His leg isn't lifting as high as usual, it might have to do with his groin problem You crack me up with your diagnosis of mechanics. Not saying you are off...just laughing because you are always like here is the fix and it is simple. Giambi's stance is different, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 You crack me up with your diagnosis of mechanics. Not saying you are off...just laughing because you are always like here is the fix and it is simple. Giambi's stance is different, etc. It's not simple though. Giambi's screwed either way because he no longer has that great eye anymore, and it's mental with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 You crack me up with your diagnosis of mechanics. Not saying you are off...just laughing because you are always like here is the fix and it is simple. Giambi's stance is different, etc. It's not simple though. Giambi's screwed either way because he no longer has that great eye anymore, and it's mental with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I'd rather have the combination of Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey then Randy Johnson. The Yankees gave away 2 young star pitchers for an old timer who they knew was going to only give them 1 or 2 years of pitching, it was stupid from the get-go and it's even worse now that he isn't pitching like the Randy of old. Also, Jeff Weaver was never really given a chance here. Weaver was a good pitcher but big George just didn't care for him, another stupid move. Letting Andy Pettitte go 2 seasons ago, another stupid move. Letting Jon Lieber and El Duque go after last season, ANOTHER stupid move. Jose Contreas, why is he gone? Because he didn't pitch well against Boston? Well then, Sh#t, Mariano Rivera should be gone too then I suppose because Contreas had 2 winning seasons here as well. Stupid decisions by "The Boss" bringing in 2 old timers in Brown and Johnson and giving away youth. Carl Pavano was the one good signing and so far, as much as I like him, he has been nothing but decent so he'll probably be out of here for say, Greg Maddux or John Smoltz after this or next year. Jaret Wright...still don't know yet exactly but so far he's looked like Sh#t. Here's the guys we should've had to choose from for a rotation: Mike Mussina Andy Pettitte Jon Lieber Javier Vazquez Carl Pavano Jeff Weaver El Duque Jose Contreas Chien-Ming Wang Brad Halsey Pick any of those 5 and that rotation is younger and better then the one the Yankees put on the field right now. CHECKBOOK BASEBALL....Yanks problem since 2000 is they always need the immediate fix. Maybe George gets suspended again and the team can be built using solid baseball decisions. That said, you brought in Randy for October so to beat up the deal now is foolish. Yanks required a answer for Schilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I'd rather have the combination of Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey then Randy Johnson. The Yankees gave away 2 young star pitchers for an old timer who they knew was going to only give them 1 or 2 years of pitching, it was stupid from the get-go and it's even worse now that he isn't pitching like the Randy of old. Also, Jeff Weaver was never really given a chance here. Weaver was a good pitcher but big George just didn't care for him, another stupid move. Letting Andy Pettitte go 2 seasons ago, another stupid move. Letting Jon Lieber and El Duque go after last season, ANOTHER stupid move. Jose Contreas, why is he gone? Because he didn't pitch well against Boston? Well then, Sh#t, Mariano Rivera should be gone too then I suppose because Contreas had 2 winning seasons here as well. Stupid decisions by "The Boss" bringing in 2 old timers in Brown and Johnson and giving away youth. Carl Pavano was the one good signing and so far, as much as I like him, he has been nothing but decent so he'll probably be out of here for say, Greg Maddux or John Smoltz after this or next year. Jaret Wright...still don't know yet exactly but so far he's looked like Sh#t. Here's the guys we should've had to choose from for a rotation: Mike Mussina Andy Pettitte Jon Lieber Javier Vazquez Carl Pavano Jeff Weaver El Duque Jose Contreas Chien-Ming Wang Brad Halsey Pick any of those 5 and that rotation is younger and better then the one the Yankees put on the field right now. CHECKBOOK BASEBALL....Yanks problem since 2000 is they always need the immediate fix. Maybe George gets suspended again and the team can be built using solid baseball decisions. That said, you brought in Randy for October so to beat up the deal now is foolish. Yanks required a answer for Schilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Vasquez in that spot was a huge mistake by Torre. Damon had taken him yard twice the preious time he had faced him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 you cant kill fat george, as much as I'd like to boil him in oil, for letting go of Javy Vazquez, let alone Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras. Did you see the look on Vazquez's face when he was coming into game 7 for Brown with bases loaded? He looked like he was ready to throw up in a bucket before he even left the bullpen!!! If he induced a ground ball out, the BoSox would have been only up 2-0 at that point. Instead he gave Johnny Damon, who was swinging the bat worse than a Little Leaguer (no offense, EB) a gopher ball that you or I could have hit out of Yankee Stadium. October Pressure + Vazquez = Disaster. Getting Randy Johnson was a no-brainer for the Yankees. Of course, so was Giamboo, Mussina, Raul Mondesi, Denny Neagle, Jeff Weaver, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Flash Gordon, etc...see a pattern here? Vasquez in that spot was a huge mistake by Torre. Damon had taken him yard twice the preious time he had faced him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I guess you can blame Torre...but Damon hadnt had a hit all series against the Yankees so putting the majority of the blame on Joe seems unfair. Javy simply couldnt get it done in NY. I'm not sure he'll ever be an ace of any staff, Max. Thats a little presumptuous to say the least. Pretty good starter, yes. But an ace? I need to see a lot more consistency from Javy before I become a believer. He had his chance to earn his stripes last October and nearly suffered a heart attack on national TV. And to think...you guys gave up little Nick Johnson (+garbage) for Javy...who you gave up (+garbage...Brad Halsey sucks and would never have pitched for NYY in a million years) for Randy Johnson!!! Thats like the one really good move the Yankees made since 2001, I'd think you would love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I guess you can blame Torre...but Damon hadnt had a hit all series against the Yankees so putting the majority of the blame on Joe seems unfair. Javy simply couldnt get it done in NY. I'm not sure he'll ever be an ace of any staff, Max. Thats a little presumptuous to say the least. Pretty good starter, yes. But an ace? I need to see a lot more consistency from Javy before I become a believer. He had his chance to earn his stripes last October and nearly suffered a heart attack on national TV. And to think...you guys gave up little Nick Johnson (+garbage) for Javy...who you gave up (+garbage...Brad Halsey sucks and would never have pitched for NYY in a million years) for Randy Johnson!!! Thats like the one really good move the Yankees made since 2001, I'd think you would love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Mac Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 He still has enough to get it done. Keep in mind the Mets seem to have his #. Top 10 pitcher to this very day, don't worry so much. Grats on the series, Yankee fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Mac Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 He still has enough to get it done. Keep in mind the Mets seem to have his #. Top 10 pitcher to this very day, don't worry so much. Grats on the series, Yankee fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 the big unit will be fine come july, and he will be throwing gas when it warms up. come sept he will dominate in big games including the playoffs. not paying lieber was a mistake, a big mistake. ny wanted to lowball lieber and they lost out in a big way, i don't think he ended up signing for big money. how can you let lieber walk and sign jarret freakin wright - terrible move. mussina is the one that i am worried about b/c he has become very hittable over the years. pavano was a good signing, young guy with good years ahead of him. how about brouzaban, or whatever his name is that ny traded away. he is dominating in la right now, him, halsey, vasquez, el duque, and contraras make up a good staff on their own and ny gave them away for nothing. i think the problem lies with stottlemyer as much wiht casman and george. how can wright dominate in atl and suck in ny? it seems as soon as pitchers get away from stot/connors they improve dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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