oxscott Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Report: Twins lessen Santana demands According to the New York Times, the Twins have lessened their demands for Johan Santana and are no longer asking for Ian Kennedy along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera. Instead, the newspaper reports that Minnesota is willing accept Jeffrey Marquez in place of Kennedy. Marquez isn't in Kennedy's class as a prospect, but he's still a solid young arm with good upside and if the Twins trade Santana to the Yankees they'd be doing so primarily in order to get their hands on Hughes. Dec. 26 - 10:17 am et Source: New York Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Im indifferent to this deal by now. If it happens, fine. If not, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I don't want to give up Hughes. I don't really want Santana, but I sure don't want Boston to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Santana has alot of years left in him and is one of the best pitchers in the league. Even better is his strength is the changeup, which does not put alot of toll on his arm meaning he's less prone to arm injuries. He's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I don't want to give up Hughes. I don't really want Santana, but I sure don't want Boston to have him. I agree, I like Hughes, but I dont want Boston to have Santana either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Call me when Hughes can be a Yankee next year. Santana Pettite Wang Hughes Chamberlain That has an awfully nice ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I agree, I like Hughes, but I dont want Boston to have Santana either. You don't make moves based on what you think Boston might do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I MIGHT consider that deal. I still don't like giving up Melky if there isn't a plan to bring in a real CF to replace him. Damon can't do it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I MIGHT consider that deal. I still don't like giving up Melky if there isn't a plan to bring in a real CF to replace him. Damon can't do it anymore. It would severely weaken the Yankees defense at CF and Melky is an adequate offensive CF. The problem is that Santana will likely cost the Yankees $30M+ including luxury tax numbers and such. If Hughes can put up even decent numbers, which he's more than capable of doing and should do at the very least, he's also cost controlled over the next 5 or so years. When all is said and done, the Yankees have to figure out whether Santana is worth $29M more than Hughes, not to mention the other parts of the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Call me when Hughes can be a Yankee next year. Santana Pettite Wang Hughes Chamberlain That has an awfully nice ring to it. POTM !! You sir are on point 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 You don't make moves based on what you think Boston might do. Moves like that happen all the time. One team gets a player to block another team from getting the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 If they can get Santana without giving up Hughes (or Joba, of course) then I am for it, even with the additional salary. But if it involves Hughes, I am not so "gung-ho" in favor, in spite of Santana's pedigree. BTW - losing Melky's all around game will hurt, no matter what folks are thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Call me when Hughes can be a Yankee next year. Santana Pettite Wang Hughes Chamberlain That has an awfully nice ring to it. It is. It is a nice combination of power and finesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Moves like that happen all the time. One team gets a player to block another team from getting the player. Yes they do. And they shouldn't. It's called panicking. If Minnesota wants to take Boston's crap offer then that's their problem, not the Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Hahaha, Techno Viking. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Yes they do. And they shouldn't. It's called panicking. If Minnesota wants to take Boston's crap offer then that's their problem, not the Yankees. No, actually it is the Yankees problem. A rotation of: Josh Beckett Johan Santana Daisuke Matsuzaka - I expeect a Josh type bounce back in 2008. One year to acclimate. Curt Schilling Wakerfield/Lester/Bucholz That is a pretty formidable rotation. If your point was to not sell the farm for Johan that is a good point. However, if the Twins are leaning towards a 'crap' offer from the Sox, the Yankees have to get involved. The Sox gave up 120 fewer runs then the Yanks. Getting Johan 32+ starts to replace Julian Tavarez' 23 starts is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 No, actually it is the Yankees problem. A rotation of: Josh Beckett Johan Santana Daisuke Matsuzaka - I expeect a Josh type bounce back in 2008. One year to acclimate. Curt Schilling Wakerfield/Lester/Bucholz That is a pretty formidable rotation. If your point was to not sell the farm for Johan that is a good point. However, if the Twins are leaning towards a 'crap' offer from the Sox, the Yankees have to get involved. The Sox gave up 120 fewer runs then the Yanks. Getting Johan 32+ starts to replace Julian Tavarez' 23 starts is a no-brainer. No, it's not the Yankees problem. That's how it used to work, but not anymore. The Yankees can't run their business worrying about what Boston does and doesn't do. They shouldn't up their offer and get raped doing so just because Boston will get him for crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 . Getting Johan 32+ starts to replace Julian Tavarez' 23 starts is a no-brainer. True, but do you think Johan will let Manny fondle him in the dugout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 They had several really good deals, IMO, on the table. They got greedy, let em wait for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What I don't understand is why are the Twins trying to milk the Yanks, but are willing to take less from the Sox? Is the owner of the Twins a closet Sox fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What I don't understand is why are the Twins trying to milk the Yanks, but are willing to take less from the Sox? Is the owner of the Twins a closet Sox fan? I used to think that Jet fans were the most paranoid and conspiracy oriented in sports fandom, but I have revised that thinking, based on posts in this forum the last few months to Yankee fans. Yes, George Mitchell declined objectivity in his steroid report because of a Red Sox influence. Yes, another major league organization will receive less in return on a trade, just because the Yankees are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I used to think that Jet fans were the most paranoid and conspiracy oriented in sports fandom, but I have revised that thinking, based on posts in this forum the last few months to Yankee fans. Yes, George Mitchell declined objectivity in his steroid report because of a Red Sox influence. Yes, another major league organization will receive less in return on a trade, just because the Yankees are involved. Paranoid? Just realists....come on, look at it objectively. Steroid use is widespread throught baseball and no current Sox are on it? And are you saying the Twins are asking for the same from the Sox in a possible trade for Santana? That's a somewhat naive to not think it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 No, it's not the Yankees problem. That's how it used to work, but not anymore. The Yankees can't run their business worrying about what Boston does and doesn't do. They shouldn't up their offer and get raped doing so just because Boston will get him for crap. Yes, it is. The Yankees need to worry about Boston. Short of that epic Mariners collapse and Gag-ne handing the Yankees a half dozen games, the Yankees are on the outside looking in when it comes to the 2007 playoffs. Which would have been the 2nd straight year an AL East teamd did not get the wildcard. The only guranteed slot is first place. The Sox won it fairly comfortably short of the Gag-ne fiasco. First place is no longer sole possession of the Yankees and the Sox are looking to strength one of their few weaknesses. For all the potential of Hughes, Johan is a prooven commodity now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Paranoid? Just realists....come on, look at it objectively. Steroid use is widespread throught baseball and no current Sox are on it? And are you saying the Twins are asking for the same from the Sox in a possible trade for Santana? That's a somewhat naive to not think it. Wait, you said Steriods is "widespread" throughout baseball. In this same forum, did you not ask why people are assuming Clemens guilt without proof? Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Wait, you said Steriods is "widespread" throughout baseball. In this same forum, did you not ask why people are assuming Clemens guilt without proof? Which is it? Hell, I'm assuming as well, but let's not convict him first without a trail. I've said all along, that the Mitchell findings were incomplete because they didn't have access to all 30 teams...it would be naive to think that only the clubs where they had a "mole" were the only clubs with roids. And again to address the Santana situation...you really believe the asking price for the Red Sox is comparable to what they're asking the Yanks for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Wait, you said Steriods is "widespread" throughout baseball. In this same forum, did you not ask why people are assuming Clemens guilt without proof? Which is it? I don't see how those two options are mutually exclusive; Steroids can be widespread and we could still require tangible evidence before assuming someone is guilty. I personally think clemens is a roid-head but I'd like to see some more solid proof from these incompetent investigators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hell, I'm assuming as well, but let's not convict him first without a trail. I've said all along, that the Mitchell findings were incomplete because they didn't have access to all 30 teams...it would be naive to think that only the clubs where they had a "mole" were the only clubs with roids. And again to address the Santana situation...you really believe the asking price for the Red Sox is comparable to what they're asking the Yanks for? Absolutely the report was incomplete. It is just a small glimpse ito what was happening. Because of that, I don't think anyone should be dismissing teh report because it did not include players from their least favorite teams. That is not a way to prove objectivity or concusiveness. As far as teh trade,it makes no difference to us what we think is a competitive asking price. It is teh Minnesota Twins that have to be happy with what they receive. I hardly think they will accept a lesser deal, again in their mind, just for spite of another ball club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Absolutely the report was incomplete. It is just a small glimpse ito what was happening. Because of that, I don't think anyone should be dismissing teh report because it did not include players from their least favorite teams. That is not a way to prove objectivity or concusiveness. As far as teh trade,it makes no difference to us what we think is a competitive asking price. It is teh Minnesota Twins that have to be happy with what they receive. I hardly think they will accept a lesser deal, again in their mind, just for spite of another ball club. Where do you think JS will end up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Where do you think JS will end up? Not a clue. The whole fiasco has played out in the media too long, and I am not sure of the Twins thinking. With all of this playing out, I don't see how teh Twins cannot trade him now. Their Spring Training and club would be beseiged. They are at a point of no return. They may have to take less, as their bargaining position continues to weaken by the day, because of those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 If you're the Twins and the Yanks offer you Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and either Alan Horne or Jeff Marquez... what do you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 If you're the Twins and the Yanks offer you Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and either Alan Horne or Jeff Marquez... what do you do? I think that is the most the yanks should offer, give them melky, kennedy and some other prospect and they can take it or leave it. I'd rather keep hughes and if hughes sucks I can live with that rather than having santana come here, suck and have hughes turn into a superstar somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Where do you think JS will end up? I have the feeling he ends up in Queens unless Hank decides he has to have him and gives up Hughes-Melky-Marquez plus a lower prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I used to think that Jet fans were the most paranoid and conspiracy oriented in sports fandom, but I have revised that thinking, based on posts in this forum the last few months to Yankee fans. Yes, George Mitchell declined objectivity in his steroid report because of a Red Sox influence. Yes, another major league organization will receive less in return on a trade, just because the Yankees are involved. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Great post The phrase "great post" and StD don't equate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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