RunStuffer63 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Rebuild the front 7 Cut D-Rob, Ellis, Barton Sign Terrell Suggs and Tommy Kelly Move Victor Hobson and David Harris to ILB Trade Vilma to Washington for 1st round pick.. Draft Frank Okam Draft best available offensive lineman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoping4ASuperBowl Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 red bryant or jason shirley are other options for drafting a NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Runsuffer for GM! Can I add sign Albert Haynesworth too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris5214 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 there are no good free agents NT or NT in the draft next year, as sad as it sounds im sorry to say D-rob might be our best option until further notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 there are no good free agents NT or NT in the draft next year, as sad as it sounds im sorry to say D-rob might be our best option until further notice. And that's the real reason I think we should go to the 4-3. We really shoulda taken Ngata, but even if we had him, the 3-4 absolutely requires that your NT never gets injured, you can't really have depth like in other systems because the NT is so hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Rebuild the front 7 Cut D-Rob, Ellis, Barton Sign Terrell Suggs and Tommy Kelly Move Victor Hobson and David Harris to ILB Trade Vilma to Washington for 1st round pick.. Draft Frank Okam Draft best available offensive lineman... Why stop there? Why not trade our 7th rounder for Champ Bailey and Bowens for Ray Lewis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Why is this guy still around? Please RS63, insult someone so you can be gone, please, I beg of you. Why would they cut Shaun Ellis who can play in either a 34 or 43 as a Defensive End? Why would they cut Eric Barton when he has been the best ILB on this team so far this season? You think that Baltimore isn't going to franchise or re-sign Suggs? Why would Washington trade for Vilma when they have London Fletcher locked up for 5 years? This regime needs to switch back to a 43 or if they want to stay stubborn and stick with the 34, they need to deal Vilma (remember, he doesn't make that much, yet) and Robertson to teams that run a 43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Why is this guy still around? Please RS63, insult someone so you can be gone, please, I beg of you. Why would they cut Shaun Ellis who can play in either a 34 or 43 as a Defensive End? Why would they cut Eric Barton when he has been the best ILB on this team so far this season? You think that Baltimore isn't going to franchise or re-sign Suggs? Why would Washington trade for Vilma when they have London Fletcher locked up for 5 years? This regime needs to switch back to a 43 or if they want to stay stubborn and stick with the 34, they need to deal Vilma (remember, he doesn't make that much, yet) and Robertson to teams that run a 43. 124 - i am finally on board with going to the 4-3 but i don't think this team even has the personnel to run it anymore. you have d-rob, pouha, and mosely to play dt and that is about it. bowens, ellis, and bt can play end. harris, who the jets moved up to take would not see the field and barton who has spent the last 2 years inside would move back outside. if the jets wanted to play a fulltime 4-3 the time to do it would have been training camp not mid-season. the 4-3 should help stop the run but it wouldn't help with the pass rush, or help barret stop giving any pass less than 10 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 124 - i am finally on board with going to the 4-3 but i don't think this team even has the personnel to run it anymore. you have d-rob, pouha, and mosely to play dt and that is about it. bowens, ellis, and bt can play end. harris, who the jets moved up to take would not see the field and barton who has spent the last 2 years inside would move back outside. if the jets wanted to play a fulltime 4-3 the time to do it would have been training camp not mid-season. the 4-3 should help stop the run but it wouldn't help with the pass rush, or help barret stop giving any pass less than 10 yards. I think people forget that David Harris played in the 34 only in one year at Michigan, the 43 in the other three. He is an effective 43 OLB as well. He would see the field over Victor Hobson in 2008 and beyond as I believe Hobson's contract expires after this season. Next offseason a switch back to the 43 would require the Jets to draft or sign a free agent DT but CJ Mosley could fill a starting role so it wouldn't mean that they would have to break the bank to get one. Bryan Thomas is a solid run stuffing DE and that would allow Shaun Ellis to up his sack numbers once more. We already have 4 43 DE's on the roster, David Bowens and Kenyon Coleman being the others. David Barrett, unless playing in the Cover 2, is not going to succeed and I long for the day that we release his ass. Most importantly, we'd be taking our best player, Vilma, and putting him back in the enviorment where he can be a yearly Pro Bowl invitee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I think people forget that David Harris played in the 34 only in one year at Michigan, the 43 in the other three. He is an effective 43 OLB as well. He would see the field over Victor Hobson in 2008 and beyond as I believe Hobson's contract expires after this season. Next offseason a switch back to the 43 would require the Jets to draft or sign a free agent DT but CJ Mosley could fill a starting role so it wouldn't mean that they would have to break the bank to get one. Bryan Thomas is a solid run stuffing DE and that would allow Shaun Ellis to up his sack numbers once more. We already have 4 43 DE's on the roster, David Bowens and Kenyon Coleman being the others. David Barrett, unless playing in the Cover 2, is not going to succeed and I long for the day that we release his ass. Most importantly, we'd be taking our best player, Vilma, and putting him back in the enviorment where he can be a yearly Pro Bowl invitee. Disagree. Harris may have been an effective 4-3 OLB in college, but he is not going to light it up as an OLB up here. Nobody was looking at him as an OLB prospect and if we picked him to play there he went quite a few rounds early. CJ Mosely is going to start? That is going to solve a problem? I don't see it. Talk about JAGs. Bryan Thomas is an absolute stiff as a DE. He showed no pass rush despite all the chatter draft day, so how is that going to free up Ellis? Ellis could barely muster a rush with JAbe next to him. I'm pretty sure Kenyon Coleman is specifically a 3-4 DE and Bowens is a certain liability against the run at DE. The way I see it we have one 4-3 DE and a few 4-3 DE backups. How is any of this going to solve our fundamental problems? Just going one gap isn't going to solve all our problems, it will just mean guys are jumping through giant holes instead of slowly pushing our overmatched front 7 downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Harris may fit better as a 34 ILB but that still doesn't mean he couldn't play in the 43 effectively, we just don't know yet, we'd have to give it time. Shaun Ellis mustered up sacks at DE, with or without injury proned John Abraham on the other side of him, and Bryan Thomas at DE will help stop the run more and more and will still put up around 5 sacks per season. David Bowens would be a key 43 DE 3rd down rusher so if you wanted too on third down you could bring in Bowens for Ellis. As for Mosley, he may or may not be the answer but he still can play in a 43 scheme and you wouldn't have to break the bank for a top tier guy in the free agent market is what I'm saying, especially if they re-signed Robertson to play a in 43 defense. In a 43, even with the personal we have right now, the defense would be functioning better. But, in the end it all doesn't matter because it seems Mangini is too stubborn and is going to ride the 34 until it works or until he is out of town 5 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 How about we get through this year first boys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Harris may fit better as a 34 ILB but that still doesn't mean he couldn't play in the 43 effectively, we just don't know yet, we'd have to give it time. Shaun Ellis mustered up sacks at DE, with or without injury proned John Abraham on the other side of him, and Bryan Thomas at DE will help stop the run more and more and will still put up around 5 sacks per season. David Bowens would be a key 43 DE 3rd down rusher so if you wanted too on third down you could bring in Bowens for Ellis. As for Mosley, he may or may not be the answer but he still can play in a 43 scheme and you wouldn't have to break the bank for a top tier guy in the free agent market is what I'm saying, especially if they re-signed Robertson to play a in 43 defense. In a 43, even with the personal we have right now, the defense would be functioning better. But, in the end it all doesn't matter because it seems Mangini is too stubborn and is going to ride the 34 until it works or until he is out of town 5 years from now. The Jets have been smacked around by good offenses for a number of years. I don't see a problem with giving up yardage, as long as the point totals are down. They were last year, they aren't this year. I'm not a huge fan of the job the defensive coaches have done this year, but going to a true 4-3 solves nothing. You think it will help the run D and pass rush to start Harris and Mosley? IMO Thomas sucked at DE, but in any even moving him to a three point stance doesn't instantly stop the run. Mosley in place of Barton accomplishes nothing and if you are looking to start Harris, why not do it at ILB in the 3-4? They are obviously breaking him in slowly, do you think it will speed his learning curve to suddenly completely change gears to a 4-3? Bowens has not shown much pass rush in the 3-4 at OLB. That's with a DE 2-gapping in front of him, is he going to get more sacks rushing against a tackle? I agree the coaches schemes can make a difference, but the players have to make plays. The Jets have more talented LBs than linemen, so a switch is a mistake IMO. It's more the play calling, blitz packages, etc that they have to get right, but it's easier to just blame it on the 3-4 and think that by making Bryan Thomas put his hand on the ground suddenly Jonathan Vilma will become Dick Butkus and we'll have the 2000 Ravens D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Harris may fit better as a 34 ILB but that still doesn't mean he couldn't play in the 43 effectively, we just don't know yet, we'd have to give it time. Shaun Ellis mustered up sacks at DE, with or without injury proned John Abraham on the other side of him, and Bryan Thomas at DE will help stop the run more and more and will still put up around 5 sacks per season. David Bowens would be a key 43 DE 3rd down rusher so if you wanted too on third down you could bring in Bowens for Ellis. As for Mosley, he may or may not be the answer but he still can play in a 43 scheme and you wouldn't have to break the bank for a top tier guy in the free agent market is what I'm saying, especially if they re-signed Robertson to play a in 43 defense. In a 43, even with the personal we have right now, the defense would be functioning better. But, in the end it all doesn't matter because it seems Mangini is too stubborn and is going to ride the 34 until it works or until he is out of town 5 years from now. the problem i have with the jets is that they seem to have "committed" to the 3-4 without the right people. now they don't really have the right personnel for either scheme and the result is showing on the field. as much as i hate to say it i think they need to try to get a #1 pick for vilma and see if they can get anything at all for drob. bowens must be a total stiff because hobson has been invisible and bowens still doesn't get a whif of pt. the glaring holes in the 3-4 are ng, ilb, and olb. they can potentiall sign someone to rush the passer, harris can play the middle, and maybe getting a #1 for vilma would allow the jets to move up and grab the top ng in the draft. of course that could end up being dro part deux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Rebuild the front 7 Cut D-Rob, Ellis, Barton Sign Terrell Suggs and Tommy Kelly Move Victor Hobson and David Harris to ILB Trade Vilma to Washington for 1st round pick.. Draft Frank Okam Draft best available offensive lineman... Right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Aside from his draft intentions (too early to go there, BPA is the way 2 go for now), I think this is a good post from boomboom! Tommy Kelly is very good, and Suggs is very good (not great) as well. They would really improve the defense. Ellis stinks in the 3-4 for the most part, we need another DE and Kelly is damn good. Barton and Drob stink too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 tommy kelly at 6-6 300 is not a nose tackle. frank okam is overrated, also too tall for NT Terrell suggs will cost a mint Hobson has never played ILB in his career, even at michigan. cut everyone and sign free agents and the defense will be fixed! presto-chango! this thread is garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 tommy kelly at 6-6 300 is not a nose tackle. frank okam is overrated, also too tall for NT Terrell suggs will cost a mint Hobson has never played ILB in his career, even at michigan. cut everyone and sign free agents and the defense will be fixed! presto-chango! this thread is garbage Where did he say he wanted Tommy Kelly to play nose tackle? He'd replace Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 the problem i have with the jets is that they seem to have "committed" to the 3-4 without the right people. now they don't really have the right personnel for either scheme and the result is showing on the field. as much as i hate to say it i think they need to try to get a #1 pick for vilma and see if they can get anything at all for drob. bowens must be a total stiff because hobson has been invisible and bowens still doesn't get a whif of pt. They don't have the personnel to play the 3-4, but they do have the right personnel to play the 4-3. Whether the players they have who are experienced in the 4-3 are good enough to be better than they have been is a different issue. If they played Harris in the middle and moved Vilma outside they'd be better against the run and allow Vilma to come from the outside on blitzes and also play his pass coverage. Auditons open for the other OLB- barton, hobson, Bowens, BT, who could be more effective as an OLB in the 4-3 than as a DE. Bring Trusnik along, too, but there are three vets who are available to play OLB. They have DTs who can play in the 4-3. D-Rob, Mosley, pouha. At DE Kenyon on one side, and a rotation of/either Ellis, BT, DeVito. At this point I'd rather see them play a base 4-3 with occasional 3-4 than a base 3-4 with an occasional 4 down. Until they have a real NT and a good pass-rushing DE, playing 3 men on the line is coming out weak. But part of that may also be due to some players having a dropoff in production from last year: Dyson (injury) BT (invisible), Hobson (invisible), Ellis (mediocre) and D-Rob (what has he done this season?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 They don't have the personnel to play the 3-4, but they do have the right personnel to play the 4-3. Whether the players they have who are experienced in the 4-3 are good enough to be better than they have been is a different issue. If they played Harris in the middle and moved Vilma outside they'd be better against the run and allow Vilma to come from the outside on blitzes and also play his pass coverage. Auditons open for the other OLB- barton, hobson, Bowens, BT, who could be more effective as an OLB in the 4-3 than as a DE. Bring Trusnik along, too, but there are three vets who are available to play OLB. They have DTs who can play in the 4-3. D-Rob, Mosley, pouha. At DE Kenyon on one side, and a rotation of/either Ellis, BT, DeVito. At this point I'd rather see them play a base 4-3 with occasional 3-4 than a base 3-4 with an occasional 4 down. Until they have a real NT and a good pass-rushing DE, playing 3 men on the line is coming out weak. But part of that may also be due to some players having a dropoff in production from last year: Dyson (injury) BT (invisible), Hobson (invisible), Ellis (mediocre) and D-Rob (what has he done this season?). Before I even read the rest of your post, did you just suggest they switch back to the 4-3 and play Vilma on the outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Before I even read the rest of your post, did you just suggest they switch back to the 4-3 and play Vilma on the outside? Why not? I like Harris in the middle, and I think Vilma would be a good OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Why not? I like Harris in the middle, and I think Vilma would be a good OLB. So you want to move Vilma (a pro-bowl MLB) outside, and take a rookie who played OLB in the 4-3 and move him inside? Interesting... This is not Madden... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 So you want to move Vilma (a pro-bowl MLB) outside, and take a rookie who played OLB in the 4-3 and move him inside? Interesting... This is not Madden... Is Harris playing ILB now when he comes in? That is what I thought I saw. Have you seen the way he stops the run? Do you think Vilma would not be good as an OLB in the 4-3? Harris is the future, but I like Vilma also. I would like to see both of them play all the time, with one of the other LBs as the third wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Is Harris playing ILB now when he comes in? That is what I thought I saw. Have you seen the way he stops the run? Do you think Vilma would not be good as an OLB in the 4-3? Harris is the future, but I like Vilma also. I would like to see both of them play all the time, with one of the other LBs as the third wheel. Harris is playing ILB in the 3-4 but is an OLB in the 4-3... much like Bryan Thomas is an OLB in the 3-4 but a DE in the 4-3.... Vilma would not be as good at OLB he is much better at MLB Mangini is not changing his scheme so this is a pointless topic... in 08' it will be Thomas Harris Vilma ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Harris is playing ILB in the 3-4 but is an OLB in the 4-3... much like Bryan Thomas is an OLB in the 3-4 but a DE in the 4-3.... Vilma would not be as good at OLB he is much better at MLB Mangini is not changing his scheme so this is a pointless topic... in 08' it will be Thomas Harris Vilma ???? How do you know that Vilma would not be as good as an OLB? Have you ever seen him play OLB, even in a practice? Why would Thomas not be a good OLB in a 4-3? How do you know that? If Harris can play ILB in a 3-4, then he can play it in a 4-3. He is young. You have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 How do you know that Vilma would not be as good as an OLB? Have you ever seen him play OLB, even in a practice? That's usually a pretty indication that it's a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 How do you know that Vilma would not be as good as an OLB? Have you ever seen him play OLB, even in a practice? Why would Thomas not be a good OLB in a 4-3? How do you know that? If Harris can play ILB in a 3-4, then he can play it in a 4-3. He is young. You have no idea what you are talking about. Vilma has never played OLB... you make it sound as though it would just work... not to mention he has shown the ability to be a top player as MLB... aside from that... Bryan Thomas is too big and slow to play OLB in the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 So you want to move Vilma (a pro-bowl MLB) outside, and take a rookie who played OLB in the 4-3 and move him inside? Interesting... This is not Madden... Vilma is not a "pro-bowl MLB" like Brian Urlacher is a pro-bowl MLB. The guy made one pro-bowl as an alternate two seasons ago. Why not always refer to Ellis as a pro-bowl DE? It holds more merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Vilma has never played OLB... you make it sound as though it would just work... not to mention he has shown the ability to be a top player as MLB... aside from that... Bryan Thomas is too big and slow to play OLB in the 4-3. So you like the 3-4 as it is now comprised? The OLBs have produced zilch this season. Vilma is wasted as an ILB in the 3-4. The DL has been terrible. One sack? They gave up 400 yards the the Dolphins. It doesn't get much worse than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 So you like the 3-4 as it is now comprised? The OLBs have produced zilch this season. Vilma is wasted as an ILB in the 3-4. The DL has been terrible. One sack? They gave up 400 yards the the Dolphins. It doesn't get much worse than that. Watching the to-be 4-12 Raiders open the game with 19 consecutive runs ending in a TD was worse. Much worse. That was the most pathetic thing I think I ever saw. Only reason they stopped at 19 is b/c the field is only 100 yards from end-to-end. Otherwise that drive might still be going on as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Washington Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Watching the to-be 4-12 Raiders open the game with 19 consecutive runs ending in a TD was worse. Much worse. That was the most pathetic thing I think I ever saw. Only reason they stopped at 19 is b/c the field is only 100 yards from end-to-end. Otherwise that drive might still be going on as we speak. Being close to the bottom of the barrel is bad. I want to know what changes some people here would make to improve the defense. Not off-season moves, but in-season moves to make the team have a better chance at winning games. It can not stay this bad, or it is going too be a long, bad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunStuffer63 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Watching the to-be 4-12 Raiders open the game with 19 consecutive runs ending in a TD was worse. Much worse. That was the most pathetic thing I think I ever saw. Only reason they stopped at 19 is b/c the field is only 100 yards from end-to-end. Otherwise that drive might still be going on as we speak. Tyrone Wheatley... I remember the Jets won that game though... BTW.. How was that even a bad performance? I looked up the stats of that game.. The Raiders ran the ball 52 times, but only averaged 3.2 rushing yards per attempt.. Rick Mirer was their QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Vick Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 No offense, guys, but you'd be lucky to get a second round pick out of Jonathan Vilma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Vilma is here to stay IMO... I think Mangini needs to get Harris in the game more often... I actually saw one set that had 2 down lineman and 5 LB's... I liked how that looked against the pass... they sent 2 LB's on a blitz and the rest stayed in a short zone... This year... they NEED to get Dyson back... its hard to pressure a QB when you have David barret locking down the left side of the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCane Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 No offense, guys, but you'd be lucky to get a second round pick out of Jonathan Vilma. Agreed, that's his trade value right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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