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The arrogance/hypocrisy of the Pats


MSGold12

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Let me get this out of the way first...I still do not think the jets beat the pats last Sunday regardless of "spygate". I also do not think that the Pats would have been a .500 team these past 6 years if not for their cheating. That said, I find the hypocricy and arrogance of both the Patriots and their fans to this issue to be pathetic.

First the fans.

If I have to read one more freakin justification for what BB did I am going to puke. No Pats fans, he did not "misunderstand" the rules or "interpret them wrong"...he knew DAMN well what he was doing. Just like he knew damn well that if he sent 150K in cash to a marired woman (while he was married) via Fed Ex that it would pretty much prove that he was having some sort of affair with her. I have read where some fans think Holy Belli did this to expose this issue so it could be gotten rid of for good!!!!! Are you f-ing kidding me???? BL, Belicheck is a BAD person. He is paranoid and will do anyhting that he thinks will give himself an advantage. Whether that means skipping out on a contractual obligation to the jets or video taping other teams to steal signals or banging someone elses wife. Doesnt mean hes not a great coach, he is...but he's a BAD person. Just like a lot of very successful poeple are bad people. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing here and was so f-ing arrogant...he didn't care.

As to what effect this taping had on the Pats success...NONE of us has any true idea about that. Did the taping help them beat the jets this weekend? Maybe, maybe not. But if he was taping the jets last year, whose to say those tapes didnt help him? Whose to say they didnt tape the Rams and used the singals in that last game winning drive? How do we know its not the reason they beat Indy so easily all those year where suddenly Manning was "human"? maybe they taped Indys' O signals. Who knows? The point is to dismiss this as being "no big deal" or not having any impact on their success is ridiculous.

Finally, I have had to listen to the "everyone is doing it but the Pats just got caught" excuse. OK, then why did everyone come down so hard on Jason Giambi or Barry Bonds for doing steroids when we know so many others are doing it to. And if the answer is that doing steroids has a greater impact then tapinging signals then I say thats crap. Are Pats fans saying that cheating is OK...its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue? And these are the same fans who cired like a bunch of pussies after they got a "bad call" v Denver in the playoffs and claimed it was because the refs were out to get them.

Pats fans have become nothing more then a bunch of spoiled, uppity, excuse making fools. I understand that they have 3 rings in 6 years and that affords them the right to be arrogant...but go back and watch some films from as recently as the early 90s. You saw empty stadiums and low season ticket base. Only after the hired Parcells did they build up the season ticket base and only after the new stadium and won SBs have they been sold out wiht a waiting list. Immena even in the Jets WORST years, all tickets were sld and the wait list has never dipped under 20,000. Jets fans may not show up to the game when thngs are bad, but they buy their tickets and never totally abandon their team like Pats fans did. Prior to 2001 the Pats held the disticntion of being the LONGEST exisiting franchise in ALL sports to not win a title since incpetion. Yet they act like their team has the Cowboys or Steelers or 49ers history. Pats fans are a bunch of arrogant front runners who will disappear like coachroaches in the light once this run of succes is over. You watch. Boston fans did it with the Celtics and will do it with the Pats when this run ends.

YOUR TEAM/HC CHEATED. DEAL WITH IT. END OF STORY!!!!

As to the Pats themselves,

I zero in on Fat Bobby Kraft first who wile being a great owner, seems to think he is on a par with Halas and the Maras when to comes to NFL importance. But this is a man who suppossedly holds honor so near and dear. A man who cried like a baby when Parcells dishonored him. A man who cut a 3rd round pick tw days after the draft after his wife told him to because the player had sexual assualt allegations against him. A man who has a zero tolerance policy in his stadium for fan behavior and took away season tickets from a fan because the fans FRIEND peed in a sink in a bathroom. So I would assume a man with such honor and a zero tolerance policy for the fans who buy his tickets would have the same type policy for his employees. Yet his initial statement about this seems to defend his coach and blow this of by syaing "everyone is just jealous of us". Shame on you for your hypopcrisy Bob Kraft. Your coach cheated. If you knew about it you are a compliant hypocrite. If you didnt and now you defend it, you are a blatant hypocrtie.

And the team...these examples of all that is good and pure in the NFL. Please. Between Brady's illegitimate kid and public abandonment of its mother, Belli's adulterous affair with a married woman, Harrison's HGH, they are not the shining beacons of all that is pure and good that they claim to be...this latest incident just compounds the destruction of that myth.

Look, I am sure every Pats fan that reads this will claim its just sour grapes from a Jets fan who wishes his team could win 3 titles...and maybe there is some truth to that. But it doesnt change the fact that Pats fans have become this arrogant, pompous group of apologists for anyhting their team does. Their team, whihc has had little to no real success prior to 2001, cheated and got caught and like it or not it raises questions as to how much of an illegal advatage they have had since BB took over. If they were smart, they would condemn what BB did rather then try to defend or minimize it. But they're not smart...instead they try to explain it away or flash their 3 rings as some sort of blanket exoneration for anyhting they do.

Grow up Pats fans. This is a sh*tty thing your arrogant coach has done apparantly for quite a while. Perhaps if you all had the balls to simply admit that rather then smugly dismissing it, other fans would have more repsect for you.

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great post MSG...Bill Belichick MUST be fired-it's the only logical conclusion to this growing bigger and bigger by the hour scandal

I'm not even insisting he be fired. But how about the pats or their fans just admitting that what he did was cheating, it was worng, and may have given the team an unfair advantage over the years BB has been here.

Instead we hear excuses, justiofication and dismissal.

The Pats are a great team. One that had NO reason to have to even DO this last week. I am sure they will win their 11-14 games this year and make a SB run even wihtout spying.

But that does not mean that Pats fans or the team shuold just blow this off as no big deal or dismiss it as irrelevant.

NOONE has any idea (except BB) as to what degree this cheating helped the team over the years. Maybe it did nothing, maybe it was the driving force ebhind teir success. I have no idea. But this arrogant dismisal by the fans and Fat Kraft and the apologioetic BS I have to hear is sickening.

And I know one thing. if it wasnt having some sort of benefit, there is no reason for BB to have done it for so long.

HE CHEATED! It doesnt matter if everyone was doing it, HE was doing it...and he got caught.

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Let me get this out of the way first...I still do not think the jets beat the pats last Sunday regardless of "spygate". I also do not think that the Pats would have been a .500 team these past 6 years if not for their cheating. That said, I find the hypocricy and arrogance of both the Patriots and their fans to this issue to be pathetic.

First the fans.

If I have to read one more freakin justification for what BB did I am going to puke. No Pats fans, he did not "misunderstand" the rules or "interpret them wrong"...he knew DAMN well what he was doing. Just like he knew damn well that if he sent 150K in cash to a marired woman (while he was married) via Fed Ex that it would pretty much prove that he was having some sort of affair with her. I have read where some fans think Holy Belli did this to expose this issue so it could be gotten rid of for good!!!!! Are you f-ing kidding me???? BL, Belicheck is a BAD person. He is paranoid and will do anyhting that he thinks will give himself an advantage. Whether that means skipping out on a contractual obligation to the jets or video taping other teams to steal signals or banging someone elses wife. Doesnt mean hes not a great coach, he is...but he's a BAD person. Just like a lot of very successful poeple are bad people. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing here and was so f-ing arrogant...he didn't care.

As to what effect this taping had on the Pats success...NONE of us has any true idea about that. Did the taping help them beat the jets this weekend? Maybe, maybe not. But if he was taping the jets last year, whose to say those tapes didnt help him? Whose to say they didnt tape the Rams and used the singals in that last game winning drive? How do we know its not the reason they beat Indy so easily all those year where suddenly Manning was "human"? maybe they taped Indys' O signals. Who knows? The point is to dismiss this as being "no big deal" or not having any impact on their success is ridiculous.

Finally, I have had to listen to the "everyone is doing it but the Pats just got caught" excuse. OK, then why did everyone come down so hard on Jason Giambi or Barry Bonds for doing steroids when we know so many others are doing it to. And if the answer is that doing steroids has a greater impact then tapinging signals then I say thats crap. Are Pats fans saying that cheating is OK...its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue? And these are the same fans who cired like a bunch of pussies after they got a "bad call" v Denver in the playoffs and claimed it was because the refs were out to get them.

Pats fans have become nothing more then a bunch of spoiled, uppity, excuse making fools. I understand that they have 3 rings in 6 years and that affords them the right to be arrogant...but go back and watch some films from as recently as the early 90s. You saw empty stadiums and low season ticket base. Only after the hired Parcells did they build up the season ticket base and only after the new stadium and won SBs have they been sold out wiht a waiting list. Immena even in the Jets WORST years, all tickets were sld and the wait list has never dipped under 20,000. Jets fans may not show up to the game when thngs are bad, but they buy their tickets and never totally abandon their team like Pats fans did. Prior to 2001 the Pats held the disticntion of being the LONGEST exisiting franchise in ALL sports to not win a title since incpetion. Yet they act like their team has the Cowboys or Steelers or 49ers history. Pats fans are a bunch of arrogant front runners who will disappear like coachroaches in the light once this run of succes is over. You watch. Boston fans did it with the Celtics and will do it with the Pats when this run ends.

YOUR TEAM/HC CHEATED. DEAL WITH IT. END OF STORY!!!!

As to the Pats themselves,

I zero in on Fat Bobby Kraft first who wile being a great owner, seems to think he is on a par with Halas and the Maras when to comes to NFL importance. But this is a man who suppossedly holds honor so near and dear. A man who cried like a baby when Parcells dishonored him. A man who cut a 3rd round pick tw days after the draft after his wife told him to because the player had sexual assualt allegations against him. A man who has a zero tolerance policy in his stadium for fan behavior and took away season tickets from a fan because the fans FRIEND peed in a sink in a bathroom. So I would assume a man with such honor and a zero tolerance policy for the fans who buy his tickets would have the same type policy for his employees. Yet his initial statement about this seems to defend his coach and blow this of by syaing "everyone is just jealous of us". Shame on you for your hypopcrisy Bob Kraft. Your coach cheated. If you knew about it you are a compliant hypocrite. If you didnt and now you defend it, you are a blatant hypocrtie.

And the team...these examples of all that is good and pure in the NFL. Please. Between Brady's illegitimate kid and public abandonment of its mother, Belli's adulterous affair with a married woman, Harrison's HGH, they are not the shining beacons of all that is pure and good that they claim to be...this latest incident just compounds the destruction of that myth.

Look, I am sure every Pats fan that reads this will claim its just sour grapes from a Jets fan who wishes his team could win 3 titles...and maybe there is some truth to that. But it doesnt change the fact that Pats fans have become this arrogant, pompous group of apologists for anyhting their team does. Their team, whihc has had little to no real success prior to 2001, cheated and got caught and like it or not it raises questions as to how much of an illegal advatage they have had since BB took over. If they were smart, they would condemn what BB did rather then try to defend or minimize it. But they're not smart...instead they try to explain it away or flash their 3 rings as some sort of blanket exoneration for anyhting they do.

Grow up Pats fans. This is a sh*tty thing your arrogant coach has done apparantly for quite a while. Perhaps if you all had the balls to simply admit that rather then smugly dismissing it, other fans would have more repsect for you.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Kudos.

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I'm not even insisting he be fired. But how about the pats or their fans just admitting that what he did was cheating, it was worng, and may have given the team an unfair advantage over the years BB has been here.

Instead we hear excuses, justiofication and dismissal.

The Pats are a great team. One that had NO reason to have to even DO this last week. I am sure they will win their 11-14 games this year and make a SB run even wihtout spying.

But that does not mean that Pats fans or the team shuold just blow this off as no big deal or dismiss it as irrelevant.

NOONE has any idea (except BB) as to what degree this cheating helped the team over the years. Maybe it did nothing, maybe it was the driving force ebhind teir success. I have no idea. But this arrogant dismisal by the fans and Fat Kraft and the apologioetic BS I have to hear is sickening.

And I know one thing. if it wasnt having some sort of benefit, there is no reason for BB to have done it for so long.

HE CHEATED! It doesnt matter if everyone was doing it, HE was doing it...and he got caught.

well..we'll just see about all of that over the next few years now, won't we.

Pats franchise will forever be compared as

BC=Before Cheating

AD=After Discovery

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Let me get this out of the way first...I still do not think the jets beat the pats last Sunday regardless of "spygate". I also do not think that the Pats would have been a .500 team these past 6 years if not for their cheating. That said, I find the hypocricy and arrogance of both the Patriots and their fans to this issue to be pathetic.

First the fans.

If I have to read one more freakin justification for what BB did I am going to puke. No Pats fans, he did not "misunderstand" the rules or "interpret them wrong"...he knew DAMN well what he was doing. Just like he knew damn well that if he sent 150K in cash to a marired woman (while he was married) via Fed Ex that it would pretty much prove that he was having some sort of affair with her. I have read where some fans think Holy Belli did this to expose this issue so it could be gotten rid of for good!!!!! Are you f-ing kidding me???? BL, Belicheck is a BAD person. He is paranoid and will do anyhting that he thinks will give himself an advantage. Whether that means skipping out on a contractual obligation to the jets or video taping other teams to steal signals or banging someone elses wife. Doesnt mean hes not a great coach, he is...but he's a BAD person. Just like a lot of very successful poeple are bad people. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing here and was so f-ing arrogant...he didn't care.

As to what effect this taping had on the Pats success...NONE of us has any true idea about that. Did the taping help them beat the jets this weekend? Maybe, maybe not. But if he was taping the jets last year, whose to say those tapes didnt help him? Whose to say they didnt tape the Rams and used the singals in that last game winning drive? How do we know its not the reason they beat Indy so easily all those year where suddenly Manning was "human"? maybe they taped Indys' O signals. Who knows? The point is to dismiss this as being "no big deal" or not having any impact on their success is ridiculous.

Finally, I have had to listen to the "everyone is doing it but the Pats just got caught" excuse. OK, then why did everyone come down so hard on Jason Giambi or Barry Bonds for doing steroids when we know so many others are doing it to. And if the answer is that doing steroids has a greater impact then tapinging signals then I say thats crap. Are Pats fans saying that cheating is OK...its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue? And these are the same fans who cired like a bunch of pussies after they got a "bad call" v Denver in the playoffs and claimed it was because the refs were out to get them.

Pats fans have become nothing more then a bunch of spoiled, uppity, excuse making fools. I understand that they have 3 rings in 6 years and that affords them the right to be arrogant...but go back and watch some films from as recently as the early 90s. You saw empty stadiums and low season ticket base. Only after the hired Parcells did they build up the season ticket base and only after the new stadium and won SBs have they been sold out wiht a waiting list. Immena even in the Jets WORST years, all tickets were sld and the wait list has never dipped under 20,000. Jets fans may not show up to the game when thngs are bad, but they buy their tickets and never totally abandon their team like Pats fans did. Prior to 2001 the Pats held the disticntion of being the LONGEST exisiting franchise in ALL sports to not win a title since incpetion. Yet they act like their team has the Cowboys or Steelers or 49ers history. Pats fans are a bunch of arrogant front runners who will disappear like coachroaches in the light once this run of succes is over. You watch. Boston fans did it with the Celtics and will do it with the Pats when this run ends.

YOUR TEAM/HC CHEATED. DEAL WITH IT. END OF STORY!!!!

As to the Pats themselves,

I zero in on Fat Bobby Kraft first who wile being a great owner, seems to think he is on a par with Halas and the Maras when to comes to NFL importance. But this is a man who suppossedly holds honor so near and dear. A man who cried like a baby when Parcells dishonored him. A man who cut a 3rd round pick tw days after the draft after his wife told him to because the player had sexual assualt allegations against him. A man who has a zero tolerance policy in his stadium for fan behavior and took away season tickets from a fan because the fans FRIEND peed in a sink in a bathroom. So I would assume a man with such honor and a zero tolerance policy for the fans who buy his tickets would have the same type policy for his employees. Yet his initial statement about this seems to defend his coach and blow this of by syaing "everyone is just jealous of us". Shame on you for your hypopcrisy Bob Kraft. Your coach cheated. If you knew about it you are a compliant hypocrite. If you didnt and now you defend it, you are a blatant hypocrtie.

And the team...these examples of all that is good and pure in the NFL. Please. Between Brady's illegitimate kid and public abandonment of its mother, Belli's adulterous affair with a married woman, Harrison's HGH, they are not the shining beacons of all that is pure and good that they claim to be...this latest incident just compounds the destruction of that myth.

Look, I am sure every Pats fan that reads this will claim its just sour grapes from a Jets fan who wishes his team could win 3 titles...and maybe there is some truth to that. But it doesnt change the fact that Pats fans have become this arrogant, pompous group of apologists for anyhting their team does. Their team, whihc has had little to no real success prior to 2001, cheated and got caught and like it or not it raises questions as to how much of an illegal advatage they have had since BB took over. If they were smart, they would condemn what BB did rather then try to defend or minimize it. But they're not smart...instead they try to explain it away or flash their 3 rings as some sort of blanket exoneration for anyhting they do.

Grow up Pats fans. This is a sh*tty thing your arrogant coach has done apparantly for quite a while. Perhaps if you all had the balls to simply admit that rather then smugly dismissing it, other fans would have more repsect for you.

POTW nom. Kudos Gold.

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well..we'll just see about all of that over the next few years now, won't we.

Pats franchise will forever be compared as

BC=Before Cheating

AD=After Discovery

Exactly. This is a lot bigger than if the cheating affected the Jets game or not. The patriots organization is discraced. It is just going to take a little more time for them and their fans to get over their arrogance and realize this.

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Exactly. This is a lot bigger than if the cheating affected the Jets game or not. The patriots organization is discraced. It is just going to take a little more time for them and their fans to get over their arrogance and realize this.

That their fans will not even have the decency to admit that this even MIGHT have had an effect on even SOME of what they have done the past 7 years is what guals me. They just blow it off as if cheating is just fine, didnt help them a bit, and that they and BB are just SO good that this is a non issue.

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That their fans will not even have the decency to admit that this even MIGHT have had an effect on even SOME of what they have done the past 7 years is what guals me. They just blow it off as if cheating is just fine, didnt help them a bit, and that they and BB are just SO good that this is a non issue.

And they won a few big games only by the strength of a clutch kicker's leg.

I imagine they would have done a lot worse without having tapes of other teams' signals they illegally obtained.

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And they won a few big games only by the strength of a clutch kicker's leg.

I imagine they would have done a lot worse without having tapes of other teams' signals they illegally obtained.

Terriifc point. Its not as if their margin for error in these SB years was so great that a few breaks one way or the other wouldnt have made any differecne.

Who knows? My point is the arrogant dismissal of all this by patsie fans just proves what a bunch of arrogant front runners they really are.

Hey Patsie fans, whee were all of you when Hugh Millen was running the show? Sitting at home watching Cheers re-runs on Sundays while eatin ya chowdah thats where.

Real easy to be a"die hard" AFTER your team wins a SB isnt it?????

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I told 124 yesterday that I wouldn't be posting again until Monday and he told me I would. 124: You were right.

Below is my last comment on this until the NFL releases its findings and BB responds.

Have at it:

Let me get this out of the way first...I still do not think the jets beat the pats last Sunday regardless of "spygate". I also do not think that the Pats would have been a .500 team these past 6 years if not for their cheating. That said, I find the hypocricy and arrogance of both the Patriots and their fans to this issue to be pathetic.

First the fans.

If I have to read one more freakin justification for what BB did I am going to puke. No Pats fans, he did not "misunderstand" the rules or "interpret them wrong"...he knew DAMN well what he was doing. Just like he knew damn well that if he sent 150K in cash to a marired woman (while he was married) via Fed Ex that it would pretty much prove that he was having some sort of affair with her. I have read where some fans think Holy Belli did this to expose this issue so it could be gotten rid of for good!!!!! Are you f-ing kidding me???? BL, Belicheck is a BAD person. He is paranoid and will do anyhting that he thinks will give himself an advantage. Whether that means skipping out on a contractual obligation to the jets or video taping other teams to steal signals or banging someone elses wife. Doesnt mean hes not a great coach, he is...but he's a BAD person. Just like a lot of very successful poeple are bad people. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing here and was so f-ing arrogant...he didn't care.

I don’t think you will find any of the long time Pats posters here who has not admitted that what BB did was wrong and that the Patriots should be punished.

What does his personal life have to do with breaking an NFL rule? I understand the history with BB and the Jets franchise but some posters here have taken this opportunity to bring up stuff about non-football issues. I’m amazed the story of his son getting busted buying weed hasn’t been brought up yet.

As to what effect this taping had on the Pats success...NONE of us has any true idea about that. Did the taping help them beat the jets this weekend? Maybe, maybe not. But if he was taping the jets last year, whose to say those tapes didnt help him? Whose to say they didnt tape the Rams and used the singals in that last game winning drive? How do we know its not the reason they beat Indy so easily all those year where suddenly Manning was "human"? maybe they taped Indys' O signals. Who knows? The point is to dismiss this as being "no big deal" or not having any impact on their success is ridiculous.

Correct. We don’t know. But Jets fans are already convinced that the Pats have cheated in every game since 2000 and nothing I can do or say will stop the speculation and “what-ifs”

Finally, I have had to listen to the "everyone is doing it but the Pats just got caught" excuse. OK, then why did everyone come down so hard on Jason Giambi or Barry Bonds for doing steroids when we know so many others are doing it to. And if the answer is that doing steroids has a greater impact then tapinging signals then I say thats crap. Are Pats fans saying that cheating is OK...its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue? And these are the same fans who cired like a bunch of pussies after they got a "bad call" v Denver in the playoffs and claimed it was because the refs were out to get them.

I personally believe that the Patriots are not the only team doing this. What amazes me was the shear arrogance of BB in continuing to do this after the NFL sent out a league wide memo addressing the issue. The Pats got caught and will be punished.

Pats fans have become nothing more then a bunch of spoiled, uppity, excuse making fools. I understand that they have 3 rings in 6 years and that affords them the right to be arrogant...but go back and watch some films from as recently as the early 90s. You saw empty stadiums and low season ticket base. Only after the hired Parcells did they build up the season ticket base and only after the new stadium and won SBs have they been sold out wiht a waiting list. Immena even in the Jets WORST years, all tickets were sld and the wait list has never dipped under 20,000. Jets fans may not show up to the game when thngs are bad, but they buy their tickets and never totally abandon their team like Pats fans did. Prior to 2001 the Pats held the disticntion of being the LONGEST exisiting franchise in ALL sports to not win a title since incpetion. Yet they act like their team has the Cowboys or Steelers or 49ers history. Pats fans are a bunch of arrogant front runners who will disappear like coachroaches in the light once this run of succes is over. You watch. Boston fans did it with the Celtics and will do it with the Pats when this run ends.

This is where you veer way off course and take a personal swipe at every Pats fan and use figures that are incorrect. The Pats, as a franchise, were in turmoil in the late 80’s and early 90’s. After the Sullivan Family lost the team Pats fans dealt with the horrible ownership of Victor Kiam, played in a High School Stadium, and proceeded to suck on the Field. No one wanted anything to do with the Pats because they were an utter embarrassment.

James Busch Orthwein bought the team in 1992 or 1993 with his only intention of moving the team to St. Louis. Would you support a team that was a sure bet to be relocated? I did. I bought season tickets in 1992 when I was a junior in college. Orthwein hired Parcells in 1993 thinking this would help his relocation case even better. Luckily Kraft owned the Stadium and ended up getting ownership of the team in 1994. This stabilized the franchise and brought back the fans.

The Patriots have sold out every game since 1994 and have had a waiting list since the late 1990’s. Keep in mind they still played in that crap stadium (even though I kind of miss the place sometimes).

YOUR TEAM/HC CHEATED. DEAL WITH IT. END OF STORY!!!!

Yep

As to the Pats themselves,

I zero in on Fat Bobby Kraft first who wile being a great owner, seems to think he is on a par with Halas and the Maras when to comes to NFL importance. But this is a man who suppossedly holds honor so near and dear. A man who cried like a baby when Parcells dishonored him. A man who cut a 3rd round pick tw days after the draft after his wife told him to because the player had sexual assualt allegations against him. A man who has a zero tolerance policy in his stadium for fan behavior and took away season tickets from a fan because the fans FRIEND peed in a sink in a bathroom. So I would assume a man with such honor and a zero tolerance policy for the fans who buy his tickets would have the same type policy for his employees. Yet his initial statement about this seems to defend his coach and blow this of by syaing "everyone is just jealous of us". Shame on you for your hypopcrisy Bob Kraft. Your coach cheated. If you knew about it you are a compliant hypocrite. If you didnt and now you defend it, you are a blatant hypocrtie.

Awesome personal attack on Kraft. Your first sentence is simply your opinion. I don’t like some of the rules he has instituted when it comes to Season Ticket holders but I’ve got nothing personal against the man.

And the team...these examples of all that is good and pure in the NFL. Please. Between Brady's illegitimate kid and public abandonment of its mother, Belli's adulterous affair with a married woman, Harrison's HGH, they are not the shining beacons of all that is pure and good that they claim to be...this latest incident just compounds the destruction of that myth.

Once again, what do Brady’s and BB’s personal lives have to do with breaking an NFL rule? Harrison used a banned substance and has been suspended. That’s fair game for fans to go after.

Look, I am sure every Pats fan that reads this will claim its just sour grapes from a Jets fan who wishes his team could win 3 titles...and maybe there is some truth to that. But it doesnt change the fact that Pats fans have become this arrogant, pompous group of apologists for anyhting their team does. Their team, whihc has had little to no real success prior to 2001, cheated and got caught and like it or not it raises questions as to how much of an illegal advatage they have had since BB took over. If they were smart, they would condemn what BB did rather then try to defend or minimize it. But they're not smart...instead they try to explain it away or flash their 3 rings as some sort of blanket exoneration for anyhting they do.

Grow up Pats fans. This is a sh*tty thing your arrogant coach has done apparantly for quite a while. Perhaps if you all had the balls to simply admit that rather then smugly dismissing it, other fans would have more repsect for you.

There is a lot of misplaced anger and attacks on the Patriots Franchise, Ownership, Fanbase and players personal lives. If you took out all of those jabs your post would be much better and shorter.

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I told 124 yesterday that I wouldn't be posting again until Monday and he told me I would. 124: You were right.

Below is my last comment on this until the NFL releases its findings and BB responds.

Have at it:

1. In a prior post I state that I am not intending to lump ALL Pats fans into this. It would be impossible to single out certain people. But on the average, my assessment is correct.

2. No one is saying they have won every game since 2000 because of this (go re-read my opening line)...but plenty of Pats fans are saying this has had NO effect on ANY game they have played.

3. BL, stadium or no stadium, crappy owner or great owner, prior to 1993 pats fans were a joke. The team didnt sell out, and only in winning years was there any buzz. Only after Parcells/Kraft arrived did they start selling out and only after the SBs did suddenyl all the "die hards" start coming out of the woodwork. And your stats back up exactly what I said. They started selling out after Parcells (who arrived in 1993 not 2003). prior to that...where were all of you????

4. I attack BBs personal life because it shows what a reckless, pompous ass he is and why it doesnt surprise me at all that he would pull this.

5. Kraft, through his actions and words, has put himself on some moral pedistal over the years. If he now defends BB he is a hypocrite. Nohting personal about that...thats just fact.

Finally, as to "jabs at Pats fans". We have had to listen to you all yell and scream about your SB wins for 6 years now. ANY time any one has the temerity to criticize the Pats, you all have the same comeback...we have 3 rings. Well, now there might be some question as to how you all got those 3 rings and you expect jets fans to just sit back and say nothing after having to take Patsie abuse? Get real.

I commend you for some of your answers and for being in the minority amongst Pats Fans on this issue (go check out the love fest on patsfans.com for proof). But at the end of the day, MOST of what I have said about pats fans is dead on balls accurate and this incident and their reaction to it has proved that.

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gainzo...........

You do realize the misplaced anger you refer to at the end will never go away

for the rest of your life.

You can come on here and every one of the 30 other fan boaards and not

change anyone's mind.

You guys go down with the White sox scandal and the Dodger/giant signal stealing.

It's over the fat lady has sung...............

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"What does his personal life have to do with breaking an NFL rule?"

Bill Bellichick is without a doubt a great NFL head coach. But he is also without a doubt a miserable human being.

It might have nothing to do with NFL rules per se. But it speaks volumes about what a low, coniving cur Bellichick is as a person. I understand that putting in the hours that the job of an NFL head coach requires is not conducive to high qaulity marriages and families. You could start listing the examples and go on for hours. Still, if you're willling to so embarrass the wife and mother of your children in such a manner, you will have no compunction about ignoring the rules in your business.

It's been said that the late GM of the Giants, George Young, said that the most despicable human being he had ever met in football was Bill Bellichick. In fairness, Young was a pompous stuffed shirt blowhard. Still, Bellichick seems to live every day to prove Young was correct. And that's saying something when you consider that as a group, NFL coaches are a pretty dysfunctional bunch in the first place.

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"What does his personal life have to do with breaking an NFL rule?"

Bill Bellichick is without a doubt a great NFL head coach. But he is also without a doubt a miserable human being.

It might have nothing to do with NFL rules per se. But it speaks volumes about what a low, coniving cur Bellichick is as a person. I understand that putting in the hours that the job of an NFL head coach requires is not conducive to high qaulity marriages and families. You could start listing the examples and go on for hours. Still, if you're willling to so embarrass the wife and mother of your children in such a manner, you will have no compunction about ignoring the rules in your business.

It's been said that the late GM of the Giants, George Young, said that the most despicable human being he had ever met in football was Bill Bellichick. In fairness, Young was a pompous stuffed shirt blowhard. Still, Bellichick seems to live every day to prove Young was correct. And that's saying something when you consider that as a group, NFL coaches are a pretty dysfunctional bunch in the first place.

Bingo!

Look at his past...

In 1997 he became a WILLING participant in the charade to steal Tuna from NE and bring him to NY....screwing over the same guy he works for now.

He stole 1,000,000 from a dying man and renegged on a contractual obligation t the jets simply because he nmo longer liked Parcells and saw a better deal in NE.

He cheated on his wife for what looks to be 15 or so years in abrazen and obvious way and destoryed anohter marriage in the process.

he is a great football mind who is also a sorry excuse for a human being and his perosnal actions show that he is capable of anything due to his arrogance.

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I'm sure you've been over to patfans.com. There is some comedy gold over there.

Holy Cr*p, I KNOW! That place is fast becoming my personal tree-house. Reading over there makes me feel like I ate a bowl of drugs. It's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. And I mean anything. Go peruse some of the responses I've gotten there. They're suitable for framing.

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Holy Cr*p, I KNOW! That place is fast becoming my personal tree-house. Reading over there makes me feel like I ate a bowl of drugs. It's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. And I mean anything. Go peruse some of the responses I've gotten there. They're suitable for framing.

Its been that way over there since 2001. They are the most blinded group of suck ups I have ever seen on any board. No Pat can EVER do ANY wrong in their eyes.

Some oever there are actually slamming Mangini!!!!

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I personally believe that the Patriots are not the only team doing this.

On Monday you refused to believe the pats were cheating until some proof was shown. Now that the smoking gun has been produced that the pats cheated, you all of a sudden believe they arent the only ones doing it?

Where is YOUR proof?

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On Monday you refused to believe the pats were cheating until some proof was shown. Now that the smoking gun has been produced that the pats cheated, you all of a sudden believe they arent the only ones doing it?

Where is YOUR proof?

Here is my bottom line...

Most rational thinking jets fans are not running around saying that all the Pats victiories and all their SB titles were due to spying and cheating. maybe thye were, maybe they weren;t, maybe some were and others not...who knows.

However, Pats fans fail to even CONSIDER the possibility that the spying gave them any type of advantage and dismiss the idea that the signal stealing had ANY bearing on ANYTHING that they have done the past 6 years.

THAT is my biggest probelm. pats fans condemn Jets fans for speculating on tings we dont know about yet have no problem dismissing things that they dont know about. That comes from arrogance.

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On Monday you refused to believe the pats were cheating until some proof was shown. Now that the smoking gun has been produced that the pats cheated, you all of a sudden believe they arent the only ones doing it?

Where is YOUR proof?

GREAT point. And Gainzo is definitely not the only one who had been asking for proof, and now that there is proof, just says that everybody does it.

I mean COME ON! How absurd of an argument is that??!! If you wanted so much proof for when the Pats did it, you can't just simply say that "everybody does it." Gimme a freakin break.

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However, Pats fans fail to even CONSIDER the possibility that the spying gave them any type of advantage and dismiss the idea that the signal stealing had ANY bearing on ANYTHING that they have done the past 6 years.

Ok, but at this point it doesn't look like the Patriots are in trouble for spying, but using a camera on the sidelines.

If a team gains an advantage to intercepting signals it's not illegal but part of the game according to the league.

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Ok, but at this point it doesn't look like the Patriots are in trouble for spying, but using a camera on the sidelines.

If a team gains an advantage to intercepting signals it's not illegal but part of the game according to the league.

the longer this goes on, the more that is coming out-how many teams now have begun to question why headsets went out on potential scoring drives? Read Dr Z's article...I'm glad Goodelll isn't rushing to make a ruling because the longer this strings out then maybe the right thing will happen as to punishment-which should be a year suspended or banning if not fired-it's Pete Rose territory-it's that bad

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the longer this goes on, the more that is coming out-how many teams now have begun to question why headsets went out on potential scoring drives? Read Dr Z's article...I'm glad Goodelll isn't rushing to make a ruling because the longer this strings out then maybe the right thing will happen as to punishment-which should be a year suspended or banning if not fired-it's Pete Rose territory-it's that bad

I did read Dr Z's article, it was very interesting. But considering Mike Martz has already said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/13/2007-09-13_manginis_aboutface_on_spying_burns_belic-1.html

"If he did steal signals in that game, he didn't do a very good job," said Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz, the Rams coach at the time. "Going into the last drive, they had 100 yards of offense. He got the wrong signals. If he had our defensive signals, it didn't help him much."

"He won legitimately," Martz insists. "Those players had to line up and play and win those games. And they did."

That sort of contradicts Dr Z's article doesn't it? I mean Martz would have said something if the Patriots are cheating no?

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