afosomf Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Take it for what it is worth. From the Daily news Looking at the list I don't exactly see any saviors on it. Clemens got worse as the season wore on. Starting with the Baltimore game where he stood took his shots and made some nice throws late to the a jittery feet QB who threw alot of balls into the ground against KC. I would give him 08 but I would be looking a QB in the draft. out of curiosity what were aikman's, peyton's and Palmer's ratings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 out of curiosity what were aikman's, peyton's and Palmer's ratings 1989 aikman 55.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 out of curiosity what were aikman's, peyton's and Palmer's ratings Here you go Aikman: 55.7 1989 Palmer: 77.3 2004 Manning 71.2 1998 Here are a couple more Leftwich 73.0 2003 McNabb 60.1 1999 David Carr 62.8 2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 If Clemens is thrown out already by you guys then the real culprits have to be Tannebaum and Mangini for drafting him in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Here you go Aikman: 55.7 1989 Palmer: 77.3 2004 Manning 71.2 1998 Here are a couple more Leftwich 73.0 2003 McNabb 60.1 1999 David Carr 62.8 2002 how does that change your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 how does that change your opinion? It doesn't What I am saying is that Clemens' body of work shows not progression but regression. I didn't like what I saw as the season progressed. The guy has a very good arm but his pocket presence, his ability to read a defense and make the correct calls at the line are not there yet. The last thing I want is the second coming of David Carr. If the Jets address the OL then we should get a better gauge on if Clemens will be a seviceable QB. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It doesn't What I am saying is that Clemens' body of work shows not progression but regression. I didn't like what I saw as the season progressed. The guy has a very good arm but his pocket presence, his ability to read a defense and make the correct calls at the line are not there yet. The last thing I want is the second coming of David Carr. If the Jets address the OL then we should get a better gauge on if Clemens will be a seviceable QB. JMO. elway 54.9 his first 11 games ummm KC has yet to play a game with a healthy coles/cotch yet His OL may be the worst in the league, i would like to see him play with his full complement of wideouts and at least an average OL before he is tarred and feathered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 elway 54.9 his first 11 games ummm KC has yet to play a game with a healthy coles/cotch yet His OL may be the worst in the league, i would like to see him play with his full complement of wideouts and at least an average OL before he is tarred and feathered Baltimore and he played decent, was great in the 4th Quarter. I'm worried about KC, he didn't play well even against bad teams (He was horrible in the Cleveland game) but he's still shown a lot of potential. He needs to make smarter desicions consistently and greatly improve his pocket prescence. There has been times where he has had time but gets sacked anyway due to holding the ball too long. Vs KC there was a time he took off to run when he didn't have to, he started running right and then turned to go back the other way. No QB not named Mike Vick or Vince Young can pull those kind of plays off and TBH at times he really does look lost. He is very young though and was always going to have to take his lumps eventually. Hopefully a full year as the main guy in camp can really help improve his development. I still saw enough positive things from Kellen to give me some sort of hope for the future, hopefully he can really step it up next season and help lead this team to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Guys this is getting way off topic. The real question is how do we bring back Fred Jetstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Kellen probably isn't the answer but you've gotta at least try. You're not going to be able to sign a Drew Brees off the market usually, and even that was a risk that worked out. Our FO doesn't have the guts to take that risk, but even if they did knowing Jet luck it would just backfire anyway. We need to just hope it's KC. He needs way better playcalling and better players around him though. I do not think simply fixing the O-line will cure most of the problems we have, but it's certainly better than leaving it the way it is. We just gotta hope now, not much else we can do as fans anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Guys this is getting way off topic. The real question is how do we bring back Fred Jetstone? I miss that crazy sonofabitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Kellen has horrible pocket presence? What pocket? He hasn't been in a pocket all season thanks to the O-line. To make matters worse, most of these games his only healthy receivers were MacDroppins, Brad Smith and Wallace Wright. I'm not a Kellen fanboy or anything like that, I'm just saying this test has been a total disaster; there's no way to tell what he is/isn't capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjam76 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 elway 54.9 his first 11 games ummm KC has yet to play a game with a healthy coles/cotch yet His OL may be the worst in the league, i would like to see him play with his full complement of wideouts and at least an average OL before he is tarred and feathered And if Coles is gone next season and we are stuck watching Cotchery and JMac as the two main WR's, will there be another excuse next year? The QB rating, interceptions and everything else really doesn't matter at this point. What worries me is the guy almost threw 2 picks per game yet really has no big plays or TDs.. Manning threw like 26 TD's his rookie year even though he threw 29 picks or something.. KC has never had great moments. He had a nice 4th quarter against the Ravens, but saying JMAc sucks and the OL sucks is a bad excuse considering the same people are saying Chad sucks even though he played on the same team with the same players. KC deserves another year, but so far, all I see is another Brooks, nothing else. Hopefully he gets better next year, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 And if Coles is gone next season and we are stuck watching Cotchery and JMac as the two main WR's, will there be another excuse next year? The QB rating, interceptions and everything else really doesn't matter at this point. What worries me is the guy almost threw 2 picks per game yet really has no big plays or TDs.. Manning threw like 26 TD's his rookie year even though he threw 29 picks or something.. KC has never had great moments. He had a nice 4th quarter against the Ravens, but saying JMAc sucks and the OL sucks is a bad excuse considering the same people are saying Chad sucks even though he played on the same team with the same players. KC deserves another year, but so far, all I see is another Brooks, nothing else. Hopefully he gets better next year, but who knows. kc also won more games than chad did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 OMG PEOPLE!!! START IN THE NFL FOR THE FIRST TIME AND LETS SEE HOW GOOD YOU DO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 All the pocket presence in the world doesnt help if your Oline lets 3 guys come right at you when you drop back and your WRs cant get open. From what I have seen, Clemens is like every other young QB in that he holds on to the ball too long at times. But I believe he DOES sense the pass rush well, because many times he has tucked the ball and ran, or stepped up in the pocket when he was about to get smashed. At least he doesnt go backwards and lose 10 yards, like somebody we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY JETS 29 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 All the pocket presence in the world doesnt help if your Oline lets 3 guys come right at you when you drop back and your WRs cant get open. From what I have seen, Clemens is like every other young QB in that he holds on to the ball too long at times. But I believe he DOES sense the pass rush well, because many times he has tucked the ball and ran, or stepped up in the pocket when he was about to get smashed. At least he doesnt go backwards and lose 10 yards, like somebody we know. Along with his mechanics being down right awful I think an offseason and training camp as a #1 will fix a lot of those problems, I'm yet to be convinced hes the QB of the future, but I am convinced hes the answer for 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I didnt get to see many games at all this year to really see first hand how Kellen looked in different situations, but........ What I did see was Clemens has an arm that can throw a frozen rope when needed, and seems to also possess some touch as well. His accuracy is suspect on occasion, and I would need to see more "film" of him to gauge why. Following the play-by-play on Gamecenter and reading our gameday threads just doesnt replace seeing it. His pocket awareness seems par for a QB as untested as he was/is, and arguments can be made that his protection was far from what he needed to do his job with any kind of consistancy. What I looked for when I watched him, was what did he do with what he had on the field to work with and did he make good decisions during the game? From what little I got to witness, he did pretty good at both. There were stumbles yes, but given his experience level he was not laying an egg out there. There were drops by the WRs that started as soon as he did in the Ravens game, and some of those can be attributed to his inaccuracy but alot were catchable as well. The accuracy is the most troubling aspect in Clemens to me, and I am hoping the off season gives him time to get that attended to. Plenty of "quality time" with his WRs (new and old) is an absolute must. As I said, I didnt get to see many games so this is just my veiw from outside the bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Barton, you are using way too much analysis. Don't you know all you have to do is look at his stats for the first 8 games of his career and know that he is not going to make it? You don't even have to watch the games. Just read the stats. FWIW, Clemens was asked in a radio interview (with Wischusen) if he had reviewed his game tape yet and Clemens said he and the coaching staff reviewed his games, and they looked at his interceptions (all 10 of them). Together they deemed that only 5 of them were Kellen's fault. No surprise to me. Add in this, and the fact that he had SEVERAL touchdowns dropped, Kellen could easily have had more Tds than Ints, and obviously that would have given him a much higher QB rating. This is the case for every other QB obviously too, but I think in Clemens' case he not only had poor luck with the interceptions but combined with taking over a 1-7 team with a poorous Oline and banged up receivers, it was a no win situation - despite the necessity of him having to play in 07'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjam76 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 FWIW, Clemens was asked in a radio interview (with Wischusen) if he had reviewed his game tape yet and Clemens said he and the coaching staff reviewed his games, and they looked at his interceptions (all 10 of them). Together they deemed that only 5 of them were Kellen's fault. No surprise to me. Add in this, and the fact that he had SEVERAL touchdowns dropped, Kellen could easily have had more Tds than Ints, and obviously that would have given him a much higher QB rating. This is the case for every other QB obviously too, but I think in Clemens' case he not only had poor luck with the interceptions but combined with taking over a 1-7 team with a poorous Oline and banged up receivers, it was a no win situation - despite the necessity of him having to play in 07'. Talk about a guy slurping somebody. He threw 10 picks. He couldn't get the Jets into the end zone. Yeah the OL sucked, JMAC sucks and Smith isn't really a WR, but then again, the same can be said when Chad started. He does deserve to start next season, but after 8 games, we still have no clue if KC can start in the NFL. And that isn't a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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