The numbers we can judge KC by

[BReal32]

let me start by saying that i new to these boards, only posted a few times, but visit and read almost everyday. i am a Pennington supported and fan but not apologist. i love what he brings to the field with him, though frustrating at times. that being said, i have no problem with Clemens coming in to play because of this injury (if it is true) but i don't agree with the people, mostly the KC Fan Club (you know who you are) who have said that we can't expect too much out of him as this will be his first real taste of the NFL. (sorry no link, just see the Chads out 4-6 weeks... thread)

Chad Pennington's numbers after starting 15 games in 2002:

comp att comp % yards ypa td int rush yards td

276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 29 49 2

i want Clemens to be great when it is his time to play, but if this year turns out to be 2002 all over again, i will definitely use these numbers for comparison. if KC is as good as a lot of people on here are saying and a better option than Pennington right now, there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year. i just have to see with my own eyes that all this Chad bashing and Chad vs. KC debate is legitimate.

[Thai Jet]

let me start by saying that i new to these boards, only posted a few times, but visit and read almost everyday. i am a Pennington supported and fan but not apologist. i love what he brings to the field with him, though frustrating at times. that being said, i have no problem with Clemens coming in to play because of this injury (if it is true) but i don't agree with the people, mostly the KC Fan Club (you know who you are) who have said that we can't expect too much out of him as this will be his first real taste of the NFL. (sorry no link, just see the Chads out 4-6 weeks... thread)

Chad Pennington's numbers after starting 15 games in 2002:

comp att comp % yards ypa td int rush yards td

276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 29 49 2

i want Clemens to be great when it is his time to play, but if this year turns out to be 2002 all over again, i will definitely use these numbers for comparison. if KC is as good as a lot of people on here are saying and a better option than Pennington right now, there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year. i just have to see with my own eyes that all this Chad bashing and Chad vs. KC debate is legitimate.

Nice post. Welcome to JN and post more often.

[penningtonfan82]

Great job with this, I'm happy someone is trying to visually get an idea of KC before parading him through as the next Namath. Once we see, we will know. Welcome aboard!

[BReal32]

thanks. i'm just trying to give some way of evaluating him. all anyone ever says here is KC's better or Chad's the guy we need out there....etc......

no one really uses any other tools for comparison besides "because i said so..."

[Barton]

Totally unrealistic. There is no chance Clemens comes in a throws 22tds/6ints like Chad did in 2002.

BTW, 2002 was Chads 3rd year in the league. This season is Clemen

[penningtonfan82]

It is realistic! Chad was able to put these numbers up, why can't Kellen? It remains to be seen...

[SpartanJet]

let me start by saying that i new to these boards, only posted a few times, but visit and read almost everyday. i am a Pennington supported and fan but not apologist. i love what he brings to the field with him, though frustrating at times. that being said, i have no problem with Clemens coming in to play because of this injury (if it is true) but i don't agree with the people, mostly the KC Fan Club (you know who you are) who have said that we can't expect too much out of him as this will be his first real taste of the NFL. (sorry no link, just see the Chads out 4-6 weeks... thread)

Chad Pennington's numbers after starting 15 games in 2002:

comp att comp % yards ypa td int rush yards td

276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 29 49 2

i want Clemens to be great when it is his time to play, but if this year turns out to be 2002 all over again, i will definitely use these numbers for comparison. if KC is as good as a lot of people on here are saying and a better option than Pennington right now, there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year. i just have to see with my own eyes that all this Chad bashing and Chad vs. KC debate is legitimate.

Can we hold Chad to those very same numbers?

I mean he did that in 2002, nobody can take that away from him he was unbelievable that year. This is 2007, and Chad hasn't come close to those numbers himself. Last year he had the yardage but threw more INTs than TD's, nowhwere near his godly 22 to 6 TD/INTs from 2002.

Chad hasn't been the same since his injuries, and I'd think it would be unfair to expect those numbers from KC with this offensive line (the 2002 Jets were better, period).

[124]

It is realistic! Chad was able to put these numbers up, why can't Kellen? It remains to be seen...

So then can we compare Clemens by Chad's stats since 2002 which have been much less than impressive? You cannot compare Kellen to Chad's one magic season. Other than 2002, what exactly has he done? Nothing.

[124]

Oh, and lets not forget, as Barton said, your boy Chad had more than 2 years of learning under Testaverde. KC? 1 year and 1 game. Lets see what happens.

Whether a QB is horrible or great his first year, you have to look past his first year. Anyone can step in and have a magic season. The key is what do you do after that to improve because after that first season all defenses around the league have your game tapes.

On the other side, if you struggle, can you improve?

Lets see what Kellen can do.

[4HCrew]

All Jet fans have is hope that Kellen can be productive this season...if not....ouch

[JetCane]

All Jet fans have is hope that Kellen can be productive this season...if not....ouch

I think he can be productive, as soon as loses that deer in the headlights thing. Hopefully, he'll get past that ASAP and start playing ball like he is capable of.

[Sperm Edwards]

This is silly. CHAD hasn't been able to match Chad's #'s from 2002. I didn't notice any Chad>Jesus people suggesting that he be held to his OWN "standard" of play since then.

Tell me what happens when we replace "Clemens" with "Chad" now:

"if [CHAD] is as good as a lot of people on here are saying...there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year."

Now if I had made a statement like that, suggesting Chad should only be starting if he had a full season comparable to his one outstanding almost-season, then I'm a "hater" who isn't a real Jets fan.

This is hypocrisy of the highest order.

If Clemens shows some promise, then I won't be totally upset. But anyone who thinks that Pennington's presence would have made the difference between a breaking-in-Kellen season & the superbowl is walking through life with blinders on.

To pick out one favorite player's best season & say to a first-year player - on a team with no OL - that you must beat that one season, or you should still be #2, is hardly a supportive statement.

Don't worry - if Clemens is that awful, then in time he'll get bashed plenty by the same people who bashed Chad. I mean, we didn't give Clemens a $64M contract, but why split hairs? But ultimately it would be for the same reason: the desire for a championship & the belief that the current QB can't compensate enough for shortcomings elsewhere on the team to get us there. If Clemens sucks, and it doesn't look like the only thing he lacks is experience, then I won't be the lone voice of dissent suggesting we give him a couple of years of other players' careers to waste.

Truth is, with the egg OR with Clemens, our OL & DL are so bad that only perfect alignment of the stars & some NE-style cheating would get us to a superbowl.

[Kentucky Jet]

let me start by saying that i new to these boards, only posted a few times, but visit and read almost everyday. i am a Pennington supported and fan but not apologist. i love what he brings to the field with him, though frustrating at times. that being said, i have no problem with Clemens coming in to play because of this injury (if it is true) but i don't agree with the people, mostly the KC Fan Club (you know who you are) who have said that we can't expect too much out of him as this will be his first real taste of the NFL. (sorry no link, just see the Chads out 4-6 weeks... thread)

Chad Pennington's numbers after starting 15 games in 2002:

comp att comp % yards ypa td int rush yards td

276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 29 49 2

i want Clemens to be great when it is his time to play, but if this year turns out to be 2002 all over again, i will definitely use these numbers for comparison. if KC is as good as a lot of people on here are saying and a better option than Pennington right now, there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year. i just have to see with my own eyes that all this Chad bashing and Chad vs. KC debate is legitimate.

and exactly what were Chad's stats in his very first start after relieveing VINNY? Giving stats for the first 15 games rather then in a comprable game( game 1) is very telling. Further, did CHAD play his first game on the road against a top 5 defense? If we are going to write threads, lets make them fair and balanced! Then we have to address other issues for your post to be valid. Our team and OL was MUCH better in Chad's first playing season in 2002. The teams on the schedule were easier then the ones we will be facing in 2007. I see your post as a way of dissing Kellen under the guise of TEAM sports. But you are too obvious IMO. So use whatever numbers you want to compare players like Chad and Kellen. The teams and times are all different so numbers will be an exercise in futility! Why not just hope that Kellen, if he has to play, does well and we win some games? Why are comparisons necessary under the guise of " I want Kellen to do great"? i love the name you are using: BReal! In the final analysis, it is still a TEAM game and hero worship means Zilch! Why is it so necessary for so many alleged Jets fans to be against Kellen or against CHAD? United we win; divided we lose! I have asked this before and it never is answered. If CHAD is traded to KC in the off-season, will you become a CHIEFS fan?

[BReal32]

very true, chads numbers haven't continued like 2002. but the guys got a winning record and three playoff appearances in 5 years. i totally agree with the argument that we can't hold KC to these numbers since Chad can't even match them. but can we hold him to Chad's 5 year numbers? in five years will Clemens still be the guy if he only has the same record but does it with a cannon arm slinging it all over the field? i'm just trying to have some way to evaluate and compare the two. these boards are full of Chad and KC bashing with no real stats thrown around.

and if we can't expect KC to match those #'s with this OLine what can we really expect out of Chad. whether he has a great game or a a poor game on Sunday, people are going to be on these boards making totally outrageous statements. it's just very annoying to see everyone with blinders on for their favorite QB on this team. i like Chad. i like KC. i just want to see clear cut that KC is the right option now and even after Chad's injury heals (if this is true) it's tough to give up on a guy who's brought us to the playoffs 3 of 5 years for an unproven rookie just because someone said so...

[BReal32]

and exactly what were Chad's stats in his very first start after relieveing VINNY? Giving stats for the first 15 games rather then in a comprable game( game 1) is very telling. Further, did CHAD play his first game on the road against a top 5 defense? If we are going to write threads, lets make them fair and balanced! Then we have to address other issues for your post to be valid. Our team and OL was MUCH better in Chad's first playing season in 2002. The teams on the schedule were easier then the ones we will be facing in 2007. I see your post as a way of dissing Kellen under the guise of TEAM sports. But you are too obvious IMO. So use whatever numbers you want to compare players like Chad and Kellen. The teams and times are all different so numbers will be an exercise in futility! Why not just hope that Kellen, if he has to play, does well and we win some games? Why are comparisons necessary under the guise of " I want Kellen to do great"? i love the name you are using: BReal! In the final analysis, it is still a TEAM game and hero worship means Zilch! Why is it so necessary for so many alleged Jets fans to be against Kellen or against CHAD? United we win; divided we lose! I have asked this before and it never is answered. If CHAD is traded to KC in the off-season, will you become a CHIEFS fan?

where am i against Clemens and a Chad lover. i'm trying to figure out at what point do we say scrap Chad and go with Kellen? you Clemens fans are getting all over anybody who wants to believe in Chad. i believe in both, but at what point do decide that Chad (if healthy) is still not a better option than KC to win some games this year. it's only been one game and Chad played pretty decent. if Clemens steps in and lights it up....then hell yeah stay with him. if he's mediocre, don't you think it would be smart to stay with Chad and develop Kellen further? are we ready to potentially throw away a one game old season? i'm not and at this time Chad is still the best option until this season has gone totally down the tubes. i'm not ready to write of this season yet. next year let competition start all over again. please don't bash me and call me a chad lover/apologist because i don't want to potentially waste a one game old season.

[JetCane]

where am i against Clemens and a Chad lover. i'm trying to figure out at what point do we say scrap Chad and go with Kellen? you Clemens fans are getting all over anybody who wants to believe in Chad. i believe in both, but at what point do decide that Chad (if healthy) is still not a better option than KC to win some games this year. it's only been one game and Chad played pretty decent. if Clemens steps in and lights it up....then hell yeah stay with him. if he's mediocre, don't you think it would be smart to stay with Chad and develop Kellen further? are we ready to potentially throw away a one game old season? i'm not and at this time Chad is still the best option until this season has gone totally down the tubes. i'm not ready to write of this season yet. next year let competition start all over again. please don't bash me and call me a chad lover/apologist because i don't want to potentially waste a one game old season.

It's not you- it's just KJ being divisive again.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's not you- it's just KJ being divisive again.

We got shut out twice just last season.

Rally behind your team's new QB.

Divisive hater.

[JetCane]

We got shut out twice just last season.

Rally behind your team's new QB.

Divisive hater.

LOL!

Yes, i hate on divisives, you got that right.

[gang_green03]

This is silly. CHAD hasn't been able to match Chad's #'s from 2002. I didn't notice any Chad>Jesus people suggesting that he be held to his OWN "standard" of play since then.

Tell me what happens when we replace "Clemens" with "Chad" now:

"if [CHAD] is as good as a lot of people on here are saying...there's no reason he can't match Chad's first year."

Now if I had made a statement like that, suggesting Chad should only be starting if he had a full season comparable to his one outstanding almost-season, then I'm a "hater" who isn't a real Jets fan.

This is hypocrisy of the highest order.

If Clemens shows some promise, then I won't be totally upset. But anyone who thinks that Pennington's presence would have made the difference between a breaking-in-Kellen season & the superbowl is walking through life with blinders on.

To pick out one favorite player's best season & say to a first-year player - on a team with no OL - that you must beat that one season, or you should still be #2, is hardly a supportive statement.

Don't worry - if Clemens is that awful, then in time he'll get bashed plenty by the same people who bashed Chad. I mean, we didn't give Clemens a $64M contract, but why split hairs? But ultimately it would be for the same reason: the desire for a championship & the belief that the current QB can't compensate enough for shortcomings elsewhere on the team to get us there. If Clemens sucks, and it doesn't look like the only thing he lacks is experience, then I won't be the lone voice of dissent suggesting we give him a couple of years of other players' careers to waste.

Truth is, with the egg OR with Clemens, our OL & DL are so bad that only perfect alignment of the stars & some NE-style cheating would get us to a superbowl.

I agree with this for the most part, nicely put.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I feel like a broken record...who cares what the numbers are, who the QB is or anything else to make a point that suits your agenda...JUST WIN SOME FREAKEN GAMES!