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Brick, Mangold, Clemens, Harris, and Revis.

That's five.

How the hell can you sit there and say Mangini and Tannenbaum don't know what their doing in the draft? The two tradeups they pulled last year have turned out to be fried gold. I think we can all agree that both Harris and Revis will be huge cornerstones on our defense for years to come.

KC has not proved to be a legit NFL starting QB yet. So while he's starting, anybody that says he's a legit NFL starting QB at this point is on drugs. The kid has not done anything to prove he'll be a starting NFL QB. So far he's done nothing special

So no, it's 4, not 5 starters. Just cause a guy is forced to start, doesn't mean he's a real starter. If he turns out to be as good as Derek Anderson next year, than yeah, he's a legit starter. But if he turns out to be Brooks Bollinger, than no, he's not a legit starter. You don't say KC is a starter at this point. Because as of right now, he's still an unknown.

And if you READ MY POST, I said BESIDES THE FIRST ROUND... Mangold, DBRICK, and REVIS are first round picks.... So Harris is the only player this regime has drafted outside the first round who starts. This regime seems to know how to draft first rounders. They really don't seem to have a clue outside the first round.

So if the Jets trade Vilma for a 4th round pick. who is to say the guy is even on the team in a year or two.

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Vilma will be a starting New York Jets linebacker in the 3-4 scheme for the 2008 season.

No way Mangini trades a player with his knowledge and ability.We are trying to build a defense here gentlemen you dont trade quality players for nobodys to accomplish that goal.

People don't seem to get that.

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This makes no sense. If Vilma sucks like some proclaim, yet other teams are willing to give up a 1st round draft pick for him, who really is the moron?

1) He does not fit this scheme & some teams like to look at the rosy side of things when they have a glaring hole on the team. Like a lot of us do here with Faneca. Teams like that would say that the only reason he isn't a dominating force for us is because of the 3-4 scheme.

2) Just because people believe he's below average doesn't mean others won't think he's above average & overpay for his services. Not too long ago, we gave up a high 2nd rounder for Justin McCareins & the value of a high 3rd for Doug Jolley. Tampa gave up two first rounders to us for Keyshawn.

3) There are only so many desirable FA's out there when there are an abundance of teams with $20M+ in available cap space. A GM might think it more prudent to take the "sure thing" (as he sees it) for Vilma instead of a player who needs development & could outright bust as an NFL player.

4) Tackles do not make one dominant. A tackle where you get dragged past the first down marker after running the long way around his blocker is not the same to your team as stopping a runner cold in his tracks. A simple stat of "tackles" treats them the same.

5) There is no way in the world Vilma should be commanding a first round pick anyway coming off injury/surgery & two sub-par seasons.

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Vilma will be a starting New York Jets linebacker in the 3-4 scheme for the 2008 season.

No way Mangini trades a player with his knowledge and ability.We are trying to build a defense here gentlemen you dont trade quality players for nobodys to accomplish that goal.

Says the man with "Brett Ratliff could he be our future...." in his sig.

People don't seem to get that.

According to you two, Patrick Willis was a "nobody" at this time last year. I'd take that ****er over Vilma or Harris any day and twice on Sundays.

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KC has not proved to be a legit NFL starting QB yet. So while he's starting, anybody that says he's a legit NFL starting QB at this point is on drugs. The kid has not done anything to prove he'll be a starting NFL QB. So far he's done nothing special

So no, it's 4, not 5 starters. Just cause a guy is forced to start, doesn't mean he's a real starter. If he turns out to be as good as Derek Anderson next year, than yeah, he's a legit starter. But if he turns out to be Brooks Bollinger, than no, he's not a legit starter. You don't say KC is a starter at this point. Because as of right now, he's still an unknown.

And if you READ MY POST, I said BESIDES THE FIRST ROUND... Mangold, DBRICK, and REVIS are first round picks.... So Harris is the only player this regime has drafted outside the first round who starts. This regime seems to know how to draft first rounders. They really don't seem to have a clue outside the first round.

So if the Jets trade Vilma for a 4th round pick. who is to say the guy is even on the team in a year or two.

Dude, this current front office drafts better than anyone we've had since the 80's. Go and look at the drafts of the Herm and Parcells days if you don't believe me.

And honestly, we're not going to be hurting that badly if Clemens turns out to be a bust. He's a former 2nd round pick making less than most backups. We don't have a lot of money or commitment tied into Kellen Clemens.

Brick and Mangold are both quality starters along the O-line. Harris and Revis are both young studs on defense. Leon Washington is one of the most dynamic returnmen in the NFL.

I'd say that's a pretty nice haul over a two year time period.

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Vilma will be a starting New York Jets linebacker in the 3-4 scheme for the 2008 season.

No way Mangini trades a player with his knowledge and ability.We are trying to build a defense here gentlemen you dont trade quality players for nobodys to accomplish that goal.

It's simple. Trade Vilma, draft Laurinaitis.

Then a weakness becomes a strength with a stud LB who suits this scheme.

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Vilma walks after the 08 season, the Jets get Nothing for him. He is not going to stay in the 3-4. It's a career killer for him. Better to make the Pro Bowl as a 4-3 MLB then a good 3-4 ILB.

If they are offered a 2nd or 3rd for him they have to take it. Their not going to the Super Bowl next season. Might as well get what they can fro Vilma now.

I love Vilma, but it's time to move him now.

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1) He does not fit this scheme & some teams like to look at the rosy side of things when they have a glaring hole on the team. Like a lot of us do here with Faneca. Teams like that would say that the only reason he isn't a dominating force for us is because of the 3-4 scheme.

2) Just because people believe he's below average doesn't mean others won't think he's above average & overpay for his services. Not too long ago, we gave up a high 2nd rounder for Justin McCareins & the value of a high 3rd for Doug Jolley. Tampa gave up two first rounders to us for Keyshawn.

3) There are only so many desirable FA's out there when there are an abundance of teams with $20M+ in available cap space. A GM might think it more prudent to take the "sure thing" (as he sees it) for Vilma instead of a player who needs development & could outright bust as an NFL player.

4) Tackles do not make one dominant. A tackle where you get dragged past the first down marker after running the long way around his blocker is not the same to your team as stopping a runner cold in his tracks. A simple stat of "tackles" treats them the same.

5) There is no way in the world Vilma should be commanding a first round pick anyway coming off injury/surgery & two sub-par seasons.

I think Vilma has looked bad in the 3-4, but who knows if they moved him outside or wherever if he couldn't improve. And maybe he hates the Jets, Mangini and the 3-4 at this point and will walk after next year. All I know is the Jets seem to be standing still. One of their best defensive players in 2004-2006 is dumped for a 4th rounder is the reason why the Jets never win.

He might walk and he might not be good in the 3-4, but the reality is, good teams find ways to replace players and utilize players strengths, they don't dump their better players for 4th round picks. Heck the Patriots used Troy Brown on defense. Other teams use Defensive Lineman as receivers. While the Jets dump Kendall, Fabini, and might dump Vilma, Coles, and Pennignton and wind up with 4th round picks.

At least they got a first round pick for Abe.

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Dude, this current front office drafts better than anyone we've had since the 80's. Go and look at the drafts of the Herm and Parcells days if you don't believe me.

And honestly, we're not going to be hurting that badly if Clemens turns out to be a bust. He's a former 2nd round pick making less than most backups. We don't have a lot of money or commitment tied into Kellen Clemens.

Brick and Mangold are both quality starters along the O-line. Harris and Revis are both young studs on defense. Leon Washington is one of the most dynamic returnmen in the NFL.

I'd say that's a pretty nice haul over a two year time period.

4-12 proves otherwise. They were 4-12 with Brooks Bollinger, a bunch of scrubs on offense and defense due to injuries and a coach and GM on their way out of town. So saying they've done good isn't exactly true.

Finding good players is one thing, finding players who make the team better is another. Going 4-12 2 years into your regime is not doing better.

And if KC is a bust, you don't realize that this regime is done. So who is the QB then? It would mean they have to draft somebody next year if they don't draft a kid this year. And then you have to give that kid 3+ years to develop. And suddenly it's 2012 before you start to think about maybe being a contender if that kid is good.

I'm sorry but while KC isn't demanding top dollars, if he's a bust, this regime is done. Very few regimes get another chance to pick the QB of the future. And that's what KC is or is not.

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You do realize Harris has played all 16 games, not just 8. He might have only started 8, but it wasn't like he sat the bench the first 8 and never played.

So far I agree Harris looks great, but then again 126 tackles also means nobody on the DL is making tackles. Harris should not have 126 tackles, plain and simple.

But as I said, people were proclaiming Vilma would be great back then. People are proclaiming Harris will be. A few years later people want Vilma out of town. WHo is to say in a few years the same won't be said about Harris.

All I know is a team should find a way to utilize a guy who averages over 100 tackles per year . But what are the Jets known for. Dumping their better players and never replacing them.

Harris is a great pickup, but it's not like he improves the team if he's just replacing Vilma. If they added Harris and found a way to utilize Vilma, that's improving the team. What the Jets are doing is one big circle jerk. Draft a good player, dump a good player.

Pretty much every team has at least one LBer with 100 tackles. There were about 40 such players this past season spread among the 32 teams. Last year there were even more.

Statistically, it's about as rare as a RB who gets 500-600 rushing yards, so it's not as though this stat somehow defines him as a singularly magnificent player.

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I think Vilma has looked bad in the 3-4, but who knows if they moved him outside or wherever if he couldn't improve. And maybe he hates the Jets, Mangini and the 3-4 at this point and will walk after next year. All I know is the Jets seem to be standing still. One of their best defensive players in 2004-2006 is dumped for a 4th rounder is the reason why the Jets never win.

He might walk and he might not be good in the 3-4, but the reality is, good teams find ways to replace players and utilize players strengths, they don't dump their better players for 4th round picks. Heck the Patriots used Troy Brown on defense. Other teams use Defensive Lineman as receivers. While the Jets dump Kendall, Fabini, and might dump Vilma, Coles, and Pennignton and wind up with 4th round picks.

At least they got a first round pick for Abe.

Do you want a tissue? You are crying that this team is "standing still" because of a mock draft proposed on an internet message board. It's not something the team is necessarily entertaining. You don't want to trade him for a first because "other GMs aren't stupid, so if they offer a first he's worth at least that much" and you don't want to "dump him for a fourth" because he's one of our better defensive players. Keeping players that will leave in a year for no compensation and do not fit in when there are good offers out there is the one truly stupid thing. BTW, it was a 3rd, not a 4th.

Vilma is not a good fit on the outside. He's still small and will still be facing linemen. He is not good in coverage either, so I wouldn't expect him at S or covering TEs. (Remember Moss' 1 on 4 td week 1?) Moving guys around is nice, sometimes you find a gem, but most of the time you end up with Juan Samuel in CF.

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Do you want a tissue? You are crying that this team is "standing still" because of a mock draft proposed on an internet message board. It's not something the team is necessarily entertaining. You don't want to trade him for a first because "other GMs aren't stupid, so if they offer a first he's worth at least that much" and you don't want to "dump him for a fourth" because he's one of our better defensive players. Keeping players that will leave in a year for no compensation and do not fit in when there are good offers out there is the one truly stupid thing. BTW, it was a 3rd, not a 4th.

Vilma is not a good fit on the outside. He's still small and will still be facing linemen. He is not good in coverage either, so I wouldn't expect him at S or covering TEs. (Remember Moss' 1 on 4 td week 1?) Moving guys around is nice, sometimes you find a gem, but most of the time you end up with Juan Samuel in CF.

Beat me to it.

I can't believe someone would concede that Vilma isn't all that as a 3-4 ILB largely due to his size & then suggest he move to OLB where he'd be even MORE undersized. An OLB in the 3-4 is like a friggin' lineman in the 4-3. How many linemen are 225-230 lbs?

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Do you want a tissue? You are crying that this team is "standing still" because of a mock draft proposed on an internet message board. It's not something the team is necessarily entertaining. You don't want to trade him for a first because "other GMs aren't stupid, so if they offer a first he's worth at least that much" and you don't want to "dump him for a fourth" because he's one of our better defensive players. Keeping players that will leave in a year for no compensation and do not fit in when there are good offers out there is the one truly stupid thing. BTW, it was a 3rd, not a 4th.

Vilma is not a good fit on the outside. He's still small and will still be facing linemen. He is not good in coverage either, so I wouldn't expect him at S or covering TEs. (Remember Moss' 1 on 4 td week 1?) Moving guys around is nice, sometimes you find a gem, but most of the time you end up with Juan Samuel in CF.

If they get a first round pick for him, why not go for it. But a 3rd or 4th round pick doesn't make this team better. The idea is to improve in the offseason, not hope the Jets get good in the year 2012.

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Ok id like to know from the football genuises we have here.

Who will be our 4 starting linebackers for the 2008 season.

Harris, ? , ? , ? .

This ought to be good......................................Let me get some popcorn.

Thomas Harris Barton/Laurinitas (if drafted Barton gets cutt) Suggs

I'd be happy with that.

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Thomas Harris Barton/Laurinitas (if drafted Barton gets cutt) Suggs

I'd be happy with that.

Bryan Thomas is horrible he isnt even in the same category as Vilma.

Eric Barton old and slow he had a great season this year YEA RIGHT!!

James Laurintitus undrafted unproven.

Terrell Suggs will demand more money than the Jets will pay.

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I'd be happy with that but that's a lot of If's. If Suggs doesn't sign and they draft an OL at 6, who are the starting LBs then?

If Suggs doesn't sign than we consider Gholston instead of Laurinitas and keep Barton, or we still draft Laurinitas and draft Shawn Crable in the second round. We could also use Bowens a lot more outside.

Drafting an OL at 6th would be dumb.

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If they let Vilma go we will pickup a LB who would be more productive in the 3-4. IMO Laurinitas would be a perfect fit.

That would be the consensus, but then again, Abe still hasn't been replaced nor was Kendall. So there is no guarantee that they would replace him. At least with a legit starter.

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That would be the consensus, but then again, Abe still hasn't been replaced nor was Kendall. So there is no guarantee that they would replace him. At least with a legit starter.

We never really signed or went after big time replacements though, if we draft Laurinaitis we're doing exacatly that.

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Bryan Thomas is horrible he isnt even in the same category as Vilma.

Eric Barton old and slow he had a great season this year YEA RIGHT!!

James Laurintitus undrafted unproven.

Terrell Suggs will demand more money than the Jets will pay.

Eric Barton played better than Vilma. Bryon Thomas can be replaced in the draft by Shawn Crable in second round or we use Bowens more. Laurinitas will be a beast just like AJ Hawk was. He is the closest thing to a sure thing in this years draft. If Terrell Suggs doesn't sign we keep using Thomas and whoever we drafted and substitue Bowens in a lot.

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We havent had a legitimate pass rusher since John Abraham id take his 1/2 season of play anyday vs nothing.

Trade Vilma and this will be another James Farrior situation sorry we let him go.

First what the hell do those two points have to do with each other? Secondly I'm saying this for what feels like the billionth time. Vilma will only be good in a 4-3 he is useless here.

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If Suggs doesn't sign than we consider Gholston instead of Laurinitas and keep Barton, or we still draft Laurinitas and draft Shawn Crable in the second round. We could also use Bowens a lot more outside.

Drafting an OL at 6th would be dumb.

Same thing can be said about drafting an OL with the 4th pick. Oh wait, they already did that. So who is to say they won't again.

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Eric Barton played better than Vilma. Bryon Thomas can be replaced in the draft by Shawn Crable in second round or we use Bowens more. Laurinitas will be a beast just like AJ Hawk was. He is the closest thing to a sure thing in this years draft. If Terrell Suggs doesn't sign we keep using Thomas and whoever we drafted and substitue Bowens in a lot.

So he is better than AJ Hawk yet you wouldn't want us to draft him????

He is one hell of a football player and the thought of him and Harris in the middle of our 3-4 is scary.

Totally agree with that scenario if we draft him at #6.

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If Suggs doesn't sign than we consider Gholston instead of Laurinitas and keep Barton, or we still draft Laurinitas and draft Shawn Crable in the second round. We could also use Bowens a lot more outside.

Drafting an OL at 6th would be dumb.

Back to Eric Barton hes terrible.Vilma is 100% better.

Stats dont lie. 47 solo tackles in 2007?

Recent Career Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc

Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD DefTD FFum PD Sfty

2005 NY Jets 4 13 8 21 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0

2006 NY Jets 16 72 28 100 4.5 36 0 0 0 0 1 2 0

2007 NY Jets 16 47 26 73 2.0 14 1 1 0 0 0 2 0

Career Totals (Full) 120 469 169 638 18.5 113 4 13 0 0 6 17 0

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