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Cap Chat With Sperm


Maxman

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Cap Chat

Posted at 10:17 am in Featured Editorials by Max

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By Sperm Edwards

There has been some chatter about the future of some Jets players who are under contract for next year (or longer). I’m going to keep this to players that are ON the Jets, not make it an article-long wish-list of “we should get…” players with justification (if not rationalization) for each.

Let’s start with QB. Kellen Clemens is all but assured a spot on this team. Then there’s Chad Pennington, who lost the starting job in ‘07.

If Chad doesn’t win the job back they can trade him before the season starts. Of course by then, even though it clears up more ‘08 cap space, the big FA’s are generally gone and the draft is long since over.

Barring a pre-draft trade, or a mid/late-summer 2009/round 2 trade offer from some suddenly-desperate team who just lost their starting QB for the season, I think he stays in ‘08 whether he wins the job or not. I doubt they just dump him post-draft for the sake of dumping him. Mangini would probably be more than happy to have him as a backup, even if he is an overpriced one.

Personally, I’d rather throw his $5M salary at a lineman (or to upgrade from a $3M lineman to an $8M lineman), but what do I know.

Same thing goes for DRob. Would I rather have a $7.6M salary ($10M cap space) thrown at DRob or Asante Samuel (or other FA’s of greater value to this team: Suggs, Lilja, Faneca, Gross, Starks, or Haynesworth, among others)?

When you’re potentially this far under the cap (upwards of $40-45M with some big-salary departures), you can afford to not only throw big bonus money at newcomers, but you can really front-load the contract in year one in the form of a roster bonus instead of a signing bonus. The cap number on the remaining years become closer to the player’s true salary without the additional $3M-ish every year in amortized SB.

The Jets are (reportedly) at +$27M now.

They don’t even have to do post-6/1 releases to clear up more cap room. Meaning cutting them this year leaves zero dead cap space in ‘09 and beyond. The # in red is the additional savings if we designate the player as a post 6/1 cut, but that amount would become dead space in 2009:

- DRob = $5.5M / +$2M

- Chad = $1.8M / +$3M

- Barrett = $3M / +$1M

- Barton = $3M / (same; it’s his last yr anyway)

- McCareins = $2M / +$1M (I’m a little shaky on his # b/c the Jets fudged with it a little in the late fall)

- Vilma = $1M (same; it’s his last yr anyway) (would be for a trade; not for cap relief)

———————-

$42-43M under the ‘08 cap. Without losing a single player who should be in the long-term plans of a team that uses a 3-4 base defense, and without any future dead cap space from these players’ departures.

Now there are other possibilities via trade/release as well:

- Coles $2-3M / +$2-3M (like Vilma, via trade; I can’t see him being released)

- Ellis is roughly a break-even; costs ~the same to keep him, so again he’ll probably be on the team unless they get a good trade offer. +$2M? post 6/1?

- Dyson would be a similar break-even; if he goes it’s because Mangini wants him off the team. He makes nothing in salary ($1.2M) for a potential starting CB. +$1.2M post 6/1.

So the potential is there to be have almost $60M of cap space cleared up for 2008. But that’s a fantasy-land number. It doesn’t make fiscal sense, as you can’t (practically) use $60M in cap room on FA’s in one year; there are other teams looking for FA’s themselves. Plus it would create $13M in new dead cap space for ‘09, which is absurd unless they are desperate for that space in ‘08 (which they are not).

Keep in mind there are a couple of significant new contracts we’re already looking at:

- Rhodes(there is absolutely no reason to fail to re-sign him). Guessing in the $4-6M/yr range since there’s no bidding-war for him with a year left on his rookie deal, but I really don’t know what the target price tag would be for him since he wasn’t even a second alternate for the pro bowl.

- #6 overall pick (based on LaRon Landry’s ‘07 rookie contract)should be in the range of 5-6 yrs @ $8.5M/yr with ~$18-19M in bonus/guarantees. Though I don’t know how much of that deal is in incentives he may never realistically reach (not salary & not guaranteed/scheduled bonus money).

I think we’re still paying about $2M this year for Kimo’s ‘06 contract.

On the plus-side, Curtis Martin is now (finally) off the books.

It should be an exciting spring for the Jets. If not, I’ll post Mike Tannenbaum’s home & cell phone numbers here, lol.

Go Jets!

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Great post, SE. I hope the FO feels our sense of urgency.

I have no inherent problem with the "stay the course" stuff. The problem is I can't really see what course we're on after two full seasons. I will never understand how they made the immediate switch to a 3-4 defense in '06 without a true NT, without a single true 3-4 ILB'er, without a single, established pass-rushing threat at OLB (e.g. sticking with Hobson & his his 4.9 speed rushing the QB's blind side), without 2 true 3-4 ends (though I suppose one could argue they thought Ellis/Kimo would be good enough, at least in the short term).

Added to this, they seemed to acquire - and retain - a lot of players that were either backup talent or merely average-type talent as starters:

- Anthony Clement

- Adriane Clarke

- Will Montgomery

- Wade Smith

- Lee Suggs (before he failed his physical)

- Kimo von Suckiness

- Patrick Ramsey

- Kevan Barlow

- Kenyon Coleman (who did turn into a legit starter at end but is merely average)

- Matt Chatham (remember what a big deal it supposedly was when we "stole" this high-character scrub from BB? lol)

- Ray Mickens (yeah, remember we re-signed him & then released him?)

- Brad Kassell

- Darrien Barnes

- David Bowens

- Abram Elam (who I generally like, if you can get past his once-every-game brain farts)

- Andre Dyson = was probably the best FA acquisition this team made in terms of $ value but the move only paid dividends for (most of) 2006 before flopping miserably in 2007.

- CJ Mosely = was a fine depth acquisition & a decent trade, considering I think we got him as an even-swap for Bollinger. But it was still a backup-for-backup trade; hardly earth-shattering.

- Thomas Jones = was just a dumb trade. He's a fine RB. Nothing special but there are worse talents out there (like his own brother). But for a day-one pick and a $20M contract with $12M up front, it was a poor-value acquisition. He'll look a lot better behind a better line, but my argument is: who wouldn't? Friggin' Leon averaged 5.0ypc behind this suck-job OL & we hardly see him on offense.

- Bryan Thomas = inherited, but it was this FO that extended him past his rookie contract

- Ben Graham = who (like B.Thomas) really crappied it up after getting a nice contract extension

- Trey Teague

- Tim Dwight

- Hank Poteat

- Sean Ryan

- Marques Tuiasosopo

I mean if most of these guys didn't play for the Jets (or NE before that), would you have even heard of half of them? This sorry-ass list represents Tangini's non-rookie acquisitions through two seasons. Am I missing anyone?

:smilies2_puke:

It's like a who's-who list of afterthought talents, mixed in with some total garbage.

But at least they have good character. So this way they don't mope quite so much when we lose.

We have enough cap room to right some of these (considerable) wrongs. Hopefully they won't totally disappoint us again.

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I have no inherent problem with the "stay the course" stuff. The problem is I can't really see what course we're on after two full seasons. I will never understand how they made the immediate switch to a 3-4 defense in '06 without a true NT, without a single true 3-4 ILB'er, without a single, established pass-rushing threat at OLB (e.g. sticking with Hobson & his his 4.9 speed rushing the QB's blind side), without 2 true 3-4 ends (though I suppose one could argue they thought Ellis/Kimo would be good enough, at least in the short term).

Added to this, they seemed to acquire - and retain - a lot of players that were either backup talent or merely average-type talent as starters:

- Anthony Clement

- Adriane Clarke

- Will Montgomery

- Wade Smith

- Lee Suggs (before he failed his physical)

- Kimo von Suckiness

- Patrick Ramsey

- Kevan Barlow

- Kenyon Coleman (who did turn into a legit starter at end but is merely average)

- Matt Chatham (remember what a big deal it supposedly was when we "stole" this high-character scrub from BB? lol)

- Ray Mickens (yeah, remember we re-signed him & then released him?)

- Brad Kassell

- Darrien Barnes

- David Bowens

- Abram Elam (who I generally like, if you can get past his once-every-game brain farts)

- Kevin Dyson = was probably the best FA acquisition this team made in terms of $ value but the move only paid dividends for (most of) 2006 before flopping miserably in 2007.

- CJ Mosely = was a fine depth acquisition & a decent trade, considering I think we got him as an even-swap for Bollinger. But it was still a backup-for-backup trade; hardly earth-shattering.

- Thomas Jones = was just a dumb trade. He's a fine RB. Nothing special but there are worse talents out there (like his own brother). But for a day-one pick and a $20M contract with $12M up front, it was a poor-value acquisition. He'll look a lot better behind a better line, but my argument is: who wouldn't? Friggin' Leon averaged 5.0ypc behind this suck-job OL & we hardly see him on offense.

- Bryan Thomas = inherited, but it was this FO that extended him past his rookie contract

- Ben Graham = who (like B.Thomas) really crappied it up after getting a nice contract extension

- Trey Teague

- Tim Dwight

- Hank Poteat

- Sean Ryan

- Marques Tuiasosopo

I mean if most of these guys didn't play for the Jets (or NE before that), would you have even heard of half of them? This sorry-ass list represents Tangini's non-rookie acquisitions through two seasons. Am I missing anyone?

:smilies2_puke:

It's like a who's-who list of afterthought talents, mixed in with some total garbage.

But at least they have good character. So this way they don't mope quite so much when we lose.

We have enough cap room to right some of these (considerable) wrongs. Hopefully they won't totally disappoint us again.

Yikes. Having it all on a single list really drives home the point.

I think you missed Murrell and the recent DT pickup from NE, but the point is clear enough without them :)

Well done, again.

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I have no inherent problem with the "stay the course" stuff. The problem is I can't really see what course we're on after two full seasons. I will never understand how they made the immediate switch to a 3-4 defense in '06 without a true NT, without a single true 3-4 ILB'er, without a single, established pass-rushing threat at OLB (e.g. sticking with Hobson & his his 4.9 speed rushing the QB's blind side), without 2 true 3-4 ends (though I suppose one could argue they thought Ellis/Kimo would be good enough, at least in the short term).

Added to this, they seemed to acquire - and retain - a lot of players that were either backup talent or merely average-type talent as starters:

- Anthony Clement

- Adriane Clarke

- Will Montgomery

- Wade Smith

- Lee Suggs (before he failed his physical)

- Kimo von Suckiness

- Patrick Ramsey

- Kevan Barlow

- Kenyon Coleman (who did turn into a legit starter at end but is merely average)

- Matt Chatham (remember what a big deal it supposedly was when we "stole" this high-character scrub from BB? lol)

- Ray Mickens (yeah, remember we re-signed him & then released him?)

- Brad Kassell

- Darrien Barnes

- David Bowens

- Abram Elam (who I generally like, if you can get past his once-every-game brain farts)

- Kevin Dyson = was probably the best FA acquisition this team made in terms of $ value but the move only paid dividends for (most of) 2006 before flopping miserably in 2007.

- CJ Mosely = was a fine depth acquisition & a decent trade, considering I think we got him as an even-swap for Bollinger. But it was still a backup-for-backup trade; hardly earth-shattering.

- Thomas Jones = was just a dumb trade. He's a fine RB. Nothing special but there are worse talents out there (like his own brother). But for a day-one pick and a $20M contract with $12M up front, it was a poor-value acquisition. He'll look a lot better behind a better line, but my argument is: who wouldn't? Friggin' Leon averaged 5.0ypc behind this suck-job OL & we hardly see him on offense.

- Bryan Thomas = inherited, but it was this FO that extended him past his rookie contract

- Ben Graham = who (like B.Thomas) really crappied it up after getting a nice contract extension

- Trey Teague

- Tim Dwight

- Hank Poteat

- Sean Ryan

- Marques Tuiasosopo

I mean if most of these guys didn't play for the Jets (or NE before that), would you have even heard of half of them? This sorry-ass list represents Tangini's non-rookie acquisitions through two seasons. Am I missing anyone?

:smilies2_puke:

It's like a who's-who list of afterthought talents, mixed in with some total garbage.

But at least they have good character. So this way they don't mope quite so much when we lose.

We have enough cap room to right some of these (considerable) wrongs. Hopefully they won't totally disappoint us again.

I have to agree that it is a list of real lame-o's. I can understand not running out and spending on a FA stud if he is not your guy, and holding on to the money for some stud who will be out there the following year. Well, this is the following year. Also, when Mangini came in there were not a lot of assistants available. Well, he has had two years now and Sutton is still here. This is it. Make or break. I actually do not think he would be fired after this year, but I will not take he or Tannenbaum seriously if they do not shake the tree this off-season. And that means a couple of stud FA's and a new DC.

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i think the worst thing that could have happened to the jets was the 10-6 in '06. that pushed the rebuilding out an additional year or 2 b/c the FO and CS actually thought they had a competitor. now that they realize they have a total lack of talent i think we will finally see some changes.

at this point i see 2009 as a realistic goal for a run at the title. the '08 off-season should be used to re-build the oline and add young talent anywhere possible. if i am the jets FO i would only target players under 30 - lilja, gross, starks, suggs, asomugha, samuel - any 3 would be dramatically improve this team and 30M is about what it would take to get it donw.

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The 2007 Jets had no business taking the "year off" from the draft/FA on their OL. Then made it even worse with the Kendall clusterf**k.

But hey - figuring we would have grabbed David Harris with our original 2nd-rounder, we got Thomas Jones & David Bowens & Jacob Bender instead of Leonard Davis/Derrick Dockery plus keeping our 3rd, 5th, and 6th round picks for other players.

Then we'd only need to grab one FA guard this year, could draft a RT, and we'd be solid. Instead we're going to sit through another year of Brandon Moore for some "continuity" (though I can't imagine what they saw that they'd want to continue) so we don't have to replace 3 starters in the same year.

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The 2007 Jets had no business taking the "year off" from the draft/FA on their OL. Then made it even worse with the Kendall clusterf**k.

But hey - figuring we would have grabbed David Harris with our original 2nd-rounder, we got Thomas Jones & David Bowens & Jacob Bender instead of Leonard Davis/Derrick Dockery plus keeping our 3rd, 5th, and 6th round picks for other players.

Then we'd only need to grab one FA guard this year, could draft a RT, and we'd be solid. Instead we're going to sit through another year of Brandon Moore for some "continuity" (though I can't imagine what they saw that they'd want to continue) so we don't have to replace 3 starters in the same year.

Not that I disagree, but playing devil's advocate, I'm not so sure they had the money to go after the guys they wanted in '07. I don't think they like Leoard Davis (fat, lazy bad at T, first year at G) particularly at that $$. IMO, they didn't have the money in '07 to get the FA they wanted so they took their lumps and prepared to load up this year. The only guy I remember them being interested in was Colombo who took a pretty large deal to stay in Dallas.

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Not that I disagree, but playing devil's advocate, I'm not so sure they had the money to go after the guys they wanted in '07. I don't think they like Leoard Davis (fat, lazy bad at T, first year at G) particularly at that $$. IMO, they didn't have the money in '07 to get the FA they wanted so they took their lumps and prepared to load up this year. The only guy I remember them being interested in was Colombo who took a pretty large deal to stay in Dallas.

They had the money; they didn't want to spend it at OG. They knew they were going to be plenty under the cap in '08 & could have made it happen.

Davis was the most expensive of the 3 big-money guards (Davis, Dockery, Steinbach). He got a $16M signing bonus. Over a 7-year contract that's $2.3M/yr amortized cap hit. His salary was $1M. 2008 salary is $750K. Then it balloons up to $5-6M/yr. Throw another $1M somewhere in there for another bonus like passing a physical in year one & you've got $24M over the first 3 years, which is what his deal nets. But on the cap, here's how it probably looks on his deal with Dallas:

2007: $4.3M cap hit

2008: $3.0M cap hit

2009: $7.5M cap hit

2010: $7.3M cap hit

2011-2013: $8.3M cap hit

I find it difficult to believe we could not have fit this under our cap. The real stinker in there is that we didn't save a dime last year by letting Kendall go. I think Kendall's '07 cap hit after releasing him still ended up being the the same as or within that $1M raise that he wanted.

So for roughly $5M last year we could have had our pick of (very young) guards AND Kendall. Instead we opted for neither & picked up a few extra $1-3M/yr scrubs instead of league-minimum scrubs in their place.

Most likely, the enormous increase in OG pricetags just caught Tannenbaum by surprise & thought it was ridiculous. Now it's the going rate & someone will eclipse Davis' deal.

But your point about Davis' history is why I usually hit home on Dockery more than Davis. He was a known quantity at guard. Davis' contract was still largely based on his massive potential dating back to his rookie draft rather than what he'd done on the field.

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They had the money; they didn't want to spend it at OG. They knew they were going to be plenty under the cap in '08 & could have made it happen.

Davis was the most expensive of the 3 big-money guards (Davis, Dockery, Steinbach). He got a $16M signing bonus. Over a 7-year contract that's $2.3M/yr amortized cap hit. His salary was $1M. 2008 salary is $750K. Then it balloons up to $5-6M/yr. Throw another $1M somewhere in there for another bonus like passing a physical in year one & you've got $24M over the first 3 years, which is what his deal nets. But on the cap, here's how it probably looks on his deal with Dallas:

2007: $4.3M cap hit

2008: $3.0M cap hit

2009: $7.5M cap hit

2010: $7.3M cap hit

2011-2013: $8.3M cap hit

I find it difficult to believe we could not have fit this under our cap. The real stinker in there is that we didn't save a dime last year by letting Kendall go. I think Kendall's '07 cap hit after releasing him still ended up being the the same as or within that $1M raise that he wanted.

So for roughly $5M last year we could have had our pick of (very young) guards AND Kendall. Instead we opted for neither & picked up a few extra $1-3M/yr scrubs instead of league-minimum scrubs in their place.

Most likely, the enormous increase in OG pricetags just caught Tannenbaum by surprise & thought it was ridiculous. Now it's the going rate & someone will eclipse Davis' deal.

But your point about Davis' history is why I usually hit home on Dockery more than Davis. He was a known quantity at guard. Davis' contract was still largely based on his massive potential dating back to his rookie draft rather than what he'd done on the field.

I agree completely. I was ranting about this last year. I NEVER liked Davis for this team though. High ceiling, low floor. They needed a higher floor for that expenditure. Dockery or Steinbach sure. I wanted Colombo the most because (I assumed Kendall would return) I felt RT was the weak spot. They may have been targeting people though. They had Stacy Andrews in last year as a RFA. Let's see if they were waiting for him and pounce or if they are the cheap, weak ass bastards we've been ripping.

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He may have wanted to return to Dallas too. They have a pretty good thing going there.

Hey, he doesn't have to pay 9% in state income tax there, plus he gets more for his money in cost-of-living terms, plus he wouldn't have to commute through freakin' Manhattan for home games, plus Mangini won't ride his ass like a drill sergeant every 2 minutes down in Dallas either.

So you may have a point.

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As you have pointed out Sperm the Jets may have miscalculated some things especially on the offensive line. The fact that next to nothing was gained by losing Kendall is just moronic at best...ok finally lettting that ship sail..Tangini you are on the clock

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