Moss update

[joebabyny]

Maybe you missed it but his contract with the Oakland had him being paid just under 9 million this year, he could have easily stayed for his full contract but instead took a 6 million dollar pay cut to be traded to New England and New England only.

He was traded, he gave up nothing, he was not a free agent. The Pats were able to get him cheap both in terms of contract and in what they gave up in trade to the raiders. Now, if you show me another team who was willing to trade and pay him significantly more then the pats, that may mean something, but it means nothing with how much he was due to make from the team that TRADED HIM.

[shasta]

You do know that he was TRADED to New England. He still could've been sent to Green Bay, the Jets or whomever else if they brought more to the table and actually wanted him. The only men in Green Bay and New York that actually wanted Moss were the Quarterbacks and both franchises ignored their Quarterbacks.

He will flourish in New England because he does not have to carry the offense, but its not like he had a choice. It was New England or stay in Oakland.

You do know that he would only restructure his contract for the Patriots, that's why Green Bay was out of the picture right?

[joebabyny]

You do know that he would only restructure his contract for the Patriots, that's why Green Bay was out of the picture right?

But that is different then your original remark that he took 6 million less to go to the pats. By saying that you are implying to us that someone actually wanted to trade for him and was actually offering 6 million more. And obviously if the pats and green bay are offering my pretty much the same deal, i am going with the pats because they are a better team with better upside, but do you think if Green Bay offered 40% more money he would have walked on them? doubtful.

Dude, I am all for debate, but what you originally said was just disingenuous.

[shasta]

The Raiders got a 4 for him. Are you crazy? Do you really think they would'nt have cut him rather than pay him 9 mil. In fact they would have paid him to leave. The same as the Vikings would have. You'll be dying to get rid of him soon as well.

Maybe you missed the fact that under Moss's existing contract the Raiders couldn't afford to cut him because of the cap hit. The Raiders traded him for a 4th because thats all the Patriots would give them, and the Patriots were the only team Moss would restructure his contract for. The Raiders took the deal because it was the only way they would get cap help. You do watch football don't you?

[PFSIKH]

He was traded, he gave up nothing, he was not a free agent. The Pats were able to get him cheap both in terms of contract and in what they gave up in trade to the raiders. Now, if you show me another team who was willing to trade and pay him significantly more then the pats, that may mean something, but it means nothing with how much he was due to make from the team that TRADED HIM.

That is not entirely true.

The Patriots' stipulation, like with the Corey Dillon trade, he had to agree to a restructuring of his contract before the Patriots would trade for him. If Randy said no that stipulation, he would be a Packer or still a Rai-duh.

[joebabyny]

That is not entirely true.

The Patriots' stipulation, like with the Corey Dillon trade, he had to agree to a restructuring of his contract before the Patriots would trade for him. If Randy said no that stipulation, he would be a Packer or still a Rai-duh.

No, if randy said no to that stipulation he would likely have been cut. The raiders didn't want him, it was obvious by the 4th rounder they took for him, and the packers were not showing him the money either. He would have been cut and most likely been a free agent with offers in line with the pats.

[shasta]

No, if randy said no to that stipulation he would likely have been cut. The raiders didn't want him, it was obvious by the 4th rounder they took for him, and the packers were not showing him the money either. He would have been cut and most likely been a free agent with offers in line with the pats.

Maybe you should do some research before you make claims that are just outright stupid. If you read this next line real slow, maybe you'll understand it, "THE RAIDERS COULD NOT TAKE THE CAP HIT IF THEY CUT MOSS, THEY NEEDED TO TRADE HIM TO A TEAM THAT HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT TO GO TO". You can make things up all you like but the reality is that, the nut bag AL Davis was seeking two 1st round picks for Randy just a month before the DRAFT!!! The Raiders where in a bad place, they didn't want to keep him, couldn't cut him, and couldn't get anyone give up much for him at his contract level. That's were it came down to Randy, he said it before the trade and he said it after the trade, New England was the only team he would restructure his contract to go to. Now the green with envy little Jet fans can run around and pretend it isn't true but the fact is Moss wanted to play for Tom Brady & the Patriots, not the weak armed little girl that plays for the Jets.

[joebabyny]

Maybe you should do some research before you make claims that are just outright stupid. If you read this next line real slow, maybe you'll understand it, "THE RAIDERS COULD NOT TAKE THE CAP HIT IF THEY CUT MOSS, THEY NEEDED TO TRADE HIM TO A TEAM THAT HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT TO GO TO". You can make things up all you like but the reality is that, the nut bag AL Davis was seeking two 1st round picks for Randy just a month before the DRAFT!!! The Raiders where in a bad place, they didn't want to keep him, couldn't cut him, and couldn't get anyone give up much for him at his contract level. That's were it came down to Randy, he said it before the trade and he said it after the trade, New England was the only team he would restructure his contract to go to. Now the green with envy little Jet fans can run around and pretend it isn't true but the fact is Moss wanted to play for Tom Brady & the Patriots, not the weak armed little girl that plays for the Jets.

Raiders send Moss to Patriots

Oakland cut ties with Randy Moss after two unproductive seasons, sending the former Pro Bowl receiver to New England today for a fourth-round draft pick.

Associated Press

Last update: April 29, 2007

[EM31]

Maybe you should do some research before you make claims that are just outright stupid. If you read this next line real slow, maybe you'll understand it, "THE RAIDERS COULD NOT TAKE THE CAP HIT IF THEY CUT MOSS, THEY NEEDED TO TRADE HIM TO A TEAM THAT HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT TO GO TO". You can make things up all you like but the reality is that, the nut bag AL Davis was seeking two 1st round picks for Randy just a month before the DRAFT!!! The Raiders where in a bad place, they didn't want to keep him, couldn't cut him, and couldn't get anyone give up much for him at his contract level. That's were it came down to Randy, he said it before the trade and he said it after the trade, New England was the only team he would restructure his contract to go to. Now the green with envy little Jet fans can run around and pretend it isn't true but the fact is Moss wanted to play for Tom Brady & the Patriots, not the weak armed little girl that plays for the Jets.

If it turns out you are incorrect here Shasta will you come back and freely admit to

(a) Being insufficiently well researched poster, or

( "Outright stupid", or

© A non-reader of "real" lines, or

(d) An non-understander of same, or

(e) A maker-up of chit, or

(f) An imperfect arbiter of reality, or

(g) ALL OF THE ABOVE IN CAPS

Because my understanding of the way the cap works is that the cost to trade and the cost to cut are identical in terms of unamaortized signing bonus money. In what way do you claim the Raiders could not afford to cut him but could afford to trade him?

[joebabyny]

If it turns out you are incorrect here Shasta will you come back and freely admit to

(a) Being insufficiently well researched poster

( "Outright stupid"

© A non-reader of real lines.

(d) An non-understander of same.

(e) A maker-up of chit

(f) An imperfect arbiter of reality.

(g) ALL OF THE ABOVE IN CAPS

Because my understanding of the way the cap works is that the cost to trade and the cost to cut are identical in terms of unamaortized signing bonus money. In what way do you claim the Raiders could not afford to cut him but could afford to trade him?

ummmm, i think EM31 is right..........

When Does It Cost More to Cut a Player Than to Keep Him?

Maybe you are looking at the teams in serious cap trouble - and wondering which difference-maker players may be released on Thursday. Just don't expect the Washington Redskins' Lavar Arrington to be one of those players. Oh, Arrington is a serious salary cap albatross for the Redskins, as he is set to count a little over $12 M against their 2006 cap total. But by releasing him (or even trading him) on Thursday, the Skins would take an even bigger cap hit.

How so? Well, the remainder of his unamortized signing bonus money would immediately hit the cap upon his release. For 2006 alone that figure is $5.1 M. The good news is that 2006 represents the final year of a multiple signing bonus proration. The bad news is that there is still almost $2.6M in proration in each year from 2007-2009. That's the money that accelerates against the cap if the Redskins decide to cut or trade Lavar. If you do the math quickly, you'll observe that this figure comes out to be something close to $12.9 M. Thus, it would cost almost $900K more against the cap to cut or trade Lavar than it would to keep him on the roster in 2006.

What else can the Redskins do to make Arrington's cap number more palatable, you ask? Not much I am afraid. For years we have talked about the Redskins' "mortgaging their future" - and the chickens have finally come home to roost.

I've already mentioned the $5.1M, which represents the annual proration of the guaranteed signing bonus money that Arrington has received over the years. Well, that figure cannot be removed from the Redskins' books in 2006 - no matter what they do. Indeed, that figure hits the cap even if Arrington is not with the team in 2006.

[Garb]

Raiders send Moss to Patriots

Oakland cut ties with Randy Moss after two unproductive seasons, sending the former Pro Bowl receiver to New England today for a fourth-round draft pick.

Associated Press

Last update: April 29, 2007

[joebabyny]

This article does not dispute Shasta's assertion that: "THE RAIDERS COULD NOT TAKE THE CAP HIT IF THEY CUT MOSS, THEY NEEDED TO TRADE HIM TO A TEAM THAT HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT TO GO TO."

Get it?

Shasta's assertion was that Randy took 6 million dollars less then others were offering because he wanted to play for the Pats.

Get it?

[gangreenman]

Please, Moss said something nice about a struggling x-teamate thats all. When push came to shove Moss took a 6 mill paycut to come play with Brady. Nice try.

Oh, so thats why he said that "Chad was the best QB to ever pass him the ball" TWICE last year??

[Garb]

Quick! Why does EM have a better grip on the NFL Cap system than Shasta? Ooooh! Oooh! I know!!! EM's a Jets fan! Yeah!

[joebabyny]

Quick! Why does EM have a better grip on the NFL Cap system than Shasta? Ooooh! Oooh! I know!!! EM's a Jets fan! Yeah!

He is also in possession of the facts on the cap, that might help a little in addition to him being a jets fan, what do i know though.

[Garb]

He is also in possession of the facts on the cap, that might help a little in addition to him being a jets fan, what do i know though.

EM stated it is... "as he understands it,"....not as fact.

Reading comprehension, yo! That should get you some negative rep, yo!

LOL!

[joebabyny]

EM stated it is... "as he understands it,"....not as fact.

Reading comprehension, yo! That should get you some negative rep, yo!

LOL!

Maybe if you read the posts i made right after EM's you would see where I did some legwork and found that yes he is correct in his understanding.

When the chick reads the posts, she can comment on my comprehension. yo

[NY'sStepchild]

Notice how Shasta made himself scarce, once he was made the fool. just like he did on JI

[EM31]

EM stated it is... "as he understands it,"....not as fact.

Reading comprehension, yo! That should get you some negative rep, yo!

LOL!

Garb.

I get my information here amongst other places (a handy link to bookmark if you ever need to assay some hot air).

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

The cost to cut and the cost to trade are exactly the same as far as signing bonus is concerned. Signing bonus monies are not "trade-able" and so any signing bonus unaccounted for goes onto the books of the team getting rid of the player (the Raiders) in that same year REGARDLESS OF WHTHER THEY CUT HIM OR THEY TRADE HIM.

(There is a June 1st exception to this rule which does not apply here and which does not support Shasta's position anyway. Because the Raiders could have taken the cap over two years if they chose. It is a non issue anyway since all this took place before June 1st but if is hadn't then theoretically it would have been cheaper for the raiders to Cut him than trade him).

Future years are not Guaranteed in NFL contracts no matter who you are, so while Randy Moss may have had a contract which said he was due to recieve the contents of fort Knox in 2007, if the Raiders did not want to pay that salary they had the choice to either cut him or to trade him. Eating his signing bonus in both cases. One of these courses of action yielded a pick and one did not. But the cap hit of either was the same to the Raiders.

Now, if the trade had simply happened without any renegotiation, then the Pats would be on the hook for the contents of Fort Knox unless they cut him and owed him nothing. Since the Pats had given up a pick to get Moss they needed to be assured that he would rework his "Fort Knox" salary down to a more reasonable level before the trade went through.

So.... Shasta's UPPERCASE screed that the Raiders could not afford the cap hit to cut him which was why they needed to trade him does not make sense and is probably made up out of whole cloth.

[Gainzo]

Garb.

I get my information here amongst other places (a handy link to bookmark if you ever need to assay some hot air).

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

The cost to cut and the cost to trade are exactly the same as far as signing bonus is concerned. Signing bonus monies are not "trade-able" and so any signing bonus unaccounted for goes onto the books of the team getting rid of the player (the Raiders) in that same year REGARDLESS OF WHTHER THEY CUT HIM OR THEY TRADE HIM.

(There is a June 1st exception to this rule which does not apply here and which does not support Shasta's position anyway. Because the Raiders could have taken the cap over two years if they chose. It is a non issue anyway since all this took place before June 1st but if is hadn't then theoretically it would have been cheaper for the raiders to Cut him than trade him).

Future years are not Guaranteed in NFL contracts no matter who you are, so while Randy Moss may have had a contract which said he was due to recieve the contents of fort Knox in 2007, if the Raiders did not want to pay that salary they had the choice to either cut him or to trade him. Eating his signing bonus in both cases. One of these courses of action yielded a pick and one did not. But the cap hit of either was the same to the Raiders.

Now, if the trade had simply happened without any renegotiation, then the Pats would be on the hook for the contents of Fort Knox unless they cut him and owed him nothing. Since the Pats had given up a pick to get Moss they needed to be assured that he would rework his "Fort Knox" salary down to a more reasonable level before the trade went through.

So.... Shasta's UPPERCASE screed that the Raiders could not afford the cap hit to cut him which was why they needed to trade him does not make sense and is probably made up out of whole cloth.

shasta certainly dug a hole for himself in this thread.

[joebabyny]

shasta certainly dug a hole for himself in this thread.

And Garb by extension replying a few times to me. The funny thing is, she started in AFTER i posted the facts of the matter that debunked shasta, lol.

Could it be this will chase Shasta away BEFORE the season even starts? That would be quicker then his escape from JI, lol.

[Gainzo]

Could it be this will chase Shasta away BEFORE the season even starts? That would be quicker then his escape from JI, lol.

I doubt it.

[PFSIKH]

No, if randy said no to that stipulation he would likely have been cut. The raiders didn't want him, it was obvious by the 4th rounder they took for him, and the packers were not showing him the money either. He would have been cut and most likely been a free agent with offers in line with the pats.

If I am not mistaken, one of the reasons Brett Far--vre was pissed was because the Packers offered a better monetary deal to Randy then the Patriots.

[EM31]

I thought Shasta was female.

[joebabyny]

If I am not mistaken, one of the reasons Brett Far--vre was pissed was because the Packers offered a better monetary deal to Randy then the Patriots.

6 million better??? That is what shasta was implying.

Why would anyone play for GB over the Pats unless the money was significantly more.

[joebabyny]

If I am not mistaken, one of the reasons Brett Far--vre was pissed was because the Packers offered a better monetary deal to Randy then the Patriots.

you may be mistaken

Trade to the Patriots

On April 29, 2007, the Raiders agreed to a trade with the New England Patriots, sending Moss to Foxborough, Massachusetts in exchange for a fourth-round selection, the 110th overall, in the 2007 NFL Draft (the same selection the Patriots acquired from San Francisco during day one of the draft).[8] Moss agreed to restructure his contract with the Patriots. There were rumors during the 2007 NFL Draft that the Patriots and the Green Bay Packers were the only two teams that Moss was willing to play for and still restructure his contract. Once the trade was completed, it was reported that Moss restructured his contract from the 2 year/$20 million he had on the remainder of his current deal, to a 1 year/$3 million agreement. The difference between the Packers offer and the Patriots offer was whether or not the money would be guaranteed. The Patriots were willing to guarantee the deal while the Packers balked at this clause.

This lead to Packer QB, Brett Favre criticizing his organization their decision regarding Moss's contract. Favre believed that by acquring a player of Randy Moss's skill, it would offset the loss of running back, Ahman Green and give Green Bay a better chance at winning a championship. It was rumored that he had requested a trade from the team. Favre later denied asking any question of that nature.[9]

[EM31]

<Bump>

I was a little worried that Shasta could lose track of the thread if it got merged into the pack. (I am sure the reply when it comes will be "well considered" given the amount of time Shasta is spending on it).

Oh, and also that there might be one or two posters on the planet who may not have had a chance to benefit from Shasta's "wisdom".

That probably makes me a bad person.

[K2C]

Do you even watch football????

In 9 years Moss has averaged 75 catches a year for 1,188 yards each year, and 11 TD's a year. There's only a couple of Wrs in the history of the game, close to or better than that over a 9 year period and all are in the Hall of Fame. Maybe you should think before posting things that can only make you look foolish.

Weed smokers don't make the Hall.

[K2C]

You do know that he would only restructure his contract for the Patriots, that's why Green Bay was out of the picture right?

sh

[L.S. Dylan]

As much as I like seeing the opposition losing players to injury, I still want to see the Jets beat the Pats with both teams at full strength. Much more satisfying of a win.

I agree. But, with moss on the field i really feel like they will be 100% successful in the redzone. I dont know if we can match that

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

I'v been saying this since the day the Pats went and traded for Moss... This deal is going to explode in the face of the Patriots orgination. I never wish injury upon other players only because Carma is a a Biitch but just wait till D.Stallworth pulls a hammy, then Wes Welker will be the #1 WR.

[PatriotReign37]

Since Moss wasn't coming here i am not so up on the particualars, what team offered him 6 million more then the pats did?

The Oakland Raiders

[PatriotReign37]

I'v been saying this since the day the Pats went and traded for Moss... This deal is going to explode in the face of the Patriots orgination. I never wish injury upon other players only because Carma is a a Biitch but just wait till D.Stallworth pulls a hammy, then Wes Welker will be the #1 WR.

Your predictions and $ 1.39 will buy a Pepsi.

Moss is NY worst nightmare.

[PatriotReign37]

I agree. But, with moss on the field i really feel like they will be 100% successful in the redzone. I dont know if we can match that

Moss is the best WR Brady has ever had and Brady the best QB Moss has ever had.

Its going to take a very good secondary to slow the NE passing game down.

[PatriotReign37]

No, if randy said no to that stipulation he would likely have been cut. The raiders didn't want him, it was obvious by the 4th rounder they took for him, and the packers were not showing him the money either. He would have been cut and most likely been a free agent with offers in line with the pats.

It was reported that GB's deal was a 2 year deal. NE only offered a 1 year deal.

Also, it makes no friggin sense that NE guaranteed his deal because if there were any problems NE would be on the hook for 3 Mil. Furthermore, Miguel states no where in his cap page that Moss's deal was guaranteed. Thats sort of a big detail.

2.5 in salary, .5 roster bonus and another 1 - 1.5 Mil in incentives.

http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#moss

Randy Moss - John Tomase reported in the Boston Herald's Point After blog - "Randy Moss put his money where his mouth is to come to New England. The wideout accepted a one-year deal worth $3 million, with $2 million in earned incentives. He had been due to make $9.75 million this year and $11.25 million next year, but tore up that deal."

May 3, 2007 update On 5/3/2007 the Boston Globe's Mike Reiss reported in his blog that "WR Randy Moss's base salary for 2007 is for $2.5 million. He has a $500,000 roster bonus as part of the deal. There are $1.5 million in escalators/incentives in the contract.

If you ask me, you people are all full of $hit. Clueless about Jet player contracts never mind a real team like the Pats. Stick to Hero worship and tailgate recipes.