NY JETS 29 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 IF the Jets can get a run game going early with TJ and Leon I expect Shotty to take some shots with KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman88 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 All you bandwagon KC fans will drop him after a few games if he plays poor and be pushing for a qb trade or a draft pick-up next season. Chad Pennington for president! Ok and whats wrong with that? Everyone who wants Kellen in has repeatedly said if he shows he can't make it as an NFL QB we want to find a QB who is good. We're not KC fans, we're Jets fans. Chad isn't the answer so KC should get his shot, if KC isn't the answer a new QB needs to be brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Sperm, I always respect when you disagree with me and i find you a very knowledable fan with whom I enjoy talking Jets football with, but,man, I read that post 3 times and I have no f---ing idea what you are saying!Sorry. Carson Palmer is the Bengals starter.period. He has proved himself. If his backup(whoever that is) had to start for a game and played lights out I wouldn't expect Palmer to be benched. Palmer and Chad had very similar games against great defenses last week. The difference was Chad scored a TD drive one one foot and left the game early because it was over.......... WHICH SEGWAYS INTO MY ORIGINAL POINT: It's the defense that is the problem right now, not the starting QB!!!! No matter what KC does, he will do it as the backup QB! No worries. It was 1:22 am when I hit the submit post button. I read your post as follows: If Clemens doesn't pass for something like 300 yards, 4 TD's, and 0 interceptions, then there should be no QB controversy b/c that means he is coming up short of Pennington's level. My point is that Palmer (<200 yds, 2 TD's) didn't have a game like that when: - he was at HOME - he took all the tc snaps with the first team - his team had longer to set up their offensive gameplan with the same QB - his WR's are more dangerous - his OL is night & day better than our OL - his defense kept getting him the ball back with all those turnovers - this was far from his first NFL start So given that, I read your post to mean two things: 1) If that is the level that Clemens must surpass to be better than Chad, then Chad must also be better than Carson Palmer as well. And that if Chad & Carson were on the same team, that Palmer's performance vs Baltimore should result in his demotion to #2 behind Pennington. 2) The standard you are holding Kellen Clemens to is a higher level - a MUCH higher level - than Carson Palmer was able to perform at, despite Palmer having several significant advantages going into a game, against the same opponent. And throw into the mix that Pennington has never had a game with 300 yds, 4 TD's and 0 turnovers in his 60-game, 7-year career against any awful opponent he's ever faced. Yet in your eyes, Clemens must do this - in his first start mind you - against one of the NFL's premiere defenses. Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. And I know plenty about saying ridiculous things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 They should go with Clemens this week. You got to see what this guy has it might as well be now. Clemens, to me is a better choice this week than a hobbled Pennington. Especially against a fast, agressive defense like the Ravens. I agree They should go with Clemens this week, but only to rest Chad. If Clemens struggles, then bring in Chad. If Clemens is good enough to win,great. Rest Chad's ankle another week. Chad's QB rating is 130, 2nd in league, his completion% is 76.2%. It's 2002 all over again,baby! Let him rest, let's get a glimpse of our future, but Chad IS the starter. He's healthy. A healthy Chad= 2002 = awesome year. Chad's going to the pro bowl this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman88 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I agree They should go with Clemens this week, but only to rest Chad. If Clemens struggles, then bring in Chad. If Clemens is good enough to win,great. Rest Chad's ankle another week. Chad's QB rating is 130, 2nd in league, his completion% is 76.2%. It's 2002 all over again,baby! Let him rest, let's get a glimpse of our future, but Chad IS the starter. He's healthy. A healthy Chad= 2002 = awesome year. Chad's going to the pro bowl this year. 2002 wasn't the norm for Chad it was the aberation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 No worries. It was 1:22 am when I hit the submit post button. I read your post as follows: If Clemens doesn't pass for something like 300 yards, 4 TD's, and 0 interceptions, then there should be no QB controversy b/c that means he is coming up short of Pennington's level. My point is that Palmer (<200 yds, 2 TD's) didn't have a game like that when: - he was at HOME - he took all the tc snaps with the first team - his team had longer to set up their offensive gameplan with the same QB - his WR's are more dangerous - his OL is night & day better than our OL - his defense kept getting him the ball back with all those turnovers - this was far from his first NFL start So given that, I read your post to mean two things: 1) If that is the level that Clemens must surpass to be better than Chad, then Chad must also be better than Carson Palmer as well. And that if Chad & Carson were on the same team, that Palmer's performance vs Baltimore should result in his demotion to #2 behind Pennington. 2) The standard you are holding Kellen Clemens to is a higher level - a MUCH higher level - than Carson Palmer was able to perform at, despite Palmer having several significant advantages going into a game, against the same opponent. And throw into the mix that Pennington has never had a game with 300 yds, 4 TD's and 0 turnovers in his 60-game, 7-year career against any awful opponent he's ever faced. Yet in your eyes, Clemens must do this - in his first start mind you - against one of the NFL's premiere defenses. Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. And I know plenty about saying ridiculous things. No comment from lance?? I need an aspirin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 WHo is expecting this kid to come in and light up the Ravens defense in his first NFL start? You guys are jumping the gun a bit. If he goes out and limits his mistakes & keeps his turnovers down ,I will be happy. You have to learn to walk before you can go winning foot races. Why not? They are a hobbled team... and should be easier on D than the Pats... (the Pats D line is much better) If he cant do it why throw away the season? Let him get 4 more pre-season games next year... Exactly. Because there are somethings you don't learn from watching the game. First hand experience is crucial and he is just getting his first taste of it. You want him to go out in his first start and overcome obstacles our veteran QB couldn't overcome last week? Chad threw 2 TD's and 0INT's against a cheating team.. he did damn well all things considered... Clemens came in and went 3 and out.. There is no time for this BS about it being his first game... he has seen action in almost 10 games (pre-season and regular) and practiced A LOT with an NFL team... no excuses... You think Chad sucks so ****ing bad... but he plays better than Kellen... the Pats game was the DIRECT comparasin you all always look for... Chad came in hurt and scored... Kellen came in and went 3 and out I want the JETS to win THIS SUNDAY... not help Kellen along holding his hand for future wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Why not? They are a hobbled team... and should be easier on D than the Pats... (the Pats D line is much better) If he cant do it why throw away the season? Let him get 4 more pre-season games next year... Chad threw 2 TD's and 0INT's against a cheating team.. he did damn well all things considered... Clemens came in and went 3 and out.. There is no time for this BS about it being his first game... he has seen action in almost 10 games (pre-season and regular) and practiced A LOT with an NFL team... no excuses... You think Chad sucks so ****ing bad... but he plays better than Kellen... the Pats game was the DIRECT comparasin you all always look for... Chad came in hurt and scored... Kellen came in and went 3 and out I want the JETS to win THIS SUNDAY... not help Kellen along holding his hand for future wins... A couple of things here, bud. Chad had 2 3 and outs himself - IN THE 1st QUARTER. Ok, stop pretending he was great sunday, he wasnt. I'm pretty sure Clemens made a 1st down, and he only had a couple of drives to work with and he was thrown into the game, working with the likes of Wallace Wright at WR. Once again, Pennington gets injured. He's a f'n egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 A couple of things here, bud. Chad had 2 3 and outs himself - IN THE 1st QUARTER. Ok, stop pretending he was great sunday, he wasnt. I'm pretty sure Clemens made a 1st down, and he only had a couple of drives to work with and he was thrown into the game, working with the likes of Wallace Wright at WR. Once again, Pennington gets injured. He's a f'n egg. His first completion was to Coles, he was in there with the starters... im just sayin... Chad came in the 3rd and drove down the field for a score... Clemens came in and went 3 and out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 His first completion was to Coles, he was in there with the starters... im just sayin... Chad came in the 3rd and drove down the field for a score... Clemens came in and went 3 and out... Clemens lead the offense on 2 drives. The 1st one went 3 and out. The 2nd drive he got a 1st down, get your facts straight. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=270909020&period=4 Not much of a sample size, but you can say Clemens made progress. And Pennington had 2 3 and outs in the 1st quarter alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Ecurb, I wouldn't call myself a Clemens or Chad fan but can you please read this... The reason he cannot be held to the same standard as Chad is because he has been in the league 7 less seasons! I think you're being unfair to Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 My problem is... The people that are all over Kellen Clemens nutsack... are the EXACT same people that claim Chad is a terrible QB... Yet Kellen couldnt earn the starting job and couldnt score VS the Pats... Chad earned the job and scored VS the Pats... BUT according to barton and others... Chad sucks... If Chad sucks... and Kellen cant beat him... where does that leave Kellen... It only further proves barton and others bias against Chad... they think Chad sucks... and Kellen is good... yet Chad did better and earned the job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnys025 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 My problem is... The people that are all over Kellen Clemens nutsack... are the EXACT same people that claim Chad is a terrible QB... Yet Kellen couldnt earn the starting job and couldnt score VS the Pats... Chad earned the job and scored VS the Pats... BUT according to barton and others... Chad sucks... If Chad sucks... and Kellen cant beat him... where does that leave Kellen... It only further proves barton and others bias against Chad... they think Chad sucks... and Kellen is good... yet Chad did better and earned the job... Chad played great last week, and when the people see how KC plays this week they will be pleading for Chad to come back, unless our running game is lights out and KC only has to make a couple of passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 My problem is... The people that are all over Kellen Clemens nutsack... are the EXACT same people that claim Chad is a terrible QB... Yet Kellen couldnt earn the starting job and couldnt score VS the Pats... Chad earned the job and scored VS the Pats... BUT according to barton and others... Chad sucks... If Chad sucks... and Kellen cant beat him... where does that leave Kellen... It only further proves barton and others bias against Chad... they think Chad sucks... and Kellen is good... yet Chad did better and earned the job... You're right. I think both sides are being irrational. KC fans saying that he's better than Chad right now and that Chad sucks are going overboard. CP fans saying that Clemens needs to equal Chad in his first outing or that if he doesn't play better right off the bat he'll never be as good are goin overboard as well. I just wish people would be reasonable about the situation both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You're right. I think both sides are being irrational. KC fans saying that he's better than Chad right now and that Chad sucks are going overboard. CP fans saying that Clemens needs to equal Chad in his first outing or that if he doesn't play better right off the bat he'll never be as good are goin overboard as well. I just wish people would be reasonable about the situation both ways. I just dont want to give up on the season yet... I worry that Kellen isnt ready and shouldnt come in until the end of the year... not to mention i dont want the young QB on the team to be broken in half due to poor protection as well... I think Chad is the best option to win this sunday... thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You're right. I think both sides are being irrational. KC fans saying that he's better than Chad right now and that Chad sucks are going overboard. CP fans saying that Clemens needs to equal Chad in his first outing or that if he doesn't play better right off the bat he'll never be as good are goin overboard as well. I just wish people would be reasonable about the situation both ways. I defy you to find a post where anyone says that right now KC is better QB than Chad. The feeling is that a better than CP is required. KC may or may not be that player. You won't find out while he's on the bench. He needs real game-time & it's not as though it will thwart our otherwise favorable odds of winning a superbowl in '07. His upside is higher. I can't see how that can be denied before he's even played a few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think the anti-chad people don't believe that kellen clemens is the answer they just accept the fact that chad penington is the most fragile quarterback to ever play the game. That and he has a weak arm and even when totally healthy doesn't have a chance to lead this team to a superbowl. So they would rather lsoe with someone else than do average for the next 3-4 years with chad penninton. If Clemens sucks that forces the FO to go out and get that franchise guy and people want that to happen sooner rather than later. So they feel that we should give clemens his shot now, see how he does this season and go from there because chad isn't going to lead this team anywhere(32 years old, injury-prone and noodle armed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I defy you to find a post where anyone says that right now KC is better QB than Chad. The feeling is that a better than CP is required. KC may or may not be that player. You won't find out while he's on the bench. He needs real game-time & it's not as though it will thwart our otherwise favorable odds of winning a superbowl in '07. His upside is higher. I can't see how that can be denied before he's even played a few games. I can find many posts saying that Chad sucks, which implies that Clemens is better now. There's a few in this thread. I really don't feel like going through everything but I believe Barton said Chad sucks on the page before this and that's just one example of some posters saying things that or going overboard about Chad. I completely agree with your point and that's why I would prefer for Clemens to be our starter. But I can understand not going to him this season initially and that's why I would only start to question Mangini if Chad didn't improve on last years effort after 4 or 5 games. I just get annoyed when people aren't objective about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I can find many posts saying that Chad sucks, which implies that Clemens is better now. There's a few in this thread. I really don't feel like going through everything but I believe Barton said Chad sucks on the page before this and that's just one example of some posters saying things that or going overboard about Chad. I completely agree with your point and that's why I would prefer for Clemens to be our starter. But I can understand not going to him this season initially and that's why I would only start to question Mangini if Chad didn't improve on last years effort after 4 or 5 games. I just get annoyed when people aren't objective about it. You know it is entirely possible, and I know I'm reaching here, that they both suck. Just because people are saying one of them sucks doesn't mean they are saying the other one is any better. Just that it is the second guys turn to suck. That the first guy was in there sucking so long that he now holds a monopoly on suck and they feel that is boring so they would like to see someone suck in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You know it is entirely possible, and I know I'm reaching here, that they both suck. Just because people are saying one of them sucks doesn't mean they are saying the other one is any better. Just that it is the second guys turn to suck. That the first guy was in there sucking so long that he now holds a monopoly on suck and they feel that is boring so they would like to see someone suck in a different way. lol No one has implied that KC, before he's even played a single game, is better than anyone - Chad Pennington included. These are the only certainties about KC vs CP: 1 - KC has a far stronger arm 2 - KC is more mobile 3 - KC is a couple of inches shorter 4 - CP is far more experienced Beyond that, it's anyone's guess. KC could be so bad he makes Ryan Leaf look like Johnny Unitas. OK, well maybe he couldn't be that bad. But pretty bad still. I just wouldn't want to look back at a 7-8 win season & say, "Well if Kellen Clemens was the QB we might have only won 4-5 games," as though it really does anything for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 My problem is... The people that are all over Kellen Clemens nutsack... are the EXACT same people that claim Chad is a terrible QB... Yet Kellen couldnt earn the starting job and couldnt score VS the Pats... Chad earned the job and scored VS the Pats... BUT according to barton and others... Chad sucks... If Chad sucks... and Kellen cant beat him... where does that leave Kellen... It only further proves barton and others bias against Chad... they think Chad sucks... and Kellen is good... yet Chad did better and earned the job... Chad didnt even sniff a game his 2nd season. And he was the backup QB into his 3rd season in the NFL as well! I guess Vinny T was better than Chad all those years right? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 lol No one has implied that KC, before he's even played a single game, is better than anyone - Chad Pennington included. These are the only certainties about KC vs CP: 1 - KC has a far stronger arm 2 - KC is more mobile 3 - KC is a couple of inches shorter 4 - CP is far more experienced Beyond that, it's anyone's guess. KC could be so bad he makes Ryan Leaf look like Johnny Unitas. OK, well maybe he couldn't be that bad. But pretty bad still. I just wouldn't want to look back at a 7-8 win season & say, "Well if Kellen Clemens was the QB we might have only won 4-5 games," as though it really does anything for us. Barton thinks Kellen is better than Chad, get him and others to realize that Kellen might suck and Chad isnt as bad as they think and then these fights will not break out about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You know it is entirely possible, and I know I'm reaching here, that they both suck. Just because people are saying one of them sucks doesn't mean they are saying the other one is any better. Just that it is the second guys turn to suck. That the first guy was in there sucking so long that he now holds a monopoly on suck and they feel that is boring so they would like to see someone suck in a different way. Lol, ohh I get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I defy you to find a post where anyone says that right now KC is better QB than Chad. The feeling is that a better than CP is required. KC may or may not be that player. You won't find out while he's on the bench. He needs real game-time & it's not as though it will thwart our otherwise favorable odds of winning a superbowl in '07. His upside is higher. I can't see how that can be denied before he's even played a few games. Exactly. I for one, am not expecting Kellen to come in right away and be better than Chad. I have always said that. But 2 years from now, I think he has the potential to be much better than Chad. We keep delaying him his take over; its going to happen eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Big Chad fan here, but if KC goes this weekend then . . . big KC fan here, etc. Who really cares how KC performs, what his stats are and what not? Seriously, all I give a sh!t about is whether the Jets win or lose. You guys spew way too many stats, it's dizzying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Chad didnt even sniff a game his 2nd season. And he was the backup QB into his 3rd season in the NFL as well! I guess Vinny T was better than Chad all those years right? Please. You cant compare the situations... Parcels likes his veteran QB's... Mangini however will play whoever earns the spot regardless... at any position... Chad earned his spot fair and square... Vinny's age played a role in him earning the spot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Exactly. I for one, am not expecting Kellen to come in right away and be better than Chad. I have always said that. But 2 years from now, I think he has the potential to be much better than Chad. We keep delaying him his take over; its going to happen eventually. If you rush him in, it might ruin him... it happens all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 lol No one has implied that KC, before he's even played a single game, is better than anyone - Chad Pennington included. These are the only certainties about KC vs CP: 1 - KC has a far stronger arm 2 - KC is more mobile 3 - KC is a couple of inches shorter 4 - CP is far more experienced Beyond that, it's anyone's guess. KC could be so bad he makes Ryan Leaf look like Johnny Unitas. OK, well maybe he couldn't be that bad. But pretty bad still. I just wouldn't want to look back at a 7-8 win season & say, "Well if Kellen Clemens was the QB we might have only won 4-5 games," as though it really does anything for us. That's enough for me to want to see what KC has. Does anyone really believe that ChaddyP has a shot at a superbowl? I mean I really like the guy, lets keep him as the 2nd/3rd QB for the next ten years and make him a rich bastard. Yeah, the guy is tough and has heart, but I'm tired of seeing it. I don't want to see this guy battle back from unbeatable odds and come back from all these crazy injuries. I want to see him with the Lombardi trophy hoisted above his surgically repaired shoulder, and I really doubt that is going to happen. And no I don't think kellen gives us a better chance, but there is really only one way to find out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 If you rush him in, it might ruin him... it happens all the time Nonsense. If they are going to fail, they are going to fail. If Kellen is legit, he wont let a pounding his rookie year be his downfall 2 years later. And this whole "Our Oline is so sh#tty! OMGZ!!" is wayyy overblown. Get a QB who knows how to attack a defense, and successfully, and this Oline will do its job and give him time in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Nonsense. If they are going to fail, they are going to fail. If Kellen is legit, he wont let a pounding his rookie year be his downfall 2 years later. And this whole "Our Oline is so sh#tty! OMGZ!!" is wayyy overblown. Get a QB who knows how to attack a defense, and successfully, and this Oline will do its job and give him time in the pocket. So Chad doesnt know how to attack a defense? How the hell did he throw 2 TD's against a cheating Pats defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 So Chad doesnt know how to attack a defense? How the hell did he throw 2 TD's against a cheating Pats defense? Chad is great at attacking defenses with his brilliant passes under 10 yards. All he can do is jabjabjab, he's got no ability to knock anybody out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Chad is great at attacking defenses with his brilliant passes under 10 yards. All he can do is jabjabjab, he's got no ability to knock anybody out. So are you saying if Kellen struggles Mangini should keep Chad on the bench regardless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 So are you saying if Kellen struggles Mangini should keep Chad on the bench regardless? Chad should NEVER throw a pass as a NY Jet ever again. We know what he is. It is not good enough. Time to move the f##king hell on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Chad should NEVER throw a pass as a NY Jet ever again. We know what he is. It is not good enough. Time to move the f##king hell on. This is why nobody takes you serious... there is no middle ground... your just a wannabe expert who watches the broadcast of a game on TV... If Chad wasnt good enough, he wouldnt be here... the JETS could have easily traded him to the Dolphins, Raiders, Falcons, Lions, Browns, Texans, Jaguars The JETS think he can do it, you dont... get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is why nobody takes you serious... there is no middle ground... your just a wannabe expert who watches the broadcast of a game on TV... If Chad wasnt good enough, he wouldnt be here... the JETS could have easily traded him to the Dolphins, Raiders, Falcons, Lions, Browns, Texans, Jaguars The JETS think he can do it, you dont... get over it Nobody. And I mean - NOBODY - takes you seriously, ecurb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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