For All the Yankee Haters Out There Who Say They "BUY" Their

[shawn306]

Hmmmmm, the Mets have TWO Free Agents in their starting eight. Beltran and Alou.

Nice way to substantiate your point.

Scott: You don't think Castillo and Delgado were salary dumps ?

[Scott Dierking]

Starting 8 is one thing SD, but let's be fair. Didn't they sign Wagner as a FA and Glavine/Pedro just a year apart? That's their top two starters (when healthy obviously) and their closer. If I recall correctly they also got Delgado in a salary dump. Is it as a FA? No. Is it a whole lot different than a FA? I don't think so. JMO.

So when the Yankees get players they are called "great trades", but when the Mets do it, they are "salary dumps"?

That is fair?

Answer me this, when was the last time the Mets team payroll exceeded the Yankees?

[Scott Dierking]

Scott: You don't think Castillo and Delgado were salary dumps ?

Abreu, Randy Johnson?

Edit-and BTW-Castillo was not a dump-he is a FA at the end of the year.

[AFJF]

So when the Yankees get players they are called "great trades", but when the Mets do it, they are "salary dumps"?

That is fair?

Answer me this, when was the last time the Mets team payroll exceeded the Yankees?

When did I say the Yankees never acquired players in salary dumps? They absolutely do that. So do the Mets. I'm just pointing out a fact. They both do it so there's no need to pretend that one team is any different than the other.

[shawn306]

Abreu, Randy Johnson?

Scott: You are missing the point here.

What Junc said was that the Sox and Mets have started doing the same thing the Yanks have been doing have been doing.

Here is NYJUNC quote: The Yanks didn't buy any of their Championships from the latest dynasty, they built fro w/in, made great trades and had a few FAs. They have tried to buy Championships in recent years but it hasn't worked. If you are looking for teams that have bought/tried to buy look no further than our 2 jealous rivals. Boston had ONE homegrown regular in te fluke of '04 and the Mets are ateam that is comprised of mostly salary dumps and overpaid FAs w/ a sprinkiling of homegrown guys.

The Yanks have been doing since the dynsasty died in 01. Have both side made good deals ? Yes ? Have alot of them been dumps ? Yes.

To me it is funny listening to SOME Mets and Sox fans actually sit there and act like they are not trying to do what the Yanks have been doing the past 6 years.

JMHO

[Scott Dierking]

When did I say the Yankees never acquired players in salary dumps? They absolutely do that. So do the Mets. I'm just pointing out a fact. They both do it so there's no need to pretend that one team is any different than the other.

Well, that is not the point of nyjunc, and that is who I responded to.

[Scott Dierking]

Scott: You are missing the point here.

What Junc said was that the Sox and Mets have started doing the same thing the Yanks have been doing have been doing.

Here is NYJUNC quote: The Yanks didn't buy any of their Championships from the latest dynasty, they built fro w/in, made great trades and had a few FAs. They have tried to buy Championships in recent years but it hasn't worked. If you are looking for teams that have bought/tried to buy look no further than our 2 jealous rivals. Boston had ONE homegrown regular in te fluke of '04 and the Mets are ateam that is comprised of mostly salary dumps and overpaid FAs w/ a sprinkiling of homegrown guys.

The Yanks have been doing since the dynsasty died in 01. Have both side made good deals ? Yes ? Have alot of them been dumps ? Yes.

To me it is funny listening to SOME Mets and Sox fans actually sit there and act like they are not trying to do what the Yanks have been doing the past 6 years.

JMHO

Shawn-NYJUNC's point, as I took it is that the Mets and RedSox are built DIFFERENTLY than the Yankees. That the Yanjkees are built form within.

WRONG. They are built similarly

[shawn306]

Shawn-NYJUNC's point, as I took it is that the Mets and RedSox are built DIFFERENTLY than the Yankees. That the Yanjkees are built form within.

WRONG. They are built similarly

Yeah right now I agree. I think though that what you have seen with Cashman the last two, three years is him relying more on the farm system then from going outside. I think it is something that takes time to do. Now the Yanks are starting to see fruits of that with Cano, Melky, Wang and the guys this year in Hughes, Chamberlain and Duncan.

It's not all the way there yet but it is coming. Are the Yanks ever going to be the Minnesota Twins or Oakland in generating guys every year. No. They don't need to. Same as the Mets, Same as the Sox.

In past years there is no doubt in my mind that someone like Gagne would be a Yankee right now. It is that change in philosophy that has Yankee fans excited.

I'm not even attacking the Mets or the Sox for doing what they are doing now. I'm attacking those fans who have been here the past couple of years (or even back in the days when the JI baseball forum was actually good) about how the Yankees have done buisness the past couple of years but don't even want to acknowledge the fact that their teams are now doing the same exact thing.

[Scott Dierking]

Y

I'm not even attacking the Mets or the Sox for doing what they are doing now.

Is this any different than what the mets are doing right now?

Did the Mets spend big on FA's last year?

Did the Mets commit to a core of young talent (like the Yankees) and say they are untouchable in any trade? Yes they did.

Let's not forget what the Yankees did with Roger Clemens. It is not like they have been tight fisted.

[ShadowJet35]

Before today, he didn't even know who Phil Rizzuto was.

Ouch

[shawn306]

Is this any different than what the mets are doing right now?

Did the Mets spend big on FA's last year?

Did the Mets commit to a core of young talent (like the Yankees) and say they are untouchable in any trade? Yes they did.

Let's not forget what the Yankees did with Roger Clemens. It is not like they have been tight fisted.

Unless you consider Alou a big FA (Which I don't) The answer is no.

You could see the Clemens things a mile away.

the moment Cano swtiched jersey's you knew it was just a matter of time.

Again though. Have the Mets the past 3-4 years been doing the things the way the Yankees have been ?

Lo Duca

Delgado

Glavine

Pedro

Wagner

Beltran

Castillo: We can argue this one if you want but when you give marginal prospects for a guy like Castillo it can be taken as a dump. Just ask Johan Santana.

Simple yes or no answer.

[Scott Dierking]

Unless you consider Alou a big FA (Which I don't) The answer is no.

You could see the Clemens things a mile away.

the moment Cano swtiched jersey's you knew it was just a matter of time.

Again though. Have the Mets the past 3-4 years been doing the things the way the Yankees have been ?

Lo Duca

Delgado

Glavine

Pedro

Wagner

Beltran

Castillo: We can argue this one if you want but when you give marginal prospects for a guy like Castillo it can be taken as a dump. Just ask Johan Santana.

Simple yes or no answer.

i said yes many posts ago.

My assertion, this entire thread was alluding to NYjunc's point that the Yankees are so much different than the Mets (and Red Sox).

What?

BTW-in the LoDuca Delgado deals, the Mets gave up quality prospects.

In Minaya's early tenure, he made the Wagner, Pedro and Martinez deals to establish credibility and make NY relevant again. I understand that. It made other players want to come to NY.

Now, is that something that smaller clubs have a luxury of? No.

[shawn306]

i said yes many posts ago.

My assertion, this entire thread was alluding to NYjunc's point that the Yankees are so much different than the Mets (and Red Sox).

What?

BTW-in the LoDuca Delgado deals, the Mets gave up quality prospects.

In Minaya's early tenure, he made the Wagner, Pedro and Martinez deals to establish credibility and make NY relevant again. I understand that. It made other players want to come to NY.

Now, is that something that smaller clubs have a luxury of? No.

Fair enough. Jacobs has none pretty well in Florida. If you say the other guys were quality then I'll go with you on that since you know the Mets farm system. Haven't seen or heard much of the others.

[GimmeShelter]

Fair enough. Jacobs has none pretty well in Florida. If you say the other guys were quality then I'll go with you on that since you know the Mets farm system. Haven't seen or heard much of the others.

Actually Petit was also in that deal. He's a DBack now still feeling his way and I only remembered due to HAM posting we got smoked in the deal. Jacobs when healthy is a legit power threat.

[GimmeShelter]

IMO the best examples of buying a ring easilly goes to the Marlins for their first ring. Used dumptruck full of cash to bring in the best players, won a ring, and broke them all up.

I don't think you can buy a ring any more unless you hit a homer on every player you overpay for but you can certainly increase your post season odds through payroll....we've witnessed that.

[#27TheDominator]

Let's not forget what the Yankees did with Roger Clemens. It is not like they have been tight fisted.

I don't think the Yankees were being tightfisted, but I sort of discount the Clemens deal. I've said it before, but I think there are two kinds of Yankee deals: Cashman deals and Steinbrenner deals. I see Clemens, like Sheffield, as a Steinbrenner deal. Matsui too. I think Cashman will spend, but he will look for some degree of value, whereas the Boss just picks who he wants and says "whatever it takes." I count those guys out there with an *.

[Jet Moses]

Ouch

Well it's just plain pathetic that you're on this forum posting over and over how many championships the yankees won when you couldn't even name the starting shortstop in seven of them.

Everybody already knows your a joke, but I just like to go into overkill.

[BP]

If you guys don't like each other, just ignore each other. this is a good thread and I'd hate to have to lock it.

[K2C]

Most maligned farm system in the Bigs? Ha.

The Braves produce players on the regular year after year. Anyone that argues with that doesn't know a thing about baseball.

[Kidhuman]

Well it's just plain pathetic that you're on this forum posting over and over how many championships the yankees won when you couldn't even name the starting shortstop in seven of them.

Phil Rizutto, he won 7 rings for the Yankees while playing Shortstop.

[nyjunc]

Hmmmmm, the Mets have TWO Free Agents in their starting eight. Beltran and Alou.

Nice way to substantiate your point.

Salary dumps in LoDuca, Green & Delgado plus FAs in Beltran and Alou mean salary had something to do w/ 5 of the 8 position players while you got castillo for nothing so you only have 2 homegrown regulars as far as position players o. Pitching wise you don't have one homegrown Met in the rotation and your closer was a high priced FA. only heilman is a homegrown Met so of all the regulars you have the SS, 3B and a setup man as homegrown players.

Does this help my point?

[Scott Dierking]

Salary dumps in LoDuca, Green & Delgado plus FAs in Beltran and Alou mean salary had something to do w/ 5 of the 8 position players while you got castillo for nothing so you only have 2 homegrown regulars as far as position players o. Pitching wise you don't have one homegrown Met in the rotation and your closer was a high priced FA. only heilman is a homegrown Met so of all the regulars you have the SS, 3B and a setup man as homegrown players.

Does this help my point?

Does a comparison of the Yankees payroll to the Mets, bolster mine?

It is odd, you state that the Mets make "salary dumps", yet the Yankees make "great trades"

Hypocritical.

Am i saying the Mets play a differnt game than the Yankees? Of course not. But please don't insult our intelligence that the Yankees are above that fray.

[PFSIKH]

The Yanks didn't buy any of their Championships from the latest dynasty, they built fro w/in, made great trades and had a few FAs. They have tried to buy Championships in recent years but it hasn't worked. If you are looking for teams that have bought/tried to buy look no further than our 2 jealous rivals. Boston had ONE homegrown regular in te fluke of '04 and the Mets are ateam that is comprised of mostly salary dumps and overpaid FAs w/ a sprinkiling of homegrown guys.

So the Yankees picking up: Tino Martinez, David Justice, Paul O'Neil, Roger Clemens, David Cone, Jeff Nelson, Dwight Gooden, Mike Stanton, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines, David Wells, Cecil Fielder and Wade Boggs to name a few, over the years is a great trade? It looks like a little more then a sprinkle to. Hmmmmm.

[nyjunc]

So the Yankees picking up: Tino Martinez, David Justice, Paul O'Neil, Roger Clemens, David Cone, Jeff Nelson, Dwight Gooden, Mike Stanton, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines, David Wells, Cecil Fielder and Wade Boggs to name a few, over the years is a great trade? It looks like a little more then a sprinkle to. Hmmmmm.

Tino we sent 2 top prospects(Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcok) to acquire.

Justice was terible and getting old so Cle dumpd him but we still gave up Ricky ledee and jake Wetbrook for him.

O'neill we sent a YOUNG All-Star CF(Roberto kelly)

Clemens we sent Wells, a great bullpen arm an a great role player

gooden didn't help us win any Championships.

Stanton was a low level FA, his salary went DOWN in '97 from what Boston was paying him in '96.

Straw was a FA NOBODY wanted

Raines was old, chi was giving him away and his salary went DOWN after the Yanks acquired him.

Wels and Key were the only 2 somewhat big FAs we signed.

Fielder we gave up Sierra and a good pitching prospect in Matt Drews.

Boggs was a mid level FA.

Your post just proves my point, we were built from w/in and sprinkiled in a couple of somewhat big FA signings along w/ some great trades where we had to give up either top prospects or good ML players.

[nyjunc]

Does a comparison of the Yankees payroll to the Mets, bolster mine?

It is odd, you state that the Mets make "salary dumps", yet the Yankees make "great trades"

Hypocritical.

Am i saying the Mets play a differnt game than the Yankees? Of course not. But please don't insult our intelligence that the Yankees are above that fray.

You gave p nothing for Lo Duca and delgado- that was a strict salary dump by Fla. We gave up top prospects and/or decent ML players. Abreu was a salary dump but I am talking about the latest dynasty years not the past 5-6 years.

[Scott Dierking]

You gave p nothing for Lo Duca and delgado- that was a strict salary dump by Fla. We gave up top prospects and/or decent ML players. Abreu was a salary dump but I am talking about the latest dynasty years not the past 5-6 years.

Mike Jacobs and Petit were very highly rated prospects. Jacobs is teh Florida starting first baseman now, and Petit has been one of teh top pitching prospects-he is currently with Arizona.

As always, some people who don't want to be enlightrened, are unable to seee the light.

Yes, NYjunc, the Yankees deals and team building has so little to do with dollars. Sleep tight.

[GimmeShelter]

Mike Jacobs and Petit were very highly rated prospects. Jacobs is teh Florida starting first baseman now, and Petit has been one of teh top pitching prospects-he is currently with Arizona.

As always, some people who don't want to be enlightrened, are unable to seee the light.

Yes, NYjunc, the Yankees deals and team building has so little to do with dollars. Sleep tight.

Absolutely....In fact there were posts at the time of that trade on this board stating we got killed in the deal which still remains to be seen. Jacobs when healthy IS a legit power hitting 1st baseman and Petit will be a Major League starter. Yet we are forced to hear about Ricky Ledee.

[Bugg]

Can we unbuy this mangina Mussina?

[PFSIKH]

Tino we sent 2 top prospects(Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcok) to acquire.

Justice was terible and getting old so Cle dumpd him but we still gave up Ricky ledee and jake Wetbrook for him.

O'neill we sent a YOUNG All-Star CF(Roberto kelly)

Clemens we sent Wells, a great bullpen arm an a great role player

gooden didn't help us win any Championships.

Stanton was a low level FA, his salary went DOWN in '97 from what Boston was paying him in '96.

Straw was a FA NOBODY wanted

Raines was old, chi was giving him away and his salary went DOWN after the Yanks acquired him.

Wels and Key were the only 2 somewhat big FAs we signed.

Fielder we gave up Sierra and a good pitching prospect in Matt Drews.

Boggs was a mid level FA.

Your post just proves my point, we were built from w/in and sprinkiled in a couple of somewhat big FA signings along w/ some great trades where we had to give up either top prospects or good ML players.

Russ Davis and Sterling Hitch**** were top prospects? Roberto Kelley was young? He was a year younger then O'Neill

I am not saying the Yankees totally bought their titles, but it is nice to have the money to pay David Justice, and all those names above to sit on the bench and come through in a big moment. I am pretty sure a few of those players had some significant moments in Yankee lore.

[Scott Dierking]

Russ Davis and Sterling Hitch**** were top prospects? Roberto Kelley was young? He was a year younger then O'Neill

I am not saying the Yankees totally bought their titles, but it is nice to have the money to pay David Justice, and all those names above to sit on the bench and come through in a big moment. I am pretty sure a few of those players had some significant moments in Yankee lore.

How about when they bought Jon Leiber, just to sit on the bench for the entire year because he was injured.

[PFSIKH]

How about when they bought Jon Leiber, just to sit on the bench for the entire year because he was injured.

Someone had to get Joe an order of nachos.

[BP]

Russ Davis and Sterling Hitch**** were top prospects? Roberto Kelley was young? He was a year younger then O'Neill

Yes, they were. the Yanks got Tino Martinez and Jeff Nelson for those two.

And O'Neil was thought of as a platooned right fielder with the Reds, while Kelly was being projected as a superstar.

Great trade by Stick Michael.

[Scott Dierking]

Yes, they were. the Yanks got Tino Martinez and Jeff Nelson for those two.

And O'Neil was thought of as a platooned right fielder with the Reds, while Kelly was being projected as a superstar.

Great trade by Stick Michael.

Teams make trades and that is a part of the process-Some of them work out very good for you.

Some of them are salary dumps. So be it.

Between the Mets RedSox and Yankees, they are all thick as thieves. Just the way it is set up.

[nyjunc]

Mike Jacobs and Petit were very highly rated prospects. Jacobs is teh Florida starting first baseman now, and Petit has been one of teh top pitching prospects-he is currently with Arizona.

As always, some people who don't want to be enlightrened, are unable to seee the light.

Yes, NYjunc, the Yankees deals and team building has so little to do with dollars. Sleep tight.

Jacobs has proven to be nothing more than a .260 hitter so far. petit was so highly thought of he's on his 3rd organization in about a year's time. The marlins were so high on petit that they traded him straight up for the great Jorge julio.

Russ Davis and Sterling Hitch**** were top prospects? Roberto Kelley was young? He was a year younger then O'Neill

I am not saying the Yankees totally bought their titles, but it is nice to have the money to pay David Justice, and all those names above to sit on the bench and come through in a big moment. I am pretty sure a few of those players had some significant moments in Yankee lore.

Davis was a big time prospect and hitchock eventually became an NLCS MVP helping to lead SD to a WS.

Of course money helps but the point is we weren't built on FAs and salary dumps. We built it the right way, we have TRIED to buy Championships the last 5-6-7 years but it hasn't worked.

How about when they bought Jon Leiber, just to sit on the bench for the entire year because he was injured.

Lieber came very cheap, any team could have done what the Yankees did.

[PeterNorth09]

Russ Davis and Sterling Hitch**** were top prospects? Roberto Kelley was young? He was a year younger then O'Neill

I am not saying the Yankees totally bought their titles, but it is nice to have the money to pay David Justice, and all those names above to sit on the bench and come through in a big moment. I am pretty sure a few of those players had some significant moments in Yankee lore.

It is also nice to be a f@ggot-ass Blowsox or Mutts fan and complain about how rich the Yankees are and how many FA's they buy when your own teams buy Free Agents up the wazoo and have just as much if not more money.

Fenway is a piece of sh*t stadium. Personally I hope it burns down to the ground.