Cashman deserves credit for Johnson deal

[faba]

Third time on the disabled list for Randy- whatever was gotten back for him was a good deal. Injuries and age do not make a good combo.

[SouthernJet]

Third time on the disabled list for Randy- whatever was gotten back for him was a good deal. Injuries and age do not make a good combo.

but zee numbers boss, zee numbers,,heez whip eez so good

[madmike1]

So because a player is hurt, it was a great idea to trade them for noithing? Also Randy has been a well above avg pitcher when he's pitched this year.

[Scott Dierking]

So because a player is hurt, it was a great idea to trade them for noithing? Also Randy has been a well above avg pitcher when he's pitched this year.

"When He's pitched" being the operative words.

When you trade damaged goods, that are expensive, you get little in return. Just the way the world and sports works.

ie Bobby Abreu

[madmike1]

"When He's pitched" being the operative words.

When you trade damaged goods, that are expensive, you get little in return. Just the way the world and sports works.

ie Bobby Abreu

How the hell was Abreu damaged goods? The guy was coming off of 9 great years in a row and he was great at the end of last year. Randy wasn't damaged goods either. He was coming of a 200 IP season with solid numbers. Once again you prove to have no idea what you're talking about.

[Scott Dierking]

How the hell was Abreu damaged goods? The guy was coming off of 9 great years in a row and he was great at the end of last year. Randy wasn't damaged goods either. He was coming of a 200 IP season with solid numbers. Once again you prove to have no idea what you're talking about.

Needing back surgery is NOT damaged goods? Oh, ok, I guess in geeky world, maybe, but not real life baseball.

If you watched Abreu day in and day out like I did in Philly, you woiuld know what my comment was about. He is damaged mentally. He plays head games with himself. It is well known in basball. He also has had a MAJOR decline in power. That is obvious.

[SouthernJet]

Needing back surgery is NOT damaged goods? Oh, ok, I guess in geeky world, maybe, but not real life baseball.

If you watched Abreu day in and day out like I did in Philly, you woiuld know what my comment was about. He is damaged mentally. He plays head games with himself. It is well known in basball. He also has had a MAJOR decline in power. That is obvious.

but he is healthy as hell in MLB Video games

[madmike1]

Needing back surgery is NOT damaged goods? Oh, ok, I guess in geeky world, maybe, but not real life baseball.

If you watched Abreu day in and day out like I did in Philly, you woiuld know what my comment was about. He is damaged mentally. He plays head games with himself. It is well known in basball. He also has had a MAJOR decline in power. That is obvious.

I guess he was fine when he was amazing down the stretch but then "got crazy again" this year when he's 180 points below his career OPS. Anyone who tells you they could've predicted this kind of decline at 33 is crazy.

What you call real life baseball is 1930s ignorance. Johnson has pitched 56 innings of well above avg baseball this year already and that alone makes him more valuable than the crap the yankees got for him. And he'll be back. Even if he only pitches 130-160 innings he'll still be much more valuable than what they got for him.

[Scott Dierking]

but he is healthy as hell in MLB Video games

Yup, His stamina holds up until the 8th inning in X-Box MLB '07, Mike has no idea what we are speaking of.

[Scott Dierking]

I guess he was fine when he was amazing down the stretch but then "got crazy again" this year when he's 180 points below his career OPS. Anyone who tells you they could've predicted this kind of decline at 33 is crazy.

What you call real life baseball is 1930s ignorance. Johnson has pitched 56 innings of well above avg baseball this year already and that alone makes him more valuable than the crap the yankees got for him. And he'll be back. Even if he only pitches 130-160 innings he'll still be much more valuable than what they got for him.

So, You have talked to his doctor. What is the diagnosis?

Wow, 56 innings. As you say often, some sample size there.

[madmike1]

So, You have talked to his doctor. What is the diagnosis?

Wow, 56 innings. As you say often, some sample size there.

In those 56 innings, he's produced more than the 4 players they got for him combined.

[Scott Dierking]

In those 56 innings, he's produced more than the 4 players they got for him combined.

How much do those 4 players players cost the Yankees?

They moved money, which is why they did not get back a Micah Owings, as you wanted.

[madmike1]

How much do those 4 players players cost the Yankees?

They moved money, which is why they did not get back a Micah Owings, as you wanted.

So you agree that the paper wasn't lying about them being able to get Owings lol. The point is that the the yankees are penny wise and dollar foolish.

[faba]

Just the fact to reduce the payroll with an inflated salary was a win for the Yankees.

[Scott Dierking]

So you agree that the paper wasn't lying about them being able to get Owings lol. The point is that the the yankees are penny wise and dollar foolish.

I never said whether they could or couldn't get Micah Owings.

I am sure that Steinbrenner will be glad that YOU can manage his money better than him.

Afterall, he is a shipping magnate, and as parlayed that into owning the most valuable sport franchise in the world. And, you are a blowhard, who spouts his ill conceived opinions on a sports forum and is afraid to admit when he is wrong.

Yeah, I can see why the Yankees are so foolish and you are so right.

Everything needs to be about Madmike and stroking his fragile ego.

BTW-This is the part where you need to wish death upon me or some member of my family.

Sore loser.

[madmike1]

I never said whether they could or couldn't get Micah Owings.

I am sure that Steinbrenner will be glad that YOU can manage his money better than him.

Afterall, he is a shipping magnate, and as parlayed that into owning the most valuable sport franchise in the world. And, you are a blowhard, who spouts his ill conceived opinions on a sports forum and is afraid to admit when he is wrong.

Yeah, I can see why the Yankees are so foolish and you are so right.

Everything needs to be about Madmike and stroking his fragile ego.

BTW-This is the part where you need to wish death upon me or some member of my family.

Sore loser.

And you (being short on knowledge of this subject) resort back to "You're not the owner or GM so you have no right to an opinion." If someone resorts to that you know they have no real argument.

[Scott Dierking]

And you (being short on knowledge of this subject) resort back to "You're not the owner or GM so you have no right to an opinion." If someone resorts to that you know they have no real argument.

So Mike, You don't think this deal was about the Yankees (for once) dumping salary?

You think that in exchange for them getting off the hook for 14 million or so, they would accept marginal prospects back?

Are you really that naive? Your team has been on teh other side of these types of deals for over a decade.

Wake up young lad, wake up. This is baseball economics.

[madmike1]

So Mike, You don't think this deal was about the Yankees (for once) dumping salary?

You think that in exchange for them getting off the hook for 14 million or so, they would accept marginal prospects back?

Are you really that naive? Your team has been on teh other side of these types of deals for over a decade.

Wake up young lad, wake up. This is baseball economics.

Well, 1930s baseball knowledge, the trade was about about misjudging the players they were getting back. They were wrong about them, I was right.

[Scott Dierking]

Well, 1930s baseball knowledge, the trade was about about misjudging the players they were getting back. They were wrong about them, I was right.

Memo to Mike-When teams "wash" cash through a deal, to empty payroll, they do not get a lot in return.

You may think you know some things, but it is obvious that you don't know a lot.

If you think "economic" trades were done in teh '30's you are more naive than I thought. It is a recent phenomonon.

EDIT-And I will add, when you wash cash with a player requiring back surgery, you get LESS

[madmike1]

Memo to Mike-When teams "wash" cash through a deal, to empty payroll, they do not get a lot in return.

You may think you know some things, but it is obvious that you don't know a lot.

If you think "economic" trades were done in teh '30's you are more naive than I thought. It is a recent phenomonon.

Teams dump payroll and get good prospects in return ALL the time. Cashman just chose the wrong prospects.

[Scott Dierking]

Teams dump payroll and get good prospects in return ALL the time. Cashman just chose the wrong prospects.

The Yankees chose to NOT give more payroll than they give.

When you do that, you get run of the mill prospects. If they wanted to get more in return, they needed to cougfh up some more dollars in trading an aging, injured pitcher.

Very simple.

Mike-What trades have YOU successfully engineered in baseball. Please give your credentiaials in comparison to Brian Cashman.

[madmike1]

The Yankees chose to NOT give more payroll than they give.

When you do that, you get run of the mill prospects. If they wanted to get more in return, they needed to cougfh up some more dollars in trading an aging, injured pitcher.

Very simple.

Mike-What trades have YOU successfully engineered in baseball. Please give your credentiaials in comparison to Brian Cashman.

LOL. not this again.

Again if you are right the yankees are foolish. The value of a young pitcher like Micah Owings in trade and in performance is more than the money they saved.

[Scott Dierking]

LOL. not this again.

Again if you are right the yankees are foolish. The value of a young pitcher like Micah Owings in trade and in performance is more than the money they saved.

You see Mike that is the thing, and you just fail to realize or understand it.

WE DON'T KNOW. We are privy to about 5% of what takes place on the inner workings of a baseball team and how it is run and what their options are.

That is why, you sitting back saying "I AM RIGHT, I AM RIGHT" is so damn pompous.

We don't know. It is not that simple. We don't have all of the variables. You have no idea of what pressures Cashman was under to shed payroll. We don't know that. We don't know what other offers were there. We don't know. We don't know how much latitude the team had in taking more of Johnson's payroll this year. We don't know.

For you to go around chest thumping and brow beating people because yours is a differnt opinion based on something we all know very little about is really quite foolish. You kinsd of admitted it yourself Of course, you will back away from that now.

[madmike1]

You see Mike that is the thing, and you just fail to realize or understand it.

WE DON'T KNOW. We are privy to about 5% of what takes place on the inner workings of a baseball team and how it is run and what their options are.

That is why, you sitting back saying "I AM RIGHT, I AM RIGHT" is so damn pompous.

We don't know. It is not that simple. We don't have all of the variables. You have no idea of what pressures Cashman was under to shed payroll. We don't know that. We don't know what other offers were there. We don't know. We don't know how much latitude the team had in taking more of Johnson's payroll this year. We don't know.

For you to go around chest thumping and brow beating people because yours is a differnt opinion based on something we all know very little about is really quite foolish. You kinsd of admitted it yourself Of course, you will back away from that now.

A GM shedding payroll doesn't give 45 year olds 19 million dollars for 4 months. The yankees have the money to do whatever they want and they misjudged the value of Johnson and the players they were getting.

[Scott Dierking]

A GM shedding payroll doesn't give 45 year olds 19 million dollars for 4 months. The yankees have the money to do whatever they want and they misjudged the value of Johnson and the players they were getting.

The Yankees were the ONLY team to lose money last year.

You can be pretty darn sure that they developed a "discretionary" budget that they could spend for extravaganzes for 2007 in-season needs. Roger Clemens oamong those.

Stop pretending like you have all the answers for what goes on behind closed doors, just to support your lame theories.

You play doctor, GM and stargazer all at once. It really is a boorish act.

[madmike1]

The Yankees were the ONLY team to lose money last year.

You can be pretty darn sure that they developed a "discretionary" budget that they could spend for extravaganzes for 2007 in-season needs. Roger Clemens oamong those.

Stop pretending like you have all the answers for what goes on behind closed doors, just to support your lame theories.

You play doctor, GM and stargazer all at once. It really is a boorish act.

The yankees don't lose money. They could have a 500 million dollar payroll and would still make money because of YES. So once again you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

And if they thought that giving clemens 19 million was a good move but giving a few million to get a 24 year old with value was a bad move, they are stupid.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

A GM shedding payroll doesn't give 45 year olds 19 million dollars for 4 months. The yankees have the money to do whatever they want and they misjudged the value of Johnson and the players they were getting.

Even with your rose-colored Yankee glasses on, you can't possibly believe that this was a bad deal for the Yankees.

Maybe statistics tell you this was a bad deal, but everyone in baseball knew that the Yanks had to move Johnson. He didn't want to be there and everyone, except you, knew that. And when everyone knows that, you don't get nearly as much as you normally would.

I'm actually surprised that he got anything of value for the Eunuch, given the circumstances.

And if you're talking about 1930s evaluation as when people actually WATCHED players instead of cranking numbers through a computer, I'll take that approach every time. Personally, I'll take Omar Minaya or Cashman over Billy Beane or Paul DePodesta every time.

[Scott Dierking]

The yankees don't lose money. They could have a 500 million dollar payroll and would still make money because of YES. So once again you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

And, obviously, you know more than FORTUNE magazine and their report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-teamvalues&prov=ap&type=lgns

[madmike1]

Even with your rose-colored Yankee glasses on, you can't possibly believe that this was a bad deal for the Yankees.

Maybe statistics tell you this was a bad deal, but everyone in baseball knew that the Yanks had to move Johnson. He didn't want to be there and everyone, except you, knew that. And when everyone knows that, you don't get nearly as much as you normally would.

I'm actually surprised that he got anything of value for the Eunuch, given the circumstances.

And if you're talking about 1930s evaluation as when people actually WATCHED players instead of cranking numbers through a computer, I'll take that approach every time. Personally, I'll take Omar Minaya or Cashman over Billy Beane or Paul DePodesta every time.

How the hell do I have yankee colored glasses? I've been bashing them for this move for MONTHS. Beane or DePosdesta are both great GM's BTW.

[madmike1]

And, obviously, you know more than FORTUNE magazine and their report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-teamvalues&prov=ap&type=lgns

That list doesn't include the YES revenue. (Which has been gone over many many many many times.) It even says that in your stupid article.

"Franchise values did not include provisions for television networks owned in whole or part by teams, such as the YES Network (Yankees), NESN (Red Sox) and Comcast SportsNetChicago (Cubs), Forbes associate editor Kurt Badenhausen said."

[SouthernJet]

That list doesn't include the YES revenue. (Which has been gone over many many many many times.) It even says that in your stupid article.

"Franchise values did not include provisions for television networks owned in whole or part by teams, such as the YES Network (Yankees), NESN (Red Sox) and Comcast SportsNetChicago (Cubs), Forbes associate editor Kurt Badenhausen said."

Losing money on operating budgets and valuation are two different subjects..

you can own a 5 million dollar historic movie house, but still lose money

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

How the hell do I have yankee colored glasses? I've been bashing them for this move for MONTHS. Beane or DePosdesta are both great GM's BTW.

DePodesta was so great the Dodgers fired him after 1 year. Beane hasn't won anything in Oakland, hasn't even made a WS. Would that performance be acceptable to Yankee fans?

Rose-colored in that you seem to feel that the Yanks can get whoever and whatever they want an any time from any other team. The days of them using Kansas City as their AAAA farm team are long gone.

I have no proof for this, it's just my opinion, but it looks to me that other teams won't deal with the Yanks unless there is no one else to partner with. Increasingly, the Yanks have had to turn to free agents and homegrown talent to address their needs. I give Cashman credit for this, but it takes a long time for the scenario to bear fruit.

[madmike1]

DePodesta was so great the Dodgers fired him after 1 year. Beane hasn't won anything in Oakland, hasn't even made a WS. Would that performance be acceptable to Yankee fans?

Rose-colored in that you seem to feel that the Yanks can get whoever and whatever they want an any time from any other team. The days of them using Kansas City as their AAAA farm team are long gone.

I have no proof for this, it's just my opinion, but it looks to me that other teams won't deal with the Yanks unless there is no one else to partner with. Increasingly, the Yanks have had to turn to free agents and homegrown talent to address their needs. I give Cashman credit for this, but it takes a long time for the scenario to bear fruit.

DePodesta made good move after good move in LA. Him being fired was a joke.

As far as Beane, I guess winning 95+ games every year with a bottom third payroll is nothing...

Teams make payroll for prospects trades ALL THE TIME and get good value. I'm not out of my mind to expect that.

[Scott Dierking]

That list doesn't include the YES revenue. (Which has been gone over many many many many times.) It even says that in your stupid article.

"Franchise values did not include provisions for television networks owned in whole or part by teams, such as the YES Network (Yankees), NESN (Red Sox) and Comcast SportsNetChicago (Cubs), Forbes associate editor Kurt Badenhausen said."

We are talking strictly operating expenses.

Do I think that the Yankees lose money? Of course not. But, in comparison to thers, in equal footing, they spend much much more. So much that the opertaing side of the business is turned upside down.

They have a budget Mike. Johnson's deal included budeget provisions. Get over it.

[madmike1]

We are talking strictly operating expenses.

Do I think that the Yankees lose money? Of course not. But, in comparison to thers, in equal footing, they spend much much more. So much that the opertaing side of the business is turned upside down.

They have a budget Mike. Johnson's deal included budeget provisions. Get over it.

If they have a budget they misused their resources thats why they are under 500 in july. Either way they did a bad job.