Clemens.....the future?

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Draft Matt Ryan..............hahaha:sarc:

[Sperm Edwards]

Bring in a vet? We already brought in a vet this year...Chad Pennington. And if memory serves me right, he beat the snot out of KC in training camp.

We need some fresh meat in here at the QB position...I've soured on both of these guys.

As I recall, he did not beat the snot out of him in tc.

But Clemens looks like crap so far. It's still early, but there's something else. He seems to be taking a lot more OFF the ball than earlier. Like he's being coached to do CP touch-passes instead of his strength. He was throwing the ball much, MUCH harder in Baltimore & other games.

It's almost as if we replaced Chad b/c of his lack of vertical game potential & then put in Clemens...only to teach and gameplan for him to play exactly the same way Chad was. Minus Chad's experience & better accuracy with those types of passes of course.

I don't know. Chad wasn't the answer & the idea was to put Clemens in to find out if he was instead of pissing away '08 finding out. The worst of all of them has occurred: (1) we stuck with Chad for too long; (2) Clemens has sucked but has shown just enough flashes to not give up hope 100% on him.

So we still don't know, didn't find out this year, and had an awful season (it seems) for nothing.

[BwanaZulia]

Clemens is still a project, not a bonified leader or the future.

We should treat next year as his trial year. He gets to fight to become the starter, have a good backup ready to step up and see what he can do.

Before we get all crazy with the QB though, we have to fix the defense and offensive line in the FIRST HALF of the year.

No QB is going to survive back there or do a lick without protection.

BZ

[TheSage]

I ave said before that Chad has everything you'd want in a QB except the arm. There was at least one sideline pass he threw that should have been picked for a TD but the CB flubbed the catch. Don't know if KC was trying to make the pass or throw it away but can't use the one play as an indication of anything. He has the arm and seems cool under pressure-he moves the team and can eat up chunks of yardage. Is he the QB of the future? Maybe but you can't judge yet-he has the tools-the head? Maybe

Remeber it took Romo three years before he saw significant time and even Chad sat for a few years.

As the the Chines scholar said when asked about the effect of the American Revolutionary War on history--It is too early to tell

[DMaynard]

I am glad I don't judge talent the way most people do. They look at the initial statistics and results with no understanding of raw talent and no consideration for the million other things that effect a young player's development and draw their expert opinions. Well, I know a lot of people who thought Vince Young was the Messiah last year and Jay Cutler was nothing special. Early results can be misleading.

I believe Clemens has "it". If and when the Jets have a better offensive line and a couple of playmakers, he will be lighting it up. So, keep looking for the Jets QB of the future. It will be a pleasant surprise when you realize they already have him.

[#27TheDominator]

I am glad I don't judge talent the way most people do. They look at the initial statistics and results with no understanding of raw talent and no consideration for the million other things that effect a young player's development and draw their expert opinions. Well, I know a lot of people who thought Vince Young was the Messiah last year and Jay Cutler was nothing special. Early results can be misleading.

I believe Clemens has "it". If and when the Jets have a better offensive line and a couple of playmakers, he will be lighting it up. So, keep looking for the Jets QB of the future. It will be a pleasant surprise when you realize they already have him.

Forget it Sperm, DM has you beat for optimist of the year.

[DMaynard]

Forget it Sperm, DM has you beat for optimist of the year.

Not necessarily. Just able to judge talent before it is overly obvious (with all due modesty ).

[#27TheDominator]

Not necessarily. Just able to judge talent before it is overly obvious (with all due modesty ).

I don't know what you've seen, but I sure haven't seen "it". Aside from the end of the Ravens game I've seen very little. Neither this regime or are impressing me with your qb evaluations so far.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I am glad I don't judge talent the way most people do. They look at the initial statistics and results with no understanding of raw talent and no consideration for the million other things that effect a young player's development and draw their expert opinions. Well, I know a lot of people who thought Vince Young was the Messiah last year and Jay Cutler was nothing special. Early results can be misleading.

I believe Clemens has "it". If and when the Jets have a better offensive line and a couple of playmakers, he will be lighting it up. So, keep looking for the Jets QB of the future. It will be a pleasant surprise when you realize they already have him.

You know, I could swear a lot of fans were saying the same thing about Pennington...build around him and he will succeed. We've been doing this very thing since Namath and haven't hit the jackpot yet...but, if you think Clemens is that guy, more power to you. I haven't seen a hint of it yet. I could be wrong, but in my 5 decades of being a fan of this team, I've been pretty good on juding the QB position...it's been real easy.

[CobraVerde]

I am constantly amazed at how quickly some of you people change your tune or at the first site of adversity completely sh*t yourself. THE MAN WAS PLAYING A 13-0 TEAM AND WAS KNOCKED OUT ON THE SECOND PLAY CAUSE OUR OFFENSIVE LINE COULDN'T PROTECT HIM, And that is what your basing your idea that Clemens isn't the future?? This thread is simply pathetic...

[nico002]

Agreed, when I read this forum I think I'm watching comedy central, 99% of posters here are a complete joke.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Agreed, when I read this forum I think I'm watching comedy central, 99% of posters here are a complete joke.

And you are in what percent?

[nico002]

[DMaynard]

You know, I could swear a lot of fans were saying the same thing about Pennington...build around him and he will succeed. We've been doing this very thing since Namath and haven't hit the jackpot yet...but, if you think Clemens is that guy, more power to you. I haven't seen a hint of it yet. I could be wrong, but in my 5 decades of being a fan of this team, I've been pretty good on juding the QB position...it's been real easy.

And they were wrong about Pennington. His game is five yard passes. A great offensive line and fast, talented receivers would certainly make him better, but he would never be able to fully take advantage of it. I think Clemens has the tools, and with more experience, would play proportionally better to the talent that you give him.

[NIGHT STALKER]

And they were wrong about Pennington. His game is five yard passes. A great offensive line and fast, talented receivers would certainly make him better, but he would never be able to fully take advantage of it. I think Clemens has the tools, and with more experience, would play proportionally better to the talent that you give him.

Clemens is playing the same sort of game. Whether that is the product of the system, I don't know...but, that's the game we are playing. He's played less than Pennington, has thrown more interceptions, has only a 50% completion percentage and has been sacked more times. More power to you if you see something better coming from him...like I said, I don't see it.

Now, if you see better things from Clemens on the horizon, tell me what you've seen thus far to come to that conclusion? Damn, if Pennington had those stats we would be roasting him over the coals (and we did)...even the freaking fins benched their heir apparent with comparable stats.

[DMaynard]

Clemens is playing the same sort of game. Whether that is the product of the system, I don't know...but, that's the game we are playing. He's played less than Pennington, has thrown more interceptions, has only a 50% completion percentage and has been sacked more times. More power to you if you see something better coming from him...like I said, I don't see it.

Now, if you see better things from Clemens on the horizon, tell me what you've seen thus far to come to that conclusion? Damn, if Pennington had those stats we would be roasting him over the coals (and we did)...even the freaking fins benched their heir apparent with comparable stats.

Forget stats. I see a strong arm, a fast release, pocket presence (as much as you can expect with the opposing stampedes our o-line allows), the ability to throw on the run, to throw off his back foot, to shake tackles, to run for a first down, etc. Everything that Chad cannot do.

[#27TheDominator]

I am constantly amazed at how quickly some of you people change your tune or at the first site of adversity completely sh*t yourself. THE MAN WAS PLAYING A 13-0 TEAM AND WAS KNOCKED OUT ON THE SECOND PLAY CAUSE OUR OFFENSIVE LINE COULDN'T PROTECT HIM, And that is what your basing your idea that Clemens isn't the future?? This thread is simply pathetic...

I'm not basing it on his two plays Sunday. I'm basing my opinion on every snap he's taken as a professional. He has not impressed. If somebody, like DM, saw some flash and feels confident in Clemens more power to them. I saw much more out of Browning at this point in his career. Clemens could develop, but waiting for guys to turn it around is a fatal flaw in the NFL. I pray he's good, but I'm not holding my breath.

[#27TheDominator]

Forget stats. I see a strong arm, a fast release, pocket presence (as much as you can expect with the opposing stampedes our o-line allows), the ability to throw on the run, to throw off his back foot, to shake tackles, to run for a first down, etc. Everything that Chad cannot do.

At this point in his career being better than Chad is not a ringing endorsement.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Forget stats. I see a strong arm, a fast release, pocket presence (as much as you can expect with the opposing stampedes our o-line allows), the ability to throw on the run, to throw off his back foot, to shake tackles, to run for a first down, etc. Everything that Chad cannot do.

You blew me away with this post...I've got to take my blinders off and start watching the game...

[NY JETS 29]

Clemens hasnt even started in 10 NFL games. Some of the best took time to adapt the the game speed and defenses, he has been up against Wash, Pitt, Ne, Dal just to name four teams with all very good defenses. Clemens's mechanics need tremendous work, but thats what the offseason is for. We have seen him get us back into games late more then once. He is a smart QB, strong armed and has the ability to move out of the pocket. His numbers are not impressive by any means, but I'm not willing to look for someone else after a 1/2 of season under center for him. If we were having this discussion week 6 into the 2008 season well then it could be valued, anything else is just another way to throw another player under the bus for lack of success from the WHOLE TEAM!!!!!

[nico002]

Clemens is playing the same sort of game. Whether that is the product of the system, I don't know...but, that's the game we are playing. He's played less than Pennington, has thrown more interceptions, has only a 50% completion percentage and has been sacked more times. More power to you if you see something better coming from him...like I said, I don't see it.

Now, if you see better things from Clemens on the horizon, tell me what you've seen thus far to come to that conclusion? Damn, if Pennington had those stats we would be roasting him over the coals (and we did)...even the freaking fins benched their heir apparent with comparable stats.

The fact that you are judging clemens based on his highly skewed stats (being put into impossible situations ex. buffalo), playing top NFL defenses in his first games, not having coles and cotch, the million dropped pases, etc etc shows how much you know. You don't judget young quarterbacks on their stats. Manning threw more INTs than TDs playing in a dome with more talent that kellen will ever have around him. Kellen has shown a good arm, the ability to scramble, and the ability to lead this team late in games to win/tie when everything is on the line.

[DMaynard]

At this point in his career being better than Chad is not a ringing endorsement.

Just making a point about raw abilities. Because Chad lacks those abilities, he can only take a team so far no matter how much talent is around him. Whereas with Clemens, I believe increasing the talent around him will allow him to take advantage of that talent. Now, there is no doubt that Clemens has a ways to go on the mental part of the position (where Chad excels). Hopefully, with experience, he can improve there. On the other hand, Chad will never be better physically. That is all I am saying. Clemens has the potential to be a good one and it is narrow minded to write him off at this early stage based upon statistics.

[NY JETS 29]

The fact that you are judging clemens based on his highly skewed stats (being put into impossible situations ex. buffalo), playing top NFL defenses in his first games, not having coles and cotch, the million dropped pases, etc etc shows how much you know. You don't judget young quarterbacks on their stats. Manning threw more INTs than TDs playing in a dome with more talent that kellen will ever have around him. Kellen has shown a good arm, the ability to scramble, and the ability to lead this team late in games to win/tie when everything is on the line.

its easy to throw a player under the bus when the WHOLE TEAM isnt performing. Clemens is young and has shown some great areas of his game that gives us a bright future. Theres no reason for you to justify it, Clemens isnt going anywhere and his future is bright. All your points are dead on.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Just making a point about raw abilities. Because Chad lacks those abilities, he can only take a team so far no matter how much talent is around him. Whereas with Clemens, I believe increasing the talent around him will allow him to take advantage of that talent. Now, there is no doubt that Clemens has a ways to go on the mental part of the position (where Chad excels). Hopefully, with experience, he can improve there. On the other hand, Chad will never be better physically. That is all I am saying. Clemens has the potential to be a good one and it is narrow minded to write him off at this early stage based upon statistics.

You're so quick to dismiss statistics when it suits your argument. What do you think they use to elect players into the HOF? Maybe they should base voting into the HOF on the guy's ability...at this rate, we should have a host of HOF reps from the Jets instead of just two.

I never saw it in Pennington and I don't see it in Clemens either.

[The Troll]

Veteran QBs arent allowed to make those types of stupid mistakes. Young QBs, esp 1st year starters are expected to do those types of things and are therefore given leeway. It is part of the process of a young QBs development.

People don't seem to get that. It's ridiculous.

Chad Pennington has STARTED FOR SIX YEARS!

Kellen Clemens has STARTED FOR SIX WEEKS!

I admit that Clemens has not impressed me at all, but you can't hold them to the same standard. If Clemens still sucks this bad at this time next season, then we'll have something to talk about.

[Barton]

Nobody can say for sure either way. He deserves a chance to play with an Oline that doesnt get him killed, and a healthy cast of WRs. And in typical jets luck, Clemens will be out for the next 2 games and Chad will start.

Adrien F'ing Clarke. Unbelievable.

[NY JETS 29]

People don't seem to get that. It's ridiculous.

Chad Pennington has STARTED FOR SIX YEARS!

Kellen Clemens has STARTED FOR SIX WEEKS!

I admit that Clemens has not impressed me at all, but you can't hold them to the same standard. If Clemens still sucks this bad at this time next season, then we'll have something to talk about.

YES! Exactly. If were having this conversation this time next season well then it can be valued. He hasnt had the experience or an offseason in where hes coming in being the #1 yet.

[Barton]

People don't seem to get that. It's ridiculous.

Chad Pennington has STARTED FOR SIX YEARS!

Kellen Clemens has STARTED FOR SIX WEEKS!

I admit that Clemens has not impressed me at all, but you can't hold them to the same standard. If Clemens still sucks this bad at this time next season, then we'll have something to talk about.

Yup. It's amazing how pathetic these Chad ball-washers are.

They give Chad years of excuses until he is 31, and Clemens gets 6 games working with a trainwreck Oline.

[DMaynard]

You're so quick to dismiss statistics when it suits your argument. What do you think they use to elect players into the HOF? Maybe they should base voting into the HOF on the guy's ability...at this rate, we should have a host of HOF reps from the Jets instead of just two.

I never saw it in Pennington and I don't see it in Clemens either.

Not when it suits my argument. When it suits the situation. A first year starting QB on a bad offense who has started six games and one series? Yes, the statistics are not as important as what I see in raw ability.

Looking at career statistics to elect players to the HOF? Much more relevant.

[#27TheDominator]

Yup. It's amazing how pathetic these Chad ball-washers are.

They give Chad years of excuses until he is 31, and Clemens gets 6 games working with a trainwreck Oline.

I'm not giving Clemens a pass for two years because the line sucks. I expect a young qb (not a rookie as many of you incorrectly state) to take too many sacks and throw too many picks. I also expect a qb with "it" or at least starting caliber talent to throw more tds. I understand the line might be the entire problem, but he is not impressing me at all. I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. He may well turn out to be a very good qb, but he hasn't done anything to keep me from looking for better. I wouldn't make it a priority, but anybody that thinks McFadden is a "playmaker" and will fix everything has to realize that better qb play is more important than upgrading from Thomas Jones.

[DMaynard]

I wouldn't make it a priority,

Actually, the decision has to be. Either the Jets agree with you six game evaluators, and use their first round pick on a QB, or they agree with me that Clemens has enough potential to be at least given a chance in 2008. There are no silver bullets. They are not going to find anyone with more potential than Clemens in the second or later rounds or in FA. And if they use the first round pick on a QB, they are not addressing any number of other pressing needs with the opportunity to get a potential blue chipper. It's easy to say Clemens has not impressed you yet and we need to get another QB. In the real world you have to build a team logically and take gambles on raw potential. If you keep replacing players who have not fullfilled their potential in their first, second or third years, you'll get nowhere fast.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Actually, the decision has to be. Either the Jets agree with you six game evaluators, and use their first round pick on a QB, or they agree with me that Clemens has enough potential to be at least given a chance in 2008. There are no silver bullets. They are not going to find anyone with more potential than Clemens in the second or later rounds or in FA. And if they use the first round pick on a QB, they are not addressing any number of other pressing needs with the opportunity to get a potential blue chipper. It's easy to say Clemens has not impressed you yet and we need to get another QB. In the real world you have to build a team logically and take gambles on raw potential. If you keep replacing players who have not fullfilled their potential in their first, second or third years, you'll get nowhere fast.

Now, I get it. Do you really think I'm basing this on six games? I've been against both Pennington and Clemens from the day we drafted these two college QB's...and the emphasis is on college QB's because the woods are full of great college QB's that become so-so NFL QB's.

The only media guy that put Clemens on a pedestal was Jaws...and we all know his track recond pedicting NFL QB's...at least I do. Years ago, he came out with Andre Ware will lead whatever team drafts him to the SB...right.

Now, I really hope I'm wrong about Clemens, but the percentages are on my side for this guy becoming a Jets franchise QB.

Let me ask you something DM. Were you on Browning Nagle's bandwagon as well? You had to be if you think Clemens is the guy...

[NIGHT STALKER]

Might as well subsitute Pennington and Clemens for O'Brien and Nagle......

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEED71338F933A0575BC0A964958260

[#27TheDominator]

Actually, the decision has to be. Either the Jets agree with you six game evaluators, and use their first round pick on a QB, or they agree with me that Clemens has enough potential to be at least given a chance in 2008. There are no silver bullets. They are not going to find anyone with more potential than Clemens in the second or later rounds or in FA. And if they use the first round pick on a QB, they are not addressing any number of other pressing needs with the opportunity to get a potential blue chipper. It's easy to say Clemens has not impressed you yet and we need to get another QB. In the real world you have to build a team logically and take gambles on raw potential. If you keep replacing players who have not fullfilled their potential in their first, second or third years, you'll get nowhere fast.

That's just it. I'm all about value. They have to determine where they rate Clemens. Suppose Brohm or Brennan drop to the second? They have to determine if they'd take one. They also could check the FA market. I'd rather have Clemens with a solid line than any qb coming out of college with this mess. I'm just saying we don't pass on value at the position because Clemens is supposedly the "QB of the future". Obviously it's too soon to properly evaluate him either way, but this staff can't put all their eggs in his basket either. Too much risk.

[jack48]

I agree! Clemens did not lose this game...but his short career so far has not impressed me. The facts are we need a some talent on the OL to determine if he is capable...until then he will never develop into someone that can lead the JETS to the Super Bowl.

He seems a little inaccurate but he is always under duress. And sometimes the receivers make the wrong read too. Surround him with some talent, then make a determination. One thing I do like is those late drives he had earlier on. That is encouraging.