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First of all, let me point out two things I noticed while watching the game - AND THEY WERE OBVIOUS:

The "cheer" heard when Pennington went down was a DERISIVE CHEER. Anybody trying to suggest otherwise is in denial.

The second thing is, it DID look as if the Pats had the Jets playbook. I'm watching this game and I'm thinking that THERE IS JUST NO WAY A QB HAS THAT MUCH TIME TO THROW THE BALL.

C'mon we've all played two hand touch. Sooner or later you run out of Mississippi's.

Need some proof to back it up? OK, case in point:

7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Pats have the ball, it's a 2nd down and 6, Pats are up 21-7. As bad as the Jets are playing, they are still in this. OK, so our defense calls an all out blitz. The Pats as we now know, know whats coming and line-up with one WR on the field.

OK this is what kills me- at what point does Mangini, or Sutton or even Vilma call a time-out? You have an all out blitz on this play, and the Pats send you a red flag TELLING YOU THEY ARE KEEPING EVERYBODY IN TO BLOCK by having only one WR lineup.

And yet, amazingly, not only do the Jets blitz, but Brady has enough time to connect on a 51 yard passing play - 51 YARDS!!!!- to a solo WR who is triple teamed by our secondary.

He had "only" three D-backs covering him of course because one of them was in the blitz package.

It was only after that TD that the game got away from the Jets and turned into a blowout.

So yes, the Pats stealing signals definitely helped them seal the deal and I don't want to hear otherwise. But on the other hand, I just look at the total ineptitude of the coaching staff and our players on that play, and I got to shrug and ask how the Hell do you go ahead and blitz a team that only lines up one WR? On 2-6 on their own 49 yard line?

On a more serious note, it doesn't look good for the Everett kid from the Bills. Kind of makes you sicker when you see scumbags like Belly pulling the sh*t he does and compromising what little integrity is left to any of this. That bastard.

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The Pats filmed the Jets signals. You were right I was wrong. My apologies mate. Some of the posts today have been way over the top IMO. I just want to kn

First of all, let me point out two things I noticed while watching the game - AND THEY WERE OBVIOUS: The "cheer" heard when Pennington went down was a DERISIVE CHEER. Anybody trying to suggest o

The "cheer" heard when Pennington went down was a DERISIVE CHEER. Anybody trying to suggest otherwise is in denial.

The cheer was for Clemens coming in, NOT Chad being hurt. this goes back to Glenn Foley coming in for O'Donnel back in the Kotite days. and continued yesterday.

The entire cheering for Pennington being hurt was just a **** stirring by the media, I agree Jet Mo.

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The cheer was for Clemens coming in, NOT Chad being hurt. this goes back to Glenn Foley coming in for O'Donnel back in the Kotite days. and continued yesterday.

The entire cheering for Pennington being hurt was just a **** stirring by the media, I agree Jet Mo.

Dude, as soon as I heard it I knew it was Heckyl and Jeckyl BS. I didn't need Phil Simms to tell me what my gut already did. Sorry, gotta disagree.

Alot of Jets fans don't like Pennington and want him gone- their voices were heard loud and clear. My consious is clear and I have no sense of shared guilt or shame for that disgusting outburst, nor do I feel I need to apologize for them.

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Dude, as soon as I heard it I knew it was Heckyl and Jeckyl BS. I didn't need Phil Simms to tell me what my gut already did. Sorry, gotta disagree.

Alot of Jets fans don't like Pennington and want him gone- their voices were heard loud and clear. My consious is clear and I have no sense of shared guilt or shame for that disgusting outburst, nor do I feel I need to apologize for them.

I didn't like the yahoos-and they were few, not all 77,000- who did it. But I also don't like the lazy freaking media once again portraying Jets fans as animals. Keith Olbermann and Veal Fatcessa and Dumb Puppy can all go pound sand. Again the one media member who was actually there calling the game, Bob Wischusen, said it was more a cheer for Clemens.Now, I think there were a few nasty guys there, but they were few. I'm really fed up with media outlets that treat this franchise and it's fans like a pinata.
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First of all, let me point out two things I noticed while watching the game - AND THEY WERE OBVIOUS:

The "cheer" heard when Pennington went down was a DERISIVE CHEER. Anybody trying to suggest otherwise is in denial.

The second thing is, it DID look as if the Pats had the Jets playbook. I'm watching this game and I'm thinking that THERE IS JUST NO WAY A QB HAS THAT MUCH TIME TO THROW THE BALL.

C'mon we've all played two hand touch. Sooner or later you run out of Mississippi's.

Need some proof to back it up? OK, case in point:

7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Pats have the ball, it's a 2nd down and 6, Pats are up 21-7. As bad as the Jets are playing, they are still in this. OK, so our defense calls an all out blitz. The Pats as we now know, know whats coming and line-up with one WR on the field.

OK this is what kills me- at what point does Mangini, or Sutton or even Vilma call a time-out? You have an all out blitz on this play, and the Pats send you a red flag TELLING YOU THEY ARE KEEPING EVERYBODY IN TO BLOCK by having only one WR lineup.

And yet, amazingly, not only do the Jets blitz, but Brady has enough time to connect on a 51 yard passing play - 51 YARDS!!!!- to a solo WR who is triple teamed by our secondary.

He had "only" three D-backs covering him of course because one of them was in the blitz package.

It was only after that TD that the game got away from the Jets and turned into a blowout.

So yes, the Pats stealing signals definitely helped them seal the deal and I don't want to hear otherwise. But on the other hand, I just look at the total ineptitude of the coaching staff and our players on that play, and I got to shrug and ask how the Hell do you go ahead and blitz a team that only lines up one WR? On 2-6 on their own 49 yard line?

On a more serious note, it doesn't look good for the Everett kid from the Bills. Kind of makes you sicker when you see scumbags like Belly pulling the sh*t he does and compromising what little integrity is left to any of this. That bastard.

I heart this post. :P

i know exactly what you meant by the "derisive cheer" and it was unmistakeable.

I started to google "derisive" b/c i know that you meant the opposite of what bp was saying. While doing so i came across this passage from an interview with Roger Angell (The Summer Game) that i thought was pretty cool, so forgive me for the small threadjack.

Baseball provides surprises and refreshments automatically. But the game has changed a lot, everything about it except the actual game has changed. The stadiums, the crowds, the sounds of baseball. There used to be wonderful silences, there were different kinds of cheering and you could close your eyes and almost tell what was happening in the game. The derisive cheer, the derisive boo, to every level…a lot of that has gone out now because the sounds are so enormous and there is this constant blasting of loudspeakers and rock music is playing. It's not the same at all. And the crowd doesn't watch the game in the same way. Very few people keep score. For young people it's more like going to a rock concert.

Bart Giamatti was the first person I know who saw all that when he was National League president and then Commissioner. He told the owners, and he told me that he'd said this. He kept telling the owners, "You are going to have to take care of both audiences, the devout close watchers, like you and me who keep score and that watch everything on the field. And the people who are paying more attention to the gigantic score board and what is coming on to that." So that's a difference, and then television is a huge difference. TV has changed us all more than anything has in my lifetime, obviously. And instant replay, which changes everything. Instant replay replaces memory—in all of us—I think. Our memories are not what they used to be because some part of us says we can turn memory off and just find the replay.

I once talked to Carlton Fisk—I was writing a piece about home runs —and I asked, "Do you have any memory of that home run in the sixth game in 1975, any private memory of what it was like? We all know the famous TV shot of you going to first base waving the ball fair, pushing it to the field and it hits the foul pole and the game is won." He said, "It's very interesting that you should bring this up. I have only seen that shot about four or five times in my lifetime. Every time I see it coming up, I leave the room or turn the set off. Because I want to keep a crystal memory of what that was like for me." I was very touched.

RB: I think it's interesting how you discuss the changes in baseball without assigning some great a nostalgic value to it. I think it is very hard to that.

RA: We have all had to do this in our life times. With a lot of other things, politics and the family and the city. Almost every way we live has been radically altered in our lifetime. And we think, there it goes, it will never be the same. And it isn't the same, but then the next day comes along and you have to live with what's next. If you get sorry or get weepy, you are going to miss most of it. I have been very angry with a lot of what happened in baseball and I wrote it at the time and said, “This is the end of everything.” Expansion, the DH, a lot of other stuff and I have been dead against some things that have been great. Inter-league play is extremely entertaining. The post season is a vivid time of year, not just the World Series.

:character0282:

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Dude, as soon as I heard it I knew it was Heckyl and Jeckyl BS. I didn't need Phil Simms to tell me what my gut already did. Sorry, gotta disagree.

Alot of Jets fans don't like Pennington and want him gone- their voices were heard loud and clear. My consious is clear and I have no sense of shared guilt or shame for that disgusting outburst, nor do I feel I need to apologize for them.

Excuse the brain fart, the gas pressure was released by the honorable Jetcane's post. thank you Jetcane.

But I do think this is being stirred by the media a lot also. it was all over the place last night. the halftime show on Sunday night football, where all Jet fans were being categorized as classless POS. and it continued today.

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Where is the proof?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.

The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said. "The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game," the league said in a statement from spokesman Greg Aiello. "Clubs have specifically been reminded in the past that the videotaping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited. "We are looking into whether the Patriots violated this rule."

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game. The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets. dropQuote.gif It's not their first time. dropQuoteEnd.gif

-- A member of the NFL's competition committee

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins. "From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it." A Jets official declined comment Monday, directing an inquiry to the league office. The Patriots also did not have immediate comment. "With anything along those lines, those are all league-related matters, and anything that deals with an issue like this or anything on a team-by-team basis, those all go to the league," coach Eric Mangini said in his news conference Monday. New England cornerback Ellis Hobbs said he was unaware of the controversy, and unwilling to believe his team had cheated.

"We put too many hours in as individuals and a team to have to go out and cheat," he said. "If it's true, obviously, we're in the wrong. But I'm standing behind my team, my coaches. I don't think we do that stuff."

Where there is smoke.....

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First of all, let me point out two things I noticed while watching the game - AND THEY WERE OBVIOUS:

The "cheer" heard when Pennington went down was a DERISIVE CHEER. Anybody trying to suggest otherwise is in denial.

The second thing is, it DID look as if the Pats had the Jets playbook. I'm watching this game and I'm thinking that THERE IS JUST NO WAY A QB HAS THAT MUCH TIME TO THROW THE BALL.

C'mon we've all played two hand touch. Sooner or later you run out of Mississippi's.

Need some proof to back it up? OK, case in point:

7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Pats have the ball, it's a 2nd down and 6, Pats are up 21-7. As bad as the Jets are playing, they are still in this. OK, so our defense calls an all out blitz. The Pats as we now know, know whats coming and line-up with one WR on the field.

OK this is what kills me- at what point does Mangini, or Sutton or even Vilma call a time-out? You have an all out blitz on this play, and the Pats send you a red flag TELLING YOU THEY ARE KEEPING EVERYBODY IN TO BLOCK by having only one WR lineup.

And yet, amazingly, not only do the Jets blitz, but Brady has enough time to connect on a 51 yard passing play - 51 YARDS!!!!- to a solo WR who is triple teamed by our secondary.

He had "only" three D-backs covering him of course because one of them was in the blitz package.

It was only after that TD that the game got away from the Jets and turned into a blowout.

So yes, the Pats stealing signals definitely helped them seal the deal and I don't want to hear otherwise. But on the other hand, I just look at the total ineptitude of the coaching staff and our players on that play, and I got to shrug and ask how the Hell do you go ahead and blitz a team that only lines up one WR? On 2-6 on their own 49 yard line?

On a more serious note, it doesn't look good for the Everett kid from the Bills. Kind of makes you sicker when you see scumbags like Belly pulling the sh*t he does and compromising what little integrity is left to any of this. That bastard.

You're forgetting about another time on 2nd and 20 where we called an all out blitz and they hit Welker for a screen, who ran for 15 yards.... My friend turns to me and said, how is it they knew we were coming? I guess now we know the answer to that, lol.

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As I said, where is the proof?

When the NFL makes a statement we will know what happened.

Been caught before, G - same guy, same story. Proof - no. Lots of smoke indicating a fire - abso-freakin'-lutely. I wonder if Rodney Harrison is gonna issue the sincere apology for this incident, too?

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Been caught before, G - same guy, same story. Proof - no. Lots of smoke indicating a fire - abso-freakin'-lutely. I wonder if Rodney Harrison is gonna issue the sincere apology for this incident, too?

You just said it: "Proof - no." The smoke is coming from Jets fans.

ESPN, SI, FoxSports, etc have quoted Jets Confidential and Mort and thats about it. Those media outlets haven't accused the Pats of anything (unlike Jets fans).

When the NFL makes a statement I will comment on the allegations.

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You just said it: "Proof - no." The smoke is coming from Jets fans.

ESPN, SI, FoxSports, etc have quoted Jets Confidential and Mort and thats about it. Those media outlets haven't accused the Pats of anything (unlike Jets fans).

When the NFL makes a statement I will comment on the allegations.

Fair enough - but when it comes out that the same guy that was caught in Green Bay was doing the same thing yesterday, I'm demanding an apology from you my Aussie friend. ;)

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Does Chad get an apology for being treated like absolute crap by a loud contingent of Jets fans- coming back (tough, tough dude - no doubting his heart) and excuting a scoring drive - spent and hurt, replaced by Clemons, who quite frankly, looked like turd on a stick?

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Does Chad get an apology for being treated like absolute crap by a loud contingent of Jets fans- coming back (tough, tough dude - no doubting his heart) and excuting a scoring drive - spent and hurt, replaced by Clemons, who quite frankly, looked like turd on a stick?

Ahem - even Phil Simms who happens to HATE the NY Jets made the correct observation that the cheers were for Clemens entering the game, not Chad being injured.

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Does Chad get an apology for being treated like absolute crap by a loud contingent of Jets fans- coming back (tough, tough dude - no doubting his heart) and excuting a scoring drive - spent and hurt, replaced by Clemons, who quite frankly, looked like turd on a stick?

LOL there is such a thread on JI, much to the chagrin of those who were glad he was injured.

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Fair enough - but when it comes out that the same guy that was caught in Green Bay was doing the same thing yesterday, I'm demanding an apology from you my Aussie friend. ;)

If the evidence points to the Pats I will be the 1st guy to admit fault for a stupid move by BB, you no that :)

My point is that Jets fans are in a frenzy right now over something none of us no anything about.

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Ahem - even Phil Simms who happens to HATE the NY Jets made the correct observation that the cheers were for Clemens entering the game, not Chad being injured.

I was at the game and that was CLEARLY not the case. I was VERY glad that the section I was sitting in (great seats gg - thank you!) had only one such d*ck. Unfortunately for me, he was sitting right in front of me. I'm not a Jets fan in any way - but that was just wrong and I told everyone just that.

Additionally, like Gainzo, if the Pats used film to their advantage (which I think was stupid and unessary if true) I will say that BB is a d*ck too. As a matter of fact I gave GG the "Rodney cheated to get back on the field - I'm so disappointed in him" speech.....even if she didn't really want to hear it.;)

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I was at the game and that was CLEARLY not the case. I was VERY glad that the section I was sitting in (great seats gg - thank you!) had only one such d*ck. Unfortunately for me, he was sitting right in front of me. I'm not a Jets fan in any way - but that was just wrong and I told everyone just that.

Wait, so right after a sack by the Patriots you went from cheering to yelling at a Jet fan? interesting.

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Wait, so right after a sack by the Patriots you went from cheering to yelling at a Jet fan? interesting.

I don't cheer at sacks. Never do in enemy territory. Although I did admit to clapping after Vrable's first sack for one reason....and you know what that is.

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I don't cheer at sacks. Never do in enemy territory.

There were Pats fans cheering that sack by me, so maybe that's why I have a different take on this. I don't know.

Although I did admit to clapping after Vrable's first sack for one reason....and you know what that is.

HAHA! ;)

You never told me how that rum and coke was? :(

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There were Pats fans cheering that sack by me, so maybe that's why I have a different take on this. I don't know.

HAHA! ;)

You never told me how that rum and coke was? :(

Fabulous. Best rum and dc ever....oops, "evah."

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The cheer was for Clemens coming in, NOT Chad being hurt. this goes back to Glenn Foley coming in for O'Donnel back in the Kotite days. and continued yesterday.

The entire cheering for Pennington being hurt was just a **** stirring by the media, I agree Jet Mo.

IDK, i had the game on tivo, and rewound it because of that 'cheer'. In my eyes there was no doubt they cheered that Penny was staying down, not that KC was coming in.

I'm glad we get to take a look at KC, but not like this, i didn't want penny to get hurt. Now all the jet trolls are just glowing that our team captain is down, and that is somehow the best thing that could happen to us.

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Alot of Jets fans don't like Pennington and want him gone- their voices were heard loud and clear. My consious is clear and I have no sense of shared guilt or shame for that disgusting outburst, nor do I feel I need to apologize for them.

Moses this is a truly great post.

because they like Chad, the media acts like being vicious and holding winning as the highest standard is wrong...

and what's right is for Jets fans to act like Giants fans, sipping gin and tonics and giving golf claps for people when they get hurt.

It's a fake morality that no one really subscribes to, not even 'classier' fans of other teams.

No one cares if you have heart or are a good guy. Its nice if you don't kill animals and love your family but it's not the thing.

All anyone wants is to win.

i was there live, and it was a derisive cheer, it was anti-Chad and while I was embarrassed at the time, and didn't cheer, I am no longer embarrassed. this is the NFL, this is survival of the fittest. if wanting to win makes us classless than f--k everyone else, i guess im just a classless Jets fan. there is no way Chad's limpy arm can win the Super Bowl or even lead a comeback effort in a regular season game. the fan base knew that, the Pats were working us, so they cheered.

Im sure i'll be there next week or next year when we the fans cheer some other unspeakable action and the media acts indignant about it. Screw em.

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No one cares if you have heart or are a good guy. Its nice if you don't kill animals and love your family but it's not the thing.

All anyone wants is to win.

I suppose that's the same motivation for stealing signs,taking steroids, just win baby. Win at all costs.

But apparently, killing animals is NOT acceptable, even if you are a great athlete. So there is a morality at work here, and it isnt fake.

And wanting to win doesnt have to encompass being vicious as a fan, because you still go to work the next day, whether the team wins or loses, whether you act like a normal person or a psychotic when at the games.

i was there live, and it was a derisive cheer, it was anti-Chad and while I was embarrassed at the time, and didn't cheer, I am no longer embarrassed. this is the NFL, this is survival of the fittest. if wanting to win makes us classless than f--k everyone else, i guess im just a classless Jets fan.

First you were embarrassed but now you're not? That's very Kerryesque.

The injury to Chad, and the reality of Clemens getting his chance is what it is, whether the fans act with class and dignity about it or not. The reality of the situation is happening- and that doesnt change whether the fans are vicious or classless, or not. Being vicious AS A FAN OF THE GAME because you want to win has no bearing on what happens on the field- it's just a reflection of you.

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First you were embarrassed but now you're not? That's very Kerryesque.

i can change my mind, that makes me great

hey also you have something to say to me about that, there are other boards with forums for that. don't make me call you bush-esque and tell you how great a President he has been.

back to the Jets i root for the team no matter what, if that means we are the lowest form of human life on the planet, so be it. I haven't abandoned the cause this far in, i'm not going to abandon it now because people in the media think the crowd is stupid. Mobs aren't dumb, we can smell weakness and Chad has it in spades. The guy has laid it all out there for the team and while i appreciate that, I can't apologize for the fans either - the cheer is because everyone knew Chad wasn't winning this game or any other very big game in the future. 41-0 against the Colts on the bad trays was a long long time ago.

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I suppose that's the same motivation for stealing signs,taking steroids, just win baby. Win at all costs.

But apparently, killing animals is NOT acceptable, even if you are a great athlete. So there is a morality at work here, and it isnt fake.

I think you may have misunderstood him a bit, or perhaps I misunderstood what he is saying. I don't think he is condoning criminal acts or abandoning following rules and fairplay, but I think he is saying none of that enhances your talent and ability and in the end you have to be judged as a player by your results. Mother Teresa does/did a lot of good I'm sure, but she definitely should not start for the NY Jets at QB.

LT is the best RB in football and happens to be a classy guy. He didn't become the best RB in football because everybody liked him, but by his talent and production, and then people just happened to like him because of how he conducts himself on top of that.

TO or Randy Moss are probably the best WRs in the NFL, especially talent wise. They are both jackasses, and I think TO hurts the teams he plays on, but nonetheless, enough people believe in his ability and he provides production so that he has a job and supporters.

Then there is Vick who is in jail because he is a criminal.

Chad's not a criminal, and perhaps he has the same positive qualities of LT, but he simply would never be picked ahead of LT if you were starting a professional football team. He just is not talented enough, at least, that is how the argument goes.

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Need some proof to back it up? OK, case in point:

7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Pats have the ball, it's a 2nd down and 6, Pats are up 21-7. As bad as the Jets are playing, they are still in this. OK, so our defense calls an all out blitz. The Pats as we now know, know whats coming and line-up with one WR on the field.

OK this is what kills me- at what point does Mangini, or Sutton or even Vilma call a time-out? You have an all out blitz on this play, and the Pats send you a red flag TELLING YOU THEY ARE KEEPING EVERYBODY IN TO BLOCK by having only one WR lineup.

And yet, amazingly, not only do the Jets blitz, but Brady has enough time to connect on a 51 yard passing play - 51 YARDS!!!!- to a solo WR who is triple teamed by our secondary.

He had "only" three D-backs covering him of course because one of them was in the blitz package.

It was only after that TD that the game got away from the Jets and turned into a blowout.

Let me get this straight: Your opponent is calling a passing play into triple coverage when you have an "all-out blitz" on and you want to call a timeout? If the Jets stole the Pats signals that's the D I'd have used against that play.

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I think you may have misunderstood him a bit, or perhaps I misunderstood what he is saying.

Nah, i was just playing, like he was when he replied to me. :)

It is funny that he gave his long-winded ;-) explanation as to why he is no longer embarrassed at the derisive cheer that went up in the stadium when Pennington was injured, but not much of an explanation as to why he was embarrassed about it to begin with. ;-)

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Here is my take on the whole thing...

In all my years as a Jets fan (And that is ALOT of years) The only time I have seen a Jets fanbase so divided on the QB situation is with Todd and Matt Robinson back in 1979.

If there had been an internet or message boards back then there is no doubt that there would have been bloodshed.

I have do doubt that those cheers were from the Clemens side who were finally going to get a chance to see what he can do. Fans of struggling teams always think that the next guy can do the job. We all felt that way when Chad came in for Vinny in 02.

When Vinny snapped his achillies in the 99 opener that stadium was so dead silent you could hear a pin drop. You know why ? Because EVERY Jets fan in that stadium knew that their Super Bowl dreams had just gone down the tubes.

Cheering for Clemens at that spot was/is the same thing as cheering Chad getting hurt.

I hope he does well. It's going to take 6-8 games probably before he is comfortable. Hopefully he is not the second coming of Browning Nagle. Right now we just don't know.

We are going to find out though.

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