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afosomf

who gets the call to HOF

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I actually watched baseball during those years too. Sorry, there goes your "I actually saw with my own two eyes!!!!111!!!" argument. Wow, what a great way to decide who gets in the HOF. **** numbers. If Peter Gammons says he's the most feared hitter, he's in.

All is was doing was commenting on mbns baseball acumen, and my respect for that.

If you want to turn something into a spitting match, so be it.

They are only opinions. Why they frighten you, I guess only you can answer.

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All is was doing was commenting on mbns baseball acumen, and my respect for that.

If you want to turn something into a spitting match, so be it.

They are only opinions. Why they frighten you, I guess only you can answer.

Scott, you're a bit much...you're cherry picking here. Because mbn happens to agree with your assessment of Rice, then it's concrete. Give me a break...I've been watching baseball a lot longer than mbn and my memory of Rice I think is a lot more than a faint memory. But, I respect everyone's opinion on this topic.

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Scott, you're a bit much...you're cherry picking here. Because mbn happens to agree with your assessment of Rice, then it's concrete. Give me a break...I've been watching baseball a lot longer than mbn and my memory of Rice I think is a lot more than a faint memory. But, I respect everyone's opinion on this topic.

NS-Where have I given my opinion on Rice?

DaBrick commented on mbn as subscribing to what sportswriters write, as a basis of his opinion.

I enlightened him that is not the case.

I respect your opinion as well. May not necessarily agree with it.......

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I actually watched baseball during those years too. Sorry, there goes your "I actually saw with my own two eyes!!!!111!!!" argument. Wow, what a great way to decide who gets in the HOF. **** numbers. If Peter Gammons says he's the most feared hitter, he's in.

Her is a writer and voter from ESPN.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2268868

For a period of 12 years -- 1975-86 -- Rice led all American League players in 12 different offensive categories, including home runs (350), RBI (1,276), total bases (3,670), slugging percentage (.520), runs (1,098) and hits (2,145).

In that span, his typical season looked something like this: 29 homers, 106 RBI, 91 runs scored and an average above .300.

But what really elevates the case for Rice is context. He led every player in his league in virtually every significant offensive category for a dozen years. And when you add in all of the National League players from the same era, Rice still leads in five categories and finishes second in three others.

First or second in eight different categories for a dozen years? That sounds plenty dominant enough for me.

It's been suggested that if Rice had found a way to add 18 homers to his career total and lifted his career batting average of .298 two measly points, that his election would be guaranteed. But such benchmarks are superficial and ever-changing.

Better to view Rice through his own era when, in addition to winning the AL MVP in 1978, Rice finished in the top five in AL MVP voting five other times. He led the AL in homers three times and twice led the league in RBI.

Finally, there's historical perspective. Among all major leaguers, only nine players have compiled as high a career batting average (.298) and as many homers. They are: Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Mel Ott, Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Stan Musial.

They're all Hall of Famers. Rice should be, too.

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Good find.

Yeah, so was mine...however, you Rice guys have chosen to ignore it and it had plenty of information. Of course it didn't have what you guys wanted to read...don't you think Rice would be in if his numbers really supported it? And thank god there are plenty of African Americans in the HOF or you guys would be pulling the race card. On second thought, maybe not. Red Sox organization isn't known for signing that particular race.;)

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Her is a writer and voter from ESPN.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2268868

Thanks for posting that. All that did was support my argument that Rice doesn't belong in the HOF...those players you listed at the end of the article...Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Mel Ott, Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Stan Musial. Are you kidding me? Rice couldn't carry their ****ing jock. All of those guys held or hold MLB records at one time or another...Rice doesn't even come close to a MLB record...I said I wouldn't respond to this thread anymore, but you guys keep on posting this nonsense and sucking me in. Why don't you write one of the writers that hasn't caved to public opionion and find out why he hasn't been voted in...there are a lot of writers to choose from.:Typotux:

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Thanks for posting that. All that did was support my argument that Rice doesn't belong in the HOF...those players you listed at the end of the article...Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Mel Ott, Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Stan Musial. Are you kidding me? Rice couldn't carry their ****ing jock. All of those guys held or hold MLB records at one time or another...Rice doesn't even come close to a MLB record...I said I wouldn't respond to this thread anymore, but you guys keep on posting this nonsense and sucking me in. Why don't you write one of the writers that hasn't caved to public opionion and find out why he hasn't been voted in...there are a lot of writers to choose from.:Typotux:

That is an impressive list. Rice is the 10th best player on that list no doubt. A list that signifies Rice is one of only 10 players to accomplish that career feat. 10 players in the 132 year history of baseball.

He did not lead just one category he listed 12 different offensive categories over a 12 year period. Among the leaders in varous batting categories a 100x in his career.

He is the only player in major league history to have three consecutive 39+ HR seasons ICW 200 hits.

Tied for AL Record of leading the league in total bases three consecutive seasons.

1 of 3 AL players with 39+ HRs and .315 BA or greater for three staright seasons.

He is one of only two American League players ever to lead his league in both triples and home runs in the same season, and he remains the only player ever to lead his league, and Major League Baseball in triples, home runs, and RBIs in the same season.

His 406 total bases that year was the most in the A.L. since Joe DiMaggio had 418 in 1937, and it made Rice the first major leaguer with 400 or more total bases since Hank Aaron's 400 in 1959.

This feat wasn't repeated again until 1997, when Larry Walker had 409. No American League player has done it since Rice in 1978.

Rice led the AL in home runs three times (1977, 1978, 1983), in RBI twice (1978, 1983), in slugging percentage twice (1977, 1978), and in total bases four times (1977-1979, 1983). He also picked up Silver Slugger awards in 1983 and 1984 (the award was created in 1980). Rice hit at least 39 home runs in a season four times, had eight 100 RBI seasons, four seasons with 200+ hits and batted over .300 seven times.

I do not know NS. He looks like he did things that only all-time greats did. Even some they did not.

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That is an impressive list. Rice is the 10th best player on that list no doubt. A list that signifies Rice is one of only 10 players to accomplish that career feat. 10 players in the 132 year history of baseball.

He did not lead just one category he listed 12 different offensive categories over a 12 year period. Among the leaders in varous batting categories a 100x in his career.

He is the only player in major league history to have three consecutive 39+ HR seasons ICW 200 hits.

Tied for AL Record of leading the league in total bases three consecutive seasons.

1 of 3 AL players with 39+ HRs and .315 BA or greater for three staright seasons.

He is one of only two American League players ever to lead his league in both triples and home runs in the same season, and he remains the only player ever to lead his league, and Major League Baseball in triples, home runs, and RBIs in the same season.

His 406 total bases that year was the most in the A.L. since Joe DiMaggio had 418 in 1937, and it made Rice the first major leaguer with 400 or more total bases since Hank Aaron's 400 in 1959.

This feat wasn't repeated again until 1997, when Larry Walker had 409. No American League player has done it since Rice in 1978.

Rice led the AL in home runs three times (1977, 1978, 1983), in RBI twice (1978, 1983), in slugging percentage twice (1977, 1978), and in total bases four times (1977-1979, 1983). He also picked up Silver Slugger awards in 1983 and 1984 (the award was created in 1980). Rice hit at least 39 home runs in a season four times, had eight 100 RBI seasons, four seasons with 200+ hits and batted over .300 seven times.

I do not know NS. He looks like he did things that only all-time greats did. Even some they did not.

Not debating whether Rice was a very good player...he was. I'm just stating that I don't clump him in with the greatest players to play that position and there are writers that feel the same way. The magic number for HR's is 400 and usually a free pass (not always because they take other accomplishments into consideration) and falls short by something like 8 I believe.

Has Jim Rice ever held a record or hold one? All time greats at the position he played either held or hold a record...a sure bet to get into the HOF when you consider all their other stats.

Do you think Orlando Cepeda belongs in the HOF? Very similar numbers. And he was a "feared hitter" as well...although I don't believe that should be considered a plus factor to getting into the HOF.

PF, do you really want to put Jim Rice in the HOF with the likes of Teddy Ball and the Yaz? Come on...

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Not debating whether Rice was a very good player...he was. I'm just stating that I don't clump him in with the greatest players to play that position and there are writers that feel the same way. The magic number for HR's is 400 and usually a free pass (not always because they take other accomplishments into consideration) and falls short by something like 8 I believe.

Has Jim Rice ever held a record or hold one? All time greats at the position he played either held or hold a record...a sure bet to get into the HOF when you consider all their other stats.

Do you think Orlando Cepeda belongs in the HOF? Very similar numbers. And he was a "feared hitter" as well...although I don't believe that should be considered a plus factor to getting into the HOF.

PF, do you really want to put Jim Rice in the HOF with the likes of Teddy Ball and the Yaz? Come on...

I am glad you brought Yaz up.

When you talk about Yaz, you are talking about his number 400 HRs, 3000 hits and his Triple Crown.

If holding a record was criteria for induction, there would be about 7 players because only HRs are truly idolized.

However, really look at his numbers.

-He never had 200 hits in a season. Rice had 4.

-Had 3-40 HR seasons and 5 others in the 20s. Only 8 of his 23 seasons has 20 or more HRs. Rice had 3 seasons at 39 HRs or more and 11 of his 16 seasons with 20 or more HRs.

-He had 5 seasons with 100+ RBIs and 2 others above 90. Rice had 8 seasons with 100+ and one other over 90.

-He hit 6 seasons over .300. Rice had 7. During Rice's prime, he hit between .277-.325. Yat ranged from .254-.329. He had 13 seasons where he hit .280 or below.

Was Yaz great? He is a good player that played a long time. I think Rice merits inclusion more then Yaz. I would say Cepeda also.

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I am glad you brought Yaz up.

When you talk about Yaz, you are talking about his number 400 HRs, 3000 hits and his Triple Crown.

If holding a record was criteria for induction, there would be about 7 players because only HRs are truly idolized.

However, really look at his numbers.

-He never had 200 hits in a season. Rice had 4.

-Had 3-40 HR seasons and 5 others in the 20s. Only 8 of his 23 seasons has 20 or more HRs. Rice had 3 seasons at 39 HRs or more and 11 of his 16 seasons with 20 or more HRs.

-He had 5 seasons with 100+ RBIs and 2 others above 90. Rice had 8 seasons with 100+ and one other over 90.

-He hit 6 seasons over .300. Rice had 7. During Rice's prime, he hit between .277-.325. Yat ranged from .254-.329. He had 13 seasons where he hit .280 or below.

Was Yaz great? He is a good player that played a long time. I think Rice merits inclusion more then Yaz. I would say Cepeda also.

PF, you think winning the Triple Crown is easy? And Yaz was voted 18 times as an All Star...some don't think it's a big deal, but I do. Especially when it was your peers voting and not the poplularity vote with the fans today.

Yaz also had 7 Gold Gloves...how many did Rice have? ZERO! Come on PF, you're tarnishing one of your own putting him in the same jock strap as Yaz.

That's like me saying Bernie Williams who patrolled CF for the Yanks a long time belongs in the HOF...no way by this Yankees fan.

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PF, you think winning the Triple Crown is easy? And Yaz was voted 18 times as an All Star...some don't think it's a big deal, but I do. Especially when it was your peers voting and not the poplularity vote with the fans today.

Yaz also had 7 Gold Gloves...how many did Rice have? ZERO! Come on PF, you're tarnishing one of your own putting him in the same jock strap as Yaz.

That's like me saying Bernie Williams who patrolled CF for the Yanks a long time belongs in the HOF...no way by this Yankees fan.

NS -

Please look at Yaz's stats.

He is like Curtis Martin. He was good for a long career. Relatively healthy and by the conclusion of his career a holder of alot of pretty numbers. Was Yaz great? Uh? Um? He was consistent. He hit .280-.300 for a majority of his carrer and aveged under 20 HRs a season for his carrer. Is that great? He failed to hit acceptable numbers (.300 and 20 HRs) for a majority of his career, but he is a HofFer. Yet, Rice exceeded these standards more despite playing 7 less seasons. He led the AL in 12 offensive categories for a 12 years period. He led 5 of those categories and was second in three others in all of baseball. That is something I doubt Yaz did at any time or Bernie.

Not to minimize his Triple Crown accomplishment. It is a great accomplishment. He had a great year. Rice nearly had one in 1978 (finished third in BA) and he also led the league in triples also.

The one clear argument for Yaz is fielding.

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Like I mentioned, I'm done with this thread except for one thing...unless you've been to a Yankees game before me (1951)...you are a "Sox homer"!

Can't help it if my folks didn't even meet each other until 3 years later. ;) And I didn't come around until a few years after that. But I went to a Yankee game in 1966, and was hooked from then on. By my 10th Birthday, I knew enough to hold an intelligent conversation about Baseball with anyone.

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That's not a competent argument. The fact that jerkoffs in the media claim he was the "most feared hitter" has nothing to do with whether he should be in the HOF or not. That's about as far of a thing from a fact as you can get.

I probably watched or listened to 140 Yankees games a year during Rice's career. Maybe more. And I read up on anything that was Baseball. The Sporting News, Baseball Digest, Baseball Weekly, etc. You name it, I either had a subscription to it, or picked it up at the news-stand.

There is no doubt from anyone who was a follower of the game that in his era, Rice was the last guy you wanted up where a "bomb" would hurt you. And it didn't matter where the game was played. When he hit the ball, it stayed hit.

His numbers for his era were dominating. And he deserves to be in the HOF. No questions asked.

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NS -

Please look at Yaz's stats.

He is like Curtis Martin. He was good for a long career. Relatively healthy and by the conclusion of his career a holder of alot of pretty numbers. Was Yaz great? Uh? Um? He was consistent. He hit .280-.300 for a majority of his carrer and aveged under 20 HRs a season for his carrer. Is that great? He failed to hit acceptable numbers (.300 and 20 HRs) for a majority of his career, but he is a HofFer. Yet, Rice exceeded these standards more despite playing 7 less seasons. He led the AL in 12 offensive categories for a 12 years period. He led 5 of those categories and was second in three others in all of baseball. That is something I doubt Yaz did at any time or Bernie.

Not to minimize his Triple Crown accomplishment. It is a great accomplishment. He had a great year. Rice nearly had one in 1978 (finished third in BA) and he also led the league in triples also.

The one clear argument for Yaz is fielding.

Know what?

Your Martin comparison with Yaz is not bad. Like Yaz in 1967, Curtis had that one great year where he led the league in Rushing. He also had many very good years where he reached a very accepted standard for rushing yards. But he was rarely, except for in the eyes of Jets fans, listed among the all time great backs, or even among the best of his era.

Yaz had a very great season when he won the triple crown. It is an accomplishment that is indeed rare in Baseball, and will be more difficult, in my opinion, in the future. There are too many guys who can do all the things needed to win at least 1 of the 3 categories. But look at what Rice did in comparison to his peers during his playing days. I don't have to rehash the stats. They are available on earlier posts for anyone to read.

IMO, that defines, to an extent, why he was the most "feared" hitter in the AL. And that is why he gets in the HOF.

One more point. I did E-Mail to several local writers who have HOF votes. I asked them all the same questions regarding Rice. I started this 3 years ago, and send the E-Mails out annually. Only a couple of writer's bother to respond regarding who they vote for, which surprises me. And they all voted for Rice (so they tell me) except for 1 fellow, who claims that Rice is a slugger, and his Slugging should have been higher since he played half his games in Fenway. Etc. When I replied with points about how he stood for a 12 year period, leading the Al or the Majors in so many offensive categories, the response was....."well, in my opinion, he still doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't in the same league as Mantle or Mays or Williams."

I responded to that that about 98% of the hitters in the HOF weren't in the same league as Mantle, Mays or Williams.

Never heard back from the guy. I wonder why;)

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Know what?

Your Martin comparison with Yaz is not bad. Like Yaz in 1967, Curtis had that one great year where he led the league in Rushing. He also had many very good years where he reached a very accepted standard for rushing yards. But he was rarely, except for in the eyes of Jets fans, listed among the all time great backs, or even among the best of his era.

Yaz had a very great season when he won the triple crown. It is an accomplishment that is indeed rare in Baseball, and will be more difficult, in my opinion, in the future. There are too many guys who can do all the things needed to win at least 1 of the 3 categories. But look at what Rice did in comparison to his peers during his playing days. I don't have to rehash the stats. They are available on earlier posts for anyone to read.

IMO, that defines, to an extent, why he was the most "feared" hitter in the AL. And that is why he gets in the HOF.

One more point. I did E-Mail to several local writers who have HOF votes. I asked them all the same questions regarding Rice. I started this 3 years ago, and send the E-Mails out annually. Only a couple of writer's bother to respond regarding who they vote for, which surprises me. And they all voted for Rice (so they tell me) except for 1 fellow, who claims that Rice is a slugger, and his Slugging should have been higher since he played half his games in Fenway. Etc. When I replied with points about how he stood for a 12 year period, leading the Al or the Majors in so many offensive categories, the response was....."well, in my opinion, he still doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't in the same league as Mantle or Mays or Williams."

I responded to that that about 98% of the hitters in the HOF weren't in the same league as Mantle, Mays or Williams.

Never heard back from the guy. I wonder why;)

More than likely you haven't heard back from this guy because it would become a pissing contest, just like this thread.

His reference to Mantle and Mays is a joke. He should be measured against the guys who are in the HOF that played his position....guys like Williams (which you really can't compare) and so forth. Again, someone please give me a HOF inductee who was voted in because he was a "feared hitter"?

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More than likely you haven't heard back from this guy because it would become a pissing contest, just like this thread.

His reference to Mantle and Mays is a joke. He should be measured against the guys who are in the HOF that played his position....guys like Williams (which you really can't compare) and so forth. Again, someone please give me a HOF inductee who was voted in because he was a "feared hitter"?

If you measure current HOF candidates against guys who played the position, then there would only be about 10 guys in the HOF. No other RF should be there besides Ruth. And how many first basemen hit like Gehrig? Especially those RBI numbers.

After all, how does Brock compare to Williams. In fact, Billy Williams pales when compared to Ted.

No. One needs to look at the players from each era. And in his era, Rice was among the best, if not the best.

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More than likely you haven't heard back from this guy because it would become a pissing contest, just like this thread.

His reference to Mantle and Mays is a joke. He should be measured against the guys who are in the HOF that played his position....guys like Williams (which you really can't compare) and so forth. Again, someone please give me a HOF inductee who was voted in because he was a "feared hitter"?

NS - I did this.

You used some unamed reference who used career numbers and an obscure stat for him not getting in. I showed Rice' numbers were better then all but the true all-time greats. He just did not play as long. He was middle of the pact of the 9 HofFers.

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