Marvin Lewis

[Scott Dierking]

Marvin Lewis was a popular talking point on Jet boards, particularly during the Herm era.

And that was a logical discussion, because lewis was as much an opportunity hire for teh Jets as Herm was.

The popular sentiment was (is?) that the Jets would have been very well served to name Lewis, over practically anyone available at that time.

I disagreed. And I still do.

What does this guy bring a football team? Discipline? Character? Obviously not.

He has talent. But, what has he won?

A rather odd coincidence in coaching ranks is there are a lot of Defensive specialized coaches that have been given Head coaching jobs, and have not been able to establish even a modecum defensive continuity. I don't know why that is.

Not unlike Billick being unable to get an offense going in Baltimore.

Bottom line, would the average Jet fan be satisfied TODAY if Marvin Lewis was given the reins in place of Herm? Would he still be here?

Pure speculation, I understand. But I think we have more of a basis to work off of than we did 2-3 years ago.

[drago]

a dead clown's wrotting penis would have been better than herm.

But no, i would not want lewis over mangini...if that is what you were getting at.

[SoFlaJets]

hard to say Scott, but at the time he was coming off a great SB defensive team and he's the guy I wanted Woody to hire. Some of the players he's had- no, a LOT of his guys have had questionable ethics but I'm not so sure how important that would be to me if we were winning. At the time we SHOULD have hired him our team was good enough to BE in a Super Bowl and Marvin I'm willing to bet would have been a better hire than Herm

[Scott Dierking]

a dead clown's wrotting penis would have been better than herm.

But no, i would not want lewis over mangini...if that is what you were getting at.

While I think talking about penis' is great in any post, it is not what I am driving at.

Take Herm and take Mangini out of teh equation.

If the Jets had hired Lewis 6 years ago, would Jet fans be sitting here today saying that was a smart franchise move? Obviously, we can only base this on his work in Cinci since.

[drago]

While I think talking about penis' is great in any post, it is not what I am driving at.

Take Herm and take Mangini out of teh equation.

If the Jets had hired Lewis 6 years ago, would Jet fans be sitting here today saying that was a smart franchise move? Obviously, we can only base this on his work in Cinci since.

In that case...

I think i would have been happy with him for a while and to a point. You can see that he has gotten them far better than they were, but i don't expect that improvement to continue.

If i were the GM of Cinci, i would honestly look at replacing him. He has the QB, the receivers, and some talent on defense, they need a coach to put them over the hump. It doesn't seem that Lewis is that guy.

Lewis would have given us a bunch of 8 and 8 seasons.

[Bugg]

While I think talking about penis' is great in any post, it is not what I am driving at.

Take Herm and take Mangini out of teh equation.

If the Jets had hired Lewis 6 years ago, would Jet fans be sitting here today saying that was a smart franchise move? Obviously, we can only base this on his work in Cinci since.

Compared to Edwards, hiring Lewis (or John Fox)would have been a much better move, period. We ahd talent on both sides of the ball, and it was wasted. It won more often in spite of than because of the Edwards' CS.

Why base it only on his work with the Begnwads? You cannot consider his work as DC in Baltimore to that time?

[Perrone_Jets]

Sorry, but who is that guy?? I don't know some peoples in the NFL world, just that, if i put some friends angry, i don't mean too.

A little question, this guy everyone here wants him of Jets Defense Coordinatior?

[SoFlaJets]

come on Alk Perrone Jets is you right?

[Scott Dierking]

Compared to Edwards, hiring Lewis (or John Fox)would have been a much better move, period. We ahd talent on both sides of the ball, and it was wasted. It won more often in spite of than because of the Edwards' CS.

Why base it only on his work with the Begnwads? You cannot consider his work as DC in Baltimore to that time?

Bugg, this takes a little suspension of disbelief here, and we need to totally take Herm Edwards out of the equation.

If the Jets hire Lewis, Edwards is nothing more than a bug on the windshield of our convoy.

Does Cinci have talent? Have they won?

I don't relate it to his work as a DC because having success as a coordinator does not mean that success as a HC follows.

[SoFlaJets]

Bugg, this takes a little suspension of disbelief here, and we need to totally take Herm Edwards out of the equation.

If the Jets hire Lewis, Edwards is nothing more than a bug on the windshield of our convoy.

Does Cinci have talent? Have they won?

I don't relate it to his work as a DC because having success as a coordinator does not mean that success as a HC follows.

but it was all we had to judge him by at the time Scott...same as the guy we hired...he would have been a better hire than who we ended up settling for

[flgreen]

hard to say Scott, but at the time he was coming off a great SB defensive team and he's the guy I wanted Woody to hire. Some of the players he's had- no, a LOT of his guys have had questionable ethics but I'm not so sure how important that would be to me if we were winning. At the time we SHOULD have hired him our team was good enough to BE in a Super Bowl and Marvin I'm willing to bet would have been a better hire than Herm

Well said

I agree

[Scott Dierking]

but it was all we had to judge him by at the time Scott...same as the guy we hired...he would have been a better hire than who we ended up settling for

What has Marvin Lewis done as a head coach that convinces you he would have done great things with the Jets.

i am open to listen.

[SoFlaJets]

What has Marvin Lewis done as a head coach that convinces you he would have done great things with the Jets.

i am open to listen.

the one thing we must take into account is what we had at the time SD-he doesn't play for FG's and punts and "to win the game" he's not afraid to air it out-like Herman Edwards...Herm took a real strong team and played it safe at least Lewis knows how to play aggressive football-who knows really though how that would have worked out-all I know is I wish we had hired him then..but hindsight and all....

[Whaler53]

a dead clown's wrotting penis would have been better than herm.

That's a wonderful visual.....thanks for giving me nightmares........

[Jetsfan80]

Marvin Lewis really made his mark as a defensive coordinator in Baltimore. While Ozzie Newsome has always done a fantastic job bringing in talented players on the defensive side of the ball, Marvin was in control when the Ravens D was at its most dominant, and helped carry them to a Super Bowl title (with Trent Dilfer as the QB, no less).

While he's shown flashes of brilliance with the Bengals, he always seems to bring in low character, injury prone players on defense. You have to give him credit for taking over the reins of an awful Bengals franchise and making them a respectable playoff contender for the first time in a long time, but he's certainly having trouble taking them to the next level.

If he was a better evaluator of the players he brought in, perhaps he would get a better output on D. As it stands, he's about a .500 coach with a tremendous offense and lackluster defense, and its been that way since he arrived in Cincy. Currently, they are 1-2 and are about to face the Patriots. I don't like their odds to make the postseason.

Would I take him over Herm? In a heartbeat. If he had been on the market after Herm got traded, would I have supported hiring him? At the time, sure. But Eric Mangini is our head coach and has proven to be one of the brightest young coaching minds in the NFL right now. I'm happy with our current situation and wouldn't trade Mangini for anyone.

[Scott Dierking]

the one thing we must take into account is what we had at the time SD-he doesn't play for FG's and punts and "to win the game" he's not afraid to air it out-like Herman Edwards...Herm took a real strong team and played it safe at least Lewis knows how to play aggressive football-who knows really though how that would have worked out-all I know is I wish we had hired him then..but hindsight and all....

Fair enough.

But, I don't think teh Jets were this Super Bowl caliber team team that was waiting for the prince to slip on the golden shoe.

There was a reason that Bill Parcells left this team, and it had nothing to do with the man in the mirror. if BP felt that this team had greatness written all ofver it, don't think that BP and his ego would have had any problem sticking around ofr one more go around.

This team was a nightmare cap problem. It had very good talent. it had a waning qb in testaverde who misplaced his magic of '98 on teh Medowlands turf teh following year. it was tied into long term contracts with some aging vets. and it had teh bow tie of Bill Parcells handing contracts out to favorite players like they were lollipops.

To inherit the NYJ was no prize. The Jets were luck y that the Houstoin Texans were coming along, and able to unloady some hefty salary, or this franchise would have been in very deep. Bill Belichick was not that dumb.

[Alk]

Lewis = Edwards IMO. The only difference is Lewis has been handed some ridiculous talent on the offensive side of the ball.

[shawn306]

Marvin Lewis really made his mark as a defensive coordinator in Baltimore. While Ozzie Newsome has always done a fantastic job bringing in talented players on the defensive side of the ball, Marvin was in control when the Ravens D was at its most dominant, and helped carry them to a Super Bowl title (with Trent Dilfer as the QB, no less).

While he's shown flashes of brilliance with the Bengals, he always seems to bring in low character, injury prone players on defense. You have to give him credit for taking over the reins of an awful Bengals franchise and making them a respectable playoff contender for the first time in a long time, but he's certainly having trouble taking them to the next level.

If he was a better evaluator of the players he brought in, perhaps he would get a better output on D. As it stands, he's about a .500 coach with a tremendous offense and lackluster defense, and its been that way since he arrived in Cincy. Currently, they are 1-2 and are about to face the Patriots. I don't like their odds to make the postseason.

Would I take him over Herm? In a heartbeat. If he had been on the market after Herm got traded, would I have supported hiring him? At the time, sure. But Eric Mangini is our head coach and has proven to be one of the brightest young coaching minds in the NFL right now. I'm happy with our current situation and wouldn't trade Mangini for anyone.

I think there is alot of truth in this whole post.

The Bengals had become an NFL joke before Lewis arrived and just that alone would make him a better choice than Herm.

I once heard on the either the radio or the TV that the Bengals were still a very cheap franchise and would not spend the money on the scouting that is needed today. That could very well be a reason why the Bengals have ended up with so many players with "Character Issues".

Who knows what he would have done with the Jets. There was still alot of talent there on both sides of the football they were still quite the disciplined bunch from their years with Parcells.

[Jetsfan80]

Lewis = Edwards IMO. The only difference is Lewis has been handed some ridiculous talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Does Lewis throw his players under the bus?

Does Lewis constantly seek media attention?

Does Lewis have "clock management" issues?

Does Lewis take over good teams and make the mediocre?

The answer to all these questions is, emphatically, NO.

Lewis was not HANDED solid offensive talent; he brought solid offensive talent in. The only players who were there before he arrived and are still here were Chad Johnson and Willie Anderson. He drafted Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, and Eric Steinbach.

What Lewis DOES deserve criticism for is the fact that there is HUGE turnover year to year on the defensive side of the ball. It ALWAYS seems to be a carousel situation from a year-to-year basis, and the lack of continiuty comes down to an inability to project which players will succeed for them on a longterm basis, avoid off-the-field problems, and stay healthy.

[Alk]

Does Lewis throw his players under the bus?

Does Lewis constantly seek media attention?

Does Lewis have "clock management" issues?

Does Lewis take over good teams and make the mediocre?

The answer to all these questions is, emphatically, NO.

Lewis was not HANDED solid offensive talent; he brought solid offensive talent in. The only players who were there before he arrived and are still here were Chad Johnson and Willie Anderson. He drafted Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, and Eric Steinbach.

What Lewis DOES deserve criticism for is the fact that there is HUGE turnover year to year on the defensive side of the ball. It ALWAYS seems to be a carousel situation from a year-to-year basis, and the lack of continiuty comes down to an inability to project which players will succeed for them on a longterm basis, avoid off-the-field problems, and stay healthy.

Not for nothing but Herm has been in 6 playoff games compared to 1 by Lewis. And Herm hasn't coached a team with close to as much talent as the Bengals have had.

[Scott Dierking]

Lewis was not HANDED solid offensive talent; he brought solid offensive talent in. The only players who were there before he arrived and are still here were Chad Johnson and Willie Anderson. He drafted Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, and Eric Steinbach.

What??

Houshmanzadeh, Chad Johnson, Rudi Johnson were all parts of the team that Lewis took over.

he was able to parlay Corey Dillon onto picks.

The pick of Palmer was a no brainer.

He inherited some very fine talent, and a number one overall rfranchise player

[Jetsfan80]

Not for nothing but Herm has been in 6 playoff games compared to 1 by Lewis. And Herm hasn't coached a team with close to as much talent as the Bengals have had.

You're using circular logic here. You're saying Herm never had the talent Lewis had, but failing to realize that LEWIS HIMSELF brought in most of the talent. Lewis took over an AWFUL team and took them to the playoffs.

Herm, meanwhile, took over TWO successful franchises, took them to the postseason a few times, and then ran them into the ground.

[Alk]

You're using circular logic here. You're saying Herm never had the talent Lewis had, but failing to realize that LEWIS HIMSELF brought in most of the talent. Lewis took over an AWFUL team and took them to the playoffs.

You might want to refer to SD's post above on that.

[Scott Dierking]

You're using circular logic here. You're saying Herm never had the talent Lewis had, but failing to realize that LEWIS HIMSELF brought in most of the talent. Lewis took over an AWFUL team and took them to the playoffs.

Herm, meanwhile, took over TWO successful franchises, took them to the postseason a few times, and then ran them into the ground.

Corey Dillon, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Rudi Johnson and the #1 overall pick are not scraps.

[Jetsfan80]

What??

Houshmanzadeh, Chad Johnson, Rudi Johnson were all parts of the team that Lewis took over.

he was able to parlay Corey Dillon onto picks.

The pick of Palmer was a no brainer.

He inherited some very fine talent, and a number one overall rfranchise player

You're right, Rudi and TJ were on the roster beforehand. But TJ had played in just 6 games and Rudi had only started 5 before Lewis arrived. They only "came into their own" when Lewis took over.

Also, the Palmer selection was not a "no-brainer". Lewis admitted afterwards that he actually had been pressured to draft Terrence Newman in the no. 1 slot.

[Alk]

Corey Dillon, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Rudi Johnson and the #1 overall pick are not scraps.

Well they are when you compare them to an 85 year old Curtis Martin, Lamont Jordan, Santana Moss and Wayne Chrebet.

[Scott Dierking]

You're right, Rudi and TJ were on the roster beforehand. But TJ had played in just 6 games and Rudi had only started 5 before Lewis arrived. They only "came into their own" when Lewis took over.

Also, the Palmer selection was not a "no-brainer". Lewis admitted afterwards that he actually had been pressured to draft Terrence Newman in the no. 1 slot.

I understand, but let's not throw bouquets at Lewis for hand picking talent and having an eye. He stumbled upon something pretty good.

What's his excuse on defense, his forte?

[Scott Dierking]

OK, let's look at this another way-If we as Jet fans were actually Bengal fans-Are we staisfied with the job Marvin lewis has done with our franchise, in his 5th year?

[Jetsfan80]

OK, let's look at this another way-If we as Jet fans were actually Bengal fans-Are we staisfied with the job Marvin lewis has done with our franchise, in his 5th year?

No, we aren't. The Bengals off-the-field issues have been an embarrassment, and in what should be Carson Palmer's prime, they allowed 51 pts to the laughing stock of the NFL, the Cleveland Browns.

But he's still better than Herm.

[Jetsfan80]

What's his excuse on defense, his forte?

I have no answer to that other than the fact that he benefitted from having great talent evaluators in Baltimore (under Ozzie Newsome) and lacks that in Cincy. Meaning that Newsome deserves more credit than Lewis for the 2000 Super Bowl victory.

[Alk]

So I think what we can all agree on is that Herm and Lewis have different weaknesses and if you put them both together you still wouldn't have an average head coach.

[Scott Dierking]

So I think what we can all agree on is that Herm and Lewis have different weaknesses and if you put them both together you still wouldn't have an average head coach.

In my estimation, that is a pretty good assessment.

[Jetsfan80]

So I think what we can all agree on is that Herm and Lewis have different weaknesses and if you put them both together you still wouldn't have an average head coach.

No, I'd say Lewis is at least average, seeing as his record is 36-31.

[Alk]

No, I'd say Lewis is average, seeing as his record is about .500.

So is Herm's. One game under I believe.

[Scott Dierking]

No, I'd say Lewis is at least average, seeing as his record is 36-31.

And that is kinda what I was driving at in th epoint of this post-Marvin Lewis, with teh benefit of some hindsight would not have been a great no-brainer abswer for teh Jets at the time of their coaching quandry.,

Now, Fox may be a different story. That is not my nut to hatch though.