WOW - Senate Investigation - NFL/Pats

[Garb]

I rest my case.

You are the biggest hypocrite on this site.

Um -okay

Stop being such a whiney baby,! You're smarter than that.

[JerryK]

Forgive me, I don't have time to read all of this, but here's my question:

I don't like the Pats any more than anyone else here, but what LAW of the US Government did they break? ....This is a game.

We pay for tickets and expensive beer to watch men in tight pants and shiny hats bump into each other...on PRIVATE PROPERTY. How is the law interested in whether they cheat?

-steroids are one thing...they're illegal. But a videocamera? That building had probably 100 cameras rolling that day.

If my kid peeks at a card on the floor playing "go fish" does he get a senate investigation too?

[Barton]

Um -okay

Stop being such a whiney baby,! You're smarter than that.

Oh, well look who's talking.

[Garb]

Oh, well look who's talking.

Nah, nah, nah, nah - my dad could beat up your dad.....

[KSJets]

If my kid peeks at a card on the floor playing "go fish" does he get a senate investigation too?

Yes, you better tell him to stop

[RSJ]

Where'd you get that one? I thought the exemption had more to do with team collusion and the TV contracts. The USFL and AFL played in the fall and they weren't regulated out of existence. Start up leagues WFL, USFL, Arena football don't play in the fall to avoid going head to head with the NFL juggernaut, not because it's illegal. The USFL won their case, they just got scumbagged with the verdict.

Specter is going after the NFL on the TV deal and the NFL network because he feels it's in violation of the Sherman Act. I haven't read much about it, but I assume Specter is trying to drum up public support from people being dicked around by the fight between the cable companies and NFL network. Keep fighting with me and I'll have to research it. Believe me, nobody wants that.

I'm looking up a link as we speak - but I heard an interview with Joe Leiberman on the radio and he said that no other profesional sports team can hold their games during the fall. That is the reason no other league has been started up in the fall. The fall is probably the best time to have a sport going on regardless of competition. Most people are sitting inside watching TV due to the weather.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

Forgive me, I don't have time to read all of this, but here's my question:

I don't like the Pats any more than anyone else here, but what LAW of the US Government did they break? ....This is a game.

We pay for tickets and expensive beer to watch men in tight pants and shiny hats bump into each other...on PRIVATE PROPERTY. How is the law interested in whether they cheat?

-steroids are one thing...they're illegal. But a videocamera? That building had probably 100 cameras rolling that day.

If my kid peeks at a card on the floor playing "go fish" does he get a senate investigation too?

The league is a business like any other. People spend a ton of money on this business because it is presumably fair. If the NFL is covering up information of cheating, then the people who are giving their money to that business have a right to know.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

from profootballtalk.com

MEET MATT WALSH

Buried in the Friday New York Times article regarding the desire of Senator Arlen Specter are the first on-the-record comments regarding Spygate from Matt Walsh.

Who's Matt Walsh, you ask? He was an employee of the New England Patriots from 1996 through 2003, spending most of his time there in the video department.

Matt Walsh is now an assistant golf pro in Hawaii. And the Times sent a reporter all the way there to interview him.

As talk goes among some of the folks we know in the NFL media, Walsh knows something. Something big.

We're not reporting at this time that Walsh knows anything. But we know for a fact that multiple members of the media were chasing Walsh in the wake of Spygate, trying to get him to talk on the record about what he knows. One came fairly close, but it ultimately didn't happen.

Why? Because Walsh is scared. And rightfully so. He's scared of getting sued into Mike Tyson-style bolivian.

"After speaking to my lawyers and whatnot, I can't really talk to you about anything," Walsh told the Times. "And I can't show you anything. If someone wanted me to talk and tell them things, I would craft an agreement where they would agree from now until the end of my existence to pay for any legal fees that came up in regards to this, whether I'm sued by the Patriots, the [NFL], anybody else."

Wow.

Folks, guys don't say things like that when they don't know anything, or when they don't think that what they know is important.

And though we don't know what Walsh knows, we know what a couple of writers think that he knows. If they're right, and if Walsh talks, it could have huge ramifications.

We know that our bread is partially buttered by the NFL, and we appreciate the relationship. But every owner, G.M., coach, and player is a steward of a game that hopefully will continue for centuries after we're all gone. So we're committed to holding today's stewards of the game accountable for their actions, even if it makes said stewards of the game upset with us. One way or another, Walsh needs to have a forum to tell what he knows. He might collapse like a wet cracker under cross examination, or his story might be flimsier than a kite made out of Kleenex. But this guy has a story to tell, and it needs to be heard.

"If I ever got brought in for a deposition or something, then I would just face the whole gauntlet of questions," Walsh said. "There would be things I'd be forced to answer that some people haven't taken responsibility for."

[#27TheDominator]

I'm looking up a link as we speak - but I heard an interview with Joe Leiberman on the radio and he said that no other profesional sports team can hold their games during the fall. That is the reason no other league has been started up in the fall. The fall is probably the best time to have a sport going on regardless of competition. Most people are sitting inside watching TV due to the weather.

I await your link, but I'm 100% sure that is false. Whatever ban you seem to recall it can only deal with football. Obviously other professional sports teams can hold their games during the fall. The NFL and NHL start earlier and earlier and the world series gets later and later.

The USFL, who won their case v. the NFL, played in the spring, but were set to switch to a fall schedule. The AFL played during the fall and I'm pretty sure that the anti-trust exemption and legislation dates back to '61 and '66.

You are probably remembering that the NFL can't televise games played within 75 miles of a college or high school football game. The NCAA pushed this one through the keep the NFL from expanding to Saturday and costing them big money. It affected that Dolphin game they moved to Saturday afternoon because of the hurricane.

With all due respect to your theories about fall TV habits, the USFL expressly stated that they were starting in the spring to avoid competition until they were established. Be realistic, how many people on this site would watch a competing league if they played opposite the Jets game? I'll bet plenty would watch if they were on opposite the Mets or Islanders.

[RSJ]

I await your link, but I'm 100% sure that is false. Whatever ban you seem to recall it can only deal with football. Obviously other professional sports teams can hold their games during the fall. The NFL and NHL start earlier and earlier and the world series gets later and later.

The USFL, who won their case v. the NFL, played in the spring, but were set to switch to a fall schedule. The AFL played during the fall and I'm pretty sure that the anti-trust exemption and legislation dates back to '61 and '66.

You are probably remembering that the NFL can't televise games played within 75 miles of a college or high school football game. The NCAA pushed this one through the keep the NFL from expanding to Saturday and costing them big money. It affected that Dolphin game they moved to Saturday afternoon because of the hurricane.

With all due respect to your theories about fall TV habits, the USFL expressly stated that they were starting in the spring to avoid competition until they were established. Be realistic, how many people on this site would watch a competing league if they played opposite the Jets game? I'll bet plenty would watch if they were on opposite the Mets or Islanders.

I'm going to write to the radio station to try to find out if I can get a link to the interview. I meant that there shall be no competing professional football team allowed to play in the fall. I know what I heard and I will get a link - but it may take a little time.

[RayLewis]

Six tapes were handed over, from late 2006 season and 2007 preseason games. Also, notes were handed over. It was unclear if any of the stuff was obtained legally or illegally, so it was still confiscated and destroyed -- Goodell at his State of the NFL preser.

His answers to questions --

"every team knows its signals are being stolen by other teams"

"every team takes measures during a game knowing their signals are being stolen"

"on one tape, an opposing coach is seen waving at the camera"

"the Patriots gained no competitive advantage from those tapes"

And why were they destroyed?

"If the tapes ever surface, I will know that they didnt turn over all of the tapes as they were instructed."

[Barton]

That is easily some of the worst logic I have ever heard. And its from an NFL commissioner. Nice.

[Ranger]

for those that say it's not a crime and it's just a game......the NFL is major corporation!!! and the job of the government is to regulate Big Business......yes there is a Senate committee for those issues...it's their job.

[rillo]

That is easily some of the worst logic I have ever heard. And its from an NFL commissioner. Nice.

Kraft and Goodell have a 'close personal relationship'. This really isn't a surprised.

[RayLewis]

That is easily some of the worst logic I have ever heard. And its from an NFL commissioner. Nice.

So what do you think he should have done, oh wise one?

Another reason he had them destroyed was one tape was leaked to the media just after the Patriots-Jets game. "We wanted to take and destroy that information," he said. "They may have collected it within the rules, but we couldn't determine that. So we felt that it should be destroyed."

[Damaged89]

for those that say it's not a crime and it's just a game......the NFL is major corporation!!! and the job of the government is to regulate Big Business......yes there is a Senate committee for those issue...it's their job.

Now, if a corporation is corrupt, shouldn't the Government step up and fix it?

I don't see Congress investigating ExxonMobile or Nike, or any other corporation that is ripping off the American consumer or abusing kids overseas. The NFL should be way, way down Congress' list of priorities.

[RSJ]

"Keeping the game off broadcast TV would have been a public relations and political nightmare for the NFL," Courtney said today. He added that according to state Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, the NFL is a federally protected operation with an exemption from anti-trust law that has helped the league make billions from television contracts.

http://joecourtney.com/news/2007/12/nfl-relents-giants-patriots-game-will.html

It was Joe Courtney and not Joe Lieberman.

I'm still looking for more on this.

[RSJ]

I don't see Congress investigating ExxonMobile or Nike, or any other corporation that is ripping off the American consumer or abusing kids overseas. The NFL should be way, way down Congress' list of priorities.

I'm not sure I understand your logic. Now it's the job of congress to make sure kids are old enough to work overseas? The problem with gas prices is not the corporations, but the dollar's value - again another topic.

[#27TheDominator]

for those that say it's not a crime and it's just a game......the NFL is major corporation!!! and the job of the government is to regulate Big Business......yes there is a Senate committee for those issues...it's their job.

Actually, the NFL is not incorporated at all.

[RayLewis]

Specter is a bitter Eagles fan.

[#27TheDominator]

http://joecourtney.com/news/2007/12/nfl-relents-giants-patriots-game-will.html

It was Joe Courtney and not Joe Lieberman.

I'm still looking for more on this.

You will find tons on the NFL's anti-trust exemption. I'm pretty positive that you will not find any regulation making it illegal to have another professional football league in the fall. Once again, this is about the TV money.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

I don't see Congress investigating ExxonMobile or Nike, or any other corporation that is ripping off the American consumer or abusing kids overseas. The NFL should be way, way down Congress' list of priorities.

abusing kids overseas? they don't have jurisdiction over such things.

they have however investigated many american corporations, come on. the nfl is a huge business and they should be held accountable just like anyone else.

[SouthernJet]

.

The ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee wants N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell to explain why the league destroyed evidence related to spying by the New England Patriots.

New England Coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 by the N.F.L. after the Patriots were caught stealing defensive signals.

."

[RSJ]

You will find tons on the NFL's anti-trust exemption. I'm pretty positive that you will not find any regulation making it illegal to have another professional football league in the fall. Once again, this is about the TV money.

I'm pretty positive that the television anti trust does not allow other pro fottball teams games to be aired in the fall. Again, I know what I heard and I will find a copy of the tape. And ofcourse he could be very wrong.

[RSJ]

abusing kids overseas? they don't have jurisdiction over such things.

they have however investigated many american corporations, come on. the nfl is a huge business and they should be held accountable just like anyone else.

This is getting OT - I agree that the NFL should be held accountable like everyone else.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm pretty positive that the television anti trust does not allow other pro fottball teams games to be aired in the fall. Again, I know what I heard and I will find a copy of the tape.

I think you are missing the definition/purpose of the anti-trust exemption. The anti-trust laws, like the Sherman Act are in place to keep monopolies from gaining an unfair advantage, running all competition out of the market and then raising prices. The American system is based upon free market competition, so it's against our best interests to have a monopoly with no competition. The anti-trust exemption is not the goverment actually dictating that the NFL has a monopoly, it's the government allowing the NFL monopoly to exist.

What probably happens is that the NFL monopoly exists because of the exemption and then the TV contracts themselves do not allow the networks to televise any non-NFL football in the fall. I'm not sure who has what TV contract, but at this point they probably have enough hands in that pie that they can't fight the NFL. The NFL network is what is causing all the yapping because rather than the monopoly forcing what is right (like airing the Giants-Pats game on broadcast TV) the monopoly is actually trying to make more money by forcing people to pay premium prices with their cable providers. There is no actual law against another fall league, but in practice it's almost impossible to go up against big pappa.

[BUM-KNEE]

Can't see your obstruction of justice argument...

---He added: "What if there was something on the tapes we might want to be subpoenaed, for example? You can't destroy it. That would be obstruction of justice.---

That is from the article.

[Alk]

Goodell was asked about the whole Spygate situation today. One of the posters at Patriots Planet was able to transcribe it.

This is a word for word transcript of Goodell's comments in his press conference.

Q: There are still a lot of unanswered questions. You've never said why did they do it when they're such a good team, how long were they doing it? What advantage did they get out of it? What did they do with the information? Did it help them win any games? Did you find out the answers to those questions?

A: Well first off, the answers to why they did it, I think that'd have to be addressed by the New England Patriots. That's not something that I was really concerned with.

As far as it relates to what we found, it was totally consistent with what the team told us. As a matter of fact, many of you saw it because one of the tapes was leaked. It's very clearly the coach making signals, and it shows the down and distance. It's not exciting. It's limited. I believe there were six tapes, and in fact in one of the tapes one of the coaches was waving at the camera indicating that they understood they were being taped.

So I think as far as the actual effectiveness, of taping signals, as you all know, taking signals from opposing football teams, or in other sports, is something that's done and it's done quite widely, and teams prepare for that. There isn't a team that doesn't go into a game because of the complex nature in the way they handle either their wristbands, different coaches sending signals in...one live, one not, they all protect against that.

So I think it probably had a limited effect, if ANY effect on the outcome of any games.

[#27TheDominator]

---He added: "What if there was something on the tapes we might want to be subpoenaed, for example? You can't destroy it. That would be obstruction of justice.---

That is from the article.

Ah, so I guess that I owe RSJ an apology, he is not the deluded paranoid lunatic. Arlen Specter is.

[BUM-KNEE]

If congress wants to investigate fine. IMO it will be a monumental waste of time and money. My objection was to your terminology. It was in no way criminal or an "obstruction of justice". If they feel there is some coverup, then our government should knock themselves out, but we both know it will amount to nothing.

If they were so concerned they should have struck while the iron was hot and this issue first arose. Not wait for tapes to be destroyed. This is basically one old moron looking for some press and a bunch of rabid Pats haters getting all excited.

Ok, so how are they going to "knock themselves out" if the actual physical evidence was destroyed? That in itself is O of J. Yep, they shouldve jumped in and took over the investigation from the get go, but that is hindsight being 20/20. Who thought Goodell wouldve handled the situation the way he did, when he took over with his "no nonsense" policies he seemed to be a man on a mission. Its after he had seemingly mishandled this situation that it garnered senate interest.

[drago]

it isn't illegal to cheat...the nfl could crown the pats the champs every year for the rest of time, it doesn't matter to them, or to congress. Cheating is not illegal, the NFL makes their rules, but the only rules they need to follow are the ones involving drugs in its players.

[afosomf]

Goodell was asked about the whole Spygate situation today. One of the posters at Patriots Planet was able to transcribe it.

This is a word for word transcript of Goodell's comments in his press conference.

Q: There are still a lot of unanswered questions. You've never said why did they do it when they're such a good team, how long were they doing it? What advantage did they get out of it? What did they do with the information? Did it help them win any games? Did you find out the answers to those questions?

A: Well first off, the answers to why they did it, I think that'd have to be addressed by the New England Patriots. That's not something that I was really concerned with.

As far as it relates to what we found, it was totally consistent with what the team told us. As a matter of fact, many of you saw it because one of the tapes was leaked. It's very clearly the coach making signals, and it shows the down and distance. It's not exciting. It's limited. I believe there were six tapes, and in fact in one of the tapes one of the coaches was waving at the camera indicating that they understood they were being taped.

So I think as far as the actual effectiveness, of taping signals, as you all know, taking signals from opposing football teams, or in other sports, is something that's done and it's done quite widely, and teams prepare for that. There isn't a team that doesn't go into a game because of the complex nature in the way they handle either their wristbands, different coaches sending signals in...one live, one not, they all protect against that.

So I think it probably had a limited effect, if ANY effect on the outcome of any games.

haha 6 tapes over last 6 years..yeah right:gfight:

[#27TheDominator]

Ok, so how are they going to "knock themselves out" if the actual physical evidence was destroyed? That in itself is O of J. Yep, they shouldve jumped in and took over the investigation from the get go, but that is hindsight being 20/20. Who thought Goodell wouldve handled the situation the way he did, when he took over with his "no nonsense" policies he seemed to be a man on a mission. Its after he had seemingly mishandled this situation that it garnered senate interest.

You do understand that this is a joke? The government did not express any interest in the tapes. Is the NFL going to be tried for "obstruction of justice" every time that they destroy a video tape because:

What if there was something on the tapes we might want to be subpoenaed, for example?

Nobody can throw away anything in case the government wants to subpoena it. Check. Gotcha.

This is a total joke. If they cared they should have expressed an interest at the time the matter first came to light. There was no reason for the NFL to expect them to care at all.

[BUM-KNEE]

You do understand that this is a joke? The government did not express any interest in the tapes. Is the NFL going to be tried for "obstruction of justice" every time that they destroy a video tape because: Nobody can throw away anything in case the government wants to subpoena it. Check. Gotcha.

This is a total joke. If they cared they should have expressed an interest at the time the matter first came to light. There was no reason for the NFL to expect them to care at all.

Ok, nothing at all should be done, just let everything stand as is. Gotcha

[#27TheDominator]

Ok, nothing at all should be done, just let everything stand as is. Gotcha

You think that is an unreasonable stance? How about this: if there is evidence of continued cheating then maybe the government should get involved to make sure the NFL is not providing a tainted product. Maybe. If there is no proof of further cheating or tampering then what could six (count 'em 6!) tapes of taped signals mean in the grand scheme of things? Be honest, do you honestly believe that the Pats stealing signals rates a Senate hearing?