I respectfully do not care for what the Twins GM is doing

[Lil Bit Special]

The tune of the BIG MARKET song changes once NY isn't involved anymore. I thought that gangster Lucky Luccino in Red Sux ownership said that they couldn't compete with Yankee spending ?

and then they figured out how to gouge fans for more money...

1. convince them they are a part of "redsox nation"

2. promote the hell out of it so everyone uses this tired phrase.

3. charge fans of the "nation" money so they can have proof they are part of Red Sox Nation.

4. jack up the prices 9%.

5. keep fans thinking they are part of something special and build demand for the team. drive up prices again.

6. actually win it all so fans dont notice they are spending over $200 just to attend a game in may (parking + tickets +beer +sausage + souvenir wally the green monstah= mortgage not getting paid and large amounts of foreclosures in new england.)

7. win it again so fans dont care they are being monetarily raped every game they attend (and im sure NESN has jacked up their carrier fees to the cable companies= more $$$$$)

Its too bad Theo and the Sox kissed and made up. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done without boy genius.

That what sore losers do. They blame things like "the yankees can spend more money than us" and calling them names like "evil empire"

funny how that all went away after the sox learned how to trade and sign FA's and open the checkbook. Remember, sore losers always blame the sucessful team instead of trying to emulate them.

[anskyruben]

and then they figured out how to gouge fans for more money...

1. convince them they are a part of "redsox nation"

2. promote the hell out of it so everyone uses this tired phrase.

3. charge fans of the "nation" money so they can have proof they are part of Red Sox Nation.

4. jack up the prices 9%.

5. keep fans thinking they are part of something special and build demand for the team. drive up prices again.

6. actually win it all so fans dont notice they are spending over $200 just to attend a game in may (parking + tickets +beer +sausage + souvenir wally the green monstah= mortgage not getting paid and large amounts of foreclosures in new england.)

7. win it again so fans dont care they are being monetarily raped every game they attend (and im sure NESN has jacked up their carrier fees to the cable companies= more $$$$$)

Its too bad Theo and the Sox kissed and made up. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done without boy genius.

That what sore losers do. They blame things like "the yankees can spend more money than us" and calling them names like "evil empire"

funny how that all went away after the sox learned how to trade and sign FA's and open the checkbook. Remember, sore losers always blame the sucessful team instead of trying to emulate them.

That gangster tried pulling a similar horse and pony show here in San Diego, but it didn't fly. He took his sideshow with him to Boston. I luagh when I click through NESN and I see some reject on there that he used as a shoe shine buy here in san Diego. he now has them all over their network and the organization. He cried about the Yankees here when they beat him in 98. The jackass spent days crying to the papers about how badly they were treated in yankee stadium for games 1 and 2. Then he packs his bags in his VW bug with his 15 midgets and drives over to Boston. Happy to see him doing his act there. No one deserves him more than that town.

[haggis]

That gangster tried pulling a similar horse and pony show here in San Diego, but it didn't fly. He took his sideshow with him to Boston. I luagh when I click through NESN and I see some reject on there that he used as a shoe shine buy here in san Diego. he now has them all over their network and the organization. He cried about the Yankees here when they beat him in 98. The jackass spent days crying to the papers about how badly they were treated in yankee stadium for games 1 and 2. Then he packs his bags in his VW bug with his 15 midgets and drives over to Boston. Happy to see him doing his act there. No one deserves him more than that town.

Who is laughing harder?

Bitter yankee fans?

World Series winning Red Sox Nation fans?

[Barton]

Who is laughing harder?

Bitter yankee fans?

World Series winning Red Sox Nation fans?

Not sure why you quoted that particular post to say that, but you'll still never be on par with the Yankees prestige. Ever. Kinda sucks dont it?

[haggis]

Not sure why you quoted that particular post to say that, but you'll still never be on par with the Yankees prestige. Ever. Kinda sucks dont it?

Read the post anskyjelly said he laughs when he sees the guys on NESN. I just wonder who is laughing harder. No biggie.

Btw, in relation to this thread: the first yankee offer was the best, the second Red Sox offer is now BY FAR the best, but you undervalue Lester immensely. He has proved he can win on the biggest stage: The World Series. Quality, young pitcher.

[Barton]

Read the post anskyjelly said he laughs when he sees the guys on NESN. I just wonder who is laughing harder. No biggie.

Btw, in relation to this thread: the first yankee offer was the best, the second Red Sox offer is now BY FAR the best, but you undervalue Lester immensely. He has proved he can win on the biggest stage: The World Series. Quality, young pitcher.

1 start proves that? wow, uh no it doesnt. Lester will never be anything close to Hughes. And the rest are all spare parts. It would be an insane trade for the Twins to make because its not even close to the best offer that they can get from the Sox (or the Yankees). Thats what makes this so ridiculous.

[JonEJet]

I can see Yankee fans over valueing a guy like melky...he's young, clutch and a great outfielder. On the other hand I can see other fans of other teams saying he's just another guy

But Hughes Kennedy and Joba are all studs. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I hope this trade passes

Now if Ben Sheets were available, all bets are off...that dude has the goods

[DaBrick Wall]

It's now Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Kalish. Too rich for my blood. I'd pass.

The fact that you wouldn't do that deal is laughable. The only prospect of real value in that trade is Lowrie, who could be a decent major league SS. Lester and Crisp suck, Masterson is a one-pitch pitcher with a low strikeout rate, and Kalish is years away from the majors with too few ABs under his belt to make a real judgment. All this for the best player in baseball, without giving up your two best prospects.

While the Yankees have to pay the price of two of their top 3 prospects and a young, cheap CF who still may get better.

[DaBrick Wall]

Read the post anskyjelly said he laughs when he sees the guys on NESN. I just wonder who is laughing harder. No biggie.

Btw, in relation to this thread: the first yankee offer was the best, the second Red Sox offer is now BY FAR the best, but you undervalue Lester immensely. He has proved he can win on the biggest stage: The World Series. Quality, young pitcher.

Because everyone knows the way to judge a player is on 5 2/3 innings of pitching.

[DaBrick Wall]

Or, maybe the rest of the free world isn't overvaluing prospects just because they're Yankees.

You obviously don't know how to value prospects then.

Oh, and for the record: everyone at the Winter Meetings is "shocked" that the Twins are considering the Sox package over the Yankees'. They say Hughes alone is better than the Sox package.

[Sharrow]

Money can't buy you championships, it just buys you a shot to win one each year by getting you into the playoffs (if spent the right way).

Anyway, I don't understand why anyone would want either Melky or Crisp as their starting centerfielder. Especially Crisp. Defensive CF are dime a dozen, and he's making $$$.

[anskyruben]

Read the post anskyjelly said he laughs when he sees the guys on NESN. I just wonder who is laughing harder. No biggie.

Btw, in relation to this thread: the first yankee offer was the best, the second Red Sox offer is now BY FAR the best, but you undervalue Lester immensely. He has proved he can win on the biggest stage: The World Series. Quality, young pitcher.

I'm laughing harder. I've seen my team win more champiosnhips than you ever will. I also burst into an uncontrolable laughter when I remember that Hitter.com died with zero rings.

[haggis]

I'm laughing harder. I've seen my team win more champiosnhips than you ever will. I also burst into an uncontrolable laughter when I remember that Hitter.com died with zero rings.

And my kids have seen more championships that your kids. Stop living in the past. This is a go-to comeback I'm seeing by all yankee fans since 2004. "Oh yeah!? Well, well, well, my team won may more than your team even before we were born!" Wind yer neck in.

Barton: are you seriously saying that Hughes is better than Lester? Come on! That is even a stretch for you. Their stats from this year are almost identical. And that is with him overcoming cancer! Cabrera > Crisp? Maybe. But don't think Hughes is an ace as he is unproven.

[Bugg]

1 start proves that? wow, uh no it doesnt. Lester will never be anything close to Hughes. And the rest are all spare parts. It would be an insane trade for the Twins to make because its not even close to the best offer that they can get from the Sox (or the Yankees). Thats what makes this so ridiculous.

Agreed. If the Twins don't get Bucholz and/or Ellsbury, they're getting fleeced.

But you know what-so be it. Who's to say Beckett, Schilling, Dice K are going to hold up through 2008? The Yankees have beaten Santana's team in a postseason game. He's a great pitcher, but this reminds me a bit of the Big Unit deal. Granted, Santana is younger and in his prime. But his number of HRs yielded and walks bumped up this year, somewhta dramatically. Add in a green monster, I dunno. May be we're better off keeping the young pitchers than doing this.

Santana by ther #s

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml

Unit-

http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml

[GimmeShelter]

The fact that you wouldn't do that deal is laughable. The only prospect of real value in that trade is Lowrie, who could be a decent major league SS. Lester and Crisp suck, Masterson is a one-pitch pitcher with a low strikeout rate, and Kalish is years away from the majors with too few ABs under his belt to make a real judgment. All this for the best player in baseball, without giving up your two best prospects.

While the Yankees have to pay the price of two of their top 3 prospects and a young, cheap CF who still may get better.

Masterson is 22 and upon being promoted to AA last season he started to put things together- struck out 59 in 58 innings so the low K rate you mention is unfounded.

He also gets 2 1/2 ground ball outs to every fly out. So that makes him a prospect whether you like him or not.

Lester also is 11-2 in the majors with a comparable ERA and K rate to Hughes. As you mention Lowrie is considered a future SS with pop.

Crisp = Melky just at 5 mill which isn't insane.

Yankee fan need to get past the fact that Hughes plus nothing isn't the best offer the Twins have received.

BTW Bugg, Santana won 2 CY Youngs in the homer dome in Minny.

[haggis]

Masterson is 22 and upon being promoted to AA last season he started to put things together- struck out 59 in 58 innings so the low K rate you mention is unfounded.

He also gets 2 1/2 ground ball outs to every fly out. So that makes him a prospect whether you like him or not.

Lester also is 11-2 in the majors with a comparable ERA and K rate to Hughes. As you mention Lowrie is considered a future SS with pop.

Crisp = Melky just at 5 mill which isn't insane.

Yankee fan need to get past the fact that Hughes plus nothing isn't the best offer the Twins have received.

BTW Bugg, Santana won 2 CY Youngs in the homer dome in Minny.

Solid post.

[Barton]

If you guys want to put Lester on the same level as Hughes, go right ahead, lol.

[anskyruben]

And my kids have seen more championships that your kids. Stop living in the past. This is a go-to comeback I'm seeing by all yankee fans since 2004. "Oh yeah!? Well, well, well, my team won may more than your team even before we were born!" Wind yer neck in.

Barton: are you seriously saying that Hughes is better than Lester? Come on! That is even a stretch for you. Their stats from this year are almost identical. And that is with him overcoming cancer! Cabrera > Crisp? Maybe. But don't think Hughes is an ace as he is unproven.

Then do me a favor, STFU and don't compare your Johnny come lately franchise to the greastest in all of sports. Got it ?

[Barton]

And my kids have seen more championships that your kids. Stop living in the past. This is a go-to comeback I'm seeing by all yankee fans since 2004. "Oh yeah!? Well, well, well, my team won may more than your team even before we were born!" Wind yer neck in.

Barton: are you seriously saying that Hughes is better than Lester? Come on! That is even a stretch for you. Their stats from this year are almost identical. And that is with him overcoming cancer! Cabrera > Crisp? Maybe. But don't think Hughes is an ace as he is unproven.

WOW

Maybe you were paying absolutely no attention to minor league baseball in 2007 - Hughes was the #1 prospect in the entire league! Yes, he is better than Lester and by a WIDE MARGIN. The fact that you find that be a stretch is absolutely hilarious, it really is.

[Thai Jet]

1 start proves that? wow, uh no it doesnt. Lester will never be anything close to Hughes. And the rest are all spare parts. It would be an insane trade for the Twins to make because its not even close to the best offer that they can get from the Sox (or the Yankees). Thats what makes this so ridiculous.

Only time will tell.

[Thai Jet]

You obviously don't know how to value prospects then.

Oh, and for the record: everyone at the Winter Meetings is "shocked" that the Twins are considering the Sox package over the Yankees'. They say Hughes alone is better than the Sox package.

Everyone?

[Thai Jet]

If you guys want to put Lester on the same level as Hughes, go right ahead, lol.

Thanks !!

[Thai Jet]

Then do me a favor, STFU and don't compare your Johnny come lately franchise to the greastest in all of sports. Got it ?

He's got a point. In sports it's "what have you done lately"? The Yanks come up short there.

[mbn007]

It's now Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Kalish. Too rich for my blood. I'd pass.

If I'm the Bosox, I do this deal right now. Santana replace Lester by a mile, Buckholtz replaces anyone else in the rotation, when the time comes. Ellsbury replace Crisp. Only issue is Lowrie, and you will find someone to play SS, in a pinch.

[DaBrick Wall]

Masterson is 22 and upon being promoted to AA last season he started to put things together- struck out 59 in 58 innings so the low K rate you mention is unfounded.

He also gets 2 1/2 ground ball outs to every fly out. So that makes him a prospect whether you like him or not.

Lester also is 11-2 in the majors with a comparable ERA and K rate to Hughes. As you mention Lowrie is considered a future SS with pop.

Crisp = Melky just at 5 mill which isn't insane.

Yankee fan need to get past the fact that Hughes plus nothing isn't the best offer the Twins have received.

BTW Bugg, Santana won 2 CY Youngs in the homer dome in Minny.

Masterson has a 7.2 K/9 rate over his entire career. Use the entire body of work, not just a select amount of it. He has a good sinker but nothing else. He's a poor, poor man's Chien-Ming Wang right now.

Don't use records to support your argument either. Lester would be 3-11 on the Twins in the same time span. He has a 4.7 ERA in the majors. The only thing he has proven is that he sucks in the majors. Hughes has dominated every level of the minors and Lester hasn't. Hughes projects as a #1 starter. Lester projects as no more than a 3. Scouts say that Hughes ALONE is better than the Sox package.

And Melky is not Crisp, not at all. Melky still has some time to fill out--he's 23. He's young and cheap. If you can have the same player for $350,000 or $5 million, which would you take?

[Thor99]

You obviously don't know how to value prospects then.

Oh, and for the record: everyone at the Winter Meetings is "shocked" that the Twins are considering the Sox package over the Yankees'. They say Hughes alone is better than the Sox package.

Really? Everyone? You've talked to people at the winter meetings? That's a sweet gig. Who was it that said that Hughes alone is better than the Sox package. I'd like to know who that was. Never mind, it was a delusional Yankee fan.

[GimmeShelter]

Masterson has a 7.2 K/9 rate over his entire career. Use the entire body of work, not just a select amount of it. He has a good sinker but nothing else. He's a poor, poor man's Chien-Ming Wang right now.

Don't use records to support your argument either. Lester would be 3-11 on the Twins in the same time span. He has a 4.7 ERA in the majors. The only thing he has proven is that he sucks in the majors. Hughes has dominated every level of the minors and Lester hasn't. Hughes projects as a #1 starter. Lester projects as no more than a 3. Scouts say that Hughes ALONE is better than the Sox package.

And Melky is not Crisp, not at all. Melky still has some time to fill out--he's 23. He's young and cheap. If you can have the same player for $350,000 or $5 million, which would you take?

LOL...everyone sucks unless they are in pinstripes. Masterson improves last season but it is simply to be disregarded while we are to blindly believe that Melky has this huge talent spurt ahead of him. No matter what Hughes "projects" to be, his Major League numbers are still similiar to Lesters. Again, get over the fact that Melky is not regarded as highly around baseball as he is by Yankee fans. The only reason he sees the field is because the Damon signing was a mistake.

[nj meadowlands]

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons

• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.

[mbn007]

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons

[Blackout]

LOL...everyone sucks unless they are in pinstripes. Masterson improves last season but it is simply to be disregarded while we are to blindly believe that Melky has this huge talent spurt ahead of him. No matter what Hughes "projects" to be, his Major League numbers are still similiar to Lesters. Again, get over the fact that Melky is not regarded as highly around baseball as he is by Yankee fans. The only reason he sees the field is because the Damon signing was a mistake.

the damon signing wasn't so bad, he's actually one of our more "clutch" hitters

[GimmeShelter]

the damon signing wasn't so bad, he's actually one of our more "clutch" hitters

Agree but he's no longer able to play the position you signed him for at a above average level.

[Blackout]

Agree but he's no longer able to play the position you signed him for at a above average level.

if you want to look at a mistake, it was that damned Giambi* signing, if we didn't make it so freakin long...

[GimmeShelter]

if you want to look at a mistake, it was that damned Giambi* signing, if we didn't make it so freakin long...

It's only money which is nada to the Yanks.....AL is short on 1B overall....not sure that Giambi can play ther regularly anymore.

[Barton]

Phil Hughes' minor league numbers: 2.09 era, 0.86 WHIP, 311 Ks in 275 innings, 66 walks in 275 innings

Jon Lesters' minor league numbers: 3.33 era, 1.31 WHIP, 446 Ks in 486 innings, 203 BB in 486 innings

Guys, its not even close. Hughes was and is an elite prospect. Lester doesnt even hold a candle to him. Small major league sample size numbers are just that, small sample sizes. And btw Hughes has better MLB numbers than Lester and he did it at less than 100%, not to mention 3 years younger than Lester. I cant believe I actually have to debate this.

Hughes >>>>>>>>>>> Lester

[DaBrick Wall]

Really? Everyone? You've talked to people at the winter meetings? That's a sweet gig. Who was it that said that Hughes alone is better than the Sox package. I'd like to know who that was. Never mind, it was a delusional Yankee fan.

Jon Heyman was on WFAN yesterday saying he talked to multiple execs who were SHOCKED the Twins were considering the Sox deal over the Yanks'. And apparently the Twins agree, since their little "deal" they were about to consummate yesterday was nothing more than a smokescreen. And you're the delusional one if you think Lester is anything CLOSE to the prospect that Hughes is.