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My theory


Gibbon

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I've brought this up before (I think), but I think the worst thing that could have happened to Mangini and the Jets was the 10-6 record last year and the playoff appearance.

Here's why;

When Mangini came in he had to believe that he was looking at a major overhaul and several years of struggles and mediocrity before he could build the winning team the way he wanted it to function. He introduced a new culture drafted players that fit that culture (as a foundation of what the team values he wanted). The season started and blam! he was the coach of a winning team in his first year.

I believe this resulted in a number of changes that derailed Mangini's original long term plan for the Jets.

First, and most importantly, what had looked like a major rebuilding project now looked like team that so got the ethic, the system, the offensive scheme etc that it just needed some tweeking to become a championship caliber team. So, you dont pursue the big name free agents and instead pick up value guys who have specific skills that you think can improve the team (Kenyon Coleman). During the draft you trade away a lot of picks for a few picks -- granted you got two very good players -- because you dont see all that many holes that need filling. Instead of changing the nature of camp and practice you make it even more strenuous etc. There's no need to change QB and develop the young guy you picked when you were rebuilding, because if the old, limited guy you played last year was good enough then he should be good enough this season. After all you went to the playoffs in the first year, you dont need to do much to get to the next level.

Second, you are the new crown prince of young coaches, the Mangenious, your on the Sopranos etc. No matter how humble you are this has to affect your thinking. So, you quickly assume that you can win with almost any combination of players. You can keep the guys who dont really fit your system because after all they were successful in the first year in the system they are bound to improve in the second year. You can get rid of guys that are malcontents or that you picked up when you thought you had a rebuilding project on your hands (Pete Kendall) because your system etc works and everyone is replaceable.

In short, you alter your long term plan, and in the process set your team back a year of development and by losing and by continuing to be an incredibly rigid, disciplinarian (after all it worked last year) you end up losing the support of your team leaders (Vilma).

If the Jets had gone 7-9 last year the Jets this year would probably be closer to achieving Super Bowl contender status than they are now.

Just a theory.

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Good post.

I dont disagree with you but I think you are overstating things. Mangini must realize that last year was the result of good luck, a favorable schedule and some really good game day coaching. After all, he must realize the benefits of having a strong, reliable running game and the ability to consistently stop the run. It couldnt have passed his notice that the Jets were getting beat on the line but were nevertheless successful toward the end of last season because they started to sell out on defense. And though Chad gave him 16 games last year he certainly couldnt rely on Chad going forward.

Further, there has been plenty of change since last season. There is one new starting DE, Coleman; two new LBs, Harris and Bowens, and a new CB, Revis. Mangini made his draft day moves because he felt it was a weak draft and wasnt unreasonable to believe that guys like Robertson and Vilma would better adapt to the 3-4 in their second year (ala Lewis in BAL). In fact, Robertson and Vilma have regressed this year. I think, if possible, he will address these guys/positions this year

I for the life of me do not understand why Pennington is still the QB. Perhaps you are right and Mangini is more arrogant because of last year's success and thinks he knows better than everyone else. But at this point Clemens makes more sense today and beyond, even if he proves to have been a wasted pick. Better to know now (or three weeks ago) and make alternative arrangements.

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I've brought this up before (I think), but I think the worst thing that could have happened to Mangini and the Jets was the 10-6 record last year and the playoff appearance.

Here's why;

When Mangini came in he had to believe that he was looking at a major overhaul and several years of struggles and mediocrity before he could build the winning team the way he wanted it to function. He introduced a new culture drafted players that fit that culture (as a foundation of what the team values he wanted). The season started and blam! he was the coach of a winning team in his first year.

I believe this resulted in a number of changes that derailed Mangini's original long term plan for the Jets.

First, and most importantly, what had looked like a major rebuilding project now looked like team that so got the ethic, the system, the offensive scheme etc that it just needed some tweeking to become a championship caliber team. So, you dont pursue the big name free agents and instead pick up value guys who have specific skills that you think can improve the team (Kenyon Coleman). During the draft you trade away a lot of picks for a few picks -- granted you got two very good players -- because you dont see all that many holes that need filling. Instead of changing the nature of camp and practice you make it even more strenuous etc. There's no need to change QB and develop the young guy you picked when you were rebuilding, because if the old, limited guy you played last year was good enough then he should be good enough this season. After all you went to the playoffs in the first year, you dont need to do much to get to the next level.

Second, you are the new crown prince of young coaches, the Mangenious, your on the Sopranos etc. No matter how humble you are this has to affect your thinking. So, you quickly assume that you can win with almost any combination of players. You can keep the guys who dont really fit your system because after all they were successful in the first year in the system they are bound to improve in the second year. You can get rid of guys that are malcontents or that you picked up when you thought you had a rebuilding project on your hands (Pete Kendall) because your system etc works and everyone is replaceable.

In short, you alter your long term plan, and in the process set your team back a year of development and by losing and by continuing to be an incredibly rigid, disciplinarian (after all it worked last year) you end up losing the support of your team leaders (Vilma).

If the Jets had gone 7-9 last year the Jets this year would probably be closer to achieving Super Bowl contender status than they are now.

Just a theory.

potw nom. pennington still sucks.

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I've brought this up before (I think), but I think the worst thing that could have happened to Mangini and the Jets was the 10-6 record last year and the playoff appearance.

Here's why;

When Mangini came in he had to believe that he was looking at a major overhaul and several years of struggles and mediocrity before he could build the winning team the way he wanted it to function. He introduced a new culture drafted players that fit that culture (as a foundation of what the team values he wanted). The season started and blam! he was the coach of a winning team in his first year.

I believe this resulted in a number of changes that derailed Mangini's original long term plan for the Jets.

First, and most importantly, what had looked like a major rebuilding project now looked like team that so got the ethic, the system, the offensive scheme etc that it just needed some tweeking to become a championship caliber team. So, you dont pursue the big name free agents and instead pick up value guys who have specific skills that you think can improve the team (Kenyon Coleman). During the draft you trade away a lot of picks for a few picks -- granted you got two very good players -- because you dont see all that many holes that need filling. Instead of changing the nature of camp and practice you make it even more strenuous etc. There's no need to change QB and develop the young guy you picked when you were rebuilding, because if the old, limited guy you played last year was good enough then he should be good enough this season. After all you went to the playoffs in the first year, you dont need to do much to get to the next level.

Second, you are the new crown prince of young coaches, the Mangenious, your on the Sopranos etc. No matter how humble you are this has to affect your thinking. So, you quickly assume that you can win with almost any combination of players. You can keep the guys who dont really fit your system because after all they were successful in the first year in the system they are bound to improve in the second year. You can get rid of guys that are malcontents or that you picked up when you thought you had a rebuilding project on your hands (Pete Kendall) because your system etc works and everyone is replaceable.

In short, you alter your long term plan, and in the process set your team back a year of development and by losing and by continuing to be an incredibly rigid, disciplinarian (after all it worked last year) you end up losing the support of your team leaders (Vilma).

If the Jets had gone 7-9 last year the Jets this year would probably be closer to achieving Super Bowl contender status than they are now.

Just a theory.

You're right on the money here. Only thing you forgot to mention is that Mangini forgot to make Anthony Schlegel the defensive captain.

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This is no excuse. This only proves Mangini has zero awareness and analysis ability. Most of us spent all summer being told we are idiots and the CS knew better than us when we complained about the state of the lines. Funny how we were right, maybe we should get coaching jobs now huh instead of being considered idiots? Or maybe, maybe, it was just painfully obvious to everyone that didn't have their head in their asses that trading for a 29 year old average RB won't suddenly make your terribly O-line learn how to run block. That D-Rob and Vilma are tiny and won't get bigger and stronger with another year in a scheme.

I would not be questioning Mangini's decision to start Chad if he showed me anything. But these were obvious glaring problems from last year and his solution was to ignore them entirely for a CB, RB and LB. Every idiot knows that your secondary is worthless if you can't get pressure on the QB, but Mangini decided he is exempt from those rules. From that reality. We didn't get pressure last year either let's be honest.

The Ravens won a freaking SUPER BOWL and jettisoned their starting QB. You're telling me this egotistical asshat can get a wild card with an easy schedule and can't make changes? The pathetic part is that this year's schedule wasn't even as hard as we thought it would be, so many teams were weak and we just managed to be even weaker. We should be 5-2 right now instead of the joke that we are. My god it's just so pathetic, it's absurd. How can we be so bad? We don't have any injuries even, we just straight up suck. I know other people don't see it this way but I don't see how you can't at least look at QB play and say there should be a change there. Yes you can find others to blame but how is he not a component that is also to blame? Is Clemens really that bad that we can't even give him a chance?

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This is no excuse. This only proves Mangini has zero awareness and analysis ability. Most of us spent all summer being told we are idiots and the CS knew better than us when we complained about the state of the lines. Funny how we were right, maybe we should get coaching jobs now huh instead of being considered idiots? Or maybe, maybe, it was just painfully obvious to everyone that didn't have their head in their asses that trading for a 29 year old average RB won't suddenly make your terribly O-line learn how to run block. That D-Rob and Vilma are tiny and won't get bigger and stronger with another year in a scheme.

I would not be questioning Mangini's decision to start Chad if he showed me anything. But these were obvious glaring problems from last year and his solution was to ignore them entirely for a CB, RB and LB. Every idiot knows that your secondary is worthless if you can't get pressure on the QB, but Mangini decided he is exempt from those rules. From that reality. We didn't get pressure last year either let's be honest.

The Ravens won a freaking SUPER BOWL and jettisoned their starting QB. You're telling me this egotistical asshat can get a wild card with an easy schedule and can't make changes? The pathetic part is that this year's schedule wasn't even as hard as we thought it would be, so many teams were weak and we just managed to be even weaker. We should be 5-2 right now instead of the joke that we are. My god it's just so pathetic, it's absurd. How can we be so bad? We don't have any injuries even, we just straight up suck. I know other people don't see it this way but I don't see how you can't at least look at QB play and say there should be a change there. Yes you can find others to blame but how is he not a component that is also to blame? Is Clemens really that bad that we can't even give him a chance?

To me, starting Clemens now isn't about winning the next 9 games. It's about seeing if the kid can play or not. If he doesn't start until some game in Dec, then the reality is, we won't find a damn thing about him this year. 3-4 games isn't enough to learn his strengths or weaknesses.

So that means next season is a fresh season with a Rookie QB. Another "pass" season unless KC becomes Tony Romo and even as good as that guy played, he still makes Rookie Mistakes. On the other hand, if KC turns out to be like the kid in Minnesota, suddenly you have to start all over again. ANd suddenly your 3-4 year plan turns into a 8 year plan.

It does not look like Mangini and company actually have a plan.

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I've brought this up before (I think), but I think the worst thing that could have happened to Mangini and the Jets was the 10-6 record last year and the playoff appearance.

Here's why;

When Mangini came in he had to believe that he was looking at a major overhaul and several years of struggles and mediocrity before he could build the winning team the way he wanted it to function. He introduced a new culture drafted players that fit that culture (as a foundation of what the team values he wanted). The season started and blam! he was the coach of a winning team in his first year.

I believe this resulted in a number of changes that derailed Mangini's original long term plan for the Jets.

First, and most importantly, what had looked like a major rebuilding project now looked like team that so got the ethic, the system, the offensive scheme etc that it just needed some tweeking to become a championship caliber team. So, you dont pursue the big name free agents and instead pick up value guys who have specific skills that you think can improve the team (Kenyon Coleman). During the draft you trade away a lot of picks for a few picks -- granted you got two very good players -- because you dont see all that many holes that need filling. Instead of changing the nature of camp and practice you make it even more strenuous etc. There's no need to change QB and develop the young guy you picked when you were rebuilding, because if the old, limited guy you played last year was good enough then he should be good enough this season. After all you went to the playoffs in the first year, you dont need to do much to get to the next level.

Second, you are the new crown prince of young coaches, the Mangenious, your on the Sopranos etc. No matter how humble you are this has to affect your thinking. So, you quickly assume that you can win with almost any combination of players. You can keep the guys who dont really fit your system because after all they were successful in the first year in the system they are bound to improve in the second year. You can get rid of guys that are malcontents or that you picked up when you thought you had a rebuilding project on your hands (Pete Kendall) because your system etc works and everyone is replaceable.

In short, you alter your long term plan, and in the process set your team back a year of development and by losing and by continuing to be an incredibly rigid, disciplinarian (after all it worked last year) you end up losing the support of your team leaders (Vilma).

If the Jets had gone 7-9 last year the Jets this year would probably be closer to achieving Super Bowl contender status than they are now.

Just a theory.

Agreed, This sounds sorta like My Theory a Little , See my "Mangini Must be thinking Draft Picks" Thread
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Agreed, This sounds sorta like My Theory a Little , See my "Mangini Must be thinking Draft Picks" Thread

The problem with that theory is that they haven't picked great players. DBrick is ok, but he's not a pro bowler. So who are they going to pick with the 2nd pick in the draft? Another DBrick. If Dbrick and Mangold made this line better, I'd say great picks. But the OL still stinks and DBrick and Mangold look like good OL, not great.

And what is the future plan based on? What if KC isn't the QB of the future and at this point it looks like we won't find that out until season 3. Suddenly you have no real QB going into Year 4. And in all honesty, you have no future.

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You're right on the money here. Only thing you forgot to mention is that Mangini forgot to make Anthony Schlegel the defensive captain.

Yeah I was wondering if you'd pick up on that. Its a good thing the Jets cut that guy. He's only good against the run and the Jets dont need help there.:)

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This is no excuse. This only proves Mangini has zero awareness and analysis ability. Most of us spent all summer being told we are idiots and the CS knew better than us when we complained about the state of the lines. Funny how we were right, maybe we should get coaching jobs now huh instead of being considered idiots? Or maybe, maybe, it was just painfully obvious to everyone that didn't have their head in their asses that trading for a 29 year old average RB won't suddenly make your terribly O-line learn how to run block. That D-Rob and Vilma are tiny and won't get bigger and stronger with another year in a scheme.

I would not be questioning Mangini's decision to start Chad if he showed me anything. But these were obvious glaring problems from last year and his solution was to ignore them entirely for a CB, RB and LB. Every idiot knows that your secondary is worthless if you can't get pressure on the QB, but Mangini decided he is exempt from those rules. From that reality. We didn't get pressure last year either let's be honest.

The Ravens won a freaking SUPER BOWL and jettisoned their starting QB. You're telling me this egotistical asshat can get a wild card with an easy schedule and can't make changes? The pathetic part is that this year's schedule wasn't even as hard as we thought it would be, so many teams were weak and we just managed to be even weaker. We should be 5-2 right now instead of the joke that we are. My god it's just so pathetic, it's absurd. How can we be so bad? We don't have any injuries even, we just straight up suck. I know other people don't see it this way but I don't see how you can't at least look at QB play and say there should be a change there. Yes you can find others to blame but how is he not a component that is also to blame? Is Clemens really that bad that we can't even give him a chance?

Uhhh. . . I wasnt excusing anything. Just attempting to understand why Mangini has been reluctant to change things from last year.

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I've brought this up before (I think), but I think the worst thing that could have happened to Mangini and the Jets was the 10-6 record last year and the playoff appearance.

Here's why;

When Mangini came in he had to believe that he was looking at a major overhaul and several years of struggles and mediocrity before he could build the winning team the way he wanted it to function. He introduced a new culture drafted players that fit that culture (as a foundation of what the team values he wanted). The season started and blam! he was the coach of a winning team in his first year.

I believe this resulted in a number of changes that derailed Mangini's original long term plan for the Jets.

First, and most importantly, what had looked like a major rebuilding project now looked like team that so got the ethic, the system, the offensive scheme etc that it just needed some tweeking to become a championship caliber team. So, you dont pursue the big name free agents and instead pick up value guys who have specific skills that you think can improve the team (Kenyon Coleman). During the draft you trade away a lot of picks for a few picks -- granted you got two very good players -- because you dont see all that many holes that need filling. Instead of changing the nature of camp and practice you make it even more strenuous etc. There's no need to change QB and develop the young guy you picked when you were rebuilding, because if the old, limited guy you played last year was good enough then he should be good enough this season. After all you went to the playoffs in the first year, you dont need to do much to get to the next level.

Second, you are the new crown prince of young coaches, the Mangenious, your on the Sopranos etc. No matter how humble you are this has to affect your thinking. So, you quickly assume that you can win with almost any combination of players. You can keep the guys who dont really fit your system because after all they were successful in the first year in the system they are bound to improve in the second year. You can get rid of guys that are malcontents or that you picked up when you thought you had a rebuilding project on your hands (Pete Kendall) because your system etc works and everyone is replaceable.

In short, you alter your long term plan, and in the process set your team back a year of development and by losing and by continuing to be an incredibly rigid, disciplinarian (after all it worked last year) you end up losing the support of your team leaders (Vilma).

If the Jets had gone 7-9 last year the Jets this year would probably be closer to achieving Super Bowl contender status than they are now.

Just a theory.

I think your theory is dead on. It is human nature for the ebb and flows of circumstance to effect our decision making in either making us believe we are smarter or dumber than we really are. I know the pitchfork and torch brigade will not buy it, but Mangini just may be smart enough to realize this himself and get the team in the right direction again this off season.

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I think your theory is dead on. It is human nature for the ebb and flows of circumstance to effect our decision making in either making us believe we are smarter or dumber than we really are. I know the pitchfork and torch brigade will not buy it, but Mangini just may be smart enough to realize this himself and get the team in the right direction again this off season.

Losing is one thing. Getting worse at every single thing is another. Rebuilding doesn't mean you take 10 steps back. Right now Mangini looks like one of the dumbest coaches in the NFL.

ANd not starting KC anytime soon, means you'd have a rookie starting QB next year. And putting all your hope in a QB you know nothing about, isn't exactly a smart move. If Dree Brees were the QB of the Chargers last year, would they have beaten the Pats? Cause Rivers made too many rookie mistakes as the season progressed. If Tony Romo started a season earlier, would the Cowboys have won the division last year and made it farther in the playoffs instead of folding down the stretch?

And if KC isn't a legit starting NFL QB, suddenly you have no future QB and it's already year 3 into the plan.

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Losing is one thing. Getting worse at every single thing is another. Rebuilding doesn't mean you take 10 steps back. Right now Mangini looks like one of the dumbest coaches in the NFL.

ANd not starting KC anytime soon, means you'd have a rookie starting QB next year. And putting all your hope in a QB you know nothing about, isn't exactly a smart move. If Dree Brees were the QB of the Chargers last year, would they have beaten the Pats? Cause Rivers made too many rookie mistakes as the season progressed. If Tony Romo started a season earlier, would the Cowboys have won the division last year and made it farther in the playoffs instead of folding down the stretch?

And if KC isn't a legit starting NFL QB, suddenly you have no future QB and it's already year 3 into the plan.

Yes, not starting KC is off the charts dumb. For many reasons. Most of the other problems can't be addressed until the off-season, but there is no excuse to not start KC and at least find out what we have in him.

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