GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is ridiculous. Vilma is too soft to play in the middle. I just went back and reviewed our first 2 games, specifically looking at Vilma and D-Rob on Defense. In 2 games, Vilma made 3 plays. He had more tackles than that, but tackles 6-8 yards downfield don't help. He never is moving forward towards the LOS at the snap. He either waits for the play to come to him, 8 yards downfield, or is pushed backwards without a big fight. Horrible. Even when he blitzes, he doesn't crash the LOS, he looks for an opening. Show some balls! Get physical! You're an ILB, fer cryin' out loud! I know this is sacreligious around here. It's D-Robs fault. I cal BS. D-Rob actually played pretty good. There is a reason the FO traded up to get Harris. Let him play! He can't be any worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 NO! YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 i want to see harris get some minutes. i want to see him crack some skulls together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 YES! NO WAY!!! Especially this week in his home area ,he will step up and have a huge game in Miami... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I.MikeBleedsGreen Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is ridiculous. Vilma is too soft to play in the middle. I just went back and reviewed our first 2 games, specifically looking at Vilma and D-Rob on Defense. In 2 games, Vilma made 3 plays. He had more tackles than that, but tackles 6-8 yards downfield don't help. He never is moving forward towards the LOS at the snap. He either waits for the play to come to him, 8 yards downfield, or is pushed backwards without a big fight. Horrible. Even when he blitzes, he doesn't crash the LOS, he looks for an opening. Show some balls! Get physical! You're an ILB, fer cryin' out loud! I know this is sacreligious around here. It's D-Robs fault. I cal BS. D-Rob actually played pretty good. There is a reason the FO traded up to get Harris. Let him play! He can't be any worse! :banned:Uh..........NO Thanks ,Vilma stays............Next!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 i want to see harris get some minutes. i want to see him crack some skulls together. Agreed! The MLB or ILB need to be apha's. The need the attitude, "This is MY field, and if you want it, you're gonna have to come thru me to get it". All the great inside backers had that attitude. You could see it in Ray Lewis. Vilma looks like he is happy the big kids let him play! On D we need attitude, not nice guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 :banned:Uh..........NO Thanks ,Vilma stays............Next!!!!!!!!! Nice argument! Its the "Mike has spoken" defense. Maybe OJ should hire you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Agreed! The MLB or ILB need to be apha's. The need the attitude, "This is MY field, and if you want it, you're gonna have to come thru me to get it". All the great inside backers had that attitude. You could see it in Ray Lewis. Vilma looks like he is happy the big kids let him play! On D we need attitude, not nice guys. Yea! Well then let me tell you about attitude I spoke with J.V.`S father after the game and expressed to me how P.O.`D john is about the first 2 losses ,he said in all his years of playing football this is the first time he`s been 0-2 .It`s good to here at least some of the players are get as ticked off about the loss` as the fans. I believe they will get this turned around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Yea! Well then let me tell you about attitude I spoke with J.V.`S father after the game and expressed to me how P.O.`D john is about the first 2 losses ,he said in all his years of playing football this is the first time he`s been 0-2 .It`s good to here at least some of the players are get as ticked off about the loss` as the fans. I believe they will get this turned around... Well, that's great... I'm glad that his is PO'd after the game. Why couldn't he play like he was PO'd DURING the game. Did he look PO'd to you? How about aggravated? Annoyed? Slightly peturbed? Any emotion at all? I did not see any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Vilma sucks in the 3-4. We need to trade him after the season is over. He is literally a liability in the 3-4, he's that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Allright, I'll jump on your sinking ship with you. Granted I have not studied him on film as you say you have, I think the question is a valid one. Vilma is an enormous playmaker-in the 4-3. He has not stepped up and made a big play even once in the 3-4 D. From the plays where I've watched him specifically I will agree that he is much more apt to run around blockers which is a big no no in a 3-4. His potential is enormous, but last year and apparantly this year he is a liability in our style of D. Mangini is clearly sticking to the D he wants, he should be able to play the guys that best fit that style of D. Personally I did vocalize my opinion that we should have traded him prior to this season. We would have received 1st round value for him. Next year, not so much. The year after than he's a FA. If you think he's gonna stick around knowing his value is dropping in the 3-4 system then you're nuts. While the person who started this thread's opinion may not be popular, it is definitely valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetpower10 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Thats bs Vilma is a awesome MLB. No he isnt a Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, or even Zach Thomas but wtf you cant expect him to be great. Holy **** you werent all bitching about him last year stfu seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY JETS 29 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Vilma is a playmaker! Bench him? That is a ridiculous statement, but I will say this. If Vilma can't learn and be a playmaker in this system then in the offseason we may consider trading him for some value. Vilma is a true MLB in a 4-3 scheme, a pro bowl MLB in a 4-3 scheme to be honest, but has yet got comfortable with the 3-4 scheme. We need Vilma going sideline to sideline and in this defense it restricts him of doing so. Let's see what happens this season, it's only week 2, but if he has a sub-average year then maybe we trade him in the offseason and atleast get value. He is a captain and the heart of our defense along with Ellis, but to say bench him is out there. I love Vilma, but as to date the 3-4 scheme isnt seeming to be his fit, maybe the coaches need to do a better job puttin him in spots to make plays, I dont know. Time will only tell with J-Ville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is ridiculous. Vilma is too soft to play in the middle. I just went back and reviewed our first 2 games, specifically looking at Vilma and D-Rob on Defense. In 2 games, Vilma made 3 plays. He had more tackles than that, but tackles 6-8 yards downfield don't help. He never is moving forward towards the LOS at the snap. He either waits for the play to come to him, 8 yards downfield, or is pushed backwards without a big fight. Horrible. Even when he blitzes, he doesn't crash the LOS, he looks for an opening. Show some balls! Get physical! You're an ILB, fer cryin' out loud! Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Vilma sucks in the 3-4. We need to trade him after the season is over. He is literally a liability in the 3-4, he's that bad. I don't know that it is the 3-4 that is the problem. Vilma wants to move east and west, not sticking his nose into the action unless he has a clear path to the ball carrier. It doesn't work that way. You have to be aggressive. Vilma is the Chad of defense. Cautious, won't make the big mistake, but won't make the big play either. Watch Ray Lewis from last week's game. At every snap, he is moving forward, defending HIS turf. JV moved forward at the snap, excluding blitzes, 3 times. and 2 out of those 3 times he made a play. The rest of the time he plays statue in the middle. I don't know, maybe it is coaching. Maybe they want him to "read before reacting" but maybe we can get him a speed reading course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Allright, I'll jump on your sinking ship with you. Granted I have not studied him on film as you say you have, I think the question is a valid one. Vilma is an enormous playmaker-in the 4-3. He has not stepped up and made a big play even once in the 3-4 D. From the plays where I've watched him specifically I will agree that he is much more apt to run around blockers which is a big no no in a 3-4. His potential is enormous, but last year and apparantly this year he is a liability in our style of D. Mangini is clearly sticking to the D he wants, he should be able to play the guys that best fit that style of D. Personally I did vocalize my opinion that we should have traded him prior to this season. We would have received 1st round value for him. Next year, not so much. The year after than he's a FA. If you think he's gonna stick around knowing his value is dropping in the 3-4 system then you're nuts. While the person who started this thread's opinion may not be popular, it is definitely valid. Good post. Well said! Here, hold this anchor, will ya... blub, blub, blub... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Jet Fan Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Its not Vilmas fault its the way he plays...Ray Lewis couldnt do **** in the 3-4 either, the difference is Vilma didn't publically bitch about it. Vilma also is responsible for making pre snap reads and putting people in the right place. Trading Vilma would be smart b/c we could get something for him...say what you want but the guy is a beast in the 4-3 and its sad he can't show off his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Vilma is a playmaker! Bench him? That is a ridiculous statement, but I will say this. If Vilma can't learn and be a playmaker in this system then in the offseason we may consider trading him for some value. Vilma is a true MLB in a 4-3 scheme, a pro bowl MLB in a 4-3 scheme to be honest, but has yet got comfortable with the 3-4 scheme. We need Vilma going sideline to sideline and in this defense it restricts him of doing so. Let's see what happens this season, it's only week 2, but if he has a sub-average year then maybe we trade him in the offseason and atleast get value. He is a captain and the heart of our defense along with Ellis, but to say bench him is out there. I love Vilma, but as to date the 3-4 scheme isnt seeming to be his fit, maybe the coaches need to do a better job puttin him in spots to make plays, I dont know. Time will only tell with J-Ville. I'm confused. He's a playmaker, but not in this system. What play can you recall last year up to now? Personally I can't remember one. He's a playmaker in a 4-3, in a 3-4 he's a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Its not Vilmas fault its the way he plays...Ray Lewis couldnt do **** in the 3-4 either, the difference is Vilma didn't publically bitch about it. Vilma also is responsible for making pre snap reads and putting people in the right place. Trading Vilma would be smart b/c we could get something for him...say what you want but the guy is a beast in the 4-3 and its sad he can't show off his talent. Baltimore plays the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjetsjetsjets Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 i say trade vilma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Baltimore plays the 3-4. Yeah... but Lewis was having a hard time until they got a true NT in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 After two games?? Seriously do us all a favor and STFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Yeah... but Lewis was having a hard time until they got a true NT in front of him. True, but if you look at Sundays game, D-Rob played pretty good. He did get pushed back maybe twice, but all in all, hse held his ground and made some plays. Vilma just cannot deal with fighting thu block to get to the ball carrier. If he has a clear shot, he is awesome, but If he has to deal with an O-Lineman or a fullback, he is terrible. Unfortunately, clear shots are few around the LOS. 8 nyards deep, maybe, but not up where it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY JETS 29 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I'm confused. He's a playmaker, but not in this system. What play can you recall last year up to now? Personally I can't remember one. He's a playmaker in a 4-3, in a 3-4 he's a liability. I can agree with that, but he still has playmaking abilities even in a 3-4. Scheme aside his talent and athleticism is remarkable and has playmaking abilities. I cant argue that he hasnt made many plays in the last 19 games, He was very influential in our win up in New England last season though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 After two games?? Seriously do us all a favor and STFU Oh, that's right, Vilma was stout against the run last year! This is a new occurance! NOT! And btw, the STFU argument really doesn't work all that well past second grade. STFU! No, You! No, You! No backsees! I'm rubber you're glue! Nice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is ridiculous. Vilma is too soft to play in the middle. I just went back and reviewed our first 2 games, specifically looking at Vilma and D-Rob on Defense. In 2 games, Vilma made 3 plays. He had more tackles than that, but tackles 6-8 yards downfield don't help. He never is moving forward towards the LOS at the snap. He either waits for the play to come to him, 8 yards downfield, or is pushed backwards without a big fight. Horrible. Even when he blitzes, he doesn't crash the LOS, he looks for an opening. Show some balls! Get physical! You're an ILB, fer cryin' out loud! I know this is sacreligious around here. It's D-Robs fault. I cal BS. D-Rob actually played pretty good. There is a reason the FO traded up to get Harris. Let him play! He can't be any worse! This is a brilliant idea. Let's bench one of our best defensive players, destroying his trade value in the process, so Mangini can continue to run his ineffective 3-4 scheme. Jets should either go back to a 4-3 scheme, the scheme that made Vilma a pro-bowler leading the NFL in tackles in 2005, or just trade him for a first round pick. Go ahead, bench Vilma. Our run defense and pass rush will continue to suck plus we'll have the added benefit of not being able to get a 1st round pick for him after the season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is a brilliant idea. Let's bench one of our best defensive players, destroying his trade value in the process, so Mangini can continue to run his ineffective 3-4 scheme. Jets should either go back to a 4-3 scheme, the scheme that made Vilma a pro-bowler leading the NFL in tackles in 2005, or just trade him for a first round pick. Go ahead, bench Vilma. Our run defense and pass rush will continue to suck plus we'll have the added benefit of not being able to get a 1st round pick for him after the season is over. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2005.htm 2005 New York Jets Team Defense |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD 285 462 2948 6.38 17 21 554 2185 3.94 19 5133NFL rank ---> 6 3 2 7 8 5 32 29 14 27 11 Yeah, we had a great run defense in 2005, playing the 4-3. 29th in yds and 27th in TDs. Yup,real stout. JV made 128 tacklesand 45 assists. Unfortunately, they were all 5-8 yards downfield.We have not had a good run defense since Marvin Jones was in his prime. Btw, a players value is defined by his play. Not so much value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Seriously watch him play closely last week if you have a copy of the game. Vilma was getting pushed around like a pinball, and the only tackles he made were 6-8 yards down the field. I did not see him fight through a single block successfully last week. Im sure with a beefy NT he would do better but the fact remains we don't have one, and those 3-4 NT's are RARE. He is not our best defensive player in the 3-4, in fact I'd say he is a huge liability playing the ILB position in the 3-4 because of his size and playstyle. The best thing to do is trade him while we can still get something for him, he isn't going to fit here and we obviously aren't going to a 4-3 anytime in the near future unless there is a coaching change. He probably still is a top notch 4-3 player, but the fact remains that isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2005.htm 2005 New York Jets Team Defense |---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD 285 462 2948 6.38 17 21 554 2185 3.94 19 5133NFL rank ---> 6 3 2 7 8 5 32 29 14 27 11 Yeah, we had a great run defense in 2005, playing the 4-3. 29th in yds and 27th in TDs. Yup,real stout. JV made 128 tacklesand 45 assists. Unfortunately, they were all 5-8 yards downfield.We have not had a good run defense since Marvin Jones was in his prime. Btw, a players value is defined by his play. Not so much value. wow, that formating is horrible. it should look like this: |---------- PASSING -------------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD 285 462 2948 6.38 17 21 554 2185 3.94 19 5133 NFL rank ---> 6 3 2 7 8 5 32 2 9 14 27 11 Yeah, we had a great run defense in 2005, playing the 4-3. 29th in yds and 27th in TDs. Yup,real stout. JV made 128 tacklesand 45 assists. Unfortunately, they were all 5-8 yards downfield.We have not had a good run defense since Marvin Jones was in his prime. Btw, a players value is defined by his play. Not so much value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Dont we use the 4-3 on occasion still? My guess is thats why weve kept Vilma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 NO WAY!!! Especially this week in his home area ,he will step up and have a huge game in Miami... I hope you mentioned to Jon's Dad while you were taling to him, that if Jon shows up at Dolphins Stadium on Sunday, he will be the only one there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I hope you mentioned to Jon's Dad while you were taling to him, that if Jon shows up at Dolphins Stadium on Sunday, he will be the only one there LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#90 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Vilma's too small for the 3-4 ILB. Period. We have no choice but to make do with him this year. But, we need to trade him in the off-season. D. Harris is going to be a rock for years to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.