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ECURB

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if you search the vast jetnation archives, I think you'll see that I was the first person to tell someone to suck a bag of dicks on this message board.

Its almost like your a pioneer...

oh and as far as this post goes, its not even half way through manginis second season and people want to get rid of the guy who has planned out the rebuilding of the Jets Franchise? Yeah thats a good idea...

Mangine took us to the playoffs and has been aquiring the tools needed to help us win games. As a Franchise, we are building but screw it, fire Mangini. Im sure that will work out.

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Its almost like your a pioneer...

oh and as far as this post goes, its not even half way through manginis second season and people want to get rid of the guy who has planned out the rebuilding of the Jets Franchise? Yeah thats a good idea...

Mangine took us to the playoffs and has been aquiring the tools needed to help us win games. As a Franchise, we are building but screw it, fire Mangini. Im sure that will work out.

But he's also passing on more tools that will help us win games, as well as acquiring tools that don't help us in the slightest.

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NJ, even with the mighty Clemens at the helm, this team has so much wrong with it it would be a long shot for it to make the playoffs. so all i'm saying is let's plan wisely for the future since this season is lost. we need an infusion of talent for these schemes and it's going to take some time. there's no hurry to throw clemens to the wolves needlessly.

let calm heads prevail.

I don't give us much of a shot at .500 let alone a play-off berth with who's left on the schedule. Whomever is throwing. I just don't see your reasoning for holding off on what I think is a logical move here.

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Clemens at the least will make us exciting.

Mangini likes boxing, so I think the analogy is fitting here.

CP at his best is a point fighter. He doesn't have what it takes to knock anyone out, but when he is on his game he will frustrate the opponent and control with surgical efficiency. He'll get a whole lot of 10-9 rounds. If he brushes up against a superior opponent though, he will get hammered and look terrible, and start pressing.

Clemens however has KO power. No matter how bad a match is going, if he lands a clean shot he's right back in it, or he can outright win it. He can rush right into the fray and swarm, at the very least providing excitement to all the spectators. He'll get you some 10-8 rounds to make up for losing other rounds 10-9.

Now here's the thing. You can teach skills, but you can't teach power. You can't teach a quick release. You can't teach pocket awareness. These are just tools you are born with, that can be refined and worked on but can't develop if you don't already have them. When someone with physical skills develops the technical aspects, that's why you have something special. When someone has the technical aspects but not the physical parts, they become coaches, and these are frequently the guys that develop the skills in the more physically gifted guys.

Now I'm personally biased I suppose, since I'm a swarmer with KO power myself. But still, I think it's the more exciting style, and I think it is actually the best to win with. It's like throwing a football, a guy that has the power can flick it even in not the best circumstances without fully stepping in and making a play, just like in boxing where someone with great power doesn't need to get full rotation on his punches but can hit someone at a weird angle if the opportunity arises.

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Clemens at the least will make us exciting.

Mangini likes boxing, so I think the analogy is fitting here.

CP at his best is a point fighter. He doesn't have what it takes to knock anyone out, but when he is on his game he will frustrate the opponent and control with surgical efficiency. He'll get a whole lot of 10-9 rounds. If he brushes up against a superior opponent though, he will get hammered and look terrible, and start pressing.

Clemens however has KO power. No matter how bad a match is going, if he lands a clean shot he's right back in it, or he can outright win it. He can rush right into the fray and swarm, at the very least providing excitement to all the spectators. He'll get you some 10-8 rounds to make up for losing other rounds 10-9.

Now here's the thing. You can teach skills, but you can't teach power. You can't teach a quick release. You can't teach pocket awareness. These are just tools you are born with, that can be refined and worked on but can't develop if you don't already have them. When someone with physical skills develops the technical aspects, that's why you have something special. When someone has the technical aspects but not the physical parts, they become coaches, and these are frequently the guys that develop the skills in the more physically gifted guys.

Now I'm personally biased I suppose, since I'm a swarmer with KO power myself. But still, I think it's the more exciting style, and I think it is actually the best to win with. It's like throwing a football, a guy that has the power can flick it even in not the best circumstances without fully stepping in and making a play, just like in boxing where someone with great power doesn't need to get full rotation on his punches but can hit someone at a weird angle if the opportunity arises.

This is a great analogy.

potw nom

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This is easier...this way they don't have to call out Chad and admit they were wrong all along.

This is why it's Mangini's fault Chad is a knob gobbler with the weakest arm in the NFL.

LOL...who wrote the very same type front page article last week?

Chad sucked yesterday and all agree yet we have like 50 12 year old like threads about it. P.S. minus Coles and Leon the rest of the team sucked as well.

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NJ, even with the mighty Clemens at the helm, this team has so much wrong with it it would be a long shot for it to make the playoffs. so all i'm saying is let's plan wisely for the future since this season is lost. we need an infusion of talent for these schemes and it's going to take some time. there's no hurry to throw clemens to the wolves needlessly.

let calm heads prevail.

That thinking has you where you are today.

With Clemens as your starter, this team is no worse then they are today. What Clemens can do is purely speculation on anyones part, but it is safe to say, the team could be better. It cannot get much worse.

With nothing to play for, get him game experience now. Is it the best situation? No. Then you would enter 2008 with a QB with 400+ passes under his belt versus one with 48.

This is his second season and the Jets need to know if he can play. Maybe they see he is not the future in the remaining 11 games and can move in another direction. If they do not and he looks terrible next year, then you have to wait until 2009 before possibly having an answer at QB.

It is like that old saying, "Bad News does not get better with time."

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Mangini has the rest of this year to show that he knows what he is doing, otherwise get rid of him... dont let him hang around like Herm... cut loose before its too late...

Anyone agree with me?

Cowher

Parcels

There has to be someone out there with experience that the JETS can get if Mangini keeps this up...

Im still behind him for now... but after this franchise let Herm **** things up he is on a very short leash from myself...

not at all

give him 3 years.

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When the jets were on their way to a playoff season after a terrible year and CP was having one of his best seasons? Barton, it's all in the timing bubba.

CP had one of his best seasons......when? Last year?

Are you kidding me?? Of the 3 seasons (02', 04', 06') where he's actually started more than 10 games (amazing huh), 2006 was his worst season.

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Guys, in the last 2 games, Chad Pennington has had 4 fourth quarter interceptions. FOUR. That is unacceptable. Even ecurb has to admit this. And while the Giants defense is above average, even top 10, the Bills D was NOT.

Does this mean Mangini is excused? Of course not, the buck stops with the Head Coach. Which means that, if he uses Pennington again NEXT week against the Eagles, he better have a GREAT explanation for doing so. If I performed on the job like Pennington has (compared to other NFL QB's), I'd deserve to be fired. Pennington must ride the bench this week and give Clemens a chance to show if he can do it any better.

I think a lot of people have been holding out hope that the 2002 Pennington would show up. After all, he was healthy last season, and we went to the playoffs again.

The problem is, defenses have learned a lot about Pennington since 2002. They've learned the following:

1) They can load up to stop the run and not be punished by the long ball.

2) Stay at home on screen passes and short dump offs. Keep the YAC to a minimum, and you will have success.

3) Blitz, blitz, blitz. When Pennington does not have time to look for his check down receiver, one of 2 things will happen: a) sack, B) potentially interceptable throw.

4) Pennington can do neither of the following: a) have ANY kind of success against an elite defense, B) lead a 4th quarter comeback. If you have a lead of 8 points or more late in the 3rd quarter, you can be supremely confident that you will win.

5) When it rains, it pours. Pennington has his worst games when his defense doesn't pick him up. Things tend to go from bad to worse; when his rhythym is upset, he'll go from a bad game to a horrible one, and throw pick after pick. See: All games against New England in the last 4 years except for @ NE last year.

Pennington's margin for error is VERY slim. He can't have receivers drop passes, he can't win when the defense struggles, and he can't run a 2-minute drill offense to save his life, so he had BETTER have a lead late in the game if the Jets are going to win on a given Sunday.

That's why games like the last 2 weeks occur. The elite QB's in this league simply do not allow these things to happen. Brady and Manning find ways to win even when their defense is playing poorly or the team is behind late in the game. Pennington cannot do this, which makes him an average QB. Not good, not terrible, but average.

Clemens has not proven to be better yet. But we have to give him his chance in this season, one where the playoffs are pretty much out of the question. He showed flashes of brilliance against the Ravens in a situation where the team WAS trailing in the 4th quarter, something Pennington has NEVER done.

It's time for a change, Coach.

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Guys, in the last 2 games, Chad Pennington has had 4 fourth quarter interceptions. FOUR. That is unacceptable. Even ecurb has to admit this. And while the Giants defense is above average, even top 10, the Bills D was NOT.

Does this mean Mangini is excused? Of course not, the buck stops with the Head Coach. Which means that, if he uses Pennington again NEXT week against the Eagles, he better have a GREAT explanation for doing so. If I performed on the job like Pennington has (compared to other NFL QB's), I'd deserve to be fired. Pennington must ride the bench this week and give Clemens a chance to show if he can do it any better.

I think a lot of people have been holding out hope that the 2002 Pennington would show up. After all, he was healthy last season, and we went to the playoffs again.

The problem is, defenses have learned a lot about Pennington since 2002. They've learned the following:

1) They can load up to stop the run and not be punished by the long ball.

2) Stay at home on screen passes and short dump offs. Keep the YAC to a minimum, and you will have success.

3) Blitz, blitz, blitz. When Pennington does not have time to look for his check down receiver, one of 2 things will happen: a) sack, B) potentially interceptable throw.

4) Pennington can do neither of the following: a) have ANY kind of success against an elite defense, B) lead a 4th quarter comeback. If you have a lead of 8 points or more late in the 3rd quarter, you can be supremely confident that you will win.

5) When it rains, it pours. Pennington has his worst games when his defense doesn't pick him up. Things tend to go from bad to worse; when his rhythym is upset, he'll go from a bad game to a horrible one, and throw pick after pick. See: All games against New England in the last 4 years except for @ NE last year.

Pennington's margin for error is VERY slim. He can't have receivers drop passes, he can't win when the defense struggles, and he can't run a 2-minute drill offense to save his life, so he had BETTER have a lead late in the game if the Jets are going to win on a given Sunday.

That's why games like the last 2 weeks occur. The elite QB's in this league simply do not allow these things to happen. Brady and Manning find ways to win even when their defense is playing poorly or the team is behind late in the game. Pennington cannot do this, which makes him an average QB. Not good, not terrible, but average.

Clemens has not proven to be better yet. But we have to give him his chance in this season, one where the playoffs are pretty much out of the question. He showed flashes of brilliance against the Ravens in a situation where the team WAS trailing in the 4th quarter, something Pennington has NEVER done.

It's time for a change, Coach.

POTW NOM

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Guys, in the last 2 games, Chad Pennington has had 4 fourth quarter interceptions. FOUR. That is unacceptable. Even ecurb has to admit this. And while the Giants defense is above average, even top 10, the Bills D was NOT.

Does this mean Mangini is excused? Of course not, the buck stops with the Head Coach. Which means that, if he uses Pennington again NEXT week against the Eagles, he better have a GREAT explanation for doing so. If I performed on the job like Pennington has (compared to other NFL QB's), I'd deserve to be fired. Pennington must ride the bench this week and give Clemens a chance to show if he can do it any better.

I think a lot of people have been holding out hope that the 2002 Pennington would show up. After all, he was healthy last season, and we went to the playoffs again.

The problem is, defenses have learned a lot about Pennington since 2002. They've learned the following:

1) They can load up to stop the run and not be punished by the long ball.

2) Stay at home on screen passes and short dump offs. Keep the YAC to a minimum, and you will have success.

3) Blitz, blitz, blitz. When Pennington does not have time to look for his check down receiver, one of 2 things will happen: a) sack, B) potentially interceptable throw.

4) Pennington can do neither of the following: a) have ANY kind of success against an elite defense, B) lead a 4th quarter comeback. If you have a lead of 8 points or more late in the 3rd quarter, you can be supremely confident that you will win.

5) When it rains, it pours. Pennington has his worst games when his defense doesn't pick him up. Things tend to go from bad to worse; when his rhythym is upset, he'll go from a bad game to a horrible one, and throw pick after pick. See: All games against New England in the last 4 years except for @ NE last year.

Pennington's margin for error is VERY slim. He can't have receivers drop passes, he can't win when the defense struggles, and he can't run a 2-minute drill offense to save his life, so he had BETTER have a lead late in the game if the Jets are going to win on a given Sunday.

That's why games like the last 2 weeks occur. The elite QB's in this league simply do not allow these things to happen. Brady and Manning find ways to win even when their defense is playing poorly or the team is behind late in the game. Pennington cannot do this, which makes him an average QB. Not good, not terrible, but average.

Clemens has not proven to be better yet. But we have to give him his chance in this season, one where the playoffs are pretty much out of the question. He showed flashes of brilliance against the Ravens in a situation where the team WAS trailing in the 4th quarter, something Pennington has NEVER done.

It's time for a change, Coach.

True. It's not even "run blitzes" they're facing. teams just know there's no need to have anyone deep, keep everything in front of you, and Pennington cannot hurt you. It's schizophrenic to think the OL is fine in pass protection, but cannot run block. The reality is there are too many defensive players close to the LOS to block, and they close off running lanes. Jones may not be Jim Brown, but when there's 8 or 9 guys in between the tackles to navigate around and through, there's no place to go.

Pennington has no margin for error. When you cannot throw a long ball, you have to run more plays to keep any drive going. The more plays you run, the greater chance you have that either something will go wrong, or a defender will maka a play. If you can get the length of the field in 7 or 8 plays or fewer, less of a chance for things to go bad. When every drive is a 13-15 play grind, the odds of something bad happening go up.

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True. It's not even "run blitzes" they're facing. teams just know there's no need to have anyone deep, keep everything in front of you, and Pennington cannot hurt you. It's schizophrenic to think the OL is fine in pass protection, but cannot run block. The reality is there are too many defensive players close to the LOS to block, and they close off running lanes. Jones may not be Jim Brown, but when there's 8 or 9 guys in between the tackles to navigate around and through, there's no place to go.

Pennington has no margin for error. When you cannot throw a long ball, you have to run more plays to keep any drive going. The more plays you run, the greater chance you have that either something will go wrong, or a defender will maka a play. If you can get the length of the field in 7 or 8 plays or fewer, less of a chance for things to go bad. When every drive is a 13-15 play grind, the odds of something bad happening go up.

Run blocking and pass blocking are not the same. There are plenty of guys that can do one and not the other. The reality is these guys can't run block. I pray that you're right and Clemens fixes the running game, but I'm pretty sure it's a monumental oversimplification of the problem.

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has there been any confirmation that the CS is at least thinking about a QB change? They are usually pretty tight lipped, but i'd really like to know if KC is getting close to playing this week.

They are thinking about it.

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That thinking has you where you are today.

With Clemens as your starter, this team is no worse then they are today. What Clemens can do is purely speculation on anyones part, but it is safe to say, the team could be better. It cannot get much worse.

With nothing to play for, get him game experience now. Is it the best situation? No. Then you would enter 2008 with a QB with 400+ passes under his belt versus one with 48.

This is his second season and the Jets need to know if he can play. Maybe they see he is not the future in the remaining 11 games and can move in another direction. If they do not and he looks terrible next year, then you have to wait until 2009 before possibly having an answer at QB.

It is like that old saying, "Bad News does not get better with time."

if its about deciding if clemens is our starter for 2008 a few more weeks won't affect that.

btw, as a pats fan why are you so anxious to see pennington sit out?

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