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Seymour absent from camp


RichardSeymour

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what a great year? Pro Bowl DT who had 5.5 sacks, and 56 tackles. Pretty good sack total, overall good numbers but not pro bowl worthy. He's a very good player, but I don't understand the fascination people have with this guy. He's not a player in the echelon of the Freeneys, Peppers, Sapps (once was), or even a player at the level of Kris Jenkins and John Abraham. Seymours a GREAT player in the patriots system, but just a very good player overall imho.

Barton, your reasoning is flawed as always. You are comparing Seymour to pass rushing LBs who line up at DE. Just because Seymour isn't a primary pass rushing DE like Abraham or Freeney doesn't mean he's not Pro Bowl worthy. I would like to see either of those two stop the run even half as good as he does.

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in the superbowl (I broke down the SB recently, watching every play several times and once at 1/8th speed) he was moving like a linebacker and leapt out at you on a LOT of plays.

RS - i really like having you around on this board - but if this is what you are doing with your free time you need to get a new hobby brother.

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what a great year? Pro Bowl DT who had 5.5 sacks, and 56 tackles. Pretty good sack total, overall good numbers but not pro bowl worthy. He's a very good player, but I don't understand the fascination people have with this guy. He's not a player in the echelon of the Freeneys, Peppers, Sapps (once was), or even a player at the level of Kris Jenkins and John Abraham. Seymours a GREAT player in the patriots system, but just a very good player overall imho.

EB don't ever, ever, ever, EVER try to suggest that Freeney is in Seymour's league or god forbid above it or I will have to get medieval on your ass.

When it comes to selling out, ignoring the run, playing irresponsibly, and going for sacks Freeney is among the best in the league. Seymour plays the run, plays the pass, and is one more good year away from being on the downhill slope to the hall of fame. He would be a cornerstone gold chip defender on any defense in the league, 4-3, 3-4, 6-1, or 1-6. Sit down, son, before you get hurt.

As for the stats....

2 gap son. 2 gap. Stats are ALWAYS a cr**** way to compare D-linemen (hey, don't D-Robs suck?) but particularly when a 2 gap system is involved.

Seymour is a beast. Last year he disappeared for stretches, a disconcerting first for him, hence my belief it was a down year, but do NOT start slinging around this freeney boolchit.

David Givens? Guys never even had a 900 yard season or a season with more than 5 TDs and over 600 yards in the same year. He's not even CLOSE to being a "1.5" type reciever. He's a borderline #2 at best puhleeze.

EB, are you that much of a statmonkey?

Watch the damn games sometime...

This is a guy who had his first 35 or so catches all go for first down. He blocks well and plays physically and smart. He is NOT the most talented guy in the league but if there's an heir apparant to the Heinz Ward "unheralded, gritty, and really good" crown, it's Givens.

Borderline #2 my ***.

Deion Branch, while he had a great superbowl performance is a borderline #2 wide reciever as well. Never had a 900+ yard season, NEVER EVEN CAUGHT MORE THAN 4 TOUCHDOWNS IN A SINGLE SEASON. This is a guy who'd be lucky to get 600 yards in a season, decent wide reciever.

BORDERLINE #2? Holy dogsh*t Private Pyle....

This is a guy who has played on a team with superb WR depth and who missed much of last year with injury. This is a guy who has put up 481 yards in 6 playoff games.

I DON'T think he's a league elite WR but he's sure as hell a d*** fine #2 even if you doubt him as a middling #1. I consider him a 1.5--- passable as a 1, excellent for a #2.

Go back and watch the superbowl. Watch his route running and ability after the catch. Watch the guy. He's NOT a great WR yet, but he's a fine one, and possibly better than any of the sorry bunch on your sorry team, with Laveranues Coles taking correspondence courses in the Ty Law School of Gimp.

I know what you're saying about the depth at WR past branch and givens very thin, but Seymour is a great player in the patsys scheme, he makes the rest of those JAGs look way better than they really are. Even personal people around the NFL have said that Jarvis Green is crap, it was in an espn.com article not too long ago, they didn't say crap, but when talking about Green, they were like "please, he's a system player, only in new england yada yada"

Why is it all of our guys are "great in our scheme" while all of your guys are just great? Is your coach THAT dumb that you guys don't even have a scheme? For f**** sake what the hell do you think Freeney is? What do you think happens if Freeney gets asked to play DE for the Patriots? He f***ing sucks BALLS, that's what happens, because all of a sudden he's being asked to play the run, control his man, and play with discipline and he's being flattened more than Wiley Coyote. Now he COULD play the rush OLB role, but there is not a SINGLE 4-3 team in the league that wouldn't start Seymour at DT, and only a handful have even ONE DT who they might THINK of placing ahead of Seymour on the depth chart (Jenkins and uh... uh....).

How about Ray Lewis? Notice how as soon as the Ravens scheme no longer involved keeping blockers off of him his play dropped off and he started scowling?

Players are made BETTER by schemes that properly utilize them, but it's the rare scheme that makes dross look like gold.

As for Jarvis Green, rewatch the superbowl and tell me that with a straight face.

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RS - i really like having you around on this board - but if this is what you are doing with your free time you need to get a new hobby brother.

Naw man. You ain't seen nothing. Over on KFFL there's two cats, Marksbrother and Raiderbruce (Phins fan and Raiders fan" who have 100+ game libraries, and break down games for fun.... Marks will at random decide to watch every Bears game he has so he can figure out how good Lance Briggs is.... Bruce.... look, I respect Ham, and no disrespect to him intended, but Bruce is like a cross between Ham and Bill Belichick. The dude *knows*....

Myself I have the superbowl DVD, you know, the NFL films one that they make when your team wins the su---

Oh, sorry. Guess you guys had to buy the videota---

Oh, yeah. Guess they didn't have those back then either.

Anyway, that DVD has every play of the superbowl, but I hadn't watched it again yet, just the NFL films narrated version. I've been having a row with a rival fan over at KFFL about how McNabb played in the superbowl (I say he sucked, this dude says the game was close and his numbers were big, so he played at least decently), so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and break the whole thing down, notepad in hand. Takes like an hour per half, tops, since the broadcast clips off much of the between play action and you can fast forward through between plays stuff.

Anyway, that should solve the whole "you like having me on this board problem".

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Barton, your reasoning is flawed as always. You are comparing Seymour to pass rushing LBs who line up at DE. Just because Seymour isn't a primary pass rushing DE like Abraham or Freeney doesn't mean he's not Pro Bowl worthy. I would like to see either of those two stop the run even half as good as he does.

I would like to see Freeney line up inside the tackle, take a double team weighing in excess of 650 pounds, and push the double team back off the LOS while maintaining control of his blockers, collapsing the pocket, taking two blockers out of the play, limiting the QBs throwing lanes, blocking a huge segment of the LOS from a rush and disrupting almost every aspect of the offense.

But wait, Freeney can sky past the quarterback 30 times a game, creating a huge gaping run lane, and taking himself completely out of the play as he overshoots the quarterback like its his job. But that's OK because 2 or 3 times he either sacks the QB or comes close...

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Freeney and Seymour are 2 different players, but Freeney makes bigger plays in the pass game.

Now if you wanna talk some John Abraham, if he can play 16 games every season, he'd be better and more recognized than Seymour AND Freeney because Abraham plays the run very well. While Seymour may stop the run twice as well as either Freeney or Abraham. Abraham and Freeney are at least 2X better at pass rushing, which in this day and age of complex schemes and the need to pressure the QB, I'll take the megastar pass rushing defensive end.

About Givens and Branch. I could see your panties rode up on ya there. The stats don't lie. 3 TDs and 874 yards (career high BY FAR) are numbers for a #2 wide reciever. Santana Moss has better numbers, and he too is a #2 WR at best, so don't take it so personal. Branch is better than Givens IMO, he has better hands as well, but his numbers are worthy of a #2 wide receiver. Sure new england spreads the ball around very very well, but it doesn't change the fact that Givens and Branch put up well below average numbers for a number 1 type reciever. so don't kid yourself

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Freeney and Seymour are 2 different players, but Freeney makes bigger plays in the pass game.

And what's your point?

Freeney couldn't bring down Jessica Simpson if she ran at him.

There is no more one-dimensional DE in the league than Dwight Freeney.

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And what's your point?

Freeney couldn't bring down Jessica Simpson if she ran at him.

There is no more one-dimensional DE in the league than Dwight Freeney.

Maybe so, but there is also no better pass rushing defensive end in the league than dwight freeney. And while teams may run at him, he has great range attacking the ball carrier when they run to the opposite side of the field.

I understand why you patsy fans love Seymour so much. He's a tough player and he's very important to the patriots defense, but he's overrated.

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Maybe so, but there is also no better pass rushing defensive end in the league than dwight freeney. And while teams may run at him, he has great range attacking the ball carrier when they run to the opposite side of the field.

I understand why you patsy fans love Seymour so much. He's a tough player and he's very important to the patriots defense, but he's overrated.

I totally agree with you that Freeney is the premier pass rusher in the NFL. (nobody has made Matt Light look as bad as Freeney has).

However, he is absolutely atrocious against the run. He can not fight off blockers if his life depended on it.

You use a very poor example about running the play down across the field. 9 times out of 10, the RB is at least five yards downfield.

If it is a choice between Freeney or Seymour, it is a no brainer decision. Always go with the more complete ball player versus one who is a one-dimensional specialty player.

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I totally agree with you that Freeney is the premier pass rusher in the NFL. (nobody has made Matt Light look as bad as Freeney has).

However, he is absolutely atrocious against the run. He can not fight off blockers if his life depended on it.

You use a very poor example about running the play down across the field. 9 times out of 10, the RB is at least five yards downfield.

If it is a choice between Freeney or Seymour, it is a no brainer decision. Always go with the more complete ball player versus one who is a one-dimensional specialty player.

Well it depends what other players you have around him. Seymour has other run stuffers playing next to him, so a great pass rushing DE like Abraham, Peppers or Freeney, in the 4-3 would make the pats defense even better, potentially.

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