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Best of THESE young pitchers??

Blackout

By Blackout
in Baseball

Best of these guys?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Best of these guys?

    • Cole Hamels
      4
    • Felix Hernandez
      3
    • Justin Verlander
      10
    • Francisco Liriano
      2
    • Chuck James
      1
    • Scott Kazmir
      0
    • Tim Lincecum
      0
    • Phil Hughes
      4

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
Wrong again as usual. MOST College players who are just trying to get used to pro ball start out in a rookie ball league such as the the NYPL and it's a known fact that only the more advanced college players start out in A+ which (i'll say it again) is considered close to or better than the level of competition of D1 college baseball. If a pitcher dominates A+ and AA like Hughes has, saying he's not as advanced because he's not a college pitcher is completely foolish.

Mike, why do MORE college players reach the majors FASTER than their High School drafted counterparts.

Please explain.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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Wrong again as usual. MOST College players who are just trying to get used to pro ball start out in a rookie ball league such as the the NYPL and it's a known fact that only the more advanced college players start out in A+ which (i'll say it again) is considered close to or better than the level of competition of D1 college baseball. If a pitcher dominates A+ and AA like Hughes has, saying he's not as advanced because he's not a college pitcher is completely foolish.

the article kind of goes against you i think

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madmike1

madmike1

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Mike, why do MORE college players reach the majors FASTER than their High School drafted counterparts.

Please explain.

Easy. Because they are older when the hit the minor leagues and get at least a year or 2 head starts on HS players who have to get through rookie ball and lowA however for a guy like Hughes who has already dominated A+, AA and AAA it's meaningless. He reached the majors faster than many college players from the year he was drafted because he was just that good. He FORCED his promotions with his dominance.
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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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Easy. Because they are older when the hit the minor leagues and get at least a year or 2 head starts on HS players who have to get through rookie ball and lowA however for a guy like Hughes who has already dominated A+, AA and AAA it's meaningless. He reached the majors faster than many college players from the year he was drafted because he was just that good. He FORCED his promotions with his dominance.

They reach the majors faster than HS players they were drafted with, Mike. That is what we are talking about.

Mike, is it easier to pitch in a league with aluminum bats, or wooden bats, just based on that premise?

Mike?

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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They reach the majors faster than HS players they were drafted with, Mike. That is what we are talking about.

Mike, is it easier to pitch in a league with aluminum bats, or wooden bats, just based on that premise?

Mike?

hahahhah

I am telling you SD,, Mike didnt read the article or is in his usual 'I dont care, I will be right come hell or high water' mode..

hahaha,,Mikes answer was so saying he didnt read article

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madmike1

madmike1

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They reach the majors faster than HS players they were drafted with, Mike. That is what we are talking about.

Mike, is it easier to pitch in a league with aluminum bats, or wooden bats, just based on that premise?

Mike?

I was responding to the points about PHIL HUGHES not college players in general vs high school players. Of course the avg college player will reach the majors faster than the avg high school player but there is nothing average about Phil Hughes. And putting him down because he's not a college player couldn't be more idiotic.
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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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I was responding to the points about PHIL HUGHES not college players in general vs high school players. Of course the avg college player will reach the majors faster than the avg high school player but there is nothing average about Phil Hughes. And putting him down because he's not a college player couldn't be more idiotic.

Backpedal, Backpedal.

Why did you tell me I was "wrong as usual" when I clearly stated that I was talking about College players in general, and specifically NOT about Hughes.

Either you can't read well, or are a very poor sport.

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madmike1

madmike1

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Backpedal, Backpedal.

Why did you tell me I was "wrong as usual" when I clearly stated that I was talking about College players in general, and specifically NOT about Hughes.

Either you can't read well, or are a very poor sport.

As usual you are creating an argument for no reason. This is a thread about HUGHES. A poster made a post putting him down, I defended him and you responded to my post defending him. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AVG players. I've been talking about Phil Hughes this entire friggin thread. You're wrong about where most college players start. Thats why you're wrong as usual.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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Go for it. You have zero clout here.

You prove time and again you have some major growing up to do. I realize you are still in Jr. High, but most teens I have seen can handle their anger much better.

You need to realize your obvious shortcomings in respect to baseball knowledge, as opposed to someone like SD.

You just cant compete with the likes of true baseball afficionados. But thats OK,,comic relief is very welcome here, and your lack of anger control provides it to no end.

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madmike1

madmike1

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You prove time and again you have some major growing up to do. I realize you are still in Jr. High, but most teens I have seen can handle their anger much better.

You need to realize your obvious shortcomings in respect to baseball knowledge, as opposed to someone like SD.

You just cant compete with the lies of true baseball afficionados. But thats OK,,comic relief is very welcome here, and your lack of anger control provides it to no end.

It's funny that you're talking down to me like you are so smart yet you can't spell aficionados right. LOL. You sir, are stupid.

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

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As usual you are creating an argument for no reason. This is a tread about HUGHES. A poster made a post putting him down, I defended him and you responded to my post defending him. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AVG players. I've been talking about Phil Hughes this entire friggin thread. You're wrong about where most college players start. Thats why you're wrong as usual.

You are a sad person, Mike.

I was involved in this thread discussing college players vs high school players based on Barton's comment. You never had any comment on that about that subject, until you jumped my post and stated how wrong I was.

then, when you are presented with the reality of the situation, you twist it into your "I was talking only about Hughes BS".

You see an opportunity to flex your internet muscle, for some reason only you know try to tell people how wrong they are, then when it is you that is wrong, run away like a beaten dog rather than owning up.

Mike, you are just plain sad. It is no wonder that almost every last baseball fan (Yankee and other) despise your comments and approach.

This site was so much better when you were not a part of it. MBN, AFJFan and others good baseball fanshave not posted here as much. I can only conclude it is your re-appearance. Just a hunch on my part.

You are not the lone problem on this board. But chief among those. The other Yankee kiddie club refuse to listen to differing opinions.

Consider this a big win for you. I will no longer post on this baseball board. the lunatics have taken over.

Childish on my part, yes I know. But I don't think any sane person should subject themselves to dialoguing with children such as this.

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madmike1

madmike1

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You are a sad person, Mike.

I was involved in this thread discussing college players vs high school players based on Barton's comment. You never had any comment on that about that subject, until you jumped my post and stated how wrong I was.

then, when you are presented with the reality of the situation, you twist it into your "I was talking only about Hughes BS".

You see an opportunity to flex your internet muscle, for some reason only you know try to tell people how wrong they are, then when it is you that is wrong, run away like a beaten dog rather than owning up.

Mike, you are just plain sad. It is no wonder that almost every last baseball fan (Yankee and other) despise your comments and approach.

This site was so much better when you were not a part of it. MBN, AFJFan and others good baseball fanshave not posted here as much. I can only conclude it is your re-appearance. Just a hunch on my part.

You are not the lone problem on this board. But chief among those. The other Yankee kiddie club refuse to listen to differing opinions.

Consider this a big win for you. I will no longer post on this baseball board. the lunatics have taken over.

Childish on my part, yes I know. But I don't think any sane person should subject themselves to dialoguing with children such as this.

bye.

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madmike1

madmike1

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Back to the topic at hand of Phil Hughes. You can't discount his prospect status because he's a HS player. Once he's dominated pro ball the way he has it doesn't matter where he was drafted out of.

As far as Miller, he's still very raw and is only in the majors because he signed a major league contract. If he was in the yankee system there is NO WAY he'd be in the majors right now.

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Barton

Barton

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I am not talking about specific players.

I am talking about generalities, where it is proven that more collegiate players get to teh Majors faster.

Also, College pitchers are more polished than their minor counbterparts.

As teh SJ article also points out, college pitchers may be abused a bit more.

I was responding to the Miller/Hughes comparison and nothing else.

And college pitchers are not more polished than guys who dominate AA. Thats why SJ was WAY OFF when he said Miller was a more legit "convincing" because he dominated ACC ball, than Hughes who dominated AA.

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madmike1

madmike1

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I was responding to the Miller/Hughes comparison and nothing else.

And college pitchers are not more polished than guys who dominate AA. Thats why SJ was WAY OFF when he said Miller was a more legit "convincing" because he dominated ACC ball, than Hughes who dominated AA.

I was saying this exact same thing. Maybe you can understand it the way EB is writing it.

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Barton

Barton

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In the rare case that a college pitcher is more polished than a legit ace in double A who is dominating (think mark prior at USC), that isnt Andrew Miller. He is not a polished pitcher, and not nearly as polished as Hughes.

And thats all we were talking about here: Andrew Miller to Phil Hughes

SJ said Miller was more "convincing" than Phil Hughes because Miller did it in the ACC and Hughes did it double A. So basically SJ is saying ACC competition is tougher and a better gauge of a pitchers ability, than double A.

And that is just wrong. Double AA a huge step above college acc ball, and its not even close. Not even close.

You dont go from college acc ball to the majors, or even to double A.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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In the rare case that a college pitcher is more polished than a legit ace in double A who is dominating (think mark prior at USC), that isnt Andrew Miller. He is not a polished pitcher, and not nearly as polished as Hughes.

And thats all we were talking about here: Andrew Miller to Phil Hughes

SJ said Miller was more "convincing" than Phil Hughes because Miller did it in the ACC and Hughes did it double A. So basically SJ is saying ACC competition is tougher and a better gauge of a pitchers ability, than double A.

And that is just wrong. Double AA a huge step above college acc ball, and its not even close. Not even close.

You dont go from college acc ball to the majors, or even to double A.

I guess the Tigers thought after 3 appearances in A ball, he didnt need that quality AA ball..

The Tigers first-round selection in the June draft, he began his professional career with Single A Lakeland before joining the Tigers for his first major league action...Assigned to Lakeland after signing with the Tigers on August 8 -- appeared in three games for Lakeland, fanning nine batters in five innings...Recalled by the Tigers from Lakeland on August 28...Made his major league debut on August 30 at Yankee Stadium against New York -- worked a scoreless inning of relief in the day game of a day-night doubleheader...

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madmike1

madmike1

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I guess the Tigers thought after 3 appearances in A ball, he didnt need that quality AA ball..

The Tigers first-round selection in the June draft, he began his professional career with Single A Lakeland before joining the Tigers for his first major league action...Assigned to Lakeland after signing with the Tigers on August 8 -- appeared in three games for Lakeland, fanning nine batters in five innings...Recalled by the Tigers from Lakeland on August 28...Made his major league debut on August 30 at Yankee Stadium against New York -- worked a scoreless inning of relief in the day game of a day-night doubleheader...

You're not paying attention to an important fact. He has a MAJOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. If he didn't there is no way he would be in the majors.
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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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You're not paying attention to an important fact. He has a MAJOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. If he didn't there is no way he would be in the majors.

oh thats plain silly,,very silly,,

he is a very very good pitcher who has earned his spot in tigers rotation

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madmike1

madmike1

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oh thats plain silly,,very silly,,

he is a very very good pitcher who has earned his spot in tigers rotation

There are a lot of prospects that could pitch in the majors right now but teams hold them back. Miller is VERY raw and could use a year in the minors.
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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

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There are a lot of prospects that could pitch in the majors right now but teams hold them back. Miller is VERY raw and could use a year in the minors.

well, I think the Tigers are quite happy with his 3-1 , 2.7 ERA..

I guess you dont like his 1.33 whip though,,but what the heck,, just win baby,,:P

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madmike1

madmike1

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well, I think the Tigers are quite happy with his 3-1 , 2.7 ERA..

I guess you dont like his 1.33 whip though,,but what the heck,, just win baby,,:P

I'm not saying he not pitching well. The point is that he's still VERY raw. It's easy to see that he's throwing across his body. Pitchers who are rushed like he has been usually have problems in the long term. It's just a risky move.

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anskyruben

anskyruben

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When the hell was this?

Not long ago. Try 2003. Verlander can go out next week and never get another win in his career. You just never know. Look at a guy like Dwight Gooden. His first 5 years , were pretty much as good , if not better than anyone in ML history. How did he end up ?

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The Troll

The Troll

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Thats not an insane statement. Both those pitchers clearly had hall of fame talent. You can't predict injuries.

No one was putting them in the Hall of Fame, though.

When you lose for 100 straight years, you tend to avoid counting your chickens before they hatch.

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madmike1

madmike1

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No one was putting them in the Hall of Fame, though.

When you lose for 100 straight years, you tend to avoid counting your chickens before they hatch.

No one is putting hughes in the hall of fame. Just like Prior and Wood people see immense talent and upside. Weather or not he's a hall of famer depends on factors that are impossible to foresee.

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