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Chiefs’ conservative offense inspires lots of grumbling. Herm Sucks (Merged 2X)


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A story forwarded to me by a friend who is a CHIEFS fan from the KANSAS CITY STAR. Any of this sound pretty familiar?

Chiefs’ conservative offense inspires lots of grumbling

By JOE POSNANSKI

INDIANAPOLIS | Frustration bubbles now. It had to happen. Coaches, players, fans, you name it — when you score 13 offensive touchdowns in 10 games, everybody will start to get testy. They were plenty testy after Sunday’s loss in Indianapolis.

“We’re going to have to blow it all up,” one anonymous Chiefs insider said.

“Something is going to have to change, because this is a joke,” said another.

I can take losing,” said a third. “But I can’t take not trying.”

Yes, there were all sorts of anonymous rumbles and grumbles in the locker room Sunday after the Chiefs’ 13-10 loss to the Colts. The Chiefs’ coaches went to Indianapolis believing that their only chance to win with first-time starter Brodie Croyle at quarterback and a lacking offensive line was to play a slow-down, four-corners, some-kind-of-punterful game. The strategy did keep the game close.

That didn’t make anybody feel better.

We’re playing the Super Bowl champs, and we’re not going to take even one shot to win the game?” one of those Chiefs grumblers asked. “That’s who we are now?”

You get the picture. There’s a serious identity crisis happening within the Chiefs. The anger Sunday — on the surface, anyway — was over an ultraconservative game plan that was built to protect Croyle.

At the end of the first half, for instance, when the Chiefs had more than a minute left and all three timeouts, they sat on the ball. Early in the fourth quarter, with the Chiefs on their own 46 facing a fourth and 1, there was never even a discussion to go for it.

The Chiefs scored their one touchdown when Croyle threw a laser pass somewhere over Dwayne Bowe (way up high) and Bowe snagged it, somehow dancing his feet inbounds, a spectacular play that made you think maybe the Chiefs would open it up a little bit. No. Late in the fourth quarter, with the Chiefs facing third and 18, they ran a safe draw play and punted rather than even try to go for the first down. The Colts drove down the field, ran out the last 7 minutes of clock and kicked the game-winning field goal with 3 seconds left.

Even the last play of the game — the Chiefs did get the ball back at the 40 — was not a Hail Mary bomb into the end zone like you might expect. It was a short pass to Kolby Smith. That was pretty much how it went.

“Conservative?” asked Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez, one of the few players who grumbled on the record. “Yeah, you might call that conservative.”

“Do you think Brodie Croyle has a chance to be a good quarterback?”

“Yeah,” Gonzalez said through gritted teeth. “If they give him that chance.”

There’s more here, though. The anger isn’t about just this one game. It goes back to a decision Herm Edwards made shortly after taking the job. Everyone can appreciate that he came into an odd situation — he took over an offense that had scored more points than any other team in the NFL the previous four years. But it was also, by far, the oldest offense in the league. Everybody who was paying attention could hear the clock ticking.

Trouble is that Edwards already had a reputation — earned in New York — as the First Officer of Field Goals, a defensive coach who wanted to win games 12-10. He argues the point (Edwards says he wants to score 24 points in a game), but he knows this is how people see him.

When he took the Chiefs’ job, people in and out of the organization kept asking, “Are you going to change this offense?” That’s when Edwards made a mistake. He hired offensive-line coach Mike Solari to be coordinator for the first time in his long NFL career. And he told Solari to keep the playbook more or less intact.

We’re running the same plays,” Edwards still says week after week.

Maybe. But they’re not running them in the same order. And they’re certainly not running them with the same results. After a short while, Edwards figured that the only way for this team to win was to give the ball to Larry Johnson more times than any running back in NFL history. That did get the Chiefs to the playoffs last year. Then this year, Larry Johnson got hurt.

And now, the Chiefs’ offense is a mess. It’s the worst in the NFL. They have an antiquated playboook, a crumbling OL, an offensive game plan that makes fans want to throw stuff at their televisions and, now, a locker room filled with frustrated players and coaches and equipment managers — and you name it. People want changes.

What do you do? Well, for now, it’s clear that the Chiefs are not a playoff team, even if the wretchedness of the AFC West will not let them out of the race. So, it seems to me they should spend the rest of this season developing Brodie Croyle, who, in his limited role, looked pretty good Sunday. The guy’s got talent. It’s time to commit to him as the quarterback of the future.

They should spotlight Dwayne Bowe. He is terrific and is on pace to have 1,000 yards receiving, which would make him the first Chiefs rookie to do that since, oh yeah, ever. They should remember that Tony Gonzalez is still pretty close to unstoppable down the field. They should try to use Priest Holmes smarter — he’s good for 10 to 15 carries and a few screen passes (where are the screen passes? Holmes was one of the best screen receivers in the NFL). In other words, try to get some positives out of the rest of the season.

And after that? Well, the anonymous Chief is right. They will have to blow things up. But that can wait for the offseason. It’s coming sooner than anyone wanted anyway.

In typical Herm fashion, he hires people and stand s back and does zippo but his usual BS. Cunnuingham (who he inherited) is running the D and running it well. And based upn what we saw on HBO (and in NY), it seems Herm has very little to do wiht strategy or game day decisions. HE hired Solari...who is a joke. And Herm is unqualified to help there anyway. Now, his "play not to lose" mentality has been exposed in KC (as it was here) and he's losing his team. His motivation BS only works for so long and it looks like it will work a lot shorter a time in KC then it did here.

Oh, and a little note for you Mrs Edwards. Before you start with your "LJ is out, his OL is a mess, he ahs no talent" crap, please remmeber a coupe of things:

1. When I asked you to compare LJ and Thomas JOnes (shortly after your assinine "the Chiefs have HALF the talent the jets do" quote, YOU said LJ wasnt playing all that well anyway.

2. The OL mess is partially Herms fualt. He sat there and rather then try and replace Willie Roaf last year, allowed him to "take his time" (much as he did with John and Donnie Abraham in NY) and kept waiting for him to come back. He then decided Kyle Turley wa san answer. So spare me the "Herm has no talent" BS.

3. Bieng that this is about Herm in KANSAS CITY, lets see if you can get through one post wihtout mentioning how he got the Jets to the playoffs three times or KC last year...thats irrelavnt to your "Herm is doing a great job THIS year" qquote.

The prblem wiht Herm is his "play not to lose" mentality combined wiht his limtied knowledge of actual football x and o. Bullsh*t only works for so long in the NFL.

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Now lets wait for Mrs. Edwards Spin Patrol to wiehg in wiht more "truth"!!!

She'll need more time to post though. Planning the breakfast spread and making the muffins for the KC media before Herm's comedy hour (aka his press conference) takes time :P

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Again...why does the Jets record or the fact that KC is 4-6 and only 2 games out because the division is so bad have ANY relevance to the "Herm is doing a "great" job this year" issue that Mrs Edwards keeps bringin up????

i find it funny that a 2 and 8 team makes fun of a team in a divisional race. It's like being in a high school where the freshman make fun of the sophmores...

whatever. Please continue...

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i find it funny that a 2 and 8 team makes fun of a team in a divisional race. It's like being in a high school where the freshman make fun of the sophmores...

whatever. Please continue...

Again, what does 2-8 have to do wiht the agruement that is continuously made by Mrs Edwards (and some others) that Herm is doing a "great" job in KC???? Keep it up though...if you say it enough times some might actually start believing its relevant.

As to the "division race" that the 4-6 Cheifs are "in"...well, considering the current circumstances in Hermy's KC, let's just write that silly statement off to a monmetary brain fart on your part.

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The reason he's even in a division race is because he looked at the Patriots and knew he would never be able to overtake them so ochestrated his way to KC. Then the Chargers had their great year last year and he was probably scared to death, but the Chargers have come back down to earth. If we were 4-6, we'd still be pretty much out of it in our division, but the AFC West is wide open now because Norv Turner is a horrible coach. With that talent level he has, they should be running away with the division.

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I saw that game yesterday. They seemed to run on 1st down literally every time. it's beyond a joke, I feel sorry for KC fans, better record or not, they are going nowhere with that idiot as HC.
My Little Nephew is a KC fan ,I told him yesterday I was sorry....

So he looks over at me and says "What are you Sorry about ?" and I said You Will learn soon enough what herm is all about, Then I let out a creepy Laugh and then he gave me the Look of Death.lol

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Again, what does 2-8 have to do wiht the agruement that is continuously made by Mrs Edwards (and some others) that Herm is doing a "great" job in KC???? Keep it up though...if you say it enough times some might actually start believing its relevant.

As to the "division race" that the 4-6 Cheifs are "in"...well, considering the current circumstances in Hermy's KC, let's just write that silly statement off to a monmetary brain fart on your part.

You are just like the KC supporter who bashes anyone for wanting Penny to start at the beggining of the year, and then now that those same people are supporting KC, you are calling us KC haters, or something along those lines.

I don't know how good your reading comprension is, but i'll try to be clear.

I think herm is doing a decent job, he has an average team, and they are playing better than i thought they would. For a Jets fan to make fun of the Chiefs situation is pretty funny. We are biding for a top five pick, and they are biding for a divsion title.

I guess the whole thing is laughable, Edwards is an average to below average coach, i'm glad he's gone, but i'm not going to talk too much **** about him until the Jets get some wins.

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You are just like the KC supporter who bashes anyone for wanting Penny to start at the beggining of the year, and then now that those same people are supporting KC, you are calling us KC haters, or something along those lines.

I don't know how good your reading comprension is, but i'll try to be clear.

I think herm is doing a decent job, he has an average team, and they are playing better than i thought they would. For a Jets fan to make fun of the Chiefs situation is pretty funny. We are biding for a top five pick, and they are biding for a divsion title.

I guess the whole thing is laughable, Edwards is an average to below average coach, i'm glad he's gone, but i'm not going to talk too much **** about him until the Jets get some wins.

he took the best offense in the NFL and in under 2 years destroyed it.

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he took the best offense in the NFL and in under 2 years destroyed it.

Their offense is way worse, their defense is way better. I'd say that makes him an average to below average coach.

Herm sucks at a lot of things, one of them being; building an offensive line. Putting herm in a situation where he loses two HOF linemen, is not something he will be able to fix. So yeah, he's average, to below average, that's all i'm sayin.

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You are just like the KC supporter who bashes anyone for wanting Penny to start at the beggining of the year, and then now that those same people are supporting KC, you are calling us KC haters, or something along those lines.

I don't know how good your reading comprension is, but i'll try to be clear.

I think herm is doing a decent job, he has an average team, and they are playing better than i thought they would. For a Jets fan to make fun of the Chiefs situation is pretty funny. We are biding for a top five pick, and they are biding for a divsion title.

I guess the whole thing is laughable, Edwards is an average to below average coach, i'm glad he's gone, but i'm not going to talk too much **** about him until the Jets get some wins.

Wow...you make a totally roundabout, irrelevant analogy and you question MY reading comp. Now THAT is funny!!!!

What does Chad have to do wiht this? Answer: nothing. And I dont think I have ever brought up my feelings on the QB situation on this board. But nice attempt at a point anyway.

Herm has an "average" team who has a superstar RB, an all pro TE, a #1 pick WR who will vie for ROY this year and a D witha very good front 7 and talent in the secondary. I asked Mrs Edwards to try but he ignored the challenge bt go compare the two rosters at the beginning of the year and go starter for starter...you'll find KC wins MANY of the battles.

And what is laughable is you claiming a 4-6 team that is clearly about to totally hit the skids for the year is "battling for a division title" simlpy because the rest of the division is so bad.

But leave it to the Hermy Lovers...whenever cornered about their beloved Fraud, they will always toss in a Jets referecne no matter how irrelevant. In the long run, we are ging to be MUCH better off then KC. Mangini will keep this team moving forward whereas Herm will ruiin the Chiefs just as he ruined us and then took off.

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Their offense is way worse, their defense is way better. I'd say that makes him an average to below average coach.

Herm sucks at a lot of things, one of them being; building an offensive line. Putting herm in a situation where he loses two HOF linemen, is not something he will be able to fix. So yeah, he's average, to below average, that's all i'm sayin.

Really. lets see....

Larry Johnson v Thomas Jones edge KC

Tony Gonzalez v Chris baker huge edge KC

Bowe/Kenison v Coles/Cotch edge NY

OL v OL draw

(who were the two HOF lnemen he lost? Shields and Roaf? So two aging vets retire from the OL two years ago and the whole O should go to pot??? OK, how about how he placated Roaf for months rather then trying to replace him and just expected he;d come back and left himslef wiht zippo. Sheilds? How liong does it take to draft or sign a decent OG???? Please. Herm is so beholden to his vets that even when they say they dont want to play anymore, he STILL relies on them!!!!!)

Their offense is "way worse"???? Not on paper (or at least before Herm gets a hold of it) its not. Its Herms play not to lose mentality that could have shut down the 94 49ers if he were HC there.

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Wow...you make a totally roundabout, irrelevant analogy and you question MY reading comp. Now THAT is funny!!!!

What does Chad have to do wiht this? Answer: nothing. And I dont think I have ever brought up my feelings on the QB situation on this board. But nice attempt at a point anyway.

Herm has an "average" team who has a superstar RB, an all pro TE, a #1 pick WR who will vie for ROY this year and a D witha very good front 7 and talent in the secondary. I asked Mrs Edwards to try but he ignored the challenge bt go compare the two rosters at the beginning of the year and go starter for starter...you'll find KC wins MANY of the battles.

And what is laughable is you claiming a 4-6 team that is clearly about to totally hit the skids for the year is "battling for a division title" simlpy because the rest of the division is so bad.

But leave it to the Hermy Lovers...whenever cornered about their beloved Fraud, they will always toss in a Jets referecne no matter how irrelevant. In the long run, we are ging to be MUCH better off then KC. Mangini will keep this team moving forward whereas Herm will ruiin the Chiefs just as he ruined us and then took off.

Mangini is probably better than Herm, as i said in my post (you may have missed this again)...

I think herm is doing a decent job, he has an average team, and they are playing better than i thought they would. For a Jets fan to make fun of the Chiefs situation is pretty funny.

So again, I don't like Herm, I don't think he's a good coach, but i do think he's an average coach. I do think Mangini is a better coach.

IDK what else to tell you? I thought i made it pretty clear in my last post, let me know if you need me to break it down any further for you. I'm here for you, and only you.

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Mangini is probably better than Herm, as i said in my post (you may have missed this again)...

So again, I don't like Herm, I don't think he's a good coach, but i do think he's an average coach. I do think Mangini is a better coach.

IDK what else to tell you? I thought i made it pretty clear in my last post, let me know if you need me to break it down any further for you. I'm here for you, and only you.

No I think your avoidance of the actual issues and your bringing irrelevant points into the agruement pretty much sums you up. No need to expound any further. You;re excused now....

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No I think your avoidance of the actual issues and your bringing irrelevant points into the agruement pretty much sums you up. No need to expound any further. You;re excused now....

Next time i say Herm is an average to below average coach, this means you'll let it slide? Or will you again go into a 3 page rant about how he's terrible? I think you need to slow down your reading a bit...

here's the issue

Herm = average to below average

You = Herm is horrible

Not sure that this is a very deep and compelling argument...

:confused:

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Again...why does the Jets record or the fact that KC is 4-6 and only 2 games out because the division is so bad have ANY relevance to the "Herm is doing a "great" job this year" issue that Mrs Edwards keeps bringin up????

Was that a rhetorical question? ;)

Answer: Some people have a problem grasping the concept of mutual exclusivity.

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Mangini may not be the answer. But what a championship team needs is some amount of unpredictability. Herm will never be that type of coach. He believes his method is the correct one - correct as in other methods are INcorrect - and will not deviate from them unless his job is on the line. When that fails as well (Heimerdinger's offense, etc) he takes it to mean he was right all along and shouldn't listen to others' stupid suggestions that a QB throw the football over 3-6 yards. Oh, once a season he'll try airing it out a lot, but as often as not he'll announce that it's coming on the Tuesday-Wednesday before the game.

What our team needs (other than the Pats' DL and a Brady/Moss tandem) is some unpredictability. THIS is precisely what made people optimistic about Mangini during/after 2006. He doesn't mix it up nearly enough; and thus far, he is Herm-like in his stubbornness in many ways. But then you see a game like this one, where we didn't only win because the players played well. There seemed to be a good PLAN that was specifically made for this opponent. He moved players around. Changed personnel/packages. It was, dare I say, a well-coached game (at least on defense).

As far as offense, well yes it was a bit boring & we didn't exactly light up the scoreboard. But when you're the only one with a 100-yard rusher against their sick rush defense, it can't be all bad. That, and we don't know what else Mangini/Schotty had in store for Pittsburgh with our #1 WR actually IN the game. Based on one play, it sure looked like they planned to get him involved. Both JMac & Smith are major, MAJOR downgrades at the position.

Being unpredictable - the opponent not knowing what you're going to do & not countering with an effective solution to your attack plans - is an enormous difference. I hope we see more of it with Mangini & less "player x is the starter at position x - end of discussion" that we've also seen plenty of from him.

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