I respectfully do not care for what the Twins GM is doing

[Barton]

Lester/Crisp/Lowrie and another c prospect for Johan Santana?

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??

This new Twins GM wants the Yankees to give up Hughes (who alone is better than this garbage bin deal the sox are offering) PLUS Melky Cabrera (who is better than Coco Crisp) PLUS Ian Kennedy (who is better than Jon Lester) all for Johan Santana.

What in the facking hell is going on there in Minnesota????

That GM can kiss my stinkin a** if he wants Hughes, Melky AND Kennedy. And it reaks of something fishy if he settles for this proposed sawx deal of Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/other prospect. That deal is a frickin disgrace.

How the hell does that little dipstick GM demand Phil Hughes AND Ian Kennedy, and not even demand Bucholz for Santana? HOW IN THE HELL DOES THAT WORK?? And they're not even giving up Ellsbury either???

What in the fack?? Something is fishy if this goes down.

[AVM]

?? I was under the impression they wanted Ellsbury or Bucholz if not both added to Lester in order for the deal to work? Where'd you get the info on that offer?

[GimmeShelter]

Nothing can be believed until the deal if any is announced. The Twins are known for their scouting abilities so not sure why we are more qualified to challenge their decision.

Seems like Melky is their biggest issue thus they want Kennedy ar Jackson added.

[Thor99]

Or, maybe the rest of the free world isn't overvaluing prospects just because they're Yankees.

[Barton]

?? I was under the impression they wanted Ellsbury or Bucholz if not both added to Lester in order for the deal to work? Where'd you get the info on that offer?

Not once has Bucholz been mentioned as being potentially traded for Santana.

And it is absolutely ridiculous. We're offering Hughes (who's better than Bucholz) AND they still want Ian Kennedy too!!, yet they settle for Jon frickin Lester, a bag of crap in Coco Crisp, and 2 b prospects???

The Twins little dipstick GM is clueless.

[GimmeShelter]

Not once has Bucholz been mentioned as being potentially traded for Santana.

And it is absolutely ridiculous. We're offering Hughes (who's better than Bucholz) AND they still want Ian Kennedy too!!, yet they settle for Jon frickin Lester, a bag of crap in Coco Crisp, and 2 b prospects???

The Twins little dipstick GM is clueless.

Felt the same way when he traded for Nathan and Liriano.

[AVM]

Not once has Bucholz been mentioned as being potentially traded for Santana.

And it is absolutely ridiculous. We're offering Hughes (who's better than Bucholz) AND they still want Ian Kennedy too!!, yet they settle for Jon frickin Lester, a bag of crap in Coco Crisp, and 2 b prospects???

The Twins little dipstick GM is clueless.

It may have just been the media, but Im sure he's been mentioned, because I remember thinking he was the one I'd rather send off. I just dont have the feeling he's going to be a great starter one day.

Regardless, you are right about Coco Crisp--he can play pretty good D, but he's an absolute joke when it comes to the plate. I had been hearing they Twins wanted Ellsbury, Lester, Crisp, and a low level prospect. Whether you think of him as this good or not, the Red Sox view trading Ellsbury in the same way the Yanks do Joba--it aint happening.

In the end, Santana probably stays in Minnesota, because they're asking for too much imo.

[AVM]

Felt the same way when he traded for Nathan and Liriano.

Yeah, kinda hard to call the guy who pulled off one of the better deals in my lifetime a moron

[Barton]

The red sox couldnt make this trade in a f###ing video game. Thats how terrible this trade is for the Twins. Hughes [bY HIMSELF], is better than what the sox are offering in total. It wouldnt surprise me if this new twins GM goes and works for the sox in a few months. This is so lopsided of a trade its not even funny.

This is bull if it goes down. Something is crooked.

[Blackout]

Yeah, kinda hard to call the guy who pulled off one of the better deals in my lifetime a moron

he's not, that was their old GM

[Blackout]

Or, maybe the rest of the free world isn't overvaluing prospects just because they're Yankees.

crack kills

thor is sticking up for this trade, what a surprise

[PeterNorth09]

The red sox couldnt make this trade in a f###ing video game. Thats how terrible this trade is for the Twins. Hughes [bY HIMSELF], is better than what the sox are offering in total. It wouldnt surprise me if this new twins GM goes and works for the sox in a few months. This is so lopsided of a trade its not even funny.

This is bull if it goes down. Something is crooked.

It sounds like the Twins are playing hardball. I know it's a steep price to pay, Melky, Hughes AND Kennedy but Santana may very well be worth it plus do you really want to see the Red Sox have this rotation?:

Santana

Beckett

Schilling

Matsuzaka

Bucholz

The Red Sox are easily winning the next two WS with that rotation. Cashman should pull the trigger on Santana.

This is what our rotation could look like next year.

Santana

Wang

Pettitte

Joba Chamberlain

Mussina

All the Yankees would need is a decent set-up man for Mariano and they'd have a very realistic shot at winning the WS next year.

[GimmeShelter]

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 1:15pm: ESPN Peter Gammons says the Twins are trying to decide between a 3-for-1 (Ellsbury/Lowrie/Masterson) or a 4-for-1 (Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson). No contract negotiations with the Red Sox and Santana's agent have taken place yet.

[Thor99]

crack kills

thor is sticking up for this trade, what a surprise

Of course I am, if we can keep Bucholz and Ellsbury it's a win.

I'm just laughing at Yankee fans that think every prospect they have is going to be the best player ever.

Go back and look at Melky's numbers vs. Crisp's. Tell me how Melky is far and away better than Crisp. Remember to factor in Crisp's defensive superiority. It's not even close.

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

145 526 85 141 28 7 6 60 201 50 84 28 6 .330 .382 .268

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

150 545 66 149 24 8 8 73 213 43 68 13 5 .327 .391 .273

Who's who?

[anskyruben]

The pukes are about to RAPE the Twins, and the Twins are going to enjoy it. Sometimes I think these teams do crap like this just to prevent the Yankees from winning. This will go down as an all time robbery. No Red Sux fan can possibly tell me it's not. The Yankees need to stick to their guns and NOT include kennedy. Fawk the Twins.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Of course I am, if we can keep Bucholz and Ellsbury it's a win.

I'm just laughing at Yankee fans that think every prospect they have is going to be the best player ever.

Go back and look at Melky's numbers vs. Crisp's. Tell me how Melky is far and away better than Crisp. Remember to factor in Crisp's defensive superiority. It's not even close.

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

145 526 85 141 28 7 6 60 201 50 84 28 6 .330 .382 .268

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

150 545 66 149 24 8 8 73 213 43 68 13 5 .327 .391 .273

Who's who?

LOL...funny stuff. Coco's had 15 assists lifetime in his career. Melky had 14 assists just last year. I'll take Melky without blinking an eye and like Barton says...the Twins can go FO!

[Thor99]

LOL...funny stuff. Coco's had 15 assists lifetime in his career. Melky had 14 assists just last year. I'll take Melky without blinking an eye and like Barton says...the Twins can go FO!

Offensively, they're the same player. Defensively, Melky has a much better arm. However, Coco's superior range more than makes up for Melky's advantage in assists.

[Barton]

Offensively, they're the same player. Defensively, Melky has a much better arm. However, Coco's superior range more than makes up for Melky's advantage in assists.

Melky is 23, already a better hitter and he still has upside. Plus he's dirt cheap.

Crisp is maxed out at 29 and is vastly overpaid.

Big difference.

And dont try and tell me this garbage offer from the Sox is a good deal for the Twins. It is a hideous deal, easily the most lopsided trade in years.

[Thor99]

Melky is 23, already a better hitter and he still has upside. Plus he's dirt cheap.

Crisp is maxed out at 29 and is vastly overpaid.

Big difference.

And dont try and tell me this garbage offer from the Sox is a good deal for the Twins. It is a hideous deal, easily the most lopsided trade in years.

How is he a better hitter? Crisp is making $5 million a year, in today's market that's not overpaid.

Look at the deal this way, Hughes is a possible ace who has shown that he is average in the majors. He's also injury prone. After this season, is it possible that his worth isn't what it once was?

[Barton]

How is he a better hitter? Crisp is making $5 million a year, in today's market that's not overpaid.

Look at the deal this way, Hughes is a possible ace who has shown that he is average in the majors. He's also injury prone. After this season, is it possible that his worth isn't what it once was?

And Lester had cancer a year ago, so I guess he should have ZERO value because its possible that he could have it again. Great logic, thor.

And how did Hughes show he was average in the majors? By posting a 4.3 era while pitching not at 100%, not to mention at 21 years old? LOL. The last month and a 1/2 as Hughes got healthy, he had an era under 3 and obtw won a playoff game. But yea, Casey Fossum......I mean Jon Lester, has just as much value. Surrre.

[Thor99]

And Lester had cancer a year ago, so I guess he should have ZERO value because its possible that he could have it again. Great logic, thor.

And how did Hughes show he was average in the majors? By posting a 4.3 era while pitching not at 100%, not to mention at 21 years old? LOL. The last month and a 1/2 as Hughes got healthy, he had an era under 3 and obtw won a playoff game. But yea, Casey Fossum......I mean Jon Lester, has just as much value. Surrre.

My point was that we're all overvaluing our own prospects, while devaluing the other teams.

Arguments can be made for and against all proposals.

[Lil Bit Special]

I think the Yankee offer is better. Especially if the sox include Crisp instead of Ellsbury.

But we're not the ones who have professionals evaluating these players on a daily basis. I think they know a little more about the strengths and weaknesses of players than we do.

and to claim the Twins are doing this to screw over the yankees is a joke. They are trying to get the best combination of players for their organization. Plain and simple. The Yankees havent won in 7 years. Sox have won twice since then. Wouldnt it make more sense to trade him to the Yankees since the Sox are already set for a return to the playoffs next year? DOnt the twins want a shot at the world series too?? It would be easier going through NY than Boston.

[Lil Bit Special]

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/04/yankees-will-not-change-their-offer/

Just spoke to a Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:

The Y.E.W.C.B.T said that Brian Cashman has made his final offer and will not toss in Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson. That would seem to favor the Red Sox but the Dodgers and Angels are now getting in the mix with the Yankees on the outskirts.

This hillbilly nightmare The Winter Meetings end on Thursday morning, so there is little chance that Santana will be officially traded by then given that a contract extension would have to be negotiated.

The Yankees, for all of the deadline talk, remain open to the Twins coming back to them. But the Twins seem to love Jon Lester and aren

[Lil Bit Special]

3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons

[Barton]

Other GMs and baseball people are laughing at the Twins. Laughing.

[Bob]

I'm rooting for Santana to go to the Dodgers. I don't want him. If Boston does not get him, we're competitive right now. If they do get him, we'll wait a year while these young pitchers get experience.

I want to see what a Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Wang plus one rotation can do for about seven straight years.

[uart]

Felt the same way when he traded for Nathan and Liriano.

He did? I thought they had a new GM?

[CrazyCarl40]

It's now Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Kalish. Too rich for my blood. I'd pass.

[GimmeShelter]

He did? I thought they had a new GM?

The GM only signs off...it's still the same organizational scouts that have been in their system for years that give their approval/opinion. The Twins always seem to have a keen eye for young lower minor league level talent. That's why Melky does not interest them in the least as a big piece of a Johan trade.

[Thor99]

It's now Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Kalish. Too rich for my blood. I'd pass.

I make that deal in a heartbeat.

Santana

Beckett

Schilling

Dice-K

Bucholz

That is a sick rotation.

[CrazyCarl40]

I make that deal in a heartbeat.

Santana

Beckett

Schilling

Dice-K

Bucholz

That is a sick rotation.

It takes 3 of our top 10 prospects. I have faith in Theo and company to not leave the cupboard empty, but it's getting a little crazy. Plus I have a man crush on Lester, who I feel once gets command will be a dynamite hurler.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I'm rooting for Santana to go to the Dodgers. I don't want him. If Boston does not get him, we're competitive right now. If they do get him, we'll wait a year while these young pitchers get experience.

I want to see what a Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Wang plus one rotation can do for about seven straight years.

I'm with you...funny how several years ago when the Yanks were winning titles, all you heard from Sox fans (and others) how the Yanks bought their championships...hey Sox fans, you done spending after you land Santana or are you going on another shopping spree?

[Thor99]

I'm with you...funny how several years ago when the Yanks were winning titles, all you heard from Sox fans (and others) how the Yanks bought their championships...hey Sox fans, you done spending after you land Santana or are you going on another shopping spree?

Any smart fan knows that the Yankees won those titles through shrewd trades and good drafting. O'niell, Brosius and Cone just to name a few.

When the Yankees truly tried to buy a title, it failed horribly.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Any smart fan knows that the Yankees won those titles through shrewd trades and good drafting. O'niell, Brosius and Cone just to name a few.

When the Yankees truly tried to buy a title, it failed horribly.

I know it...but, you have to admit, it was and is still out there. And you're right, money doesn't buy titles...Yanks have put the face on that one.

[anskyruben]

The tune of the BIG MARKET song changes once NY isn't involved anymore. I thought that gangster Lucky Luccino in Red Sux ownership said that they couldn't compete with Yankee spending ?