Jump to content

Maginini: Chad's The Starter -- MERGED


PhinHater
 Share

Recommended Posts

I WILL NOT ATTEND ANOTHER NY JETS FOOTBALL GAME OR SPEND ANOTHER $1 ON THEM UNTIL CHAD PENNINGTON LOSES HIS JOB.

ALSO....I'M DONE SUPPORTING ERIC MANGINI. WHAT HAPPEND TO HOLDING PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR PLAY? YOU WANT TO RIDE THESE PLAYERS INTO THE GROUND BUT YOU CAN'T EVEN COACH YOUR WAY OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a good chance I wont' watch the game this Sunday. Un****inbelievable.

**** it....I'm going to the sports bar on Sunday and I watching the rest of the football games and ignoring the Jets game.

We all know the outcome and who really wants to watch remedial football?

It's a complete joke....I'm sickened by this.

Just wait guys.....ticket prices will go up again this yr and Woody will try to suck more money out of his fanbase after this garbage season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is smart by Mangini, I don't care what anyone says.

Keep the young gun on the bench to protect him from nightmare causing pass defenses like Cincinatti and Buffalo, and break him in easy against cupcakes like Pittsburgh, Dallas, and New England. Absolute genius.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I WILL NOT ATTEND ANOTHER NY JETS FOOTBALL GAME OR SPEND ANOTHER $1 ON THEM UNTIL CHAD PENNINGTON LOSES HIS JOB.

ALSO....I'M DONE SUPPORTING ERIC MANGINI. WHAT HAPPEND TO HOLDING PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR PLAY? YOU WANT TO RIDE THESE PLAYERS INTO THE GROUND BUT YOU CAN'T EVEN COACH YOUR WAY OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG?

Amen...

I believe EM is accountable for this terrible product and coaching performance. If he thinks he can win with a noodle then maybe we

all gave him way too much credit last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is smart by Mangini, I don't care what anyone says.

Keep the young gun on the bench to protect him from nightmare causing pass defenses like Cincinatti and Buffalo, and break him in easy against cupcakes like Pittsburgh, Dallas, and New England. Absolute genius.

And what happens if KC stinks next season? This season is done. Even if they win a few games, they are still a bad team. Starting KC at least gives him experience. I mean it seems Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning didn't get destroyed by 1-15 and 3-13 seasons.

If they don't start KC this season, they are hoping KC can play like a vet next season. He'd still be a rookie starter at that point. ANd if he isn't that good, can we say Miami Dolphins who never have a QB,.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what happens if KC stinks next season? This season is done. Even if they win a few games, they are still a bad team. Starting KC at least gives him experience. I mean it seems Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning didn't get destroyed by 1-15 and 3-13 seasons.

If they don't start KC this season, they are hoping KC can play like a vet next season. He'd still be a rookie starter at that point. ANd if he isn't that good, can we say Miami Dolphins who never have a QB,.

Pretty sure the Troll was being sarcastic. I'm the one that said it's not a surprise. I'm still mildly surprised that Mangini did this after dragging it out. Maybe Clemens had a bad week of practice, maybe Mangini wants to give KC another week or more of 1st team reps, maybe he's an idiot, I don't know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what happens if KC stinks next season? This season is done. Even if they win a few games, they are still a bad team. Starting KC at least gives him experience. I mean it seems Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning didn't get destroyed by 1-15 and 3-13 seasons.

If they don't start KC this season, they are hoping KC can play like a vet next season. He'd still be a rookie starter at that point. ANd if he isn't that good, can we say Miami Dolphins who never have a QB,.

They have to have as big a sample as possible to find out what they have in Clemens. The season is done;they aren't beating Dallas nor the pats on the road, so the playoffs are a total pipe dream even if you rally.

I still think Mangini is the guy long-term. But watching Pennington get picked off throwing an out pattern in a pathetic 2-minute 'drill" in the waning minutes again is pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just heard the presser on the radio.

Mangini said that after watching the film, that 3rd down scramble by Chad was ''classic Chad''? :confused0058:

He should have been sacked on that play, the Bengals guy whiffed. THAT'S the reason why he should start? :confused:

Here we go again. So it was the Bengal player messing up and not a good play by Chad? Doesn't Chad get credit for any play he makes with some of you? Next, you'll be telling us that bomb to Coles actually was carried by a bird the final 10 yards and dropped towards Coles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here we go again. So it was the Bengal player messing up and not a good play by Chad? Doesn't Chad get credit for any play he makes with some of you? Next, you'll be telling us that bomb to Coles actually was carried by a bird the final 10 yards and dropped towards Coles.

LOL! Did you see that play? it's just like saying the Dolphin CB dropping that sure INT last Xmas that would have sealed the game for the Dolphins was ''classic Chad'' also.

What about Chad panicking in the pocket when he felt pressure, even when there was none and missing Coles wide open in the end zone? was that Coles fault for not diving 20 yards ahead of himself?

You Chadapologists are something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL! Did you see that play?

You Chadapologists are something.

Yes, I saw the play. I also saw him shrug off the tackle and dive headfirst for the first down, with defenders bearing down on him. It actually reminded me of when he first hurt his rotator cuff in Buffalo.

And these stupid labels like "Chadapologists" that you pass around is really just childish. If Chad ****s up, I'll say it. That last INT for the TD was a horrible pass. But unlike some people around here who won't give him any credit for any play the guy makes, I'm willing to at least give him credit when he makes a play. Some of you can't even bring yourself to do that which is sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great Post Sperm as always, but as always I find a way to disagree.;):D

QB

Dump Pennington. Get him off the team. Give him a plaque & a gold watch & send him on his merry way. You want to go with a young kid & make sure everyone's totally behind him, then you don't want him looking over his shoulder at the guy all the other veterans have been friends with for years, or having that fat-head from the NYPost chiming in with 'put Chad back in' articles with each growing pain. Plus you simply don't carry a backup QB with a $7.8M cap number. I doubt he'd take a straight pay-cut from his $4.8M base salary & have no interest in renegotiating to put off an even bigger eventual cap hit later. He still thinks he's starting material & would probably rather take his "last shot" somewhere else instead of holding a clipboard for Kellen Clemens. If we can get a draft pick for him - and I mean ANY draft pick - all the better. We'll save a couple million on the '08 cap (which will be whittled down a little bit with the addition of another backup), but after that he'll be of the cap forever. If we can't find a trade partner pre-draft, then we can split the $6M cap hit evenly over 2008-2009 instead. That depends on what (if anything) we're offered for him and how aggressive we are in free agency. If we lay another egg in FA, might as well take the full hit now & be done with it.

Have to see what we have in Kellen this year. If we only see him for a couple of games & he's not too good, we may give up on him prematurely. If he was in right now & was God-awful for >8 games, then we know we need to either draft someone high or make a play for the only high-profile UFA (if he's not locked up by then) in Tony Romo & then KC rides out the balance of his rookie contract holding a clipboard.

I have always liked Chad and I agree that its time for him to go. I hope he does well as he one of the classiest guys I can think of but he really needs a fresh start with a new team. As do we, with Clemens.Its time to see what he brings to the table. First of all we wont have a shot in hell of getting Romo so I think the plan will be to go to Clemens next year regardless. Its unfair to judge a QB after his first 9 gams in the league, but if he is horrificily awful then I think we should look at drafting a QB. I doubt that will happen though, I think if Kellen comes in and shows potential he stays, staerts next season and he proves himself then.

HB:

Personally I wouldn't do too much. We need a 3rd HB. One can easily make an argument that we could use an upgrade to a superstar over Jones, but personally I don't think it will have such a ridiculous impact without drastic improvement in the OL's run-blocking. Jones may not be the second coming of Jim Brown, but c'mon he really has nowhere to run. He doesn't help it with all his stutter-stepping & gives up a full yard quite often with his hesitance, but he's not the worst piece of crap in the league by a long shot. Leon I've liked from day one. I'd like a 3rd HB here for short-yardage. Someone with real power who may be unimpressive if given a healthy portion of the every-down carries. A TJ Duckett type. Nothing flashy. But someone who won't give Schott the bright idea to do the zero rushing attempts on 3rd & 1 and then again on 4th & 1 immediately thereafter.

I really disagree here, Jones may not be bad but he is 30. Its clear he's not the future and IMO this team is looking to exactly that. I'm probably biased as I am literally in love with Mcfadden but IMO he is the guy if available. IMO he is just to talented to pass on no matter what the needs of the team may be. The short yardage thing I kind of agree with, but in fairness with a good OL, that shouldnt be an issue (I'll get into that later;))

Leon should remain what he is, a situational third down back + return man. Nothing more, nothing less.

FB

To be honest, I have no idea what Barnes is worth. I haven't seen him do anything. It's a bit confusing, given our sorry OL, that we don't employ our hand-picked FA blocking FB. Even more so since Schott came from SD where Lorenzo Neal gave him a serious showing of what a good one can do for you. It may just be that Barnes stinks. If that's the case, I'd like to see one drafted, drop Barnes, and pick up Tony Richardson for his final year or two. He's old but is still solid. I like a mauling FB but if we're not going to use one then we shouldn't expend too many resources on one.

Likewise, I have no Idea what Barnes brings to the table, we dont use him enough. It seems as though Schotty doesnt like using FB's which like you said is surprising considering Neals play in SD. I would like us to try and improve but not make it a huge issue. The posistion is dying in the NFL. Are they useful? Yes. Are they a necessity? Not anymore.

I expect that we will sign some scrub, probably a former Pat and will never hear of him again.

WR

We really need a 3rd WR. Stuckey might have been that player, but who knows how fast he'll be next year. Brad Smith either isn't showing enough improvement or Pennington won't throw him the ball or Schott doesn't call his number enough. I have to believe, since he's clearly #3 right now, that we'd be hearing his name more if he was improving so well.

Doesn't have to be a superstar. I'm perfectly happy with Coles/Cotchery & feel they're a lot better weapons than we realize. But someone who's a burner with some experience might be ok, like a Drew Carter. There are too many other holes on the team to burn a day-one pick on a WR who won't see more than 30 passes at most thrown his way as a rookie (two per game). Late round picks I'd rather try out linebackers & linemen & see if one sticks. I really wanted Shaun McDonald this past off-season & he was dirt-cheap also. He would have been perfect.

I would like some speed in the WR core.Nowadays in the NFL thats not hard to get. id say we could draft a potential burner in the late round who could at least stretch the field if nothing else. Coles and Cotchery are a great tandem, one of the best in the league IMO. They are fine. Smith is interesting, because he has all that potential to be a real X-Factor but we're using him so predictably. When he comes in at QB its a running play, the D knows that. At WR he has a lot of ability and I think he is definetly worth keeping what this ability can develop into. J-Mac is a goner no doubt and IMO its his strong camp that has held Smiths progress back. That and Mangini ****ing about with him as a QB in camp. Pointless!!!

I say we sign some speed in the late rounds and keep Stuckey and Smith. Then let them prove their worth in camp.

TE

Stick with our current crew. Not a position that's going to get us over the hump by upgrading over Baker/Ryan anyway. They're not special talents, but they're not killing us either.

Agree, no problems. Lets not make this an issue.

OT

Well we're definitely going to need a backup left tackle as this is Adrian Jones' final season under his rookie deal. D'Brick still has to add another 10 lbs of mass & needs some serious work on his run-blocking technique. He's still a talent & this is our guy for a couple more years at least, for better or for worse.

At RT I'd like to see Bender get in there this year. He's supposedly got some skills but is light on pass-blocking experience. Well, get his ass in there. Clement sure as hell isn't the answer. Otherwise there seem to be some fine RT prospects coming out this year. Max Starks is a UFA but I think he lost his starting job. That may be good or bad, depending on our interest. He'll be cheaper, but if his demotion was due to his underachieving instead of Willie Colon's stellar development, then we don't need Anthony Clement II with 5x the salary. If he's reasonable, the advantage is that he can step right in & we don't have to wait for rookie development.

OG

This is seriously not even in need of discussion. We don't merely need an "upgrade" at LG; we need a superman. Alan Faneca, a future HOF'er still playing at a VERY high level, is that superman and is a UFA. If we go cheap on this, I don't know what else to say. None of the other UFA's are good enough to even sniff Faneca's balls after summer two-a-day's.

Draft one in the middle rounds unless value screams out to take one earlier. But we just locked up Moore & the thought of sticking a rookie in between D'Brick & Mangold is unappealing. I'd rather have Faneca lock up the position before the ink's dry on his contract & let a rookie compete with Moore.

I'll talk about the OL as a whole. 100% agree about Faneca, we have to go all out and I mean 100% to sign that guy. He would bring so much to this team its ridiculous. Not only in the run blocking, pass blocking etc. but also in the development of the guys either side of him, Brick and Mangold, you rightfully mentioned D'Bricks run blocking technique, well this guy Im sure would help it up a few notches. If we had McFadden, Jones and Leon running behind a line containing Alan Faneca. Our running game goes from below average to elite!!!

On the right side with Clement there has to be a change. its sad because the guy can actually be pretty good he's just so inconsistent its unbelievable, same for Moore but to a lesser extent. Bender I suppose should be given a shot but the early signals are that he's not the future or at least not in Tangini's eyes. I say we give him a shot and evaluate at the end season.

DL

Ellis is still too expensive to cut. We renegotiated his contract before the '06 season when we were in major cap trouble and the result is that cutting him doesn't do dick other than opening up a roster spot. If they decide to move him I'd look to the draft, and early. Haynesworth might be a fit here as well. Would be nice to have a lineman with a nasty streak for a change, and that dirtbag's got that in spades.

Coleman I think is adequate to start opposite him, assuming we stick with the 3-4 as our base scheme next year.

DRob is gone. There is no question. Crappy play, miscast in his role, and a $9M cap number says he's the first to go unless we're merely waiting until after June 1st to move $2M of the accelerated cap hit from '08 to '09. Pouha hardly looks like a cornerstone NT to rely on. I'd get what we can when we can. The candidates are 35 year-old Grady Jackson right now, 35 year-old Pat Williams next year (though he's probably more of a 4-3 NT), and a few draft prospects I know next to nothing about other than their listed size (BJ Raji, Frank Morton, maybe a couple others who likely won't make an NFL roster).

Ugh, I feel sick even talking about this sad excuse for a line but anyways. I would like to see Ellis traded, his value would still be decent and to be honest I am sick as hell with his one big play per game, before taking the rest of the game off. He gets pushed around way way too often by Tackles and when doubled he is out of the play.

I disagree with D-Rob. One simple reason, I think he'd make a hell of an End in the 3-4. I've always said that. He would face far less double teams and would be up against smaller players. I think he could do it. Him alongside Coleman + a big dominant NT on the line would be tough to stop. Thats were the 'big dominant NT' comes in. Like you said I'd get what we can, there is no major talent coming through so we have to pickup something, anything to stuff the middle. I'm tired right now so I'll leave that up to Tangini.

OLB

Thomas is here by virtue of his contract. Hopefully Bowens picks up the position to at least use situationally if 2008 starts to look more like 2007 than 2006 from BT.

Hobson is playing much suckier than he was in the past & his contract is up after this year. He's a bit too slow to get to the passer & too short with no ups to cover a TE. He's probably gone.

There is a playmaker FA option here in Terrell Suggs. Not quite the player that Adalius Thomas is/was, and he'll carry a higher pricetag as well since he only just turned 24 two weeks ago. Not the economical move, but you can't go from 0 to 60 in under 6-7 seconds with a Prius.

I'd be ok with taking a DE/OLB hybrid here also, but it depends on the ILB situation. If we're putting even one rookie in at ILB, then go with the veteran; otherwise we can roll the dice on a playmaker rookie with a high pick. I just don't want to see two rookie LB'ers on the field at the same time.

Suggs would be an amazing aqquisistion, it wont happen though. Especially if we get Faneca.

Thomas is terrible this season, and TBH I saw it coming. We vastly overated him after his good year in which he basically took advantage of awful teams and awful blocking. Unfortunately, like you said he may have to stay for contract reasons.

Hobson is way below average and would like to see him replaced, this is where we start drafting defence. Id use a late 1st/high second on a hybrid OLB. Theres always some great potential in that area draft wise. We must make sure that we find it!!!

ILB

I think everyone wants to see Harris in the starting lineup, certainly next year. You trade multiple day-one picks to move up to grab a guy, then you have to play him.

Barton & Vilma both look like garbage. If we somehow go after (and get) Suggs in March, then I'd look to fill this spot in the draft, but not too early.

I prefer trading Vilma, who doesn't fit & it sure seems like he doesn't want to be here. When you can move someone like that & actually get something of value in return, I think you do it.

Vilma must be traded. He cant play 3-4, its as simple as that. Harris Im sure will be starting, I already like what I see in him and I can see us getting a 1st for Vilma, I really can. Barton, I can see staying. Just for the sake of bringing along the other guys. I wouldnt be a fan of having a rookie and a 2nd year guy starting immediately at the heart of a 3-4 D. Im not sure on who's available but this is another position in grave concern.

CB

I'm really at a loss opposite Revis. Dyson should have been the perfect complement to him. Capable, reasonably-priced, and experienced in the "system" here. And just like that, he went from clearly the best CB on the team to utter refuse. With so much work needed in the trenches, we'll have to roll with Poteat/Dyson/Miller for another year. If we can get any semblance of a pass-rush, that's probably adequate

I dont see why we keep Miller. Leon can return as well as he could, thats been proven and hes about as useful at corner as a one legged man is at an arse kicking. I dont know what the hell's going on with Dyson, hes gone from a good physical corner to a guy who looks like hes playing 2 hand touch.

Poteat is okay, has been solid enough whenever I've seen him.I think he should stay. Barrett better be gone, I dont care about anything I just never want to that guy again!!!

Revis looks good but his help in the coming years looks like it will be limited.

S

Rhodes has taken a step back, and since we're going nowhere anyway, that may not be all that terrible. He'll need a contract extension before the '08 season begins and another stellar season could have doubled his pricetag. I think in addition to just having a little-bit of a down season, the rest of it is the mess in front of him making it even worse.

Eric Smith sure isn't looking like such a smart use of a day-one pick, right along with Schlegel. Maybe it's due to missing most of camp with an injury & maybe it's just that he looks good in camp b/c he's playing against the Jets offense. Who knows really. Erik Coleman is a UFA after this year & it doesn't look like we're going to lock him up unless no one else wants him & he comes back with his tail between his legs like Baker did. If the situation presents itself in the draft (read: we're not reaching or burning a 1st/2nd round pick) I'd take a flyer on a bigger DB with coverage skills. Otherwise go with Smith/Elam for another year & hope the light goes on with one or both. I just don't consider free safety to be a cornerstone position unless you've got a truly great one.

Rhodes will be okay, he may have taken a step back but he's still our best player on this D.

Elam showed some nice stuff, I expect a big competition at this position between Smith, Coleman and Elam. Not the highest quality of competition but we must make sure the best possible is playing. Mangini doesnt seem sure of our secondary at all.

ST

Nuge is here & not going anywhere at least through the '08 season. He was money with FG's last year but couldn't bury kickoffs. This year it's the opposite. Hopefully next year he learns to do the placekicking equivalent of walking & chewing gum at the same time. The guy has one friggin' job, as they say.

Graham is going to need some real competition in camp, no matter how much I liked the guy. Tremendous leg, but he's just so inconsistent.

Our ST coverage wise is again one of the best in the league minus that Hobbs kickoff.

Nuge has been shaky to say the least, he will stay but he better improve, whats going on with graham I dont know. Last season he was solid and reliable, this year has been very inconsistent. I think your right in syaing he at least needs some serious competition. Hopefully he can sort himself out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have officially given up caring about this team. It's a shame because this is the 1st year my 14 year old son James started getting into watching every game with us. I wish HE was the coach-he went undefeated and won the SB in Madden....even he sits there and asks WHY are they running that same play over and over??? He had a lot success running TJ-you know not up the friggin middle every play for 2-3 yards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I saw the play. I also saw him shrug off the tackle and dive headfirst for the first down, with defenders bearing down on him. It actually reminded me of when he first hurt his rotator cuff in Buffalo.

Shrugged off the tackle?

Oh yes, Chad used his powerful right arm to throw the defender to the side and heroically dive head first into enemy terrain. it was an absolutely amazing play, that was ''classic Chad'' as Mangini said.

And these stupid labels like "Chadapologists" that you pass around is really just childish. If Chad ****s up, I'll say it. That last INT for the TD was a horrible pass. But unlike some people around here who won't give him any credit for any play the guy makes, I'm willing to at least give him credit when he makes a play. Some of you can't even bring yourself to do that which is sad.

I just gave him credit.

Look, I'll try and come up with a better term than Chadapologist in the near future to make you happy. I'm terribly sorry. :( I was a little annoyed after Sunday's loss and it was the first term I could think of after watching ecurb lose it over his hero.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough on all counts. I don't pretend to know everything; it just comes out that way. And I do nothing to try to change that. Hence, this place has become my home.

Great Post Sperm as always, but as always I find a way to disagree.;):D

I have always liked Chad and I agree that its time for him to go. I hope he does well as he one of the classiest guys I can think of but he really needs a fresh start with a new team. As do we, with Clemens.Its time to see what he brings to the table. First of all we wont have a shot in hell of getting Romo so I think the plan will be to go to Clemens next year regardless. Its unfair to judge a QB after his first 9 gams in the league, but if he is horrificily awful then I think we should look at drafting a QB. I doubt that will happen though, I think if Kellen comes in and shows potential he stays, staerts next season and he proves himself then.

doesn't sound like we disagree much (if at all) here. I just sound like more of a dick when I say it. Unless it's the ***official*** game thread. Then you're a much bigger tool, lol.

I really disagree here, Jones may not be bad but he is 30. Its clear he's not the future and IMO this team is looking to exactly that. I'm probably biased as I am literally in love with Mcfadden but IMO he is the guy if available. IMO he is just to talented to pass on no matter what the needs of the team may be. The short yardage thing I kind of agree with, but in fairness with a good OL, that shouldnt be an issue (I'll get into that later;))

Leon should remain what he is, a situational third down back + return man. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jones isn't suddenly losing a step between this year and next year. The thing with RB's, as I see it, is you don't plan on having the same one for too long. If it works out that way then it works out that way. But the Martins & Emmitts & LT's are the exception rather than the rule. Give me a stud for 3-4 years & then grab someone different. I'll take that every time.

Jones was given a 4-year contract. This is year one. There is no way we're going after another "primary" type HB unless he has a major injury. Such is the bed we've made, and now we must lay in it. He'll be serviceable through age 31 (hopefully). But IMO if you have a true stud like you believe McFadden will be, he doesn't need to be groomed like a QB or a CB or a lineman. They jump in right away. They'll get a little better over time, but either they have it or they don't. A stud HB doesn't typically finally "get it" in year three or four. So I see that as one of the last pieces of the puzzle to fit in, not one of the first.

Besides, every single year there's a group of HB's that people fawn over. '08 will be no different. Nor '09, nor 2010. It's one of the easiest positions to fill if you've got a solid OL.

Likewise, I have no Idea what Barnes brings to the table, we dont use him enough. It seems as though Schotty doesnt like using FB's which like you said is surprising considering Neals play in SD. I would like us to try and improve but not make it a huge issue. The posistion is dying in the NFL. Are they useful? Yes. Are they a necessity? Not anymore.

I expect that we will sign some scrub, probably a former Pat and will never hear of him again.

agreed

I would like some speed in the WR core.Nowadays in the NFL thats not hard to get. id say we could draft a potential burner in the late round who could at least stretch the field if nothing else. Coles and Cotchery are a great tandem, one of the best in the league IMO. They are fine. Smith is interesting, because he has all that potential to be a real X-Factor but we're using him so predictably. When he comes in at QB its a running play, the D knows that. At WR he has a lot of ability and I think he is definetly worth keeping what this ability can develop into. J-Mac is a goner no doubt and IMO its his strong camp that has held Smiths progress back. That and Mangini ****ing about with him as a QB in camp. Pointless!!!

I say we sign some speed in the late rounds and keep Stuckey and Smith. Then let them prove their worth in camp.

LOL! I totally forgot McCareins was even on the team!

He's gone for sure. Pick up someone from somewhere, but I wouldn't bust our nut on any one since we don't need a #1 or #2 to supplant.

Agree, no problems. Lets not make this an issue.

I'll talk about the OL as a whole. 100% agree about Faneca, we have to go all out and I mean 100% to sign that guy. He would bring so much to this team its ridiculous. Not only in the run blocking, pass blocking etc. but also in the development of the guys either side of him, Brick and Mangold, you rightfully mentioned D'Bricks run blocking technique, well this guy Im sure would help it up a few notches. If we had McFadden, Jones and Leon running behind a line containing Alan Faneca. Our running game goes from below average to elite!!!

On the right side with Clement there has to be a change. its sad because the guy can actually be pretty good he's just so inconsistent its unbelievable, same for Moore but to a lesser extent. Bender I suppose should be given a shot but the early signals are that he's not the future or at least not in Tangini's eyes. I say we give him a shot and evaluate at the end season.

A top HB - if McFadden is even that - can certainly hide some deficiencies in the OL. But absent that, he'll look like Tomlinson did in his first few games this year. He didn't lose any talent those games; he just had nowhere to run.

I wouldn't be opposed to adding both Faneca and Starks. Starks is no great RT, but if he can be had for reasonable $, he's a legit starting RT. Plus, even though he's not starting now & they don't line up next to each other, he & Faneca have played together for a few years.

Ugh, I feel sick even talking about this sad excuse for a line but anyways. I would like to see Ellis traded, his value would still be decent and to be honest I am sick as hell with his one big play per game, before taking the rest of the game off. He gets pushed around way way too often by Tackles and when doubled he is out of the play.

I disagree with D-Rob. One simple reason, I think he'd make a hell of an End in the 3-4. I've always said that. He would face far less double teams and would be up against smaller players. I think he could do it. Him alongside Coleman + a big dominant NT on the line would be tough to stop. Thats were the 'big dominant NT' comes in. Like you said I'd get what we can, there is no major talent coming through so we have to pickup something, anything to stuff the middle. I'm tired right now so I'll leave that up to Tangini.

I don't know how much more guaranteed $ we gave Ellis before the '06 season. If it would be less than a $3M hit in any one season (even if it's $6M or less spread over two years), then I'd see if there's a market for him.

I don't know about DRob. With him it's always been his potential to do this or his potential to do that. Well this is his 4th year in the league. His knees are only going to get worse & his cap # cannot be justified. I wouldn't extend him. Since we'll need a real NT either way, I'd rather take my chances with a cheaper option. I'd hate to give Robertson more mega-bucks and still listen to excuses. I liked Hatcher (among many others at other positions), but Tangini felt Schelgel was their guy. There are some good 3-4 DE prospects this year it looks like. If we're going to go the money route, I'd much rather sink $ into someone like Haynesworth than give megabucks to tie up DRob for another 5 years.

Suggs would be an amazing aqquisistion, it wont happen though. Especially if we get Faneca.

Thomas is terrible this season, and TBH I saw it coming. We vastly overated him after his good year in which he basically took advantage of awful teams and awful blocking. Unfortunately, like you said he may have to stay for contract reasons.

Hobson is way below average and would like to see him replaced, this is where we start drafting defence. Id use a late 1st/high second on a hybrid OLB. Theres always some great potential in that area draft wise. We must make sure that we find it!!!

pretty much how I feel. Hobson's not under contract after this season ends & unless he's re-signed for backup $ I don't see him here in '08.

Vilma must be traded. He cant play 3-4, its as simple as that. Harris Im sure will be starting, I already like what I see in him and I can see us getting a 1st for Vilma, I really can. Barton, I can see staying. Just for the sake of bringing along the other guys. I wouldnt be a fan of having a rookie and a 2nd year guy starting immediately at the heart of a 3-4 D. Im not sure on who's available but this is another position in grave concern.
I guess Barton could stay one more year, but I'd rather not. He's not the player he once was & has a cap # of $4.5M to keep (barely $1M hit to cut). I don't think he's worth it; much rather sink that $3M+ with another mil or two for someone with a future here.

I seriously doubt anyone would give up a first-rounder for Vilma, who will now require a new contract immediately for any team acquiring him. But power to us if we can get it.

I dont see why we keep Miller. Leon can return as well as he could, thats been proven and hes about as useful at corner as a one legged man is at an arse kicking. I dont know what the hell's going on with Dyson, hes gone from a good physical corner to a guy who looks like hes playing 2 hand touch.

Poteat is okay, has been solid enough whenever I've seen him.I think he should stay. Barrett better be gone, I dont care about anything I just never want to that guy again!!!

Revis looks good but his help in the coming years looks like it will be limited.

Like JMac, I neglected to mention Barrett. Likely because my brain has decided to protect itself by blocking him out. No way that dude can justify us paying him a $3.6M salary when he's so cheap to cut.

Rhodes will be okay, he may have taken a step back but he's still our best player on this D.

Elam showed some nice stuff, I expect a big competition at this position between Smith, Coleman and Elam. Not the highest quality of competition but we must make sure the best possible is playing. Mangini doesnt seem sure of our secondary at all.

Coleman's not under contract after this season ends. I doubt he'll be back.

Our ST coverage wise is again one of the best in the league minus that Hobbs kickoff.

Nuge has been shaky to say the least, he will stay but he better improve, whats going on with graham I dont know. Last season he was solid and reliable, this year has been very inconsistent. I think your right in syaing he at least needs some serious competition. Hopefully he can sort himself out.

same thing I said. Douchebag.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough on all counts. I don't pretend to know everything; it just comes out that way. And I do nothing to try to change that. Hence, this place has become my home.

doesn't sound like we disagree much (if at all) here. I just sound like more of a dick when I say it. Unless it's the ***official*** game thread. Then you're a much bigger tool, lol.

Jones isn't suddenly losing a step between this year and next year. The thing with RB's, as I see it, is you don't plan on having the same one for too long. If it works out that way then it works out that way. But the Martins & Emmitts & LT's are the exception rather than the rule. Give me a stud for 3-4 years & then grab someone different. I'll take that every time.

Jones was given a 4-year contract. This is year one. There is no way we're going after another "primary" type HB unless he has a major injury. Such is the bed we've made, and now we must lay in it. He'll be serviceable through age 31 (hopefully). But IMO if you have a true stud like you believe McFadden will be, he doesn't need to be groomed like a QB or a CB or a lineman. They jump in right away. They'll get a little better over time, but either they have it or they don't. A stud HB doesn't typically finally "get it" in year three or four. So I see that as one of the last pieces of the puzzle to fit in, not one of the first.

Besides, every single year there's a group of HB's that people fawn over. '08 will be no different. Nor '09, nor 2010. It's one of the easiest positions to fill if you've got a solid OL.

agreed

LOL! I totally forgot McCareins was even on the team!

He's gone for sure. Pick up someone from somewhere, but I wouldn't bust our nut on any one since we don't need a #1 or #2 to supplant.

A top HB - if McFadden is even that - can certainly hide some deficiencies in the OL. But absent that, he'll look like Tomlinson did in his first few games this year. He didn't lose any talent those games; he just had nowhere to run.

I wouldn't be opposed to adding both Faneca and Starks. Starks is no great RT, but if he can be had for reasonable $, he's a legit starting RT. Plus, even though he's not starting now & they don't line up next to each other, he & Faneca have played together for a few years.

I don't know how much more guaranteed $ we gave Ellis before the '06 season. If it would be less than a $3M hit in any one season (even if it's $6M or less spread over two years), then I'd see if there's a market for him.

I don't know about DRob. With him it's always been his potential to do this or his potential to do that. Well this is his 4th year in the league. His knees are only going to get worse & his cap # cannot be justified. I wouldn't extend him. Since we'll need a real NT either way, I'd rather take my chances with a cheaper option. I'd hate to give Robertson more mega-bucks and still listen to excuses. I liked Hatcher (among many others at other positions), but Tangini felt Schelgel was their guy. There are some good 3-4 DE prospects this year it looks like. If we're going to go the money route, I'd much rather sink $ into someone like Haynesworth than give megabucks to tie up DRob for another 5 years.

pretty much how I feel. Hobson's not under contract after this season ends & unless he's re-signed for backup $ I don't see him here in '08.

I guess Barton could stay one more year, but I'd rather not. He's not the player he once was & has a cap # of $4.5M to keep (barely $1M hit to cut). I don't think he's worth it; much rather sink that $3M+ with another mil or two for someone with a future here.

I seriously doubt anyone would give up a first-rounder for Vilma, who will now require a new contract immediately for any team acquiring him. But power to us if we can get it.

Like JMac, I neglected to mention Barrett. Likely because my brain has decided to protect itself by blocking him out. No way that dude can justify us paying him a $3.6M salary when he's so cheap to cut.

Coleman's not under contract after this season ends. I doubt he'll be back.

same thing I said. Douchebag.

LOL, I hate your all your Cap numbers info, its too hard to argue with you. Jerk!!;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is fair, we need to see how he will react to these circumstances. If its fair to judge Chad by these then surely its fair to judge Clemens. These are the circumstances in which Chad is being ripped apart, that means Clemens must endure the same circumstances. Good or bad, time to see what he's got.

It's true to a point that Chad gets ripped sometimes too harshly, and perhaps unfairly given all of the circumstances. However, Mangini inherited Chad, he chose Clemens.

If Mangini still has concerns about the state of the offense, specifically the line, and I would imagine he does, why would he put his guy out there and risk him busting out?

Mangini is trying to build his own team. It's going to take time and I imagine he is not going to risk the future by making hasty decisions.

He did not draft Clemens for no good reason. He will get his shot. But I trust Mangini to determine when that time is right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's true to a point that Chad gets ripped sometimes too harshly, and perhaps unfairly given all of the circumstances. However, Mangini inherited Chad, he chose Clemens.

If Mangini still has concerns about the state of the offense, specifically the line, and I would imagine he does, why would he put his guy out there and risk him busting out?

Mangini is trying to build his own team. It's going to take time and I imagine he is not going to risk the future by making hasty decisions.

He did not draft Clemens for no good reason. He will get his shot. But I trust Mangini to determine when that time is right.

I don't buy that theory at all. This is not a young team. Building his own team would have meant either dumping half the existing players last season or drafting a ton of players that actually made a difference.

The longer the Chad situation goes on, the more I see next year as another wasted year. I mean if KC doesn't start until week 13 or something, if then, we go into next season having no clue if he can play or not. And god forbid if KC turns out to be like the Vikings QB. Suddenly you have to start all over again because there is no QB of the future.

This season is over. It's a great time to find out if KC can play or not. Yeah he'll make mistakes. He'll screw up, but you can deal with that as long as he shows the talent to be a starting QB. And after 9-10 games, you'd have an idea whether or not he's the starting QB next season. If he's not, you draft a QB. If he is, you build the OL and the DL. But if you go into next season having no clue, how are you building anything? Go ask the Miami Dolphin's about not having a clue who the starting QB is.

And don't give me the Chad will be the starting QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol. It was quicker for me to just paste the link...

Keep in mind a couple of things. I'm overly critical of some players. Second, I don't know nearly as much as I think I do & not as much as many others here. But I can pretty-up the wording so it may hide subtle ignorances.

That being said:

QB

Dump Pennington. Get him off the team. Give him a plaque & a gold watch & send him on his merry way. You want to go with a young kid & make sure everyone's totally behind him, then you don't want him looking over his shoulder at the guy all the other veterans have been friends with for years, or having that fat-head from the NYPost chiming in with 'put Chad back in' articles with each growing pain. Plus you simply don't carry a backup QB with a $7.8M cap number. I doubt he'd take a straight pay-cut from his $4.8M base salary & have no interest in renegotiating to put off an even bigger eventual cap hit later. He still thinks he's starting material & would probably rather take his "last shot" somewhere else instead of holding a clipboard for Kellen Clemens. If we can get a draft pick for him - and I mean ANY draft pick - all the better. We'll save a couple million on the '08 cap (which will be whittled down a little bit with the addition of another backup), but after that he'll be of the cap forever. If we can't find a trade partner pre-draft, then we can split the $6M cap hit evenly over 2008-2009 instead. That depends on what (if anything) we're offered for him and how aggressive we are in free agency. If we lay another egg in FA, might as well take the full hit now & be done with it.

Have to see what we have in Kellen this year. If we only see him for a couple of games & he's not too good, we may give up on him prematurely. If he was in right now & was God-awful for >8 games, then we know we need to either draft someone high or make a play for the only high-profile UFA (if he's not locked up by then) in Tony Romo & then KC rides out the balance of his rookie contract holding a clipboard.

HB:

Personally I wouldn't do too much. We need a 3rd HB. One can easily make an argument that we could use an upgrade to a superstar over Jones, but personally I don't think it will have such a ridiculous impact without drastic improvement in the OL's run-blocking. Jones may not be the second coming of Jim Brown, but c'mon he really has nowhere to run. He doesn't help it with all his stutter-stepping & gives up a full yard quite often with his hesitance, but he's not the worst piece of crap in the league by a long shot. Leon I've liked from day one. I'd like a 3rd HB here for short-yardage. Someone with real power who may be unimpressive if given a healthy portion of the every-down carries. A TJ Duckett type. Nothing flashy. But someone who won't give Schott the bright idea to do the zero rushing attempts on 3rd & 1 and then again on 4th & 1 immediately thereafter.

FB

To be honest, I have no idea what Barnes is worth. I haven't seen him do anything. It's a bit confusing, given our sorry OL, that we don't employ our hand-picked FA blocking FB. Even more so since Schott came from SD where Lorenzo Neal gave him a serious showing of what a good one can do for you. It may just be that Barnes stinks. If that's the case, I'd like to see one drafted, drop Barnes, and pick up Tony Richardson for his final year or two. He's old but is still solid. I like a mauling FB but if we're not going to use one then we shouldn't expend too many resources on one.

WR

We really need a 3rd WR. Stuckey might have been that player, but who knows how fast he'll be next year. Brad Smith either isn't showing enough improvement or Pennington won't throw him the ball or Schott doesn't call his number enough. I have to believe, since he's clearly #3 right now, that we'd be hearing his name more if he was improving so well.

Doesn't have to be a superstar. I'm perfectly happy with Coles/Cotchery & feel they're a lot better weapons than we realize. But someone who's a burner with some experience might be ok, like a Drew Carter. There are too many other holes on the team to burn a day-one pick on a WR who won't see more than 30 passes at most thrown his way as a rookie (two per game). Late round picks I'd rather try out linebackers & linemen & see if one sticks. I really wanted Shaun McDonald this past off-season & he was dirt-cheap also. He would have been perfect.

TE

Stick with our current crew. Not a position that's going to get us over the hump by upgrading over Baker/Ryan anyway. They're not special talents, but they're not killing us either.

OT

Well we're definitely going to need a backup left tackle as this is Adrian Jones' final season under his rookie deal. D'Brick still has to add another 10 lbs of mass & needs some serious work on his run-blocking technique. He's still a talent & this is our guy for a couple more years at least, for better or for worse.

At RT I'd like to see Bender get in there this year. He's supposedly got some skills but is light on pass-blocking experience. Well, get his ass in there. Clement sure as hell isn't the answer. Otherwise there seem to be some fine RT prospects coming out this year. Max Starks is a UFA but I think he lost his starting job. That may be good or bad, depending on our interest. He'll be cheaper, but if his demotion was due to his underachieving instead of Willie Colon's stellar development, then we don't need Anthony Clement II with 5x the salary. If he's reasonable, the advantage is that he can step right in & we don't have to wait for rookie development.

OG

This is seriously not even in need of discussion. We don't merely need an "upgrade" at LG; we need a superman. Alan Faneca, a future HOF'er still playing at a VERY high level, is that superman and is a UFA. If we go cheap on this, I don't know what else to say. None of the other UFA's are good enough to even sniff Faneca's balls after summer two-a-day's.

Draft one in the middle rounds unless value screams out to take one earlier. But we just locked up Moore & the thought of sticking a rookie in between D'Brick & Mangold is unappealing. I'd rather have Faneca lock up the position before the ink's dry on his contract & let a rookie compete with Moore.

DL

Ellis is still too expensive to cut. We renegotiated his contract before the '06 season when we were in major cap trouble and the result is that cutting him doesn't do dick other than opening up a roster spot. If they decide to move him I'd look to the draft, and early. Haynesworth might be a fit here as well. Would be nice to have a lineman with a nasty streak for a change, and that dirtbag's got that in spades.

Coleman I think is adequate to start opposite him, assuming we stick with the 3-4 as our base scheme next year.

DRob is gone. There is no question. Crappy play, miscast in his role, and a $9M cap number says he's the first to go unless we're merely waiting until after June 1st to move $2M of the accelerated cap hit from '08 to '09. Pouha hardly looks like a cornerstone NT to rely on. I'd get what we can when we can. The candidates are 35 year-old Grady Jackson right now, 35 year-old Pat Williams next year (though he's probably more of a 4-3 NT), and a few draft prospects I know next to nothing about other than their listed size (BJ Raji, Frank Morton, maybe a couple others who likely won't make an NFL roster).

OLB

Thomas is here by virtue of his contract. Hopefully Bowens picks up the position to at least use situationally if 2008 starts to look more like 2007 than 2006 from BT.

Hobson is playing much suckier than he was in the past & his contract is up after this year. He's a bit too slow to get to the passer & too short with no ups to cover a TE. He's probably gone.

There is a playmaker FA option here in Terrell Suggs. Not quite the player that Adalius Thomas is/was, and he'll carry a higher pricetag as well since he only just turned 24 two weeks ago. Not the economical move, but you can't go from 0 to 60 in under 6-7 seconds with a Prius.

I'd be ok with taking a DE/OLB hybrid here also, but it depends on the ILB situation. If we're putting even one rookie in at ILB, then go with the veteran; otherwise we can roll the dice on a playmaker rookie with a high pick. I just don't want to see two rookie LB'ers on the field at the same time.

ILB

I think everyone wants to see Harris in the starting lineup, certainly next year. You trade multiple day-one picks to move up to grab a guy, then you have to play him.

Barton & Vilma both look like garbage. If we somehow go after (and get) Suggs in March, then I'd look to fill this spot in the draft, but not too early.

I prefer trading Vilma, who doesn't fit & it sure seems like he doesn't want to be here. When you can move someone like that & actually get something of value in return, I think you do it.

CB

I'm really at a loss opposite Revis. Dyson should have been the perfect complement to him. Capable, reasonably-priced, and experienced in the "system" here. And just like that, he went from clearly the best CB on the team to utter refuse. With so much work needed in the trenches, we'll have to roll with Poteat/Dyson/Miller for another year. If we can get any semblance of a pass-rush, that's probably adequate

S

Rhodes has taken a step back, and since we're going nowhere anyway, that may not be all that terrible. He'll need a contract extension before the '08 season begins and another stellar season could have doubled his pricetag. I think in addition to just having a little-bit of a down season, the rest of it is the mess in front of him making it even worse.

Eric Smith sure isn't looking like such a smart use of a day-one pick, right along with Schlegel. Maybe it's due to missing most of camp with an injury & maybe it's just that he looks good in camp b/c he's playing against the Jets offense. Who knows really. Erik Coleman is a UFA after this year & it doesn't look like we're going to lock him up unless no one else wants him & he comes back with his tail between his legs like Baker did. If the situation presents itself in the draft (read: we're not reaching or burning a 1st/2nd round pick) I'd take a flyer on a bigger DB with coverage skills. Otherwise go with Smith/Elam for another year & hope the light goes on with one or both. I just don't consider free safety to be a cornerstone position unless you've got a truly great one.

ST

Nuge is here & not going anywhere at least through the '08 season. He was money with FG's last year but couldn't bury kickoffs. This year it's the opposite. Hopefully next year he learns to do the placekicking equivalent of walking & chewing gum at the same time. The guy has one friggin' job, as they say.

Graham is going to need some real competition in camp, no matter how much I liked the guy. Tremendous leg, but he's just so inconsistent.

Hope you find this insightful. Now I have to read a bunch of responses telling me how much people disagree, lol.

Awesome analysis, Sperm!

Thank you for taking the time for posting this. I'm pretty much on board with your take, but I believe we need to have some patience for it to all come to fruition. To expect all of this to have occured by this season was most likely not a reasonable expectation. Not saying that you're expecting this to happen this quickly, but apparently, many Jets fans are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't buy that theory at all. This is not a young team. Building his own team would have meant either dumping half the existing players last season or drafting a ton of players that actually made a difference.

It's not like he's the head coach of a new expansion team here. Gutting half the team would have severe cap ramifications. Even if he wanted to do that, it's not always possible, financially. Plus it could hinder finances to be used on free agents.

Perhaps he even feels that some of the players will eventually fit the mold he's looking for once he has all the pieces in place. But he can't put all the pieces in place in just one offseason.

The longer the Chad situation goes on, the more I see next year as another wasted year. I mean if KC doesn't start until week 13 or something, if then, we go into next season having no clue if he can play or not. And god forbid if KC turns out to be like the Vikings QB. Suddenly you have to start all over again because there is no QB of the future.

We may not know if he can play or not, but I'm sure Mangini has an opinion on whether he can or not. I doubt he drafted a QB in the second round for nothing. We will see him eventually.

This season is over. It's a great time to find out if KC can play or not. Yeah he'll make mistakes. He'll screw up, but you can deal with that as long as he shows the talent to be a starting QB. And after 9-10 games, you'd have an idea whether or not he's the starting QB next season. If he's not, you draft a QB. If he is, you build the OL and the DL. But if you go into next season having no clue, how are you building anything? Go ask the Miami Dolphin's about not having a clue who the starting QB is.

What the heck is waiting one or two more weeks going to hurt? I have no doubt we will see Clemens unless pigs fly and we run the table. :lol:

And don't give me the Chad will be the starting QB.

I really don't believe he will be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This season is over. It's a great time to find out if KC can play or not. Yeah he'll make mistakes. He'll screw up, but you can deal with that as long as he shows the talent to be a starting QB. And after 9-10 games, you'd have an idea whether or not he's the starting QB next season. If he's not, you draft a QB. If he is, you build the OL and the DL. But if you go into next season having no clue, how are you building anything? Go ask the Miami Dolphin's about not having a clue who the starting QB is.

I don't see how it could be looked at any other way than as you stated.

The scariest aspect of Pennington getting the nod for Sunday - is that Mangini really believes that pus arm is the guy who gives us the best chance to rebuild the team around going forward into 08, 09...

The other horrifying possibility is that Clemens is stepping on his member at every opportunity in practice during the week, but I think pieces of that scenario would have leaked out into print if any part of it was reality.

The whole sh!tbit makes me want to hurl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

So was this when it all began? Only took about a year to get rid of him... felt like an eternity to get rid of Herm... lol

Fire Eric Mangini.

Mangini is a horrible coach... period.

I know... boo them all though dammit! :lol:

Like my new avatar?

(Had the first ever Mangini Dunce avatar going on here..... :) )

Mangini is an idiot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...