From the biggest Chad fan ever:It doesn't matter!

[lancemehl]

I love Chad, I think I've made that clear to anyone who knows me, in real life or cyber-life.

But, guess what? It doesn't matter. I want him to play. I think he will, but who cares.

Did anyone watch that defense. Same crap as last year. This "so called" genius did NOTHING to make this a 3-4 team.

He's only 34. He only knows the 3-4. He's tasted greatness with it. But we don't have Wilfork or Seymour or Vrable. We have guys that the 80% of the league has, the ones that know they need to play the 4-3.

Actually, let's see what Clemons got, screw it. Give the kid a shot. We ain't winning with Chad or Peyton Manning for that matter.

Why did Vilma dominate Nebraska in the BCS Championship, why did he dominate here in the 4-3, and suck now? Where is he? Where is that guy #92, we got him #12 overall? He used to be a bada$$ for us under the old CS, where is he?

How about the 4-3 lineman we took fourth OVERALL!!!!! Where is he????

Our #1 CB was out. We had a rookie on Randy Moss and there were times Brady couldn't find anyone. Do we expect Revis and Dyson to blanket their receivers for 10 seconds.

What do we do against a mobile QB? What are we going to do against a good RB. Sammy Morris?? I bet Kevan Barlow would rush for 120 on us.

Enough with the Chad posts, it doesn't matter. Play Clemons, I'm curious. We know Chad's a warrior, bring him back if Clemons sux, but we aren't winning with either.

Get that through our heads.

Not with this defense.

[joewilly]

This is the 1st thread I looked at since the loss. good post & I agree with the defensive problems.

I'm sure this has been hashed a lot here but chad doesn't seem mobile at all in the pocket. other qb's I watch step up or slide one way or another gracefully. Chad looks sluggish & slow when the pressure comes.

I guess he's out for a while eh?

[LionelRichie]

as disappointing as the game was you can't put all of the blame on mangini. he had 3 jets overing moss and moss still caught the ball. that is not a scheme problem it is a player problem. mangini can put barret in the right place all game and if he can't tackle wes welker 1-on-1 there is nothing mangini can do. if vilma is so great why the hell can't he cover watson 1-on-1 on the goal line. 4-3/3-4 you still need to play. vilma, barret, miller, and coleman were all abused in the passing game. if you have 7 covering 3 sounds good in theory but if the players break down you get 38-14.

[Irish Jet]

Enough with the Chad posts, it doesn't matter. Play Clemons, I'm curious. We know Chad's a warrior, bring him back if Clemons sux, but we aren't winning with either.

Get that through our heads.

Firstly,Its Clemens. NOT CLEMONS!!

Chad is better than him, to put it simply.

If he wasnt, he wouldnt have started vs The Pats last week.

Kellen came in, looked terrible, while Chad even when crippled looked great.

Kelly has never shown anything vs anything other than vanilla 2nd string defences. He has done nothing to merit taking the starting spot from Chad. NOTHING!!

[lancemehl]

I guess he's out for a while eh?

Does it matter,really? Did you see our defense? Chad's mobility in the pocket? Is that what you took away from that game, for real?

Is that why we lost lost, because Chad's not mobile enough?

We lost because our defense is SWISS CHEESE!

[lancemehl]

he had 3 jets overing moss and moss still caught the ball. that is not a scheme problem it is a player problem. mangini can put barret in the right place all game and if he can't tackle wes welker 1-on-1 there is nothing mangini can do. if vilma is so great why the hell can't he cover watson 1-on-1 on the goal line. 4-3/3-4 you still need to play. vilma, barret, miller, and coleman were all abused in the passing game. if you have 7 covering 3 sounds good in theory but if the players break down you get 38-14.

Can you put the blame on the defense? The fact that Brady was never once pressured?

The run defense getting lit up?

[DMaynard]

Kelly has never shown anything vs anything other than vanilla 2nd string defences. He has done nothing to merit taking the starting spot from Chad. NOTHING!!

He didn't have to, just being the #2 QB gets you the starting job when #1 gets injured. Now, the question is, can he earn keeping the job. We shall see.

[gang_green03]

People are so sure that a different scheme solves all our problems. We'd have holes either way.

The 4-3 just creates new problems to take the place of others. Vilma is back in his ideal situation but now Thomas is a waste. D-Rob is mediocore in both schemes. We'd still need a NT. Harris no longer has an effective position. Coleman no longer has an effective position. Who's our RE? The only thing the 4-3 really does for our front 7 is reverse Vilma and Thomas in terms of being underutilized.

The 3-4 is a more versitale defense, but its harder to find the right players for it. Give it time. If we had a great NT and tweener this defense would look a lot different.

Plus if you wanna place blame on this last game then place it on the players. The coaches can only do so much. They have to execute on the field and they did not do that.

[lancemehl]

Firstly,Its Clemens. NOT CLEMONS!!

Chad is better than him, to put it simply.

If he wasnt, he wouldnt have started vs The Pats last week.

Kellen came in, looked terrible, while Chad even when crippled looked great.

Kelly has never shown anything vs anything other than vanilla 2nd string defences. He has done nothing to merit taking the starting spot from Chad. NOTHING!!

Oh, I'm sorry, I'll re-phrase that, Sir. It doesn't matter if Chad play or CLEMENS with an "E", NOT AN "O", plays, we aren't winning a single game with that defense.

And if you're trying to convince me that Chad is better than ClemEns, save it, I already know that.

[DMaynard]

People are so sure that a different scheme solves all our problems. We'd have holes either way.

The 4-3 just creates new problems to take the place of others. Vilma is back in his ideal situation but now Thomas is a waste. D-Rob is mediocore in both schemes. We'd still need a NT. Harris no longer has an effective position. Coleman no longer has an effective position. Who's our RE? The only thing the 4-3 really does for our front 7 is reverse Vilma and Thomas in terms of being underutilized.

The 3-4 is a more versitale defense, but its harder to find the right players for it. Give it time. If we had a great NT and tweener this defense would look a lot different.

Plus if you wanna place blame on this last game then place it on the players. The coaches can only do so much. They have to execute on the field and they did not do that.

Very astute post. It takes time. Bradway/Herm never got there in 5 years with the 4-3. I am willing to give Tangini more than 1 year and 1 game before I throw them under the bus.

[lancemehl]

If we had a great NT and tweener this defense would look a lot different.

.

Whose job is it to get those players?

Look, I love the Jets, and I can't stand to see them making average running backs look like Eric Dickerson EVERY Friggin week. That's all.

No, I'm not sure what scheme to insert, I'm not a coach, but I've watched a full season and a game of Garbage Defense from a unit with 7 first/second rounders.

I'm getting physically sick watching Ronnie Brown and Sammy Morris light us up. It's making me sick that QB's have 7 seconds to throw the ball and the pocket is only growing.

If this was opening day against the Falcons last year Mike Vick would've

had 200 yards rushing.

[joewilly]

Does it matter,really? Did you see our defense? Chad's mobility in the pocket? Is that what you took away from that game, for real?

Is that why we lost lost, because Chad's not mobile enough?

We lost because our defense is SWISS CHEESE!

I took much from the game. yes our defense sucked. yes our o-line sucked. yes our running game sucked.

there has been much debate about chad on this board all summer pal. Never once did I read about chads mobility in the pocket. it was all pretty much armstrength vs smarts.

well he's not very good in the pocket. He is not savvy enough in the pocket either to overcome his poor mobility.

[lancemehl]

Very astute post. It takes time. Bradway/Herm never got there in 5 years with the 4-3. I am willing to give Tangini more than 1 year and 1 game before I throw them under the bus.

So, can you give me an ETA on that. Like week 6? When? Next year? So,we should play Clemens. It should never have been an issue.

As long as we won't have an NFL caliper Defense for a while, let's see what the second round pick's got.

By the way, can I get an astute synopsis on when DBrickashaw Fergusan is going to blossom?

Around the same time as the D?

[drago]

chad will cut off his legs, give one to d-rob, and one to brick. d rop will shove half in his arse, to get extra support so he doesn't get pushed into the endzone from the 50 on every play. and brick will use it as a beating stick...hopefully it will smell bad too, so he can wipe it on the DE's face.

not sure what we can do with his arms...maybe add some pasta sauce and feed it to patsvantexas for some noodle delight.

i get his heart. i'm hungry.

[JohnnyLV]

Firstly,Its Clemens. NOT CLEMONS!!

Chad is better than him, to put it simply.

If he wasnt, he wouldnt have started vs The Pats last week.

Kellen came in, looked terrible, while Chad even when crippled looked great.

Kelly has never shown anything vs anything other than vanilla 2nd string defences. He has done nothing to merit taking the starting spot from Chad. NOTHING!!

Spoken like only a blind-faith Chad fan could.

[lancemehl]

I took much from the game. yes our defense sucked. yes our o-line sucked. yes our running game sucked.

there has been much debate about chad on this board all summer pal. Never once did I read about chads mobility in the pocket. it was all pretty much armstrength vs smarts.

well he's not very good in the pocket. He is not savvy enough in the pocket either to overcome his poor mobility.

Fair enough, Pal.

I just thank God Brady isn't mobile either or the score would've been 100-17.

[gang_green03]

Whose job is it to get those players?

Look, I love the Jets, and I can't stand to see them making average running backs look like Eric Dickerson EVERY Friggin week. That's all.

No, I'm not sure what scheme to insert, I'm not a coach, but I've watched a full season and a game of Garbage Defense from a unit with 7 first/second rounders.

I'm getting physically sick watching Ronnie Brown and Sammy Morris light us up. It's making me sick that QB's have 7 seconds to throw the ball and the pocket is only growing.

If this was opening day against the Falcons last year Mike Vick would've

had 200 yards rushing.

You can't overhaul an entire team in 1 season. They had the offense to worry about also you know. Not everything is an instant fix. They took steps to improve the defesne in the draft and offseason. At least give it a reasonable amount of time before you go crazy.

[joewilly]

Fair enough, Pal.

I just thank God Brady isn't mobile either or the score would've been 100-17.

brady has amazing pocket presence. He rarely gets sacked. Sure he has the better o line but his skills make the oline better.

We're gonna suffer thru some mistakes & poor decisions by clemens but I for one am anxious to see what we've got. we know what we have in chad, a good qb with a huge heart.

we need a great qb if we wanna compete with 60% of the afc teams these days.

Is clemens great? no one knows. lets find out if we need to go shopping for one this offseason

[gang_green03]

So, can you give me an ETA on that. Like week 6? When? Next year? So,we should play Clemens. It should never have been an issue.

As long as we won't have an NFL caliper Defense for a while, let's see what the second round pick's got.

By the way, can I get an astute synopsis on when DBrickashaw Fergusan is going to blossom?

Around the same time as the D?

Yea more than a year and 1 game.

You can't build a great defense in a year.

Not every young player comes in and dominates from the get go.

A rebuilding process usually takes more than a year.

[Sperm Edwards]

tbZFU7X3Qjo

[Irish Jet]

Spoken like only a blind-faith Chad fan could.

Please explain.

Name something, one thing in that post thats not true.

[lancemehl]

Yea more than a year and 1 game.

You can't build a great defense in a year.

Not every young player comes in and dominates from the get go.

A rebuilding process usually takes more than a year.

but should Vilma(first round) be better or worse in his third year?

Should D-Rob(#4 overall) be better or worse in year 4?

Should Ellis(#12 overall) be in his prime and a leader on that defense after what we saw from him in the 4-3 or should he be non-existant?

Shouldn't these guys be studs by now? Vilma was! Ellis was! What happened?????

They guys WERE already good!!!!!!

That's my point.

Judging from the last 17 games copy/paste these names and put D next to them for declining play and B for Blossoming like the true talents they are:

Vilma

D-Rob

Ellis

Hobson

Thank GOD for our secondary,namely Rhodes, Revis, and Dyson(hopefully when he comes back). Our three good players and E Coleman ,our servicable player.Without their coverage the pats score 100. With a mobil QB,like Vick or Cunningham,they score 100.

[Sperm Edwards]

I notice that Bryan Thomas' name is conspicuously missing. Not that he had anything resembling a great game Sunday, but he's WAY better in a 3-4.

Hobson is about the same; an average, nothing-special/not-bad starter in either scheme.

Ellis may be ok in the 3-4 if we had a true NT, but he's not worth the $15M SB we gave him in either scheme. He wasn't "blossoming" in the 4-3 either.

Vilma was far better in the 4-3 but wasn't the great player Jets fans make him out to be. He didn't stop runners cold enough to be "great" - gets dragged a lot.

DRob was never great in the 4-3 either, though he had a few great games. But lots of not-great players have had great games here & there. His cap # jumps back up to the $9M range again next year, so he's getting cut or traded after the season unless Mangini suddenly doesn't care about using a 3-4 anymore (yeah, right). He was never worth the #4 pick, the 3 picks we traded away to move up to #4, or the bloated cap space he's carried.

[penningtonfan82]

I sometimes like to think I am the biggest chad fan , all of us who are honest know Chad is the man, and you are absolutely right about the D.

[lancemehl]

I notice that Bryan Thomas' name is conspicuously missing. Not that he had anything resembling a great game Sunday, but he's WAY better in a 3-4.

Hobson is about the same; an average, nothing-special/not-bad starter in either scheme.

Ellis may be ok in the 3-4 if we had a true NT, but he's not worth the $15M SB we gave him in either scheme. He wasn't "blossoming" in the 4-3 either.

Vilma was far better in the 4-3 but wasn't the great player Jets fans make him out to be. He didn't stop runners cold enough to be "great" - gets dragged a lot.

DRob was never great in the 4-3 either, though he had a few great games. But lots of not-great players have had great games here & there. His cap # jumps back up to the $9M range again next year, so he's getting cut or traded after the season unless Mangini suddenly doesn't care about using a 3-4 anymore (yeah, right). He was never worth the #4 pick, the 3 picks we traded away to move up to #4, or the bloated cap space he's carried.

I wanted Bryan Thomas to be special this year, Sperm, I really did. Remember, I mistakingly compared him to LT and got jumped on, but, where was he. Nowhere near the QB, I know that.

Put Vilma on a 4-3 team and I guarantee he's Pro Bowl material.

Ellis wasn't "blossoming"?,really? I thought so. I don't remember a single person complaining about picking him up at 12.

Our number two tackler was the rookie,Revis, who I loved watching play. He had 7 tackles,5 were solo. Our third was Barrett with 6 tackles,all solo. Throw in 0 sacks,0 hurries,0 pressures and That is not good.

Coleman had a nice game, in the #'s at least.

look,sperm, I don't want to set myself up as a guy who needs us to suck so i look like i know what I'm talking about. I hope we turn this around, but, so far the Mangini era defense has sukked.

I don't want to act like I'm a defensive wizard either, but all I know is we used to swarm and hit, now we don't.

let's go, week 2! Hold McGahee under 200 and we got a shot.

[Barton]

I notice that Bryan Thomas' name is conspicuously missing. Not that he had anything resembling a great game Sunday, but he's WAY better in a 3-4.

Hobson is about the same; an average, nothing-special/not-bad starter in either scheme.

Ellis may be ok in the 3-4 if we had a true NT, but he's not worth the $15M SB we gave him in either scheme. He wasn't "blossoming" in the 4-3 either.

Vilma was far better in the 4-3 but wasn't the great player Jets fans make him out to be. He didn't stop runners cold enough to be "great" - gets dragged a lot.

DRob was never great in the 4-3 either, though he had a few great games. But lots of not-great players have had great games here & there. His cap # jumps back up to the $9M range again next year, so he's getting cut or traded after the season unless Mangini suddenly doesn't care about using a 3-4 anymore (yeah, right). He was never worth the #4 pick, the 3 picks we traded away to move up to #4, or the bloated cap space he's carried.

Exactly.

This defense isnt great in the 4-3 either, Ellis was nonexistant in 2005 as a 4-3 end how soon we forget that.

Anyways, lance. Its going to take years. Rome was not built in a day.

By 2010 all the pieces on defense should be ready to be superbowl quality. Until then, just be patient.

[gang_green03]

but should Vilma(first round) be better or worse in his third year?

Should D-Rob(#4 overall) be better or worse in year 4?

Should Ellis(#12 overall) be in his prime and a leader on that defense after what we saw from him in the 4-3 or should he be non-existant?

Shouldn't these guys be studs by now? Vilma was! Ellis was! What happened?????

They guys WERE already good!!!!!!

That's my point.

Judging from the last 17 games copy/paste these names and put D next to them for declining play and B for Blossoming like the true talents they are:

Vilma

D-Rob

Ellis

Hobson

Thank GOD for our secondary,namely Rhodes, Revis, and Dyson(hopefully when he comes back). Our three good players and E Coleman ,our servicable player.Without their coverage the pats score 100. With a mobil QB,like Vick or Cunningham,they score 100.

Vilma was great in the 4-3 but might not be suited for the 3-4. Still remains to be seen but if he can't show significant improvement this year than we have to trade him because he'll cost way to much to keep and it won't be worth it. No question there that he was hurt by the defensive change.

D-Rob wasn't great in the 4-3 either. The only time he had a fairly good season was when he had a NT next to him to eat up blocks. Never worth the price we paid for him. What did you see from him in the 4-3? I didn't see much. He's replaced by a true NT if he doesn't learn how to hold at the point and draw double teams this year.

Ellis was a very good 4-3 end, albeit a little overpaid. He's still in the above average to good range as a 3-4 end. The problem is that we don't have a NT which is the centerpiece of the entire defense in this scheme.

Hobson is solid in either scheme. Nothing more nothing less but should be playing on the inside in the 3-4. Could stand to be upgraded either way.

Again, we had problems in the 4-3 so the scheme isn't that big of a deal. Give Mangini time to get the right pieces in place.

Though I will be all over Mangini if he doesn't bring in a NT (assuming Robertson doesn't all of a sudden wake up) or rush OLB in the offseason. And not a project but guys that are expected to contribute fairly quickly.