Bottom line, Patriots and Fans have lost ALL their glory

[SouthernJet]

Thats it, ,bottom line. Patriot fans can pump their chest all they want, but just as a Barry Bonds fan gets snickered and chastised, that is the Patriots new fate.

Forever now, they will have their 3 SuperBowls questioned. Brady will queried as to whether he is great or just the benefit of knowing all the 2nd half defensive schemes coming at him. Belly will definitly be labeled now as the coach who had to resort to knowing the def calls instead of fairly outplay and outcoaching a opponent. Both Brady and Belly's 1st ballot HOF induction is a major question mark, aka McGwuire.

Oh, they will say, other teams do it. But it is their team, their coach, their SuperBowls that are now officially tainted, but also in question. They won 3 SupewrBowls, and in each game they won by 3 points. Its pretty obvious the Pats would not have any trophies if they didnt cheat, and more than likely , they wouldnt have even been in ANY SuperBowls if they didnt cheat. Its not open for debate. They have been caught cheating and every accomplishement is in question.

From this day forward, any taunting, any braggadacio over past glory, can now be officially responded to by opposing teams and fans by a single word: ASTERISK.

[SouthernJet]

And teams will forever be saying,,'ahh, now iunderstand',,take the Eagles community for instance:

Birds still blame selves for Super Bowl, but ...

By DANA PENNETT O'NEIL

oneild@phillynews.com

'I thought we had them stopped twice on third down [during the opening drive of the second half]. We had a blitz on, but they picked it up.''

That's Jim Johnson, Eagles defensive coordinator, standing in a somber locker room late on the night of Feb. 6, 2005, ruminating on some of the calls he wished he could have back from Super Bowl XXXIX, when New England turned a 7-7 halftime deadlock into a 24-21 Patriots win.

And now, with charges that the Patriots used a video camera to steal signals during their season opener against the Jets, those quotes, like everything else stemming from that evening 2 1/2 years ago, are going to be re-examined and reinterpreted.

The handful of fans here who didn't burn their tapes of that game have no doubt dashed back to their VCRs, reviewing them like the Zapruder film, looking for the guy with the video camera on Jacksonville's grassy knoll.

This isn't the NCAA. They don't put asterisks in the NFL record books. There will be no vacating of the Patriots' championships, so a backdoor parade will not be happening down Broad Street any time soon.

Still, in a city thirstier for a championship than Lindsay Lohan is for a gin and tonic, here is the perfect out. We was robbed.

[chris66]

Mike martz response when asked if he thought the patriots were stealing sign during sb 36 " if they were stealing signs they would have done a better job than they did"

[PFSIKH]

Your asterik means nothing.

Despite the Jets grass root cry for a march on the NFL offices and execution of Belichick, the Commish has rendered his punishment. You could say him taken one first round pick (Patriots have two) or a 2nd and 3rd (Patriots have three), Belichick's $500K fine (he is making 4,2 million this year) and a team fine of $250K (the team is worth a billion dollars) is a mere slap on the wrist and is indicative of a common practice.

Kind of hard to bring the hammer when teams readily acknowledge they steal signals.

[SouthernJet]

Your asterik means nothing.

Despite the Jets grass root cry for a march on the NFL offices and execution of Belichick, the Commish has rendered his punishment. You could say him taken one first round pick (Patriots have two) or a 2nd and 3rd (Patriots have three), Belichick's $500K fine (he is making 4,2 million this year) and a team fine of $250K (the team is worth a billion dollars) is a mere slap on the wrist and is indicative of a common practice.

Kind of hard to bring the hammer when teams readily acknowledge they steal signals.

ASTERISK.

hahaahhaahahahhahahaha

its all down the drain,,enjoy being the Barry Bonds of football..hahahahha

ASTERISK City baby..

your horse collar forever..

[SouthernJet]

Mike martz response when asked if he thought the patriots were stealing sign during sb 36 " if they were stealing signs they would have done a better job than they did"

exactly,, thats probably why they did it,,they dont have th etalent to woin fair,,now we know,,

they had to steal signes to be competitive,,

ASTERISK

[afosomf]

Your asterik means nothing.

Despite the Jets grass root cry for a march on the NFL offices and execution of Belichick, the Commish has rendered his punishment. You could say him taken one first round pick (Patriots have two) or a 2nd and 3rd (Patriots have three), Belichick's $500K fine (he is making 4,2 million this year) and a team fine of $250K (the team is worth a billion dollars) is a mere slap on the wrist and is indicative of a common practice.

Kind of hard to bring the hammer when teams readily acknowledge they steal signals.

:baby::baby:

Sorry this is tarnished 4ever. Kraft should have fired the POS

BOSTON GLOBE

Feeling Un-Patriotic

Belichick's apology aside, young fans question sportsmanship

By David Abel

The 17-year-old center of the football team at Boston College High School searched for the right words to sum up his feelings about accusations that the Patriots videotaped signals that Jets coaches sent to players during New England's 38-14 rout in Sunday's season opener.

In the wake of earlier critical reports - safety Rodney Harrison's use of human growth hormone, coach Bill Belichick's shoving of a photographer - it dawned on Geoff Gottbrecht that the Patriots had begun to remind him of a certain other, little-loved team.

"We used to be America's team," said Gottbrecht, as he stretched between plays at football practice yesterday. "Now, we're like the Yankees - we're the bad guys, and it seems like everyone out there hates us. That's the worst part about this."

Gottbrecht and other teammates' disappointment echoed the anger over a brewing scandal that has left coaches throughout the region struggling with how to explain the seeming violation of NFL rules to their players, many of whom grew up lionizing the Patriots.

At a press conference yesterday, Belichick issued an apology after the spying allegations, which this week sparked headlines such as the San Jose Mercury News's "Suspend Belichick, or he'll cheat again" and the Vancouver Sun's "Belichick no better than Bonds?" referring to the San Francisco Giants' slugger accused of steroid abuse.

It was not clear whether Belichick was apologizing for his actions or the furor that ensued.

"Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff, and players," Belichick said. "Following the league's decision, I will have further comment."

The coach's vague apology angered some student athletes and coaches.

"I'm really mad about this," said Tom Duffy, 18, a BC High senior who plays linebacker. "How do they go out and cheat and expect us to look up at them? They really let me down."

Billy Miller, a 17-year-old senior who plays wingback, has rooted for the Patriots all his life.

"This is what you don't want to think about happening," he said. "They shouldn't have to cheat at their level. It's just sad."

The lesson for student athletes is how cheating just once can ruin a reputation, said Phil Vaccaro, athletic director of Reading Memorial High School and chair of the sportsmanship committee of the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association.

"I tell my kids, no matter what it is, you need to play fair," he said. "It will always come back to haunt you if you don't."

"It took the Patriots a decade to build a great reputation, and it can all come down on this," Vacarro said. "It only takes one bad judgment to ruin the reputation of your entire program. In the long run, everyone finds out everything. If you think you're getting away with something, it will be exposed, and then your reputation is gone."

Not everyone had a problem if the Patriots were spying on the sideline. Roosevelt Robinson, head coach of Madison Park Technical Vocational High School in Roxbury, said all football teams expect their opponents to try to steal their signals. He said the onus should be on the teams to protect their signals. "Everybody looks for an edge," he said. "Once you come out on the field, everything is fair game. You have to have your stuff together, so no one breaks your code. Hey, the military does it, why wouldn't you do it on another field of war?"

The problem is they violated a league rule, said Jim O'Leary, coach of St. John's Preparatory School in Danvers.

"When you break the rules, there has to be a consequence," O'Leary said. "This casts a pall over the whole team."

What should be the consequence for the Patriots?

Some fans and commentators have suggested the team be fined, lose draft picks, or suspend or fire Belichick.

Frank Deford, the veteran sportswriter and commentator on National Public Radio, said the NFL should strip the Patriots of the victory.

"I think the game was tampered with, and it should be forfeited," he said in a telephone interview. "If a game is not played by the rules, it's cheating. Cheating ain't right. Once people off the field start manipulating the game, that is as evil as someone fixing the game from the outside. There's no difference than what Belichick did and if he had a gambler throw the game. He's manipulating the game by using people who aren't the players."

Asked whether the Patriots' apparent efforts differed much from the code-breaking attempts in most baseball games, Deford said the difference was the use of the video camera.

"In baseball, it's accepted that you can steal signals, but you can't use any devices to do it," he said. "If I'm clever enough to do it from the dugout, then it's OK. I've outsmarted you. But if I have a guy sitting in centerfield with binoculars, that's not fair. . . . It has to be done without artificial assistance."

There is also the problem, he and others said, of the example set for children.

Jonathon Gates, president of the Mattapan Patriots' Pop Warner football team, said he wants better role models for his players.

"It's about character; you have to have great character," he said. "You teach kids that you don't take short cuts. To me, this was just wrong."

At BC High yesterday, as the team practiced passing and blocking, Mitch McClune said the Patriots game raises questions about how they won in the past.

"It's really disappointing," said McClune, 17, a senior who plays linebacker. "This really sets a bad example."

__________________

[SouthernJet]

NY Jets:

TWO AFCE Titles

ONE SB Victory

NE Pats:

*

POTW for Assmops signature

[DMaynard]

It might be a good time for many Pats fan to jump off the bandwagon that they jumped on in 2001.

Here is my advise. Wait to see who wins this week. If the Chargers win, that is a great wagon to jump on. I can hear it now:

"I have been a Chargers fan since the days of Lance Alworth. And how about that Dan Fouts?"

[PFSIKH]

[chris66]

exactly,, thats probably why they did it,,they dont have th etalent to woin fair,,now we know,,

they had to steal signes to be competitive,,

ASTERISK

My point is I dont think the super bowls were tainted. all 3 games the pats had a poorer second half than in the first half and only won by 3 points in the last seconds. if they would have been cheating it would have been blowouts.

the jets got their asses handed to them because they are playing a watered down version of BB's defense. I'm pissed with mangini for being a stubborn mule fornot playing a defense that this team is set up for mainly a 4-3 cover 2 style

[shawn306]

The hypocracy of Boston fans knows no bounds.

How long have we heard about the Pats "Doing it the right way", Winning with Class" Bringing in the right kind of players.

What have we seen in the past couple of years

1) The Pats mocking TO dance in the Super Bowl

2) The Stomping on the Chargers logo in the playoffs last year

3) Video taping

4) Bringing in Thugs like Randy Moss

For years you hear them whine about the Yankees and how they are destroying the competitive balance in baseball and how they are ruining the game and how the Sox are the way you do things and now the tables are turned and it is the Pats who are being questioned and it gets poo-pooed like everyone does it.

Take a good long hard look in the mirror folks. The hate you are seeing now for the Pats is just the tip of the iceberg.

[afosomf]

Personal foul

His bill comes due big time

By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | September 14, 2007

***

There is no more gray area now. Those claims that "everybody does it" and "the Patriots didn't need surveillance to beat the Jets" ring hollow. The Commish has spoken, and his ruling ensures the Patriots will pay a steep price for their transgression.

In many ways, the damage was done before last night's sanctions were announced. Having Belichick and the Patriots outed as "cheaters" will always be the worst part of this. There's a legion of people waiting to harpoon the arrogant New England organization, and this episode has armed Patriot critics with weapons they can use forever.

***

Now they get hit with the double whammy. Because of the arrogance of the coach and his minions, the championship deeds of the players are reduced again.

Now enemies of the Patriots can claim that all those championships were won because of cheating, which, of course, is untrue. Patriot players have a right to be furious about this development.

Notice how many rival players, coaches, and executives have pounced on the Pats and Belichick this week? There's been a rush to pile on, a frenzy of Patriot hate. It's residue of seven years of coaches being reminded that they are stooges - they will lose to the Patriots because Belichick and his guys are smarter than everybody else.

***

A draft pick is lost and Belichick and the Patriots must live with the label of "cheaters." The Lombardi trophies are tarnished and every team the Pats trample forever has a one-size-fits-all excuse.

It's a sad chapter in the long history of New England sports

[SouthernJet]

My point is I dont think the super bowls were tainted. all 3 games the pats had a poorer second half than in the first half and only won by 3 points in the last seconds. if they would have been cheating it would have been blowouts.

the jets got their asses handed to them because they are playing a watered down version of BB's defense. I'm pissed with mangini for being a stubborn mule fornot playing a defense that this team is set up for mainly a 4-3 cover 2 style

just not true,,

that just shows even with cheating, the FAIR NFC teams were just better,,Pats probab;ly didnt even deserve to get in playoffs those years (who is to dispute that now),,and as we know now, the SuperBowls are tainted,, they cheated,,and still almost lost,,how bad were they,,

[DMaynard]

I'm pissed with mangini for being a stubborn mule fornot playing a defense that this team is set up for mainly a 4-3 cover 2 style

We would not be much better playing the 4-3, if at all. Vilma would definitely be better. Thomas would defintely be worse. DRob only slightly better. They are going with the 3-4. They have to keep getting better players.

[shawn306]

Personal foul

His bill comes due big time

By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | September 14, 2007

***

There is no more gray area now. Those claims that "everybody does it" and "the Patriots didn't need surveillance to beat the Jets" ring hollow. The Commish has spoken, and his ruling ensures the Patriots will pay a steep price for their transgression.

In many ways, the damage was done before last night's sanctions were announced. Having Belichick and the Patriots outed as "cheaters" will always be the worst part of this. There's a legion of people waiting to harpoon the arrogant New England organization, and this episode has armed Patriot critics with weapons they can use forever.

***

Now they get hit with the double whammy. Because of the arrogance of the coach and his minions, the championship deeds of the players are reduced again.

Now enemies of the Patriots can claim that all those championships were won because of cheating, which, of course, is untrue. Patriot players have a right to be furious about this development.

Notice how many rival players, coaches, and executives have pounced on the Pats and Belichick this week? There's been a rush to pile on, a frenzy of Patriot hate. It's residue of seven years of coaches being reminded that they are stooges - they will lose to the Patriots because Belichick and his guys are smarter than everybody else.

***

A draft pick is lost and Belichick and the Patriots must live with the label of "cheaters." The Lombardi trophies are tarnished and every team the Pats trample forever has a one-size-fits-all excuse.

It's a sad chapter in the long history of New England sports

Patriots fan spin: Shaughnessy is a Red Sox flunkie who has an axe to grind with the Pats.

[PFSIKH]

The hypocracy of Boston fans knows no bounds.

How long have we heard about the Pats "Doing it the right way", Winning with Class" Bringing in the right kind of players.

What have we seen in the past couple of years

1) The Pats mocking TO dance in the Super Bowl

2) The Stomping on the Chargers logo in the playoffs last year

3) Video taping

4) Bringing in Thugs like Randy Moss

For years you hear them whine about the Yankees and how they are destroying the competitive balance in baseball and how they are ruining the game and how the Sox are the way you do things and now the tables are turned and it is the Pats who are being questioned and it gets poo-pooed like everyone does it.

Take a good long hard look in the mirror folks. The hate you are seeing now for the Pats is just the tip of the iceberg.

Only if you are listening to the zealots.

They have always done their talking on the field and after the game. No one has said they are choir boys, but with that being said. News of players doing what has happened to the multitude of Bengals players and Justin Miller, is few and far between.

assmop Try the Indy papers. I am sure you can find alot of good stuff there also.

[SouthernJet]

Personal foul

His bill comes due big time

By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | September 14, 2007

the Patriots must live with the label of "cheaters." The Lombardi trophies are tarnished and every team the Pats trample forever has a one-size-fits-all excuse.

It's a sad chapter in the long history of New England sports

POTW for the Boston columnist,,he said it all,,spin all you want asterisk fans,, but he says it all...

[Green DNA]

Kind of hard to bring the hammer when teams readily acknowledge they steal signals.

You still don't get it and keep using this lame excuse. If you manage to catch on to a teams signals during a game, more power to you as this happens in every sport. If you use technology to do so, there is no longer a level playing field, that is a competitive advantage for the offending team. This is why the league sent out a memo at the beginning of the year addressing this very subject. Only one team has been caught doing this, the Patriots. No one else has been accused of this and if they did do it in the past, no other team is apparently stupid or arrogant enough to have done it after being warned, except of course, the Patriots.

[SouthernJet]

Only if you are listening to the zealots.

They have always done their talking on the field and after the game. No one has said they are choir boys, but with that being said. News of players doing what has happened to the multitude of Bengals players and Justin Miller, is few and far between.

assmop Try the Indy papers. I am sure you can find alot of good stuff there also.

***

[SouthernJet]

You still don't get it and keep using this lame excuse. If you manage to catch on to a teams signals during a game, more power to you as this happens in every sport. If you use technology to do so, there is no longer a level playing field, that is a competitive advantage for the offending team. This is why the league sent out a memo at the beginning of the year addressing this very subject. Only one team has been caught doing this, the Patriots. No one else has been accused of this and if they did do it in the past, no other team is apparently stupid or arrogant enough to have done it after being warned, except of course, the Patriots.

my guess is Pats fans are torn between accepting the tarnished accomplishemnets or steadfastly denying the obvious..I am sure its a very tough thing for them,,

they know the truth,,they cheated, and every victory in the Belly era is a sterisk,,they know that,,sad day for a once proud franchise,,they are the Barry Bonds of Football ...

[PFSIKH]

my guess is Pats fans are torn between accepting the tarnished accomplishemnets or steadfastly denying the obvious..I am sure its a very tough thing for them,,

they know the truth,,they cheated, and every victory in the Belly era is a sterisk,,they know that,,sad day for a once proud franchise,,they are the Barry Bonds of Football ...

Who exactly is in denial?

[afosomf]

Only if you are listening to the zealots.

They have always done their talking on the field and after the game. No one has said they are choir boys, but with that being said. News of players doing what has happened to the multitude of Bengals players and Justin Miller, is few and far between.

assmop Try the Indy papers. I am sure you can find alot of good stuff there also.

boston paper d1ck4

[SouthernJet]

Who exactly is in denial?

hahahaha

POTW

[Maxman]

Your asterik means nothing.

Despite the Jets grass root cry for a march on the NFL offices and execution of Belichick, the Commish has rendered his punishment. You could say him taken one first round pick (Patriots have two) or a 2nd and 3rd (Patriots have three), Belichick's $500K fine (he is making 4,2 million this year) and a team fine of $250K (the team is worth a billion dollars) is a mere slap on the wrist and is indicative of a common practice.

Kind of hard to bring the hammer when teams readily acknowledge they steal signals.

The fallout from this will mean that Belly won't be coaching that team next year (in my opinion).

Let me know how that slap feels?

[Alk]

It doesn't happen very often but there's actually a pretty interesting thread going on over at patsfans.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=60970

[16G-MONEY]

I wonder how the players truly feel on this... not their media quotes, but how they REALLY feel about playing for a "leader" that lacks confidence in them to the point where he feels the need to cheat in order to win. I'd be pissed if I were a Patriot on that team right now. i'd have NO respect for him because clearly he has no respect for his players.

[Whaler53]

Thats it, ,bottom line. Patriot fans can pump their chest all they want, but just as a Barry Bonds fan gets snickered and chastised, that is the Patriots new fate.

Forever now, they will have their 3 SuperBowls questioned. Brady will queried as to whether he is great or just the benefit of knowing all the 2nd half defensive schemes coming at him. Belly will definitly be labeled now as the coach who had to resort to knowing the def calls instead of fairly outplay and outcoaching a opponent. Both Brady and Belly's 1st ballot HOF induction is a major question mark, aka McGwuire.

Oh, they will say, other teams do it. But it is their team, their coach, their SuperBowls that are now officially tainted, but also in question. They won 3 SupewrBowls, and in each game they won by 3 points. Its pretty obvious the Pats would not have any trophies if they didnt cheat, and more than likely , they wouldnt have even been in ANY SuperBowls if they didnt cheat. Its not open for debate. They have been caught cheating and every accomplishement is in question.

From this day forward, any taunting, any braggadacio over past glory, can now be officially responded to by opposing teams and fans by a single word: ASTERISK.

I dissagree. As a Pats fan I haven't lost anything.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

I dissagree. As a Pats fan I haven't lost anything.

Well, you haven't shown much character, so that isn't suprising.

[SouthernJet]

I dissagree. As a Pats fan I haven't lost anything.

yes you did. the respect of all fans and other teams in the NFL..

you are the Barry Bond's of the NFL..

have fun wearing that shirt anywhere outside Boston,,you will see what is really thought of the NE Asterisk's

[Gainzo]

have fun wearing that shirt anywhere outside Boston,,you will see what is really thought of the NE Asterisk's

I'll be wearing my Pats cap tailgating before the Jets/Ravens game. I'll let you know how much abuse I get.

[DMaynard]

Who exactly is in denial?

Egyptian fishermen.

[BwanaZulia]

I'll be wearing my Pats cap tailgating before the Jets/Ravens game. I'll let you know how much abuse I get.

Borrow Bill's video camera and tape it for us.

BZ

[Gibbon]

SJ:

No matter how much I would like for what you have said in this thread regarding the Pats wins being tainted to be true the truth is that this will be largely forgotten in a month or two and now one will automatically think about the Pats Super Bowl wins are tainted. No one will remember.

This is an obsession with people like us who post on boards and root for team obsessively, but we're in the minority. Its not even a particularly big issue on other teams football boards.

[16G-MONEY]

I dissagree. As a Pats fan I haven't lost anything.

Keep telling yourself that. I know it's tough to get over... all of the money you spend... all of the time you spent... routing for a team that has now turned out to be a sham. You'll come around and, if you won't admit it to us jets fans, at least you will admit it to yourself in the privacy of your own trailer.