NOExcusesNYJ Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 just read in the Star Ledger...add the Saints to the list of teams that are showing interest in Vilma. What could we get from NO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart28 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I imagine swe are looking at somewhere around a third rounder. On the plus side the more demand for Vilma might drive up the price to a second rounder if we are lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 just read in the Star Ledger...add the Saints to the list of teams that are showing interest in Vilma. What could we get from NO? They pick 10th overall. Don't know exactly where they are after that. There are 7 teams that all finished 7-9. My guess would be: 1(10) 2(9) 3(15) 4(14) 5(13) 6(12) 7(11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'd say at most a 2nd -3rd rounder but wouldn't at all be surprised to see it slip as far as a 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'd say at most a 2nd -3rd rounder but wouldn't at all be surprised to see it slip as far as a 4th. Also at this point there might be a good chance we don't move him until after the draft. - We might wait until we see who (if anyone) we get in FA or the draft. - We might wait until Vilma's knee has rehabbed to up his trade value. All in the hopes of getting a 2009 2nd-rounder instead of a 3rd or worse right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 the vilma situation is one of the biggest problems i have with this front-office. it was clear after 1 year that vilma wasn't a good fit for the 3-4. if mangini is as smart as he thinks he should have known when he took the job that vilma didn't fit. the jets should have moved vilma when they had the chance to get something in return, now his trade value is terrible. this FO has shown no ability to make player personnel decisions - whether signing free agents, extending current players, or making cuts/trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 the vilma situation is one of the biggest problems i have with this front-office. it was clear after 1 year that vilma wasn't a good fit for the 3-4. if mangini is as smart as he thinks he should have known when he took the job that vilma didn't fit. the jets should have moved vilma when they had the chance to get something in return, now his trade value is terrible. this FO has shown no ability to make player personnel decisions - whether signing free agents, extending current players, or making cuts/trades. It was obvious to everyone except fans who bought his jersey or still think he was "great" in the 4-3. He was great for a rookie in '04. Amassed a lot of tackles (as did Eric Coleman, who no one will miss) in '05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart28 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 the vilma situation is one of the biggest problems i have with this front-office. it was clear after 1 year that vilma wasn't a good fit for the 3-4. if mangini is as smart as he thinks he should have known when he took the job that vilma didn't fit. the jets should have moved vilma when they had the chance to get something in return, now his trade value is terrible. this FO has shown no ability to make player personnel decisions - whether signing free agents, extending current players, or making cuts/trades. I think in regards to Vilma it was more of a hope that he would develop a little more into the system with a second year of off season work and another training camp of experience. Unfortunately he didnt, as well as more than a few others, Vilma instead stayed the same production wise and therefore hurt his trade value. Who's fault is that? I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think in regards to Vilma it was more of a hope that he would develop a little more into the system with a second year of off season work and another training camp of experience. Unfortunately he didnt, as well as more than a few others, Vilma instead stayed the same production wise and therefore hurt his trade value. Who's fault is that? I dont know. that's the problem with this FO. they make decisions based on hope rather than empirical evidence. they hoped vilma would all of a sudden be able to take on guards. they hoped von old hoffen could play NT, they hoped clarke could play guard. they hoped chadwick could throw long. these guys need to make decisions based on fact not hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think in regards to Vilma it was more of a hope that he would develop a little more into the system with a second year of off season work and another training camp of experience. Unfortunately he didnt, as well as more than a few others, Vilma instead stayed the same production wise and therefore hurt his trade value. Who's fault is that? I dont know. It's Mangini's and Tannenbaum's. The only way he would develop into the system would be to bulk up to at least 240 lbs, which wasn't happening. Even more than the weight though, he just doesn't have the power to play in the 3-4. He's hardly devoid of talent, but playing in this scheme negates what talent he does have. Vastly overrated player though overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 He's hardly devoid of talent, but playing in this scheme negates what talent he does have. Vastly overrated player though overall. he's only overrated by jet fans. the rest of the league doesn't consider him great, just jet fans holding on to 2 good seasons. remember erik mcmillan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeesjetsfan Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 So, no one here thinks He can be another Ray Lewis in the right system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart28 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 that's the problem with this FO. they make decisions based on hope rather than empirical evidence. they hoped vilma would all of a sudden be able to take on guards. they hoped von old hoffen could play NT, they hoped clarke could play guard. they hoped chadwick could throw long. these guys need to make decisions based on fact not hope. There was no reason for them not to hope, Chad had a good year, and most of us assumed with a full offseason of not rehabbing he would only get better. Its safe to say that the defense with equal if not more time learning the system should have omproved as well. I think some of that has to go with the transition into the 34 and learning a new system, most of the guys who have failed in the system were Herm holdovers who have been given two seasons to learn the system and still havent. Which is one of the reasons for having a down year, I see it in part as a weeding out of those who can and cant play in the system. Thats why Hobson isnt getting resigned, Drob and Vilma are gone. I think we will continue to see improvement in defense as the years go on, especially as more and more players from the old regime are jettisoned, and better fits are brought in. There was no excuse for Clarke, and Kimo was an end, not NT, his experience was neccessary for the transition. We need sure starters though, this is the offseason I think we have to judge this FO by, if they dont do anything, we're in trouble. If they make the moves and the team improves next year, I think we are in good shape. IMO anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOExcusesNYJ Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 So, no one here thinks He can be another Ray Lewis in the right system? i think if he goes somewhere and plays in a 4-3 he will be awesome again once healthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KudosForND Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I dont understand vilma is a top 5 linebacker he is only 26 and people are saying a 3rd round pick.. for the saints i would want will smith(dominate DE) and a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tparich Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I dont understand vilma is a top 5 linebacker he is only 26 and people are saying a 3rd round pick.. for the saints i would want will smith(dominate DE) and a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I wouldn't call him a top 5 linebacker right now. He was headed in that direction though. I think it's promising that there are several teams interested in him though. Should up the trade value somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I wouldn't call him a top 5 linebacker right now. He was headed in that direction though. I think it's promising that there are several teams interested in him though. Should up the trade value somewhat. Who knows. Initially the Lions couldn't get better than a 4th round offer for Rogers. Now they're ending up with a 2nd and a #3 CB with starting experience. May be better to hold our cards until the FA LB'ers dry up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 just read in the Star Ledger...add the Saints to the list of teams that are showing interest in Vilma. What could we get from NO? WILL SMITH He'd be a great 34 defensive end. He's almost too big to play 43 DE, although i doubt that let him go for much short of our entire receiving corps (joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It's Mangini's and Tannenbaum's. The only way he would develop into the system would be to bulk up to at least 240 lbs, which wasn't happening. Even more than the weight though, he just doesn't have the power to play in the 3-4. He's hardly devoid of talent, but playing in this scheme negates what talent he does have. Vastly overrated player though overall. You down play Vilma so much it almost looks neive. It's easy to say he gets run over when he's tackling, or that he grabs people 7 yards down field, all of which you can only prove on specific instances. If you want I can put together a similar film clip and explain how Urlacher and Lewis have deteriorated so much that they are no longer worth their value. Saying that Vilma is 'vastly' overrated is not taking into account what he brings to the team. I don't know if anyone on this board has ever played an actual sport, and for all you know, i haven't either. With the six college varsity letters between two sports, i can tell you that i appreciated nothing more than a guy like Vilma. He doesn't have to be the best player on the field, but there is something to be said for being a team captain, a good person, a team leader, a guy that coaches lean on. All your shots about his size, and playing 'good for a rookie' are more biased than you Martin comments (which i happen to agree with). Jon Vilma doesn't belong in a 34, nor did he belong in a 43 with the defenders we had playing in front of him. You put a man like that behind the Vikings, Jags, or even the lions (with rogers) and you'll se a pro bowler. Vilma brings much more to the table than any kind of stat you can dig up. With that said, i hope we trade him, and i hope he makes many pro-bowls in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Lew Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Sperm has always downplayed Vilma, and its one of the rare instances where he's always been wrong. Vilma is a player just not in our defensive system. There is no way we should get rid of him for anything less than a second or a solid player at a position of need if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOExcusesNYJ Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 WILL SMITH He'd be a great 34 defensive end. He's almost too big to play 43 DE, although i doubt that let him go for much short of our entire receiving corps (joke). huge contract I believe....not that it matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 You down play Vilma so much it almost looks neive. It's easy to say he gets run over when he's tackling, or that he grabs people 7 yards down field, all of which you can only prove on specific instances. If you want I can put together a similar film clip and explain how Urlacher and Lewis have deteriorated so much that they are no longer worth their value. Saying that Vilma is 'vastly' overrated is not taking into account what he brings to the team. I don't know if anyone on this board has ever played an actual sport, and for all you know, i haven't either. With the six college varsity letters between two sports, i can tell you that i appreciated nothing more than a guy like Vilma. He doesn't have to be the best player on the field, but there is something to be said for being a team captain, a good person, a team leader, a guy that coaches lean on. All your shots about his size, and playing 'good for a rookie' are more biased than you Martin comments (which i happen to agree with). Jon Vilma doesn't belong in a 34, nor did he belong in a 43 with the defenders we had playing in front of him. You put a man like that behind the Vikings, Jags, or even the lions (with rogers) and you'll se a pro bowler. Vilma brings much more to the table than any kind of stat you can dig up. With that said, i hope we trade him, and i hope he makes many pro-bowls in his career. He got my sister and cousin pregnant so I don't like him. I say he's overrated so he's overrated . Urlacher & Lewis being has-been's doesn't change that. Also Kassell is a team captain with those personal attributes you just outlined & I think you were among the pissed off people when we re-signed him for like the veteran minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 He got my sister and cousin pregnant so I don't like him. I say he's overrated so he's overrated . Urlacher & Lewis being has-been's doesn't change that. Also Kassell is a team captain with those personal attributes you just outlined & I think you were among the pissed off people when we re-signed him for like the veteran minimum. I didn't post in the the thread about Kassell, although i found it to be a waste of a roster spot. Kassell does play pretty well on special teams (if i remember right). People can make fun of the 'mangini type player', but when it comes down to it, successful teams need that type of player....that player also can't just be a boy scout and suck, so i think Vilma is going to be missed. If he knocked up your sister make sure he didn't just trip and a fall on her. Vilma does no wrong, haven't you heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I didn't post in the the thread about Kassell, although i found it to be a waste of a roster spot. Kassell does play pretty well on special teams (if i remember right). People can make fun of the 'mangini type player', but when it comes down to it, successful teams need that type of player....that player also can't just be a boy scout and suck, so i think Vilma is going to be missed. If he knocked up your sister make sure he didn't just trip and a fall on her. Vilma does no wrong, haven't you heard? He tripped and fell in her. Got a pretty big vageen, my sister. When it's really cold out we use her like Luke in a tauntaun, but we don't need to do the lightsaber thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 He tripped and fell in her. Got a pretty big vageen, my sister. When it's really cold out we use her like Luke in a tauntaun, but we don't need to do the lightsaber thing. i can't nom you twice, sorry dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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