Scott Dierking Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 You Met fans are too much...what kind of numbers would Wright be putting up if he batted at or near the bottom of the Mets lineup like Cano has his entire career with the Yanks? We could be talking about a .250 hitter with that Mets lineup. And as far as Cano not reaching his ceiling. I've never heard one unbiased announcer ever say Wright could be better than he is right now...yet, I hear those same announcers compare Cano to Carew and almost all agree he hasn't reached his power potential yet. And you "Yankee guys" with crystal balls, and announcer hypothesis are really something too. The numbers are what they are, you can't change them. Moreso, you can't realistically hypothesize with any accuracy if you would switch spots. That is Fantasy baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I tell you wat, if you have first overall pick in the JN Fantasy league, you better take Wright. If you do, I will take Cano with my first pick. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Avg is the most important thing. ranted they are not spearated by much, but getting on base is more important than driving in runs and itting home runs. Lots of things happen on the base pads. An all or nothing guy(Rob Deer) is a waste. Not saying Wright or Cano is one of them, but Avg is more important then HR's. RBI's are important also, ut so are runs. Base path knowldge, going form first to third, all tiese things add up and from what I see in Cano, he will mature into power, he has good speed and can run the bases. I would take my chances with him over Wright. That is your opinion. Average, in my mind is the LEAST importnat thing, while PRODUCTION is important. I am not saying that Cano has empty production, just that average is overrated. Give me someone who is "clutch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 And you "Yankee guys" with crystal balls, and announcer hypothesis are really something too. The numbers are what they are, you can't change them. Moreso, you can't realistically hypothesize with any accuracy if you would switch spots. That is Fantasy baseball. It's called opinions Scotty...we all have them. And that's what we're doing here, voicing our opinions. Now, you can post here all day long and ridicule another poster's opinion because you don't agree...knock yourself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I tell you wat, if you have first overall pick in the JN Fantasy league, you better take Wright. If you do, I will take Cano with my first pick. Deal? Smizzy won't allow me to play. I am married. If I had first overall pick, I would take A-Rod. That is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It's called opinions Scotty...we all have them. And that's what we're doing here, voicing our opinions. Now, you can post here all day long and ridicule another poster's opinion because you don't agree...knock yourself out. NS-Show me where I have "ridiculed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 NS-Show me where I have "ridiculed". Saying Yankee fans have "Crystall balls" I would say for starters...ridicule, sarcasm, etc., whatever you want to label it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Saying Yankee fans have "Crystall balls" I would say for starters...ridicule, sarcasm, etc., whatever you want to label it. If you are offended by that statemnt, I am truly sorry. I was just commenting on "projecting" stats. People that do that, do so without much basis and it is a flawed logic to bring into a dialogue debating present value. Just my opinion. Again, if the term crystal ball offends you, I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 If you are offended by that statemnt, I am truly sorry. I was just commenting on "projecting" stats. People that do that, do so without much basis and it is a flawed logic to bring into a dialogue debating present value. Just my opinion. Again, if the term crystal ball offends you, I am sorry. No need to apologize. I would have these debates all the time when I was a kid. What if Mickey Mantle played in Ebbetts Field...what would his power numbers look like? What if Hank Aaron played in Yankee Stadium...what would his power number look like? How many HR's would Ted Williams hit with that short right field porch in Yankee Stadium...it goes on and on...it's all hypothetical BS...but, that's what these debates bring...you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Saying Yankee fans have "Crystall balls" I would say for starters...ridicule, sarcasm, etc., whatever you want to label it. Agreed, forums such as this one, it's for like minded folks sharing different opinions, but a statement such as "Wright could be a .250 hitter batting in the bottom half of the Mets lineup" Well that deserves to be ridiculed. That makes no sense in any universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Agreed, forums such as this one, it's for like minded folks sharing different opinions, but a statement such as "Wright could be a .250 hitter batting in the bottom half of the Mets lineup" Well that deserves to be ridiculed. That makes no sense in any universe. It's called exaggerating my point...the point is, he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is now batting in the heart of the Mets lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It's called exaggerating my point...the point is, he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is now batting in the heart of the Mets lineup. Its an invalid point. Fact of the matter is Wright is a heart of the order guy. Same goes for Cano, if he were playing for KC or something, who knows what his numbers would be? I'm not going to think he'd hit .250. Players for the most part will perform up to their standards, with a slight increase/decrease in production due to the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You Met fans are too much...what kind of numbers would Wright be putting up if he batted at or near the bottom of the Mets lineup like Cano has his entire career with the Yanks? We could be talking about a .250 hitter with that Mets lineup. And as far as Cano not reaching his ceiling. I've never heard one unbiased announcer ever say Wright could be better than he is right now...yet, I hear those same announcers compare Cano to Carew and almost all agree he hasn't reached his power potential yet. Actually Cano did hit .250 out of the ninth spot last year.....he hit .280 out of the 8th spot and .342 out of the 7th spot. Hitting near the bottom of a AL order is also far different than a NL one. Wright would drive in 140 runs in the Yankee line-up. Bottom line, Cano is a very,very good player. David Wright simply happens to be better. Much better. The potential argument falls on deaf ears as David Wright is the same age as Cano and has the same chance to improve on his already lofty numbers. Wright has also gotten better every season while Cano arguably took a step back last year from his 2006 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 David Wright simply happens to be better. Much better. . Where are you getting this from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Cano has more growth potential from this point on, than David Wright. It doesnt take a genius to see that. And again, an offensive 2nd baseman is rarer to find than an offensive 3rd baseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I'd take Cano, because you can always pick up a great 3rd baseman later on. Second baseman aren't really known for their offensive capabilities. So I'd take cano with my 1st pick and someone just as good as or a little bit worse than wright with my second pick. If you pick wright first who are you going to get to play second who is as good as Cano? I think that it what some people are trying to say. Individually Wright may be a better overall hitter but the fact that he does it from a position that has so many great hitters it really isn't a hard thing to find someone capable of replacing him offensively. The Yankees have Cano and a third baseman who is better than Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Actually Cano did hit .250 out of the ninth spot last year.....he hit .280 out of the 8th spot and .342 out of the 7th spot. Hitting near the bottom of a AL order is also far different than a NL one. Wright would drive in 140 runs in the Yankee line-up. Bottom line, Cano is a very,very good player. David Wright simply happens to be better. Much better. The potential argument falls on deaf ears as David Wright is the same age as Cano and has the same chance to improve on his already lofty numbers. Wright has also gotten better every season while Cano arguably took a step back last year from his 2006 season. LOL...you are kidding me? I sure hope so with the 140 rbi thing...as soon as I read that, I quit reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Cano has more growth potential from this point on, than David Wright. It doesnt take a genius to see that. You always know where you stand, when someone brings up "potential " in a debate Does your statement mean he has greater access to steroids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Individually Wright may be a better hitter May? May? Can anyone please post any stats that prove otherwise? From the Cano perspective, all we get is rhetoric and "potential". Cano debaters, how about some hard NUMBERS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Actually Cano did hit .250 out of the ninth spot last year.....he hit .280 out of the 8th spot and .342 out of the 7th spot. Hitting near the bottom of a AL order is also far different than a NL one. Wright would drive in 140 runs in the Yankee line-up. Bottom line, Cano is a very,very good player. David Wright simply happens to be better. Much better. The potential argument falls on deaf ears as David Wright is the same age as Cano and has the same chance to improve on his already lofty numbers. Wright has also gotten better every season while Cano arguably took a step back last year from his 2006 season. Leave it to you to call people homers and then post statistics that only you would dream about. A-Rod doesn't even drive in 140 runs every year with all of the production in the three spots in front of him. There's no question that Wright is a better player than Cano. Who's more valuable to a team? Probably Wright, but it's closer than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 To try an analyze your dance, Cano over Wright if these were your only 2 options as 1st pick? Who else is available at 2B, and who else is available at 3B? It is most probable that I will be able to secure a decent facsimile for a power hitter at 3B in another round. At 2B, it is unlikely that I will get anything close to the all around package that Cano is, because Utley is off the board, if Cano is my best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Where are you getting this from? Look at what each has done to date in their careers. It's not close. Wright is a 30-30 player who ALSO hits for average, drives in and scores runs and has a GG under his belt to boot. Cano has never hit 20 HR's and has no speed. I am amazed that some Yankee fans consider this a debateable topic. Maybe in the future things will change but right now there is one player in NY better than Wright and that's ARod. The rest of the field come in a distant third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Cano has more growth potential from this point on, than David Wright. It doesnt take a genius to see that. And again, an offensive 2nd baseman is rarer to find than an offensive 3rd baseman. LOL. why because you say so? Wright actuallly has improved every season while Cano was better in 06 than last season. Cano will never have the season Wright just had. He doesn't have the power or speed and when you use the phrase "growth potential" I don't get your point as they are both the same age. You need to go list out the years other 2b had last season compared to Cano. Wrights numbers are much more rare than Cano's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 LOL. why because you say so? Wright actuallly has improved every season while Cano was better in 06 than last season. Cano will never have the season Wright just had. He doesn't have the power or speed and when you use the phrase "growth potential" I don't get your point as they are both the same age. You need to go list out the years other 2b had last season compared to Cano. Wrights numbers are much more rare than Cano's. Robinson Cano was 3rd in the league in OPS last year as a 2nd baseman; behind Chase Utley and Jeff Kent. David Wright was 4th in the league in OPS last year as a 3rd baseman; behind Arod, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Braun. So, uh, how is Wright "far better" when you take into account positional values? Cano actually has the edge in OPS at his position over Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Robinson Cano was 3rd in the league in OPS last year as a 2nd baseman; behind Chase Utley and Jeff Kent. David Wright was 4th in the league in OPS last year as a 3rd baseman; behind Arod, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Braun. So, uh, how is Wright "far better" when you take into account positional values? Cano actually has the edge in OPS at his position over Wright. The only reason this "positional value" garbage is being brought up is because it's the only way to make Cano look like he's in the same league as David Wright. I think the original discussion here came from somebody saying Cano is Better than Wright. Cano is a great young player. Wright is a much better young player. Five tool player compared to a three tool player. Silly argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Robinson Cano was 3rd in the league in OPS last year as a 2nd baseman; behind Chase Utley and Jeff Kent. David Wright was 4th in the league in OPS last year as a 3rd baseman; behind Arod, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Braun. So, uh, how is Wright "far better" when you take into account positional values? Cano actually has the edge in OPS at his position over Wright. So Barton, If I am to believe your rankings (and I have no reason not to), what you are essentially telling us is that Cano finished THIRD, in a position that has relatively few hitters (Cano defenders own words), and Wright finished FOURTH in a position that is chock full of them . Exactly how is that a testament to the greatness of Cano then? You guys already said second base is devoid of quality hitters. How hard is it to finish high in a ranking if there is not much competition? Why don't you comnpare WQrights and Cano's numbers to EACH OTHER. THEN tell me how much more 2nd base is valued over 3rd base Barton, if you would like, I can have Mx set us up with a public debate, mano a mano on this topic. Which player is more valuable to a franchise at this stage of his career-David Wright or Robinson Cano. I promise I will not be an ecurb in this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ................. I promise I will not be an ecurb in this debate. Excellent ending!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 So Barton, If I am to believe your rankings (and I have no reason not to), what you are essentially telling us is that Cano finished THIRD, in a position that has relatively few hitters (Cano defenders own words), and Wright finished FOURTH in a position that is chock full of them . Exactly how is that a testament to the greatness of Cano then? You guys already said second base is devoid of quality hitters. How hard is it to finish high in a ranking if there is not much competition? Why don't you comnpare WQrights and Cano's numbers to EACH OTHER. THEN tell me how much more 2nd base is valued over 3rd base Barton, if you would like, I can have Mx set us up with a public debate, mano a mano on this topic. Which player is more valuable to a franchise at this stage of his career-David Wright or Robinson Cano. I promise I will not be an ecurb in this debate. Homeslice, I already said Wright is a better player than Cano. Just not "far better" like some people think. 2nd base has ALWAYS been a position devoid of a large number of great hitters, all through MLB history. Very few MLB players can play a middle infield position (such as 2B, or SS) and hit like a Robinson Cano. Thats why you dont compare a 2nd basemans numbers to a 3rd baseman (a position thats opposite of a 2nd baseman, in that it is known to be a position of power and offense). You compare middle infielders to middle infielders (2B and SS) not middle infielders to corner infielders (3B and 1B). I'll put it this way. If Cano was a 3rd baseman would he be nearly as valuable to a team as him being a 2nd baseman? Of course not. Because different positions have far different values. There's nothing to debate about that, its just a fact. And I'll put it this way, if Wright was able to play 2nd base, he'd be playing there because he'd be more valuable at that position than at 3rd base - despite him being 1 of the top 5 3rd basemans in the league. Because he'd be the absolute best 2nd baseman in the league if he could play the position, but of course he cannot. This is common sense baseball 101 stuff, I dont really see what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 The only reason this "positional value" garbage is being brought up is because it's the only way to make Cano look like he's in the same league as David Wright. I think the original discussion here came from somebody saying Cano is Better than Wright. Cano is a great young player. Wright is a much better young player. Five tool player compared to a three tool player. Silly argument. Thank You. Young Barton likes to cherry pick his stats in this foolish argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Thank You. Young Barton likes to cherry pick his stats in this foolish argument. Yeah, I cherry picked OPS. Never heard of that stat, I just kinda made it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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