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SouthernJet

What high priced player could Yanks/Mets have done without?

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Or numbers can help open minded people see that these old baseball myths really don't have any value...

I agree that numbers can help project future achievements. But they are not the be all end all.

Managers often make a move based on a 'hunch'. Can you quantify a hunch?

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I guess if someone makes a point you cant refute, you revert to personal attacks.

Nice baseball talk.

LOL @ point I can't refute. I have real data and years of other people's work that agree with me. You have your 1930's baseball IQ and old wives tales.

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LOL @ point I can't refute. I have real data and years of other people's work that agree with me. You have your 1930's baseball IQ and old wives tales.

Show us the real data Mike. Demonstrate and prove your point.

Mike, do some players think through their position better when they are the field.

Yes or no?

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Mike, do some players think through their position better when they are the field.

Yes or no?

If CATCHERS do it has no real impact on the outcomes of games.

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Because torre is stupid, posada needs a rest or the yankees punted a roster spot. It's usually one of those.

So it has nothing to do with the fact that Mussina feels more comfortable with Nieves calling the game than Posada?

Don't you feel it's kind of a coincidence that Posada needs a "rest" whenever Mussina's spot in the rotation comes around?

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So it has nothing to do with the fact that Mussina feels more comfortable with Nieves calling the game than Posada?

Don't you feel it's kind of a coincidence that Posada needs a "rest" whenever Mussina's spot in the rotation comes around?

See who catches Mussina tomorrow. It won't be Nieves.

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If you are so smart why are you a late 30's old timer with nothing better to do than to post on a message board all day? Pathetic. At least when i post it's usually from a classroom where I'm doing something with my life...

You are doing something with your life as you post on a messageboard during class?

I also didn't realize you were in class at 1 or 2 in the morning as I have seen many of your posts occur after midnight.

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I didn't realize you were in class at 1 or 2 in the morning. I've seen a lot of posts from you after midnight.

Common sense not your strong suit? Of course 100% of my posts aren't from a classroom.

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Common sense not your strong suit? Of course 100% of my posts aren't from a classroom.

You said you usually post from a classroom and common sense is something you shouldn't comment on.

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If you are so smart why are you a late 30's old timer with nothing better to do than to post on a message board all day? Pathetic. At least when i post it's usually from a classroom where I'm doing something with my life...

Doing something? Like not learning? Isn't that what you're supposed to be in class for?

I'm sure mommy and daddy are thrilled that you're throwing their money away. They are your personal Steinbrenner.

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BTW when people publish these studies they don't do it for free. They need to make a living too. The one i'm refering to is in this book. http://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Between-Numbers-Prospectus-Experts/dp/0465005969

Not that you would ever want to learn anything more than what your 1930's baseball IQ tells you.

Would you care to elaborate, or just show pictures of pretty books?

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If you are so smart why are you a late 30's old timer with nothing better to do than to post on a message board all day? Pathetic. At least when i post it's usually from a classroom where I'm doing something with my life...

Ahh, damaged Yankee ego...

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Hmmmmm.....Loook what I found in Baseball Prospectus, Mike's bible.LOL

One of the great remaining unknowns in sabermetrics is the true defensive impact of the catcher. What few commonly available stats we do have to deal with peripheral defensive responsibilities like passed balls and throwing out basestealers. Yet most knowledgeable observers believe that the aspect of the catcher's job that has the most impact is his game-calling, that is, his ability to work with pitchers and help them throw more effectively. The cumulative effect of game-calling is potentially huge. For example, a catcher who catches 130 games a year, and who may reduce the ERA's of his pitchers by just a quarter of a run (0.25) is worth 32.5 runs defensively -- a figure that ranks up there with the top shortstops and outfielders in the league. Yet there have been no satisfyingly thorough attempts to quantify this presumably crucial aspect of run prevention.

Mike?

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Hmmmmm.....Loook what I found in Baseball Prospectus, Mike's bible.LOL

One of the great remaining unknowns in sabermetrics is the true defensive impact of the catcher. What few commonly available stats we do have to deal with peripheral defensive responsibilities like passed balls and throwing out basestealers. Yet most knowledgeable observers believe that the aspect of the catcher's job that has the most impact is his game-calling, that is, his ability to work with pitchers and help them throw more effectively. The cumulative effect of game-calling is potentially huge. For example, a catcher who catches 130 games a year, and who may reduce the ERA's of his pitchers by just a quarter of a run (0.25) is worth 32.5 runs defensively -- a figure that ranks up there with the top shortstops and outfielders in the league. Yet there have been no satisfyingly thorough attempts to quantify this presumably crucial aspect of run prevention.

Mike?

Well done! I can't wait to read mikes spin on this.

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I got to agree that mike's wrong on this one. Its common sense that what pitches are thrown will affect how an at bat goes. Logically, some catchers are going to be better at calling games than others.

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I got to agree that mike's wrong on this one. Its common sense that what pitches are thrown will affect how an at bat goes. Logically, some catchers are going to be better at calling games than others.

There are no tangible stats to back up the argument so obviously catchers are useless :)

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Hmmmmm.....Loook what I found in Baseball Prospectus, Mike's bible.LOL

One of the great remaining unknowns in sabermetrics is the true defensive impact of the catcher. What few commonly available stats we do have to deal with peripheral defensive responsibilities like passed balls and throwing out basestealers. Yet most knowledgeable observers believe that the aspect of the catcher's job that has the most impact is his game-calling, that is, his ability to work with pitchers and help them throw more effectively. The cumulative effect of game-calling is potentially huge. For example, a catcher who catches 130 games a year, and who may reduce the ERA's of his pitchers by just a quarter of a run (0.25) is worth 32.5 runs defensively -- a figure that ranks up there with the top shortstops and outfielders in the league. Yet there have been no satisfyingly thorough attempts to quantify this presumably crucial aspect of run prevention.

Mike?

Yes unknown IE there is no proof that such a skill exists. I never said anything other than that. I never claimed to know the final word. You just put those words in my mouth as usual.

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Yes unknown IE there is no proof that such a skill exists. I never said anything other than that. I never claimed to know the final word. You just put those words in my mouth as usual.

Unknonwn in that you can't put a number to it.

I repeat from the article "Yet most knowledgeable baseball observers believe the aspect of the catcher's job that has the most imapct is the game calling"

Hmmmm

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Unknonwn in that you can't put a number to it.

I repeat from the article "Yet most knowledgeable baseball observers believe the aspect of the catcher's job that has the most imapct is the game calling"

Hmmmm

BP then goes on to show that there is no proof that such a skill exists.

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Yes unknown IE there is no proof that such a skill exists. I never said anything other than that. I never claimed to know the final word. You just put those words in my mouth as usual.

There is proof that such a skill exists. It's called pitchers saying that certain catchers know what pitches should be thrown.

I lean toward players comments more than statistical analysis.

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Like I said. It's in that book.

Let me get this right. You will take the opinion of a book over actual major league pitchers.

That sums up why none of us on this board take you seriously.

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Even if it is in the book, what makes them more right than others?

It is just one set of opinion.

It's a set of opinion based on mountains of data, not 1930's baseball wives tales.

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Let me get this right. You will take the opinion of a book over actual major league pitchers.

That sums up why none of us on this board take you seriously.

I will take the opinion of people who do extensive research on this for a living over one guys opinion even if they are a major leaguer.

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I will take the opinion of people who do extensive research on this for a living over one guys opinion even if they are a major leaguer.

You are a fraud, plain and true.

Even when faced with evidence that you are wrong, you still deny, deny, deny.

Really a fraud, with no credibility.

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I will take the opinion of people who do extensive research on this for a living over one guys opinion even if they are a major leaguer.

Are you kidding me? You will take the side of some number cruncher over guys that actually play the game? Unreal.

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You are a fraud, plain and true.

Even when faced with evidence that you are wrong, you still deny, deny, deny.

Really a fraud, with no credibility.

You are an old man who is set in his ways and who is threatened by anyone who is trying to gain more knowledge about a subject than the wives tales you have relied on in your narrow experience.

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Are you kidding me? You will take the side of some number cruncher over guys that actually play the game? Unreal.

That amount of data takes into account MUCH more than the narrow experience of one player. I'm sure there are players who have different opinions on all kinds of different subjects.

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You are an old man who is set in his ways and who is threatened by anyone who is trying to gain more knowledge about a subject than the wives tales you have relied on in your narrow experience.

There were experts that believed the world was flat once, also.

You have yet to prove anything on this point.

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I don't know how I put myself in the position of trying to defend sabermetrics against idiots. I don't really feel like doing this anymore.

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You are an old man who is set in his ways and who is threatened by anyone who is trying to gain more knowledge about a subject than the wives tales you have relied on in your narrow experience.

There you go again with your, "I have more knowledge about baseball" because I bring up stats crap.

Do you actually watch the games or is your head firmly placed in Bill James' arse?

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