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Is this Guy For Real? Herm a "Top Ten Coach"?


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http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3697636

AFC dominance starts and ends with coaching

John Czarnecki

Excerpt:

If we had to name the top ten coaches in the NFL, at least eight would come from the AFC. Belichick is No. 1 and most would put Edwards in a top ten, then there are these other AFC coaches to consider: Mike Shanahan in Denver, Dick Vermeil in Kansas City, Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego, Jeff Fisher in Tennessee, Tony Dungy in Indianapolis, Bill Cowher in Pittsburgh and Brian Billick in Baltimore.

:shock:

Let me repeat:

:shock:

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I guess this points to the abundance of piss poor coaches in the NFL. Brian Billick sucks. Dungy hasn't won anything. Schottenheimer chokes everything. Shanahan hasn't won anything without the horse-thoothed jackass. I'll give Belly his due... but he's going up against high school JV coaches, at best. But he's the only NFL level coach in the game, right now.

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I guess this points to the abundance of piss poor coaches in the NFL. Brian Billick sucks. Dungy hasn't won anything. Schottenheimer chokes everything. Shanahan hasn't won anything without the horse-thoothed jackass. I'll give Belly his due... but he's going up against high school JV coaches, at best. But he's the only NFL level coach in the game, right now.

Homey, Herm wouldn't be a top-ten coach in the Big Ten. :lol::lol:

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Maybe you could send them a pair of your "Herm Hater" boxer shorts Tom, you know the ones that keep your nuts crammed half way up your a$$, so they can see things your way.

:)

BZ

:lol: TomShane just got OWNED!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Not to ruin your funny (as rare as you have one), but there's 11 teams in the Big 10

And you say I don't give Herm any credit! :lol:

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I'd like to know why you wouldn't even consider the guy who has taken us to the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons to the playoffs, not a Top 10 coach, he's a master motivator and a very good coach. I couldn't find 10 coaches better then him.

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Herm can never be considered an elite coach IMO- he has shown that he does not possess the intracies and nuts and bolts a premier coach would have. Do you think Vince Lombardi would have a problem in clock management or not have superior knowledge of game calling.

Being a likeable guy I want to see him succeed but he has his weaknesses that can never put him in a elite class of coaches ever. Maybe he can prove me wrong-hopefully

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"master motivator"

What the eff does that mean? Please explain. Espeically on those numerous occasions late in games or in big games when the team looks like it met in the parking lot that morning.

The NFL is a professional league. All that "intangible" stuff goes only so far. If a coach can't master the nuts&bolts, he's lousy. And damn if anyone can tell me whatr Edwards does at 5 AM after he hops the Hofstra fence. The next lousy team with "great chemistry" will be a first, as will the next championship squad who hate each other.

It's a little off topic, but if you like hockey, watch "Miracle". Herb Brooks' one tactic was to have his entire Olympic team HATE him-and it worked. On top of the fact that he was a strategic genius who was a little before his time. Herb Brooks never really succeeded as a pro coach, mostly due the the Islanders blocking him on talent when he had a good Rangers team in the 1980s.

Again, somebody, tell me what this "motivator" gibberish is rather than just saying it over and over. He's a nice man? What? It's like a mantra that gives you comfort.

Speaking of comfort, at least Edwards has almost zero input other than his insipid pre and post game speeches. And based on the one he gave after he shat the bed vs. the Ravens as seen on the NFL network, he won't make much money as a motivational speaker. Hye guys, I juist effed up massively-we'll get'em next week!Kinda like your drunk uncle at a family wake, but on the payroll fulltime.

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I'd like to know why you wouldn't even consider the guy who has taken us to the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons to the playoffs, not a Top 10 coach, he's a master motivator and a very good coach. I couldn't find 10 coaches better then him.

Just watch the tape from the Ravens game. If Herm wasn't black, he would have been fired on the spot just for that.

What kind of head coach CANNOT CALL A ******* PLAY???

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"master motivator"

What the eff does that mean? Please explain. Espeically on those numerous occasions late in games or in big games when the team looks like it met in the parking lot that morning.

The NFL is a professional league. All that "intangible" stuff goes only so far. If a coach can't master the nuts&bolts, he's lousy. And damn if anyone can tell me whatr Edwards does at 5 AM after he hops the Hofstra fence. The next lousy team with "great chemistry" will be a first, as will the next championship squad who hate each other.

It's a little off topic, but if you like hockey, watch "Miracle". Herb Brooks' one tactic was to have his entire Olympic team HATE him-and it worked. On top of the fact that he was a strategic genius who was a little before his time. Herb Brooks never really succeeded as a pro coach, mostly due the the Islanders blocking him on talent when he had a good Rangers team in the 1980s.

Again, somebody, tell me what this "motivator" gibberish is rather than just saying it over and over. He's a nice man? What? It's like a mantra that gives you comfort.

Speaking of comfort, at least Edwards has almost zero input other than his insipid pre and post game speeches. And based on the one he gave after he shat the bed vs. the Ravens as seen on the NFL network, he won't make much money as a motivational speaker. Hye guys, I juist effed up massively-we'll get'em next week!Kinda like your drunk uncle at a family wake, but on the payroll fulltime.

Super Classic Post, anyone?

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Saying Hermy is a top 10 coach is as dumb as saying PennyBoy is a top 10 QB.

The team has finished in the NFL top ten in two out of the last three years and the year they missed was the 2003 debacle where we were out of it by the time Penny got in there.

I guess our HC and QB are non-factors in our success.

Or maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

It's pretty tough to rank HC's, especially in the mid-range. You know the great ones and the terrible ones. People 'round here like to paint Herm as the latter, but that is just silly talk. His accomplishments are tangible. He's clearly a good head coach.

Just because he's less than BB does not mean he's not good. He is good.

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"master motivator"

Speaking of comfort, at least Edwards has almost zero input other than his insipid pre and post game speeches.

How do you know this?

You don't, but as it gets repeated enough, it becomes fact and as it becomes fact, it becomes all the more baffling that we keep winning more games than we lose.

Herm Gump.

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everyone wants to compare herm with BB and Parcells, 2 HOF coaches. just b/c his style is different does not make him a bad coach, he does things his way. everyone has their own style and one is not necessarily better than another, the results speak for themselves.

Herm has been a HC for exactly 4 years, with no college or DC/OC experience. His record in his first 4 years is BETTER than BB who as of now is the gold standard. if herm continues to improve and the jets become an elite team year in and year out then Herm's record will speak for itself and the style will be irrelavant. if the jets tank this year then herm will be gone and it won't matter anyways.

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No, his clock management, game planning, game management and decision making makes him a bad coach.

Really?

Game management, clock management and decision making sounds like a lot of stuff. Unfortunately - it's all one thing.

His game planning is poor? That's funny, because most Herm bashers try to claim that he has nothing to do with game planning.

After listening to the Herm bashing crew, one might be surprised to find that other head coaches also have two coordinators. 8)

Belly had two of the best and so did Parcells when he was winning bowls. Good coaches surround themselves with good coaches.

Herm has chosen The Cane, Donnie Hendu and Dinger. Seems pretty solid to me.

Still, I could swear that some Herm critics expect him to surround himself with unqualified coaches just to prove that he can do it all himself.

Interesting.

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Meddle, this is what we know: Herm can't manage the clock. He has repeatedly proven this. Herm doesn't know offense. If he could, he wouldn't have been tied at the hip to Hackett. If Herm, who expressed that thing had to change on offense with Hackett, know offense, he would have changed it himself, no? in fact, the classic NFL Network footage of the end of the Ravens game showed what might have been the scariest thing of all--not only does Herman not know offense, he very well may not be able to call a single play. Not one. If Herm could call a play, I'm thinking he would have sent it in to Quincy. But he didn't. Could Herm call a play if he had to? In that footage, he clearly could not. Scary.

As for defense, here is what we know: he came here as a touted defensive backs coach, having had success with John Lynch and Ronde Barber in Tampa Bay. Since Herm got here our D-backs have consistently been the weak point of the team. Not only that, he jammed the cover-two down Ted Cottrell's throast despite not having the personnel to do it. He had Mo Lewis playing the Derrick Brooks role and he had Sean Ellis playing the Warren Sapp role. I think we both know how that worked out. If you want to blame Cottrell, that's fine, but then don't you dare give Herm an ounce of credit for Donnie Henderson's success.

See how it works?

Herm lovers/supporters like to point to Hackett and Cottrell as being "the problem" that have kept the Jets from getting to the bowl, but they never want to blame the boss. You people say "Herm got to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years...blah blah blah," but when you have to explain why the O sucks or the d sucks, it's the coordinators fault. At some point, bro, Herm has to take the hit. This is his last year to prove himself. There are no more excuses. He has the D coordinator and he has the O coordinator. There is no one left to throw under the bus. It doesn't matter if Chad misses two weeks or the entire season. 2005 is Herm's Alamo. Put up or shut up for Hermie-boy.

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Not so sure of that, Tommy boy. How does one fire a coach that has gotten you to the playoff's as many times as Herm has? Regardless of the fact that, in my belief (and yours) that it has been despite of Herm that you have achieved the playoff's. I suspect that in the event that the Jets do not make the playoff's, Herm will be fired. Otherwise, I don't think so. Also, if Chad misses a significant part of the season, Herm stays. Another convenient excuse.

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Meddle, this is what we know: Herm can't manage the clock. He has repeatedly proven this. Herm doesn't know offense. If he could, he wouldn't have been tied at the hip to Hackett. If Herm, who expressed that thing had to change on offense with Hackett, know offense, he would have changed it himself, no? in fact, the classic NFL Network footage of the end of the Ravens game showed what might have been the scariest thing of all--not only does Herman not know offense, he very well may not be able to call a single play. Not one. If Herm could call a play, I'm thinking he would have sent it in to Quincy. But he didn't. Could Herm call a play if he had to? In that footage, he clearly could not. Scary.

As for defense, here is what we know: he came here as a touted defensive backs coach, having had success with John Lynch and Ronde Barber in Tampa Bay. Since Herm got here our D-backs have consistently been the weak point of the team. Not only that, he jammed the cover-two down Ted Cottrell's throast despite not having the personnel to do it. He had Mo Lewis playing the Derrick Brooks role and he had Sean Ellis playing the Warren Sapp role. I think we both know how that worked out. If you want to blame Cottrell, that's fine, but then don't you dare give Herm an ounce of credit for Donnie Henderson's success.

See how it works?

Herm lovers/supporters like to point to Hackett and Cottrell as being "the problem" that have kept the Jets from getting to the bowl, but they never want to blame the boss. You people say "Herm got to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years...blah blah blah," but when you have to explain why the O sucks or the d sucks, it's the coordinators fault. At some point, bro, Herm has to take the hit. This is his last year to prove himself. There are no more excuses. He has the D coordinator and he has the O coordinator. There is no one left to throw under the bus. It doesn't matter if Chad misses two weeks or the entire season. 2005 is Herm's Alamo. Put up or shut up for Hermie-boy.

Actually, I agree with the vast majority of this. I think Herm deserves credit for letting Henderson run his own defense (probably at the urging of Terry bradway or someone else that can fire him). Honestly, he has nothing to do this year. Not one thing. And if the Jets eff that up, he's a goner.

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Meddle, this is what we know: Herm can't manage the clock. He has repeatedly proven this. Herm doesn't know offense. If he could, he wouldn't have been tied at the hip to Hackett. If Herm, who expressed that thing had to change on offense with Hackett, know offense, he would have changed it himself, no? in fact, the classic NFL Network footage of the end of the Ravens game showed what might have been the scariest thing of all--not only does Herman not know offense, he very well may not be able to call a single play. Not one. If Herm could call a play, I'm thinking he would have sent it in to Quincy. But he didn't. Could Herm call a play if he had to? In that footage, he clearly could not. Scary.

As for defense, here is what we know: he came here as a touted defensive backs coach, having had success with John Lynch and Ronde Barber in Tampa Bay. Since Herm got here our D-backs have consistently been the weak point of the team. Not only that, he jammed the cover-two down Ted Cottrell's throast despite not having the personnel to do it. He had Mo Lewis playing the Derrick Brooks role and he had Sean Ellis playing the Warren Sapp role. I think we both know how that worked out. If you want to blame Cottrell, that's fine, but then don't you dare give Herm an ounce of credit for Donnie Henderson's success.

See how it works?

Herm lovers/supporters like to point to Hackett and Cottrell as being "the problem" that have kept the Jets from getting to the bowl, but they never want to blame the boss. You people say "Herm got to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years...blah blah blah," but when you have to explain why the O sucks or the d sucks, it's the coordinators fault. At some point, bro, Herm has to take the hit. This is his last year to prove himself. There are no more excuses. He has the D coordinator and he has the O coordinator. There is no one left to throw under the bus. It doesn't matter if Chad misses two weeks or the entire season. 2005 is Herm's Alamo. Put up or shut up for Hermie-boy.

This is his last year to prove himself? He's already proven himself. This is not meant to imply that he

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Really?

Game management, clock management and decision making sounds like a lot of stuff. Unfortunately - it's all one thing.

His game planning is poor? That's funny, because most Herm bashers try to claim that he has nothing to do with game planning.

After listening to the Herm bashing crew, one might be surprised to find that other head coaches also have two coordinators. 8)

Belly had two of the best and so did Parcells when he was winning bowls. Good coaches surround themselves with good coaches.

Herm has chosen The Cane, Donnie Hendu and Dinger. Seems pretty solid to me.

Still, I could swear that some Herm critics expect him to surround himself with unqualified coaches just to prove that he can do it all himself.

Interesting.

Add personnel management to that list. You know....the style that gets you into fights with assistants.

NOW HEAR THIS HERM LOVERS:]

JUST MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IS NOT A GOD DAMNED SUCCESS!!

Are you people really that starved for feeling good about this team that you measure backing into the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years a farging success? Did you celebrate when you came in 3rd place for your age group during the middle school potato sack sprint?

This is the NFL and the SOLE mission of an NFL team, regardless of how realistic it may be for said team, is to win the Super Bowl. Herm has done NOTHING with this team that can be guaged as a success. Just because the Jets were the ASSCLOWNS of the NFL for 20+ years until the late 90s doesn't make just making the playoffs a success. Herm backed into a 3 way tie for a division title. And he backed into the playoffs last year. Whoo hooo - we beat the colts and the Chargers - bad news, we lost the next week, one of the games to an embarrasing performance by out $64 million QB and another to complete PUSSY leadership by HERMAN EDWARDS.

Shove the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years crap up your respective rears Herm lovers, this man has DONE NOTHING for that team. No Super Bowl. No AFC Title...hell No AFC Title game appearance. His best job, being a kick away from the game, a kick that if Edwards would have had some balls in the first place wouldn't have been needed.

Go celebrate finishing 3rd in the AFC somewhere else.

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Again, I simply and politely ask, if the "Master Motivator" stuff is some great success, what is it? And again, when ever you ask what this MM crap is the silence is deafening. It's so ephermal that it's nothing. Unless the Hermaphrodites will FINALLY explain. His players supposedly love him, and, as in the Brooks example(and Lomabardi, Parcells, Bowman, etc.), BFD! His own best friend(John Lynch) wouldn't sign here. Granted, there's more than one way to do things, but better to be feared and respected than liked and loved.

And again, but for miracle kicks bailing out a collapse in 2001 and 3rd tiebreakers and lucking into Pennington after treating him like a disease for a season and half in 2002, this success is not the resounding success you pretend. Was Bruce Coslet's 8-8 wildcard team some great success?

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Add personnel management to that list. You know....the style that gets you into fights with assistants.

NOW HEAR THIS HERM LOVERS:]

JUST MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IS NOT A GOD DAMNED SUCCESS!!

Are you people really that starved for feeling good about this team that you measure backing into the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years a farging success? Did you celebrate when you came in 3rd place for your age group during the middle school potato sack sprint?

This is the NFL and the SOLE mission of an NFL team, regardless of how realistic it may be for said team, is to win the Super Bowl. Herm has done NOTHING with this team that can be guaged as a success. Just because the Jets were the ASSCLOWNS of the NFL for 20+ years until the late 90s doesn't make just making the playoffs a success. Herm backed into a 3 way tie for a division title. And he backed into the playoffs last year. Whoo hooo - we beat the colts and the Chargers - bad news, we lost the next week, one of the games to an embarrasing performance by out $64 million QB and another to complete pu$$y leadership by HERMAN EDWARDS.

Shove the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years crap up your respective rears Herm lovers, this man has DONE NOTHING for that team. No Super Bowl. No AFC Title...hell No AFC Title game appearance. His best job, being a kick away from the game, a kick that if Edwards would have had some balls in the first place wouldn't have been needed.

Go celebrate finishing 3rd in the AFC somewhere else.

I will celebrate what I want where I want. You can't ticket me in NY, ociffer... [-X

This is the typical response. You don't like Herm so you piss on the valid accomplishments of a good coach and our good players. That's your call, but you'll have to allow me to see it my way.

So to you, there is a champion and 31 losers. I refuse to view it that way. I would never evaluate ANY team that way, why should I view the Jets that way?

I guess you think that Parcells never accomplished anything during his Jets tenure. I guess that all us Jets fans have completely wasted our time since SB3.

I see it differently.

I am starved for a championship. That does not mean that I choose to view EVERYTHING via that skewed prism.

You do what you wish.

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Quick -

Since Herm was made HC of the NYJ...name ONE other team in the NFL (with enough talent to make it) that, when things go wrong, fans/commentators/journalists curse &/or blame the coordinator(s) & not the head coach.

In Miami, it was Wanstadt's fault.

In Seattle, it's Holmgren's fault.

In St. Louis, it's Martz's fault.

In Denver, Shanahan is taking some heat.

With the NYJ, it was always Cotrell's fault or Hackett's fault. And if not them, then it was Bradway's fault. Teflon Herm was always blameless.

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