After this game, I am more confident for the future.

[#27TheDominator]

Not sure of the one that Clemens got killed on but at least two were 100% LG. One on Clement and one on Montgomery. No sense adding a suspect RT to that.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

The Jets played their hearts out today and the defense really showed up. Mangini is the real deal. Once we get the talent to compete with the elite teams, watch out.

Amen........ Preach on brotha Barton

[Irish Jet]

Mangini is the real deal

I really fail to realise how you've come to this conclusion.

[#27TheDominator]

If I knew that changing QBs would turn Barton into this sunshine and roses fruitcake I'd have been all for team Clemens from day 1.

[pjam76]

I really fail to realise how you've come to this conclusion.

It's people with an agenda. I guess you might as well say Cam is the real deal in Miami now since he won his first game and the Dolphins played their hearts out in a win today.

I hope the Jets improve next year, but at this point, Mangini is a one year wonder more than anything else. THese stupid moral victores mean nothing for the future. That's all the Jets ever seem to get. MOral victories. That playoff loss to the Pats was supposed to be a moral victory. Yeah a 3-13 or 4-12 season isn't exactly saying much for that moral victory.

[Irish Jet]

It's people with an agenda. I guess you might as well say Cam is the real deal in Miami now since he won his first game and the Dolphins played their hearts out in a win today.

I hope the Jets improve next year, but at this point, Mangini is a one year wonder more than anything else. THese stupid morale victores mean nothing for the future. That's all the Jets ever seem to get. MOral victories. That playoff loss to the Pats was supposed to be a moral victory. Yeah a 3-13 or 4-12 season isn't exactly saying much for that moral victory.

I'm not saying he's a one year wonder but FFS he's been terrible this season and was again today. I can't get over what he was doing with Smith on 4th down, it's just unbelivable. Chad played well but IMO Mangini didn't show enough trust in him. Also the fact that we STILL have a certain #81 on that squad makes me really doubt this guy.

[Barton]

Um that kind of defeats the point that teams need a great OL and great WR's to win. And if I'm not mistaken, didn't HOF WR Harrison miss most of this season as well as their #3 WR leave for another team and one of their starting TEs?

So all this mumbo jumbo about a great OL is nonesense if you have a HOF QB?

Great, so I guess I have to hope KC turns into a HOF QB. So far I'm not sold. Even as bad as Manning was in his rookie year, with what 29 picks or something, he still threw like 26 TDs for a bad 3-13 team.

Of course teams need a good OL, but great teams find ways to replace players. So far the Jets seem more known for having no clue how to replace the avg Kendall.

You DON'T need great WRs or a great OL to win if you have a HOF QB.

Colts Oline is solid, Mannings quick decisions and pocket awareness make them look far better than they actually are. Ditto the Patriots Oline w/Tom Brady.

Obviously HOF QBs are few and far between, so for the other 30 QBs in the league you do need great talent around them. Manning and Brady dont need great talent around them, they're special players.

[Irish Jet]

You DON'T need great WRs or a great OL to win if you have a HOF QB.

Colts Oline is solid, Mannings quick decisions and pocket awareness make them look far better than they actually are. Ditto the Patriots Oline w/Tom Brady.

Obviously HOF QBs are few and far between, so for the other 30 QBs in the league you do need great talent around them. Manning and Brady dont need great talent around them, they're special players.

Manning has had Reggie Wayne at WR all year. He is an elite WR IMO.

I agree though, they do need good O-lines though. That is something both Manning and Brady have always had.

[pjam76]

You DON'T need great WRs or a great OL to win if you have a HOF QB.

Colts Oline is solid, Mannings quick decisions and pocket awareness make them look far better than they actually are. Ditto the Patriots Oline w/Tom Brady.

Obviously HOF QBs are few and far between, so for the other 30 QBs in the league you do need great talent around them. Manning and Brady dont need great talent around them, they're special players.

You are correct except the problem is Manning, Favre, Brady, Steve Young, Aikman, Montana, Jim Kelly, Elway, and so on are Super Bowl winners or losers and HOF QB's.

McNabb, McNair, Warner, Bledsoe, were pro bowl QB's or were MVP's or runner ups.

The Ravens had one of the best defenses of all time and the Bucs were one of the top defenses for years with HOF or pro bowl players.

If you look at that, either KC needs to become a HOF or MVP type QB or the defense needs to be one of the best of all time or at least one of the best of that era.

Right now the Jets don't even look close to any of that.

[pjam76]

Manning has had Reggie Wayne at WR all year. He is an elite WR IMO.

I agree though, they do need good O-lines though. That is something both Manning and Brady have always had.

Like I said i guess you missed the fact that the Colts OL has had 4 different players from a year ago. Practice Squad players, rookies, and other backups starting for them. If you call that a great OL, then you have to say the COLTs front office knows how to pick players while teams like the Jets have no clue.

When a team has 4 new OL and you still say the OL is good, that's not building a great OL, that's knowing how to find players who will be good and a team who could care less who starts cause they always find players to replace other players.

yeah if the Colts had the same OL for years, you would be correct. But how many teams have the same OL year after year? You need to know how to replace players, you can't become a team dependent on the same 4 OL to be any good. And you sure can't become a team who can't even replace Pete Kendall.

[#27TheDominator]

You are correct except the problem is Manning, Favre, Brady, Steve Young, Aikman, Montana, Jim Kelly, Elway, and so on are Super Bowl winners or losers and HOF QB's.

McNabb, McNair, Warner, Bledsoe, were pro bowl QB's or were MVP's or runner ups.

The Ravens had one of the best defenses of all time and the Bucs were one of the top defenses for years with HOF or pro bowl players.

If you look at that, either KC needs to become a HOF or MVP type QB or the defense needs to be one of the best of all time or at least one of the best of that era.

Right now the Jets don't even look close to any of that.

Big ****ing deal. What do you do? Pack it in and say **** the season, we don't have a HOF qb? Say we can't have a top D, screw it, I surrender? You try to start the best qb that you can and try to develop the best D. That's the only way you'll get either. Not by sitting on your ass whining like a bitch because you don't have Brady or Peyton under center or the '85 Bears 4-6.

[Irish Jet]

Like I said i guess you missed the fact that the Colts OL has had 4 different players from a year ago. Practice Squad players, rookies, and other backups starting for them. If you call that a great OL, then you have to say the COLTs front office knows how to pick players while teams like the Jets have no clue.

When a team has 4 new OL and you still say the OL is good, that's not building a great OL, that's knowing how to find players who will be good.

One thing about the Colts O-line is that they always go after players that fit their system. Jeff saturday for example was a total nobody in this league but the olts brought him in, felt he suited their system and he's excelled ever since. Also they are incredibly well coached.

[pjam76]

Big ****ing deal. What do you do? Pack it in and say **** the season, we don't have a HOF qb? Say we can't have a top D, screw it, I surrender? You try to start the best qb that you can and try to develop the best D. That's the only way you'll get either. Not by sitting on your ass whining like a bitch because you don't have Brady or Peyton under center or the '85 Bears 4-6.

So I should become like you and cheer about a 4-12 season? Gee go shoot up some more.

[#27TheDominator]

So I should become like you and cheer about a 4-12 season? Gee go shoot up some more.

If you don't enjoy the game don't watch. I'm not happy with what they've done, but I don't think that you should throw the team under the bus because they aren't a top D or have a HOF qb. How many teams do? I'd rather we were where a team like say Jacksonville is now, but they don't have the top D of the ages or a HOF qb. Should their fans stop rooting?

[pjam76]

If you don't enjoy the game don't watch. I'm not happy with what they've done, but I don't think that you should throw the team under the bus because they aren't a top D or have a HOF qb. How many teams do? I'd rather we were where a team like say Jacksonville is now, but they don't have the top D of the ages or a HOF qb. Should their fans stop rooting?

Who is saying to stop rooting for a team? Rooting for a team isn't the same as saying the team looks light years away from being a contender.

And the Jags might not have a top defense, but they sure have a very good defense. But then again, how are the Jags any different than the Jets? They always are that up and coming team yet they never cross that hurdle. They missed the playoffs last year, might make the playoffs this year. They made the playoffs two seasons ago, got blown out in the wild card game. I'd rather be like the Colts or Patriots or even the Eagles earlier this decade. Teams that had a shot at getting to a SB most years. It might not always happen, but there is a shot.

I've seen the Jags type of teams. It's called the Jets during the past how many years. They might make the playoffs every other year, but even when they do, they never really win and then struggle the next year. Why would I want the Jets to be like the Jags.. They've been that team already.

[#27TheDominator]

Who is saying to stop rooting for a team? Rooting for a team isn't the same as saying the team looks light years away from being a contender.

And the Jags might not have a top defense, but they sure have a very good defense. But then again, how are the Jags any different than the Jets? They always are that up and coming team yet they never cross that hurdle. They missed the playoffs last year, might make the playoffs this year. They made the playoffs two seasons ago, got blown out in the wild card game. I'd rather be like the Colts or Patriots or even the Eagles earlier this decade. Teams that had a shot at getting to a SB most years. It might not always happen, but there is a shot.

I've seen the Jags type of teams. It's called the Jets during the past how many years. They might make the playoffs every other year, but even when they do, they never really win and then struggle the next year. Why would I want the Jets to be like the Jags.. They've been that team already.

You want to root for a team that has a chance to win the super bowl every year? What is the solution? There is only one. Go become a frontrunner and root for the Pats or Colts. This isn't a top franchise. They have given Mangini the chance to develop one. So far he has taken a huge jump forward and a huge stop back. IMO they have the approximate number of wins I'd have expected after two years, they just got them in the wrong order.

Do you think you are some kind of prophet for saying that you'd rather the Jets were run like the Steelers or Cowboys? We all would. You want to be like the Colts or Pats? My hero, there are 32 teams, they aren't all good.

[pjam76]

You want to root for a team that has a chance to win the super bowl every year? What is the solution? There is only one. Go become a frontrunner and root for the Pats or Colts. This isn't a top franchise. They have given Mangini the chance to develop one. So far he has taken a huge jump forward and a huge stop back. IMO they have the approximate number of wins I'd have expected after two years, they just got them in the wrong order.

Do you think you are some kind of prophet for saying that you'd rather the Jets were run like the Steelers or Cowboys? We all would. You want to be like the Colts or Pats? My hero, there are 32 teams, they aren't all good.

Rooting for a team is one thing, hoping the team becomes a legit contender is one thing, but accepting that they just suck and just throwing your hands up in the air as if they might always suck means your more a moron than anything else. I mean hey, I guess you still root for George Bush and claim he has potential.

If you live in a town with one pizza joint and the pizza sucks, you might have to go there, but it doesn't mean you just throw your hands up in the air and accept it. Sometimes people have to be brighter than a nail. Just because your a Jets fan doesn't mean you smile in a 4-12 season and say, hey they suck but who cares. That sounds like a person who really isn't a fan, just a person who got handed down tickets. It's like they say, people who are married but brag about never fighting or arguing are normally the people who are cheating on one another and don't give a damn. It's easy not to complain or care if you really don't care. People complain cause they do care and want things to turn around.

[#27TheDominator]

Rooting for a team is one thing, hoping the team becomes a legit contender is one thing, but accepting that they just suck and just throwing your hands up in the air as if they might always suck means your more a moron than anything else. I mean hey, I guess you still root for George Bush and claim he has potential.

If you live in a town with one pizza joint and the pizza sucks, you might have to go there, but it doesn't mean you just throw your hands up in the air and accept it. Sometimes people have to be brighter than a nail. Just because your a Jets fan doesn't mean you smile in a 4-12 season and say, hey they suck but who cares. That sounds like a person who really isn't a fan, just a person who got handed down tickets. It's like they say, people who are married but brag about never fighting or arguing are normally the people who are cheating on one another and don't give a damn. It's easy not to complain or care if you really don't care. People complain cause they do care and want things to turn around.

Do you want a tissue?

I complain too, but I complain about specific mistakes I've seen and talk about ways to improve. I don't don't just sit around crying "Woe is me! The Jets aren't a perennial contender!"