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Bench Vilma


GandWFan
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I dont see Vilma being very effective in the current 3-4 so it's a double edged sword leaving him in there to maintain his trade value when he's not making an impact. But you cant bench the guy either. I'd love to see what Harris could do with everything else equal in the 3-4. We already know what Vilma can do in the 4-3.

Other than the emotional dilema of admitting that our superstar linebacker cannot hold the point of attack on a run, if you admit that he is not effective, and we are not going away from the 3-4, why can't you bench him? If you have a better replacement, why can't he sit? Pass coverage?

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I said that he might be worth a trade that high to someone who needed a 4-3 MLB. What's-his-name on Carolina was a walking concussion. Another one & he is (or should be) out of the league for his own good. Forget when they picked exactly but think it was high teens. That's about as much value I think Vilma had as an even-up trade. Only other one maybe could have been Buffalo who picked even higher I think.

But just because Vilma doesn't carry a certain trade value league-wide doesn't mean that a team with a specific need at Vilma's position wouldn't over-pay to acquire said player. Was Keyshawn Johnson worth two first-round picks? Absurd. Doesn't mean there were no teams willing to part with them.

Would it have been worthwhile for us to deal JV for a low first or a high second? If we didn't get a dud with that pick, of course. But that assumes (1) that some team was making such offers, and (2) that the PR or internal backlash among the other players was outweighed by that rookie's play.

I didn't mean to disparage you or anything. I just remember a discussion around draft time where I was arguing because I didn't think his value was that high. Maybe you were just playing devil's advocate.

And that, I believe, is why JV probably will not sit. He is a leader in the locker room. He is the consistant veteran presence. Unfortunately his recent play does not warrent this, but until it is painfully obvious to his fellow players that he should not be on the field, he will continue to start.

Just look at the reaction to this thread by the Jets fans contingent who are knowlegeable enough to post here. It will take a lot for the players who have gone to war with him every week to realize he is not the best fit.

As for 2005, we'll have to agree to disagree, but he was NOT the problem on that D and IMO with all the time they spent on the field they performed OK. Opening day excepted. I don't think players take that long to turn on their own. It's not high school, these guys are not buddies, they all know they have short careers and if they want to win they want the best players on the field. If they think Harris gives a better chance to win than Barton or Vilma I think they will let the coaches know ASAP.

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Harris played a bunch of plays last week, and saw some time in the first game, too. He has been credited with zero tackles so far.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyj/stats;_ylt=AuQfs.6PjkQAHT0WTkJ5iYWQ2bYF

I didn't notice harris in there, but I'm sure that I just missed it. Could you let me know when he played? Game, quarter, and possibly drive? I'd like to see if he looked lost, or is catching on to the defensive schemes.

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I didn't mean to disparage you or anything. I just remember a discussion around draft time where I was arguing because I didn't think his value was that high. Maybe you were just playing devil's advocate.

As for 2005, we'll have to agree to disagree, but he was NOT the problem on that D and IMO with all the time they spent on the field they performed OK. Opening day excepted. I don't think players take that long to turn on their own. It's not high school, these guys are not buddies, they all know they have short careers and if they want to win they want the best players on the field. If they think Harris gives a better chance to win than Barton or Vilma I think they will let the coaches know ASAP.

You could be right. I don't know. I do know that pro footbal players have been fed a team first mentaility since grade school. They go to war as a unit. Team unity has been part of the football culture their entire lives, thru high school, on thru college.

Now the nfl is a business, so team spirit and teammate loyalties may not mean as much to them, but I think they may not be able to turn that stuff off so quickly. It is engrained pretty deep. As it should be.

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Other than the emotional dilema of admitting that our superstar linebacker cannot hold the point of attack on a run, if you admit that he is not effective, and we are not going away from the 3-4, why can't you bench him? If you have a better replacement, why can't he sit? Pass coverage?

Thats a tough one - theres 1 for sure in the equation . You bench Vilma and his trade value spirals into the flusher. And if you split time with the 2, do you get to see enough of Harris's potential when you factor in he's a rook. I don't have an answer. Week 1 it looked like we ran a fair amount of 4-3 set ups and I haven't looked at it play by play - but obviously the D sucked. We played a little better against a half as potent offense Sunday and actually had some decent stops. Not enough, but some. I hope theres no ego riding on the CS decisions with the 4-3 vs. 3-4

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Other than the emotional dilema of admitting that our superstar linebacker cannot hold the point of attack on a run, if you admit that he is not effective, and we are not going away from the 3-4, why can't you bench him? If you have a better replacement, why can't he sit? Pass coverage?

Vilma has been dropping into coverage some, as they had him do later in the season last year. After Rhodes took that wicked hit vs the Ravens, more so.

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IMO, this board vastly overrates Vilma's play in the 4-3. He is good to very good. Not very good to great. I question our ability to get a first for him. If I were a 4-3 GM I would not have made that trade. I still like Vilma and think he has value and if Harris were ready I'm sure he'd be getting playing time spelling Barton and Vilma. Since he isn't we can assume he's not ready yet.

As for the Jets being unable to bench/trade Vilma because of his playcalling ability it didn't stop them from ditching Kendall.

I'd take a good to very good Vilma in the 4-3 over an average-bad Vilma in the 3-4 any day of the week. The guy led the league in tackles in '05 and was superb as a rookie in 2004. Mangini is wasting this guy's talent.

Right now Vilma is worth a mid-late 1st round pick. In a 4-3 scheme he can get you 120+ tackles a year and he is a terrific locker room guy. Look at Patrick Willis in SF right now, that was Vilma until Mangini came to town.

Bottom Line: Mangini should either quit running the 3-4 or trade Vilma.

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http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj2005.htm

2005 New York Jets

Team Defense

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD 285 462 2948 6.38 17 21 554 2185 3.94 19 5133NFL rank ---> 6 3 2 7 8 5 32 29 14 27 11 Yeah, we had a great run defense in 2005, playing the 4-3. 29th in yds and 27th in TDs. Yup,real stout. JV made 128 tacklesand 45 assists. Unfortunately, they were all 5-8 yards downfield.We have not had a good run defense since Marvin Jones was in his prime. Btw, a players value is defined by his play. Not so much value.

Conveniently, you neglect to to mention that the '05 team completely fell apart. Bradway let Jason Ferguson go for nothing in return, Ellis and D-Rob both got hurt and John Abraham did nothing all season but play stat whore so he could get a contract.

Not to mention the fact that the Offense was a disaster in 2005 with the o-line falling apart and Chad Pennington going down with the shoulder injury and Curtis Martin riding into the sunset. The offense couldn't stay on the field and our defense was forced to play the entire game.

Yeah, that was Vilma's fault.

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I'd take a good to very good Vilma in the 4-3 over an average-bad Vilma in the 3-4 any day of the week. The guy led the league in tackles in '05 and was superb as a rookie in 2004. Mangini is wasting this guy's talent.

Right now Vilma is worth a mid-late 1st round pick. In a 4-3 scheme he can get you 120+ tackles a year and he is a terrific locker room guy. Look at Patrick Willis in SF right now, that was Vilma until Mangini came to town.

Bottom Line: Mangini should either quit running the 3-4 or trade Vilma.

Hey brilliant football guy who knows everything, I guess you're notes forgot to tell you that San Fran runs a 3-4. Willis is great in a 3-4. Vilma is not.

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Conveniently, you neglect to to mention that the '05 team completely fell apart. Bradway let Jason Ferguson go for nothing in return, Ellis and D-Rob both got hurt and John Abraham did nothing all season but play stat whore so he could get a contract.

Not to mention the fact that the Offense was a disaster in 2005 with the o-line falling apart and Chad Pennington going down with the shoulder injury and Curtis Martin riding into the sunset. The offense couldn't stay on the field and our defense was forced to play the entire game.

Yeah, that was Vilma's fault.

The Jets have not had a stud MLB/ILB since Marvin Jones. Vilma is fast, but will not take on blockers.

Tell me something... Why is Zack Thomas excellent in the 3-4. He is essentially the same size as Vilma, yet he can take on blockers at the point of attack and blows up running plays. Please explain that to me.

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I'd take a good to very good Vilma in the 4-3 over an average-bad Vilma in the 3-4 any day of the week. The guy led the league in tackles in '05 and was superb as a rookie in 2004. Mangini is wasting this guy's talent.

Right now Vilma is worth a mid-late 1st round pick. In a 4-3 scheme he can get you 120+ tackles a year and he is a terrific locker room guy. Look at Patrick Willis in SF right now, that was Vilma until Mangini came to town.

Bottom Line: Mangini should either quit running the 3-4 or trade Vilma.

If you believe in the system then it can be worth letting one guy slip. Mangini is supposed to be an adaptive "genius" and he should be able to utilize Vilma's strengths better even without switching back to the 4-3. That's what really pisses me off.

As for Patrick Willis, I'm not surprised that somebody brought him up. Before the draft with all the Vilma trade chatter I asked if anybody would trade Vilma for Willis. I believe the concensus was no because we already knew Vilma was good. I would have. I actually haven't seen any SF games and planned to ask how Willis was doing. IMO Willis is/was a MUCH better prospect than Vilma coming out. He is at least as big and considerably faster. He ran a 4.35 which is probably 2 tenths faster than Vilma who is already a rocket at LB.

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I know you Cane guys love JV. I don't follow colege ball, so I never saw him play. I'm sure he tore it up. But at this level he hasn't. Even in the 4-3.

.

FSU fan here ummmmm You're kidding right. or were you locked up overseas for his rookie year,awwww you missed it,yeah, like week 3 he straight up stole Sam Cowart's spot at MLB and never looked back. I think he won ROY or was a nominee. He won something besides the staring job.

If you tell me Jon Vilma didn't "tear it up" as a ROOKIE in the 4-3, I would have to say, You arewrong,Sir.

and just so I don't have to look for it.

Peter North had a FANTASTIC post in this thread which started with a sarcastic sentence. Nice Job PN.POTW!!!!!

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I don't know that it is the 3-4 that is the problem. Vilma wants to move east and west, not sticking his nose into the action unless he has a clear path to the ball carrier. It doesn't work that way. You have to be aggressive. Vilma is the Chad of defense. Cautious, won't make the big mistake, but won't make the big play either.

Watch Ray Lewis from last week's game. At every snap, he is moving forward, defending HIS turf. JV moved forward at the snap, excluding blitzes, 3 times. and 2 out of those 3 times he made a play. The rest of the time he plays statue in the middle.

I don't know, maybe it is coaching. Maybe they want him to "read before reacting" but maybe we can get him a speed reading course!

maybe it's the ummmmmm 4-3!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tell me something... Why is Zack Thomas excellent in the 3-4. He is essentially the same size as Vilma, yet he can take on blockers at the point of attack and blows up running plays. Please explain that to me.

The dolphins have played a 4-3 Zach's ENTIRE HOF career until this year where they are using many looks because of the addition of Joey Porter and the emergence of Channing Crowder as their only good draft pick in a decade.and Zach is "uncomfortable" in the 3-4 but will do "what the coach says"

Zach Thomas is not GREAT in the 3-4 that's BS!!!!

I reside in south florida. since 91(raul allegre,bruce coslet 8-8 playoffs) I know UM football, Vilma's a monster. I know Dolphin football. They play a 4-3 always have.

Jason Taylor gets his sacks because he is a 4-3 DE,like Gastineau, not a 3-4 LB like LT.

A 4-3 DE like ABE.

"Why is Zack Thomas excellent in the 3-4?" what's the punchline?

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maybe it's the ummmmmm 4-3!!!!!!!!!!!!

You seriously need to let this go. Mangini does play a number of 4-3 fronts and they are no more effective than a 4-3.

Truth be told we dont have the personel to run either D properly yet. We havent been able to run a 4-3 properly since Ferguson left and we cant run a 3-4 due to our only decent DT being incredibly undersized.

We will be a very good 3-4 D in a few years IMO if we can just sort out the NT position.

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We will be a very good 3-4 D in a few years IMO if we can just sort out the NT position.

I agree. If you guys get a decent NT your D will be good. lancemehl has lost the plot as he wants to change the entire D because of one player.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vilma is traded.

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You seriously need to let this go. Mangini does play a number of 4-3 fronts and they are no more effective than a 4-3.

Truth be told we dont have the personel to run either D properly yet. We havent been able to run a 4-3 properly since Ferguson left and we cant run a 3-4 due to our only decent DT being incredibly undersized.

We will be a very good 3-4 D in a few years IMO if we can just sort out the NT position.

I personally think D-Rob is actually better than Ellis, so Ellis will probably go when we get an NT.

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I'm confused. He's a playmaker, but not in this system. What play can you recall last year up to now? Personally I can't remember one. He's a playmaker in a 4-3, in a 3-4 he's a liability.

He's a playmaker in the 4-3. Last year was when Mangini started the Jets on the 3-4 and apparentl that's what he's sticking with.

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The dolphins have played a 4-3 Zach's ENTIRE HOF career until this year where they are using many looks because of the addition of Joey Porter and the emergence of Channing Crowder as their only good draft pick in a decade.and Zach is "uncomfortable" in the 3-4 but will do "what the coach says"

Zach Thomas is not GREAT in the 3-4 that's BS!!!!

I reside in south florida. since 91(raul allegre,bruce coslet 8-8 playoffs) I know UM football, Vilma's a monster. I know Dolphin football. They play a 4-3 always have.

Jason Taylor gets his sacks because he is a 4-3 DE,like Gastineau, not a 3-4 LB like LT.

A 4-3 DE like ABE.

"Why is Zack Thomas excellent in the 3-4?" what's the punchline?

Well, I don't follow the Phins real closely, so you are probably correct. I was under the impression that they were a 3-4 team. I could be wrong, it won't be the first time.

But after ferguson left in 05, Vilma was still in a 4-3 and we were terrible against the run. I know, it's abe, or ellis, or drob's fault, but the facts remain. he did not dominate.

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FSU fan here ummmmm You're kidding right. or were you locked up overseas for his rookie year,awwww you missed it,yeah, like week 3 he straight up stole Sam Cowart's spot at MLB and never looked back. I think he won ROY or was a nominee. He won something besides the staring job.

If you tell me Jon Vilma didn't "tear it up" as a ROOKIE in the 4-3, I would have to say, You arewrong,Sir.

and just so I don't have to look for it.

Peter North had a FANTASTIC post in this thread which started with a sarcastic sentence. Nice Job PN.POTW!!!!!

If you bothered to read my posts, I said he had a good rookie year. What has he done since? He is the superstar of our D, right? 128 tackles in 05, but 29th in running yards allowed. That's a log of tackles 5+ yards downfield. Then after the Mangini switch, he has disappeared.

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I agree. If you guys get a decent NT your D will be good. lancemehl has lost the plot as he wants to change the entire D because of one player.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vilma is traded.

We need a NT, a pass-rusher (either DE or OLB) and another ILB to complement Harris. With those 3 pieces we would have an awsome D. Oh, and maybe one more CB to complement Revis, our new Ty Law. Asante, what are you doing next year?

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Unless the coaching staff plans to switch back to the 43 after this season then Jonathan Vilma is as good as gone before the draft in April.

Superman's only weakness is Kryptonite. Kellen Clemens laughs at Superman for having a weakness.

When Kellen Clemens does a push-up, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the world down.

Kellen Clemens can slam a revolving door.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!

That just made my night. Thanks 124!

START CLEMENS ALREADYYYYYYYYYY

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True, but if you look at Sundays game, D-Rob played pretty good. He did get pushed back maybe twice, but all in all, hse held his ground and made some plays. Vilma just cannot deal with fighting thu block to get to the ball carrier. If he has a clear shot, he is awesome, but If he has to deal with an O-Lineman or a fullback, he is terrible. Unfortunately, clear shots are few around the LOS. 8 nyards deep, maybe, but not up where it counts.

So the answer is:

Come in and insert a system tht negates your #4 overall who you gave up everything you had to get because he was that good, negates your BEST defensive player by far another first rounder. WHY????? Because he's a genius?? or it's all he knows?

Vilma was the best MLB we have had around here in a LONG time and 30 year old Eric says , "NOPE, we're going 3-4" "But,Eric, we gave away like 20 picks to get a 310 pound 4-3 dt to go with the others we got"

"NOPE, we're going 3-4"

"But, Eric, Vilma was our best and brightest star last year, he's a 4-3 playmaking machine!"

"NOPE, we're going 3-4"

"OK, so when are we changing persomel to fit the 3-4?"

"Lunchtime, already, gotta go"

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So the answer is:

Come in and insert a system tht negates your #4 overall who you gave up everything you had to get because he was that good, negates your BEST defensive player by far another first rounder. WHY????? Because he's a genius?? or it's all he knows?

Vilma was the best MLB we have had around here in a LONG time and 30 year old Eric says , "NOPE, we're going 3-4" "But,Eric, we gave away like 20 picks to get a 310 pound 4-3 dt to go with the others we got"

"NOPE, we're going 3-4"

"But, Eric, Vilma was our best and brightest star last year, he's a 4-3 playmaking machine!"

"NOPE, we're going 3-4"

"OK, so when are we changing persomel to fit the 3-4?"

"Lunchtime, already, gotta go"

1) DRob was never THAT good. He was on a line with 3 established linemen - one a true NT and the other two were pro-bowl DE's. James Reed would have looked above average playing the 3 on that line.

2) Vilma may be the most talented MLB we've had pound-for-pound. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough pounds for that to matter. He had a couple of good seasons in the 4-3. But be real. He hasn't been a dominating force since college, when he was up against slower & smaller competition. Vilma was the best MLB/ILB we had here since Marvin Jones. But since Shade Tree was his direct predecessor, that isn't saying much. Making a pro-bowl as an alternate, b/c another player couldn't make it, doesn't make him a better NFL player.

The way some talk here, you'd think that Vilma is the best MLB in the league & would be having a HOF career if only Mangini ran a cover-2.

I disagree with a LOT of what Mangini's done, but trying to tailor your scheme for a so-so DT and the NFL's scrawniest LB wouldn't scream out "genius" to me either.

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1) DRob was never THAT good. He was on a line with 3 established linemen - one a true NT and the other two were pro-bowl DE's. James Reed would have looked above average playing the 3 on that line.

2) Vilma may be the most talented MLB we've had pound-for-pound. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough pounds for that to matter. He had a couple of good seasons in the 4-3. But be real. He hasn't been a dominating force since college, when he was up against slower & smaller competition. Vilma was the best MLB/ILB we had here since Marvin Jones. But since Shade Tree was his direct predecessor, that isn't saying much. Making a pro-bowl as an alternate, b/c another player couldn't make it, doesn't make him a better NFL player.

The way some talk here, you'd think that Vilma is the best MLB in the league & would be having a HOF career if only Mangini ran a cover-2.

I disagree with a LOT of what Mangini's done, but trying to tailor your scheme for a so-so DT and the NFL's scrawniest LB wouldn't scream out "genius" to me either.

Spermy, your football knowledge astounds me. Of course, it doesn't hurt that we agree. :)

NFL's scrawniest LB... Classic

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What - he's not the NFL's scrawniest LB?

I'll be honest, I didn't check. But I can't imagine too many other LB'ers with his height (6'1") that are only 230 lbs soaking wet.

Honestly it's not even about pure size. He just doesn't seem to have that oomph of power that other players seem to have, or that he seemed to have in college clips I saw after we drafted him. And it sucks. Because he's clearly an intelligent kid, VERY fast, athletic, and we've already got him.

Draft day 2004 - a true NT is available when our current one is in the last year of his contract & we had no intention of re-signing. Fergie's replacement should have been an obvious choice. And we skip over him and draft a LB - one that Sally Struthers couldn't beef up for the price of TWENTY cups of coffee a day - over the very NT that helped said player run around so freely by occupying two linemen by himself. Whatever.

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What - he's not the NFL's scrawniest LB?

I'll be honest, I didn't check. But I can't imagine too many other LB'ers with his height (6'1") that are only 230 lbs soaking wet.

Honestly it's not even about pure size. He just doesn't seem to have that oomph of power that other players seem to have, or that he seemed to have in college clips I saw after we drafted him. And it sucks. Because he's clearly an intelligent kid, VERY fast, athletic, and we've already got him.

Draft day 2004 - a true NT is available when our current one is in the last year of his contract & we had no intention of re-signing. Fergie's replacement should have been an obvious choice. And we skip over him and draft a LB - one that Sally Struthers couldn't beef up for the price of TWENTY cups of coffee a day - over the very NT that helped said player run around so freely by occupying two linemen by himself. Whatever.

Thats decent enough analysis Sperm but there is a lot more to Vilma than that, yeah he is undersized but he is incredibly athletic for a MLB, he dosnt miss tackles and above all he is a student of the game.He is a very intelligent player and the kind that i love having on this team.

Vilma is a great and I mean great sideline to sideline defender, however once an OL gets on him, thats pretty much him out of the play.

In the 4-3 and especially behind Ferguson and D-Rob he was unblocked alot and was great because of that. Very similar to Ray Lewis when he had Sam Adams and Tony Syragusa in front of him.

The problem is, in a 3-4 without a NT that demands double teams he is completely useless vs the run.

I would love to see him with a Jamal Williams or Casey Hampton in front of him. he would be a lot more effective.

IMO the problem is D-Rob at NT, not Vilma.

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Thats decent enough analysis Sperm but there is a lot more to Vilma than that, yeah he is undersized but he is incredibly athletic for a MLB, he dosnt miss tackles and above all he is a student of the game.He is a very intelligent player and the kind that i love having on this team.

Vilma is a great and I mean great sideline to sideline defender, however once an OL gets on him, thats pretty much him out of the play.

In the 4-3 and especially behind Ferguson and D-Rob he was unblocked alot and was great because of that. Very similar to Ray Lewis when he had Sam Adams and Tony Syragusa in front of him.

The problem is, in a 3-4 without a NT that demands double teams he is completely useless vs the run.

I would love to see him with a Jamal Williams or Casey Hampton in front of him. he would be a lot more effective.

IMO the problem is D-Rob at NT, not Vilma.

I'm not in disagreement with you about what's in front of Vilma. But I think we'd need a few true space-eaters, not just one. In that scenario, I can see him having better success like Donnie Edwards had in SD's 3-4. But then we don't have Merriman & Phillips on the outside either.

IMO this player needs too much help all around him to be considered an "elite" player. Elite players should be making everyone else better, not finding excuses why everyone else isn't making him better.

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I'm not in disagreement with you about what's in front of Vilma. But I think we'd need a few true space-eaters, not just one. In that scenario, I can see him having better success like Donnie Edwards had in SD's 3-4. But then we don't have Merriman & Phillips on the outside either.

IMO this player needs too much help all around him to be considered an "elite" player. Elite players should be making everyone else better, not finding excuses why everyone else isn't making him better.

Yeah, totally agree.

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This is ridiculous. Vilma is too soft to play in the middle. I just went back and reviewed our first 2 games, specifically looking at Vilma and D-Rob on Defense. In 2 games, Vilma made 3 plays. He had more tackles than that, but tackles 6-8 yards downfield don't help. He never is moving forward towards the LOS at the snap. He either waits for the play to come to him, 8 yards downfield, or is pushed backwards without a big fight. Horrible. Even when he blitzes, he doesn't crash the LOS, he looks for an opening. Show some balls! Get physical! You're an ILB, fer cryin' out loud!

I know this is sacreligious around here. It's D-Robs fault. I cal BS. D-Rob actually played pretty good. There is a reason the FO traded up to get Harris. Let him play! He can't be any worse!

LOL! You're funny!

But still, even I have to concede that Vilma does not fit in this defense, because its still loaded with 4-3 players. Vilma is not a 3-4 Linebacker, and while I would hate it, I would have to accept his leaving. This defense is YEARS away from being any good at all. The Jets NEED B.J. Raji and Calais Campbell in next years draft.

But, alas, it is week 3, the draft is months away, and there are still 13 games to play, 13 more games to make a statement and prove us wrong.

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Draft day 2004 - a true NT is available when our current one is in the last year of his contract & we had no intention of re-signing. Fergie's replacement should have been an obvious choice. And we skip over him and draft a LB - one that Sally Struthers couldn't beef up for the price of TWENTY cups of coffee a day - over the very NT that helped said player run around so freely by occupying two linemen by himself. Whatever.

I was a poster at tgg.com at the time, and I remember loving the idea of Vince Wilfork at #12. I wanted to pair him next to Drob, with Ellis and Abraham, and have a "super unit Dline". I was on the phone with my buddy when the Jets made their pick of Vilma and I was like "NOOOoooooo".

Vilma made me eat my words that season, but right now I would trade him for Vince Wilfork.

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