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Larry Johnson says training camp holdout is possible


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Usually I'm against holdouts, but for LJ, playing for Herm, and seeing what Herm did to Curtis, LJ should definitely look for a big payday. I don't think he needs more than LT though or anything like that, but he really needs to be paid more than a backup on a bottom feeding team. The way he's being used, if he lasts 3 more years I'd be stunned, pay the guy cash for the next 2 years before he's stuck in a wheelchair anyway.

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Between a record 416 carries and the Earl Campbell stuff, I can't fault Johnson. If you're going to make him your offense, pay him accordingly. Or trade him to someone who will.

"If they really want it to hit home, look at Earl Campbell. He’s not complaining, but he can barely walk. He’s sitting in wheelchairs. He can’t sit at banquets for a long amount of time before he has to leave. It’s sad to have to watch him go through what he has to go through. You look at me; I don’t want to be like that. But I may end up like him. Who knows? I have to be able to plan for that, plan for my kids. I don’t know if I’m going to be running back and forth taking my kids to soccer practice.”

Campbell was similar in the sense that his coach, Bum Phillips, barely had a playbook except hand it to Earl 35 times a game,and throw an odd pass to keep the defense honest. People look at the stats and dismiss Campbell; I'll tell you that in his prime there was no one better-physical, fast, hung onto the ball, almost unstoppable. But the wear&tear of that kind of work means Johnson's career is going to be over probably around his 30th birthday, and he will be physically impaired thereafter.

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So a coach rats him out for text messaging???

Same old stuff week after week, nothing new in the system???

Was this last year during Herm's tenure??? Or was it before last year...

In one quote he sat in the back with only a coach behind him, then he says he doesnt sit in the back.... Does he mean he doesnt sit in the back anymore since he got caught texting and he is trying to look like a good guy to get a better contract????

I agree, I am against guys holding out for a new contract, but Herm is going to run him into the ground... I almost feel bad for him... He should demand a trade.

what do you mean he is Going to run him into the ground?

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But he wants to get paid like he's the best player at his position, it's not going to happen.

Tomlinson got his deal a couple of years ago. The salary cap was like $93M then. Now it's like $110M & next year will be almost $120M. If you want to compare apples & apples, change Tomlinson's guaranteed $ proportionally to about $25M and then determine what LJ is worth.

In a funny way, I understand Peterson's point of view. Johnson hasn't been the model team player & Herm is going to make sure he has a short career. Frankly I'm amazed he made it through last season. Go look up other players who carried the ball near that many times & see what mostly happened thereafter. Jamal Anderson, Eddie George, Terrell Davis, Barry Foster, Edgerrin James, Ricky Williams, Jamal Lewis, Christian Okoye, James Wilder. These guys either got seriously injured the very next season, their career was very short after a high-carry season like that, or were just never the same dominant-type player again. And LJ had more carries than any of them.

He'll have a short career if he keeps this up. Herm will see to it that he does. Now if you're a GM, do you want to sink a $20M signing bonus into a player that will likely be done within 3 years (if you're lucky)? Now consider that this year for sure & probably next year as well, you're not a contender. Now decide what to do.

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Tomlinson got his deal a couple of years ago. The salary cap was like $93M then. Now it's like $110M & next year will be almost $120M. If you want to compare apples & apples, change Tomlinson's guaranteed $ proportionally to about $25M and then determine what LJ is worth.

In a funny way, I understand Peterson's point of view. Johnson hasn't been the model team player & Herm is going to make sure he has a short career. Frankly I'm amazed he made it through last season. Go look up other players who carried the ball near that many times & see what mostly happened thereafter. Jamal Anderson, Eddie George, Terrell Davis, Barry Foster, Edgerrin James, Ricky Williams, Jamal Lewis, Christian Okoye, James Wilder. These guys either got seriously injured the very next season, their career was very short after a high-carry season like that, or were just never the same dominant-type player again. And LJ had more carries than any of them.

He'll have a short career if he keeps this up. Herm will see to it that he does. Now if you're a GM, do you want to sink a $20M signing bonus into a player that will likely be done within 3 years (if you're lucky)? Now consider that this year for sure & probably next year as well, you're not a contender. Now decide what to do.

This is the crux of the issue-if Peterson as GM is going to allow his idiot head coach to run down his talented feature back, that said feature back, knowing damn well his future as a feature back figures to be really short due to such overuse, should expect to be duly compensated. What ever you think of Johnson, he knows all this. All those carries come with a cost to his body, a cost that means he won't have a very long career. Peterson went out last season and got Michael bennett, who Edwards barely used at all.

And it keeps coming back to the headcoach being a complete idiot. It's kinda embarrassing to have him out there acting like he's a total 3rd party in all this. He works for the Chiefs. If he wants to pretend otherwise to ingratiate himslef with Johnson, that's silliness. And I cannot imagine Peterson is overjoyed with that, nor that with a decent backup in Bennett that he outbid several teams for, Edwards instead ran Johnson into the ground and created this mess.

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So a coach rats him out for text messaging???

Same old stuff week after week, nothing new in the system???

Was this last year during Herm's tenure??? Or was it before last year...

In one quote he sat in the back with only a coach behind him, then he says he doesnt sit in the back.... Does he mean he doesnt sit in the back anymore since he got caught texting and he is trying to look like a good guy to get a better contract????

I agree, I am against guys holding out for a new contract, but Herm is going to run him into the ground... I almost feel bad for him... He should demand a trade.

Took me a minute to get that one too. I think he means he's sititng in the back. The last guy and nobody sits behind him. It's kind of silly that he thinks nobody in front would know that he's texting people, but at least he admitted it was immature. Same thing week after week, nothing new in the offense is classic Herm.

Tomlinson got his deal a couple of years ago. The salary cap was like $93M then. Now it's like $110M & next year will be almost $120M. If you want to compare apples & apples, change Tomlinson's guaranteed $ proportionally to about $25M and then determine what LJ is worth.

This is one of the main points that JGB and I dispute regarding these contract disputes. He thinks that all the contracts should all have escalator clauses based upon changes in the salary cap. I don't think that's really possible and even if it were, it's not feasible for the majority of the league. There are mid-level guys that teams would not offer such a deal, but would still be better off holding out now and becoming a FA on the open market with all the money out there. Kendall may or may not be one of these guys. His deal is pretty fresh, so they should have at least contemplated the rising cap.

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This is one of the main points that JGB and I dispute regarding these contract disputes. He thinks that all the contracts should all have escalator clauses based upon changes in the salary cap. I don't think that's really possible and even if it were, it's not feasible for the majority of the league. There are mid-level guys that teams would not offer such a deal, but would still be better off holding out now and becoming a FA on the open market with all the money out there. Kendall may or may not be one of these guys. His deal is pretty fresh, so they should have at least contemplated the rising cap.

i didn't say all. when negotiating a contract, you have to give up something to get something. for some guys it may make sense to give up some up-front money in consideration for an escalator clause. if you're unwilling to make that tradeoff, you can't complain when the salary cap raises suddenly making you "underpaid" in year 2 of a 5 year deal, especially when everyone knew the cap was about to go up. kendell was trying to have his cake (higher up front pay) and eat it too ("now that salary cap raised (which i knew would happen but chose not to negotiate in an escalator clause because the jets would have said in consideration for said clause, less up front money), i need more.")

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i didn't say all. when negotiating a contract, you have to give up something to get something. for some guys it may make sense to give up some up-front money in consideration for an escalator clause. if you're unwilling to make that tradeoff, you can't complain when the salary cap raises suddenly making you "underpaid" in year 2 of a 5 year deal, especially when everyone knew the cap was about to go up. kendell was trying to have his cake (higher up front pay) and eat it too ("now that salary cap raised (which i knew would happen but chose not to negotiate in an escalator clause because the jets would have said in consideration for said clause, less up front money), i need more.")

I won't get into it again, except to say that the NFL is not the free market. Therefore, the give something to get something arms length negotiations you are discussing are not so cut and dried. IMO, it just doesn't happen.

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I won't get into it again, except to say that the NFL is not the free market. Therefore, the give something to get something arms length negotiations you are discussing are not so cut and dried. IMO, it just doesn't happen.

not cut and dried? if a player wants an escaltor or a no-trade clause, it doesn't come free. NFL might not be a free market but i'm sure you agree that consideration in NFL contracts is alive and well. if anything, i don't think agents are creative enough with their contracts. we have some cutting edge sports and entertainment lawyers in our firm that are really changing the way these things are worked.

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not cut and dried? if a player wants an escaltor or a no-trade clause, it doesn't come free. NFL might not be a free market but i'm sure you agree that consideration in NFL contracts is alive and well. if anything, i don't think agents are creative enough with their contracts. we have some cutting edge sports and entertainment lawyers in our firm that are really changing the way these things are worked.

Consideration? Why should they have to give consideration for something they are already entitled to? The system is crooked. Period. I don't know you or your firm. I know that many players just end up using some old athlete or alumni from school to rep them. Still, there are plenty of talented, free thinking attorneys that are negotiating and drafting many of these contracts. Without some guys willing to hold out and stick to their guns your best, brightest, most creative attorneys are not worth ****. The owners have had the hammer for too long. For things to change, when the players get the chance they have to take that hammer away and start swinging.

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Consideration? Why should they have to give consideration for something they are already entitled to? The system is crooked. Period. I don't know you or your firm. I know that many players just end up using some old athlete or alumni from school to rep them. Still, there are plenty of talented, free thinking attorneys that are negotiating and drafting many of these contracts. Without some guys willing to hold out and stick to their guns your best, brightest, most creative attorneys are not worth ****. The owners have had the hammer for too long. For things to change, when the players get the chance they have to take that hammer away and start swinging.

To throw your hands up and say "the system is crooked so no one thinks to try for an escalator clause" is overly simplistic imho. a high value unrestricted free agent has a lot of latitude in negotiations and can say "i will only sign a contract with such a clause" and there is a good chance he'll get it as part of a contract with--admittedly--less up front $. the fact is, no player wants this because they want to see the big cha-ching on what their contract is worth and agents want that 10%. this is short-sighted imho. i always advise clients that stability is often worth more than its net present value. after all, insurance companies make a profit because they exaggerate the risk of loss but only a fool wouldn't insure his house.

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To throw your hands up and say "the system is crooked so no one thinks to try for an escalator clause" is overly simplistic imho. a high value unrestricted free agent has a lot of latitude in negotiations and can say "i will only sign a contract with such a clause" and there is a good chance he'll get it as part of a contract with--admittedly--less up front $. the fact is, no player wants this because they want to see the big cha-ching on what their contract is worth and agents want that 10%. this is short-sighted imho. i always advise clients that stability is often worth more than its net present value. after all, insurance companies make a profit because they exaggerate the risk of loss but only a fool wouldn't insure his house.

Do you honestly think you are the first one to think of an escalator clause? It would be nice in a perfect world. It's perfectly possible that the matter is brought up and the teams just say no escalator clause. There are very few players that are capable of ramming a contract down a teams throat. Please explain why a player should have to give up "cha-ching" for the right of having his contract raised when the cap rises? The player was only forced to sign for such a small amount because of the limited money going around. Why shouldn't he have the right to have his contract rise with the cap?

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Do you honestly think you are the first one to think of an escalator clause? It would be nice in a perfect world. It's perfectly possible that the matter is brought up and the teams just say no escalator clause. There are very few players that are capable of ramming a contract down a teams throat. Please explain why a player should have to give up "cha-ching" for the right of having his contract raised when the cap rises? The player was only forced to sign for such a small amount because of the limited money going around. Why shouldn't he have the right to have his contract rise with the cap?

you're right to some extent. on the contracts i've been privy to, the team usually says "we'll give you an escalator clause but it sets such a bad precedent that in exchange we're cutting your signing bonus 10%." giving up guaranteed money is a big no no in the world of no-gaurantee nfl contracts, obviously so we always advise against this. however, i have been told that escalator clauses are a hard sell to athletes as well because they all want the Boom factor of having a "$32 million contract" hitting the headlines. it's an ego thing.

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also google "escalator clause nfl" and you'll see this stuff is negotiated in all the time. if your agent didn't pursue it for you, no bitching when the cap rises. maybe the team decided not to give it to you because you weren't worth it-- presumably your agent got you the best contract your skill allowed or you would've signed with a team that allowed it.

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We disagree. We aren't going to agree. Saying they are negotiated all the time kind of proves my point. I think that saying that athletes are "going for the bling factor" is kind of condescending. I don't think that most of them are so shortsighted. It's more that they know they will be in the league for three years or less so they need as much guarantee as possible. In any event I'm sure Pete Kendall wasn't looking to bling it up with his posse when reporting his contract figures.

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We disagree. We aren't going to agree. Saying they are negotiated all the time kind of proves my point. I think that saying that athletes are "going for the bling factor" is kind of condescending. I don't think that most of them are so shortsighted. It's more that they know they will be in the league for three years or less so they need as much guarantee as possible. In any event I'm sure Pete Kendall wasn't looking to bling it up with his posse when reporting his contract figures.

what are we disagreeing with, exactly? i said they exist, you said they do not. i win.

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