JETSFAN5180 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 51 points in 2 games no pressure on the QB. Its time to abandon this only because we lack the players to run it. Its time to make a few changes. Just because we will beat Miami does not make everything alright. Come on Mangini face reality and do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 It doesn't matter because the Jets don't have the defensive line personel to run a 4-3 either. So either way the Jets DL will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 You are right but in the 4-3 the linebackers will be more involved and they are a good group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 This idea that the JETS players would become all stars if switched to the 4-3 is crazy... How would Mangini go about doing this? Who would be the pass rushing DE? Who would the two DT's be? Pouha and Mosley are a better fit for NT... LB's... these guys now have 2 years playing in the 3-4... so there would actually be a learning curve back to the 4-3 and it would most likely not be pretty.l... what about the Harris pick? He is a 3-4 LB... Bryan Thomas is best sutied to play in the 3-4... going back to the 4-3 would also put more pressure on the CB's becuase they would not have that extra LB to help in pass coverage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 You still will not be able to keep the OL off Vilma. That would still be the problem. The Jets need and edge rusher and a NT. The rest of the personel is above average. They just happen to be missing 2 very important pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 You are right but in the 4-3 the linebackers will be more involved and they are a good group. Who would the LB's be? Bryan Thomas is a 4-3 DE... David Harris is a 3-4 LB not a 4-3 LB Barton is getting slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Who would the LB's be? Bryan Thomas is a 4-3 DE... David Harris is a 3-4 LB not a 4-3 LB Barton is getting slow It would be Hobson - SLB Vilma - MLB Barton - WLB The group would be good - but it still wouldn't solve our two biggest problems. Getting PRessure on the QB and stopping the run. Our pressure was a little better yesterday than it was the first week though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Jet Fan Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I actually think it would be alright with Thomas, D-Rob, Simone and Ellis/Coleman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 51 points in 2 games no pressure on the QB. Its time to abandon this only because we lack the players to run it. Its time to make a few changes. Just because we will beat Miami does not make everything alright. Come on Mangini face reality and do the right thing. Thats 58 points but whos counting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 51 points in 2 games no pressure on the QB. Its time to abandon this only because we lack the players to run it. Its time to make a few changes. Just because we will beat Miami does not make everything alright. Come on Mangini face reality and do the right thing. mangini will definately listen to you man, nice try. you get dee dee of the week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I actually think it would be alright with Thomas, D-Rob, Simone and Ellis/Coleman... Not at all... I highly doubt Drob would just all of the sudden be super effective in the 4-3... he wasnt even all that great the first time around Who is Simone? Do you mean Sione Pouha? He is not a good 4-3 DT... he is a big space eating NT... 4-3 DT's need to be fast and break through the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Thats 58 points but whos counting? 58 you are correct my bad. dee dee this................. The current situation is not working.Like I said beating Miami wont fix a thing it will only silence some of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 58 you are correct my bad. dee dee this................. The current situation is not working.Like I said beating Miami wont fix a thing it will only silence some of the fans. and you think that switching to a completely defesnive scheme 2 games into the 2nd year of the season would be a good thing? They have paid big bucks and drafted high for the 3-4 Harris - 2nd round pick B Thomas - new contract based on his play in the 3-4 Coleman - paid a lot to be a 3-4 DE SO you would throw all of that away.... The guys now need to learn a new system... it wont be the same as when herm was here either... this would be a completely new 4-3 system You will now have players that are ineffective in the 4-3 (thomas) but were effective in the 3-4 and people will be doing exactly what you are... claiming the 3-4 will solve everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Who would the LB's be? Bryan Thomas is a 4-3 DE... David Harris is a 3-4 LB not a 4-3 LB Barton is getting slow David Harris played the 43 in 3 of his 4 years at Michigan. He can be an OLB in the 43 and perform well. The unit would go as this: Ellis Robertson K.Coleman or Pouha Thomas David Bowens the top substitute. Barton or Hobson Vilma Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 We dont have the players to properly run the 3-4 in 2 games the pressure on the QB has been missing. We arent stopping the run what dont you understand? Its not like Baltimore had a good offense. Come on lets get real here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 David Harris played the 43 in 3 of his 4 years at Michigan. He can be an OLB in the 43 and perform well. The unit would go as this: Ellis Robertson K.Coleman or Pouha Thomas David Bowens the top substitute. Barton or Hobson Vilma Harris That would be terrible... Thomas has never been able to get pressure on the QB with his hand in the dirt... Coleman is a 3-4 end, not a DT, Pouha has little or no experience in any system and is getting old... Ellis would be the lone bright spot... but without help on the other side would be ineffective... As for the LB's... it would be hard for them to toss away 2 years of teaching and just start over with the 4-3... and it wouldnt be Herms 4-3... so Vilma awould also be starting over.... Its too late to go back now without doing some gutting and rebuilding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 We dont have the players to properly run the 3-4 in 2 games the pressure on the QB has been missing. We arent stopping the run what dont you understand? Its not like Baltimore had a good offense. Come on lets get real here. and you think that switching the system in the middle of a season would fix this problem? Your kidding right? You knwo it took HOUR and HOURS.... make that WEEKS AND WEEKS for these guys to get to the level of understanding with the D... its not like Mangini can flip a switch and the guys all become 4-3 studs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 That would be terrible... Thomas has never been able to get pressure on the QB with his hand in the dirt... Coleman is a 3-4 end, not a DT, Pouha has little or no experience in any system and is getting old... Ellis would be the lone bright spot... but without help on the other side would be ineffective... As for the LB's... it would be hard for them to toss away 2 years of teaching and just start over with the 4-3... and it wouldnt be Herms 4-3... so Vilma awould also be starting over.... Its too late to go back now without doing some gutting and rebuilding How do we know that Kenyon Coleman cannot play inside? Pouha getting old? Isn't he around 27, 28? Maybe a year older? Bryan Thomas has struggled in the 43, yes, in terms of pass rush. As a run stopper though he has played very well. Shaun Ellis would improve as a pass rusher in the 34 so I don't see this as being a huge loss. It would be hard to toss away 2 years of teaching? Its not like these guys havn't played in the 43 the majority of their careers from college and the pro's. It is never too late to go back. Maybe not this year, but next year there could maybe their should be a switch back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 That would be terrible... Thomas has never been able to get pressure on the QB with his hand in the dirt... Coleman is a 3-4 end, not a DT, Pouha has little or no experience in any system and is getting old... Ellis would be the lone bright spot... but without help on the other side would be ineffective... As for the LB's... it would be hard for them to toss away 2 years of teaching and just start over with the 4-3... and it wouldnt be Herms 4-3... so Vilma awould also be starting over.... Its too late to go back now without doing some gutting and rebuilding Very nicely put ecurb. The biggest problem with our defense right now is that we don't have a great player at the two most important positions in the scheme: NT and hybrid OLB. Until we get that we won't have a great defense its that simple. The 3-4 revolves around those two positions, especially NT. Show me a great 3-4 defense without a great NT and at least a very good pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 We don't have the personnel to run with the 3-4 OR the 4-3 right now. The defense just sucks, period. Furthermore, we've come too far to turn back now. It's the 3-4 or bust as long as Mangini is here. Which is not a terrible thing if we can simply get the personnel to run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 58 you are correct my bad. dee dee this................. The current situation is not working.Like I said beating Miami wont fix a thing it will only silence some of the fans. 51 is right. 7 were given up on a KO return for a TD. The jets have played a very soft zone D, and for the most part have sent only 3 or 4 guys in to rush the passer, once in a while 5. In any case, they are not getting the numbers, and are leaving the weak DL to try to get a rush, while a banged up secondary is getting toasted. Not a good gameplan, but Dyson apparently isnt healthy, Rhodes has not yet played as well as he did last season, and Barton is starting to show his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 the Jets have had two tough matchups in week 1 and 2, it's stupid to look at the stats at this point and declare everything a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 the Jets have had two tough matchups in week 1 and 2, it's stupid to look at the stats at this point and declare everything a failure. Agreed. Bigger than that-nobody in the front 7 is a player teams have to gameplan against. nobody demands a doubleteam. nobody blows up plays. Now, may be somebody in the front 7 (Harris? ) will suddenly be that kind of player. Spare me how Vilma suddenly becomes All Pro merely by lining him up differently. plus the Jets have in both games used varying fronts of 3 and 4 linemen.It may not be fair, but look at Adalius Thomas-FREAKING HUGE-and then look at Vilma-a blown up safety.I know the Urlacher comparison, but not sure it holds water. Vilma just isn't big or strong enough to be anything more than adequate to good. Look at D-rob and then look at Ngata yesterday. We need some size and talent, bad, upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christos607 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I've been pondering this question too. Mangini is is a 3-4 expert. If he switched solely to a 4-3 then he would be seriously limiting his talents. Now if we get that big NT & OLB, and we still fail by the end of that season; I'll seriously doubt Mangini. I don't believe that's gonna happen though. He's a very knowledgeable coach. I don't watch much college ball, but I hear there's a couple NTs & good OLBs. This should be worth it in the long run. We'll have a tricky defense. I'm just afraid he brought in Harris to replace Vilma if he doesn't step it up. Whatever is best for the Jets and Vilma though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackbackblock Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 the Jets have had two tough matchups in week 1 and 2, it's stupid to look at the stats at this point and declare everything a failure. I agree. But if we are staying in the 34 and we need a space eater at NT who do we draft? Red Bryant, Frank Okam, Jason Shirley or a BJ Raji? I have seen all four and they seem to be a pretty good group. Who do you like coming out of the college ranks next year? It seems that these guys don't make it to FA very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awats Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 This idea that the JETS players would become all stars if switched to the 4-3 is crazy... How would Mangini go about doing this? Who would be the pass rushing DE? Who would the two DT's be? Pouha and Mosley are a better fit for NT... LB's... these guys now have 2 years playing in the 3-4... so there would actually be a learning curve back to the 4-3 and it would most likely not be pretty.l... what about the Harris pick? He is a 3-4 LB... Bryan Thomas is best sutied to play in the 3-4... going back to the 4-3 would also put more pressure on the CB's becuase they would not have that extra LB to help in pass coverage... THEY DON'T HAVE 2 YEARS PLAYING IN THE 3/4, THEY HAVE 1 YEAR AND 2 GAMES PLAYING IN THE 3/4. But, your point is well taken. They'll get better. AND quite frankly, as long as we see improvement this year, I don't care where we wind up in the standings. I root for my team! I hope they win! I realize we don't have the weapons to make a real dent this season, but we certainly can improve as the season progresses. McGahee only got 97yards instead of his usual 100 (lol) Darelle played very well, Cotcher was better than good, Clemens showed he's a keeper. Fergeson has to step up. Nugent is only going to get better if he doesn't get killed. Justin Miller won't be missed as much as everyone thinks. I could go on and on, but in the final analysis, we did not do to bad a job against the team with the best home opener winning record and arguably the best defense in the league. As one poster put it before, "Hindsight is 20/20. We always have to be reminded that we are a work in progress. AND I don't want to hear that there are no works in progress in the NFL, because there is nad we are positive proof. (PHeeeew, I need a drink). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 51 points in 2 games no pressure on the QB. Its time to abandon this only because we lack the players to run it. Its time to make a few changes. Just because we will beat Miami does not make everything alright. Come on Mangini face reality and do the right thing. Damn you, you nailed it again. How the hell do you do it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 David Harris played the 43 in 3 of his 4 years at Michigan. He can be an OLB in the 43 and perform well. The unit would go as this: Ellis Robertson K.Coleman or Pouha Thomas David Bowens the top substitute. Barton or Hobson Vilma Harris almost exact, I'd switch Ellis and Coleman,Coleman had himself a nice game on the End and Ellis always played inside,didn't he? I think Coleman,Ellis,DRob,Thomas and behind them Harris/Barton, Vilma, Harris/Hobson Darelle"This side's closed"Revis and Dice-Man on the corners. Kerry"ProBowl"Rhodes and Coleman/Smilth at SS You had a Bad A$$ defense I don't give a s--t!!! That is a bad mutha f--kin defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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