damien next?

[PantyHose&Furs]

so far this FA period is a 10.

is damien woody next to make our OLine into one of the strengths of the team?

[upstatefan]

so far this FA period is a 10.

is damien woody next to make our OLine into one of the strengths of the team?

Shefter says yes - would be a good move

[jack48]

so far this FA period is a 10.

is damien woody next to make our OLine into one of the strengths of the team?

Proves 1000% that it does not matter who the coach is or what his system is. Greenbacks do the talking. I was thinking-we could use another LB. And we could conceivably miss out on Gholston and Groves. Gholston could be gone at 6 and Groves could be gone by the second round. That is where Pace comes in. Insurance. We sign him. Then if we get Gholston, we cut BT. I would focus on Pace right now. And on top of that we still need another one for the inside. The 3-4 is a LB defense and the quality of ours overall is crap.

[JetsMan57]

But isnt woody a guard who got shuffled to RT this year? How did he do at RT?

[nj meadowlands]

Woody would be nice because he could easily play RG for us too. Not sure why the FO is so high on Brandon Moore... doh.

[Sperm Edwards]

Proves 1000% that it does not matter who the coach is or what his system is. Greenbacks do the talking. I was thinking-we could use another LB. And we could conceivably miss out on Gholston and Groves. Gholston could be gone at 6 and Groves could be gone by the second round. That is where Pace comes in. Insurance. We sign him. Then if we get Gholston, we cut BT. I would focus on Pace right now. And on top of that we still need another one for the inside. The 3-4 is a LB defense and the quality of ours overall is crap.

Cutting Thomas doesn't the cap until after the 2009 season. Cheaper to keep him as an ultra-expensive backup if that's the case.

[jack48]

Cutting Thomas doesn't the cap until after the 2009 season. Cheaper to keep him as an ultra-expensive backup if that's the case.

I remember you posting something about him to that effect. I wasn't thinking of cap hit, just talent on the field. If we can afford it.

[Sperm Edwards]

I remember you posting something about him to that effect. I wasn't thinking of cap hit, just talent on the field. If we can afford it.

Just saying that even if we signed Pace & drafted Gholston, Bryan Thomas is still likely to be on the roster in 2008 and maybe 2009 as well.

[#27TheDominator]

But isnt woody a guard who got shuffled to RT this year? How did he do at RT?

Supposedly very good. He lost his guard job, but they really liked him at RT and he gave up almost no sacks and that is on the Lions who were giving up record numbers, He also plays center.

[Alk]

Supposedly very good. He lost his guard job, but they really liked him at RT and he gave up almost no sacks and that is on the Lions who were giving up record numbers, He also plays center.

Sure, as long as it's not out of the shotgun formation.

[KSJets]

Sure, as long as it's not out of the shotgun formation.

Kevin Mawae never liked snapping in the shotgun formation either.

[Greenseed3]

For what it's worth, (and I mentioned this in a different thread) Adam Schefter was the only prognosticator to foretell the five-year Faneca deal. Before it was made official, Adam said it would be, and for five years not four.

He's also said that the Jets would sign Woody by Monday (latest).

For that reason I believe Dameion will in fact be a JET.

Just thought I'd pass that along... again.

[Irish Jet]

If we get Woody or Olivea this has been an almost perfect off-season.

What we need now is a good draft and we are once again contenders IMO.

[GimmeShelter]

If we get Woody or Olivea this has been an almost perfect off-season.

What we need now is a good draft and we are once again contenders IMO.

Not until we get consistent above average QB play. That was missing all of last season and you simply don't win in the NFL without it.

Hopefully with all these positive signings/anticipated signings to go along with the 6th pick in the draft, our QB's are working hard to bounce back from horrific 2007 seasons. The best case scenario would be if the light bulb clicks on for Kellen.

To put our 2007 QB play into perspective, Todd Collins was head and shoulders better than any product we put behind center last year once he took over for the Redskins play-off run.

Love the aggressiveness the FO is showing but you still do not win in this league with mediocre QB play. Chad possibly could game manage this group to contention but to be legite threats you need a QB who can bring you back from 2 or 3 scores behind a couple of times a season. For all his positives and good qualities Chad cannot do that.

[aec4]

Cutting Thomas doesn't the cap until after the 2009 season. Cheaper to keep him as an ultra-expensive backup if that's the case.

How do you figure?

Rumors said he got 9M guaranteed over 5 yrs. 1.8M a year. If he's cut as a June 1 cut, even if it's done now, you can take the 1.8M hit this year, and the remaining 5.4M in 2009. His base salary would go off the books, and THAT would be the cap savings for 2008. Why? You're paying the 1.8M whether he's on the team or not. The base isn't being paid. Sure, you have 1.8M in dead $ this year, and 5.4M next year, but to say there is no savings in 2008 is not correct.

EDIT: This doesn't even factor in that the deal was signed during the 2006 season. It's possible but I do not know, that part/all of the guaranteed cash was given to him in 2006, with the unused cap room... meaning less of the guaranteed money would hit out cap. We have no idea of knowing if they didn't give him a ROSTER bonus in 2006. It could have been signing bonus too, who knows. The fact is, cutting him would free up some room, but put us on a big hook in 2009. (or we could take the entire hit this year)

[Sperm Edwards]

How do you figure?

Rumors said he got 9M guaranteed over 5 yrs. 1.8M a year. If he's cut as a June 1 cut, even if it's done now, you can take the 1.8M hit this year, and the remaining 5.4M in 2009. His base salary would go off the books, and THAT would be the cap savings for 2008. Why? You're paying the 1.8M whether he's on the team or not. The base isn't being paid. Sure, you have 1.8M in dead $ this year, and 5.4M next year, but to say there is no savings in 2008 is not correct.

EDIT: This doesn't even factor in that the deal was signed during the 2006 season. It's possible but I do not know, that part/all of the guaranteed cash was given to him in 2006, with the unused cap room... meaning less of the guaranteed money would hit out cap. We have no idea of knowing if they didn't give him a ROSTER bonus in 2006. It could have been signing bonus too, who knows. The fact is, cutting him would free up some room, but put us on a big hook in 2009. (or we could take the entire hit this year)

The deal was in December 2006. Meaning even though he got the money in '06, it doesn't touch the 2006 cap; it goes onto the 2007 cap. (That's why teams scurry to make cap adjustments in early November before the "cutoff" usually around 11/3). Therefore 2007 was the first year of the contract extension & he's signed through 2011 (5 years total). $8M signing bonus over 5 years = $1.6M/yr. So far, only 1 of those years has come off, leaving $6.4M still left.

His cap hit in 2008 is scheduled to be:

$1.6M = SB amort

$1.7M = base salary

-------------------

$3.3M = total cap hit

Cut/trade him prior to 6/1 and all $6.4M accelerates to this year's cap instead of just the $1.6M. Meaning it costs $3.1M more to cut him than keep him.

Now you can cut him after 6/1 (or cut him before & designate him as a post-6/1 cut). I don't really see the advantage. We've just signed a couple of new super-high-priced players, will likely sign a #6 overall pick to a big contract, plus maybe another FA or two. Their cap hits are surely going to be the least in year one, and they go up each year of the contract. With so much room in '08, why would any responsible GM put off his cap hit to '09 when we're not even up against it in '08?

But doing that would technically save his base salary ($1.7M) on the 2008 cap. His cap hit would drop from $3.3M to $1.6M. Then in 2009, when these new players' salaries also go up, Thomas would count $4.8M against the 2009 cap and he's not even on the team anymore. No way we do that to save less than $2M in un-needed cap space this year. It is cheaper overall just to keep him this year.

Fast-forward to 2009 (if kept):

$1.6M = SB amort

$1.9M = base salary

-------------------

$3.5M = total cap hit

That's still $1.3M cheaper than cutting him a year earlier. The net for cutting him - even after 6/1 - this year is:

2008 = net saved: $1.7M

2009 = net lost: $1.3M

You're telling me that the cost-benefit of losing this player we JUST extended last season is $400,000?

Now consider something else: his spot on the roster will be filled by at least some scrub who counts no less than $370,000 each year. Well, you have to take that off your "savings" also.

Cutting him in '08 has a two year cost benefit of $ -340,000 in your best-case scenario. And BT gets replaced by a 6th round or UDFA waste of space to boot.

Now it will become more beneficial to cut him at some point before his contract goes to full term. His SB was $8M; his base salaries add up to $10.6M. That's only $18.6M over 5 years. So there's got to be another $6.4M in roster bonus(es) somewhere along the way. Those #'s have not been published as far as I can tell.

[aec4]

The deal was in December 2006.

The deal was ANNOUNCED 12/1/06. Noone has any idea of when it was actually SIGNED.

Meaning even though he got the money in '06, it doesn't touch the 2006 cap; it goes onto the 2007 cap. (That's why teams scurry to make cap adjustments in early November before the "cutoff" usually around 11/3).

Again, not necessarily true. You can add "unlikely to hit incentives" into his deal to free up room in 2007.

Therefore 2007 was the first year of the contract extension & he's signed through 2011 (5 years total). $8M signing bonus over 5 years = $1.6M/yr.

Everything I read said 9M, but 8M/9M who cares, doesn't change my argument.

So far, only 1 of those years has come off, leaving $6.4M still left.

His cap hit in 2008 is scheduled to be:

$1.6M = SB amort

$1.7M = base salary

-------------------

$3.3M = total cap hit

WRONG.

Trade him, and yes, it's true. CUT HIM, and you can designate the cut to be post-6/1.

Cut him post 6/1, and you SAVE 1.7M this year (you're paying the signing bonus pro-ration onto your cap anyway), but of course, you remain with 4.8M deal cash in 2009.

So, like I said initially, you are offbase thinking cutting him NOW would cost us more in 2008.

Cap expert? I don't think so. You may have done the research on the figures, and I credit you for that, but you need to know all the rules, or just express them better.

Now, does it make sense to cut Thomas? no for the long haul, but you EXPLICITLY SAID (and don't deny it or try to change the subject, or go off on some tangent) that it would cost way too much to cut him and cause a cap hit >IN 2008<.

Now also remember, in 2009, the cap is liable to go up, probably 5-8M... You forget about that.

I called BS on this and I was right. Thanks. End of discussion.

[Sperm Edwards]

The deal was ANNOUNCED 12/1/06. Noone has any idea of when it was actually SIGNED.

He signed a 5-year extension. He is under contract through 2011. That's:

2007

2008

2009

2010

2011

But ok, sure. He could have signed a giant contract extension in late October & announced it in December. When has that ever happened?

Again, not necessarily true. You can add "unlikely to hit incentives" into his deal to free up room in 2007.

What would the point be? The net would still be a greater cap cost than you gain from 2008-2009 unless he gives signing bonus back to the team. You know this better than most; if we paid it to him, it has to come off the cap. All the fancy accounting in the world doesn't erase the fact that $6.4M of his signing bonus must come off the cap no matter what.

Everything I read said 9M, but 8M/9M who cares, doesn't change my argument.

It was $9M guaranteed. $8M signing bonus. I didn't read anyplace that said he got a $9M signing bonus.

So far, only 1 of those years has come off, leaving $6.4M still left.

His cap hit in 2008 is scheduled to be:

$1.6M = SB amort

$1.7M = base salary

-------------------

$3.3M = total cap hit

WRONG.

Trade him, and yes, it's true. CUT HIM, and you can designate the cut to be post-6/1.

You're calling me wrong (or "yelling" it with your capital letters)? I said this very thing in my post. How am I wrong & then you re-state the very thing I said myself? You have issues, dude.

Cut him post 6/1, and you SAVE 1.7M this year (you're paying the signing bonus pro-ration onto your cap anyway), but of course, you remain with 4.8M deal cash in 2009.

Isn't this exactly what I wrote?

So, like I said initially, you are offbase thinking cutting him NOW would cost us more in 2008.

Cap expert? I don't think so. You may have done the research on the figures, and I credit you for that, but you need to know all the rules, or just express them better.

When did I call myself a cap expert? And from what I can tell from your "argument" here, you are re-stating the same thing I said while calling me wrong and you correct.

Talk about needing to express oneself better.

Now, does it make sense to cut Thomas? no for the long haul, but you EXPLICITLY SAID (and don't deny it or try to change the subject, or go off on some tangent) that it would cost way too much to cut him and cause a cap hit >IN 2008<.

It would cost too much. Because there is no way we cut him prior to 6/1 to save less than $1.7M (minus the cost of the roster spot replacing him). That would be arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me, since you know perfectly well it would never be done a year after we gave him an $8M signing bonus.

Now also remember, in 2009, the cap is liable to go up, probably 5-8M... You forget about that.

I called BS on this and I was right. Thanks. End of discussion.

You're not right. There is no true cap benefit to cutting Thomas this year before 6/1, before 6/1 with a post-6/1 designation, or after 6/1; and however much the cap goes up doesn't change the fact that you'd have more cap room if he counted less. The net cost is more than is saved.

Which is exactly what I wrote in the first place.

[aec4]

He signed a 5-year extension. He is under contract through 2011. That's:

2007

2008

2009

2010

2011

But ok, sure. He could have signed a giant contract extension in late October & announced it in December. When has that ever happened?

With the Jets... it's possible with the way they report stuff. He's signed thru 2011, that's true, but it was termed a 5 yr EXTENSION.. Did they rip up 2006 and make it a 6 yr deal (still a 5 yr extension) doubtful, I agree, but definitely possible.

The rest of your stuff is just you going off on a tangent..

You're calling me wrong (or "yelling" it with your capital letters)? I said this very thing in my post. How am I wrong & then you re-state the very thing I said myself? You have issues, dude.

In your ORIGINAL post, you said "It would cost more in 2008 to cut him than to keep him." I called BS. I was right. Original post, not your reply, where you basically admitted I was right.

Here is the original post in case you forgot:

Cutting Thomas help doesn't the cap until after the 2009 season. Cheaper to keep him as an ultra-expensive backup if that's the case.

Nope, it can help the cap in 2008 (and eat space in 2009, granted)...

[aec4]

awaiting another tangent....

[Jetlag]

Signing Damien Woody is fine, but he better not see that large of a contract.

His better days are behind him and he can't be trusted to do more then just compete with Clement and any other lineman they might bring for the RT spot.

I wouldn't mind us drafting OL early to continue to help that right side. Woody is NOT Faneca, he is not a sure thing.

[Sperm Edwards]

With the Jets... it's possible with the way they report stuff. He's signed thru 2011, that's true, but it was termed a 5 yr EXTENSION.. Did they rip up 2006 and make it a 6 yr deal (still a 5 yr extension) doubtful, I agree, but definitely possible.

The rest of your stuff is just you going off on a tangent..

In your ORIGINAL post, you said "It would cost more in 2008 to cut him than to keep him." I called BS. I was right. Original post, not your reply, where you basically admitted I was right.

Here is the original post in case you forgot:

Nope, it can help the cap in 2008 (and eat space in 2009, granted)...

What you're doing is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing for "I'm right, you're wrong" points with yourself, and you know it.

There is NO WAY we're cutting Bryan Thomas after 6/1 (or designate him as a post 6/1 cut), and signing the team up for $4.8M in dead cap space the following year. The fact that this "technical" possibility exists, for them to save a maximum of $1.36M on the 2008 cap - and a net overall cap cost of about $3.5M, is academic at best. It doesn't "help" the cap unless this franchise is planning on (1) needing every last penny to stay under the 2008 cap, which they're still comfortably under, and (2) ending its existence after the 2008 season. This move hurts the Jets' cap situation.

And you're looking foolish, making a whole stink out of

- calling me WRONG in capital letters regarding my understanding of the cap rules, when you merely repeated what I wrote as far as the possibility of a post-6/1 cap designation.

- the possibility existing of lessening our cap by $1.7M (which is really a maximum of $1.36M) this year, which makes a $4.8M dead hole in the '09 cap and we don't even have the player anymore.

My point, from the beginning, is that there is no benefit to cutting him early '08, late '08 or whatever. Unless Mangini decides that Thomas' presence is worth less than $1.36M of cap space that we don't need on a $116M salary cap, there is no benefit this year. That's a pretty long stretch of an assumption on your part.

Bryan Thomas is not re-doing his deal with ULTBE incentives to clear more cap room just so so the Jets can release him. We're not lessening our cap burden this year (and losing a guy who's started 32 straight games for us) for a true savings of under $1.5M in '08, when we have plenty of cap space, and then create a roughly-$5M hole in the following year's cap (also without the benefit of actually having the player on the team).

I'm done with this. You're simply going to a place I don't want to go: finding fault for the sake of finding fault (no matter how unrealistic of a situation it would take to make you correct) just so you can type "I'm right & you're wrong" to me. And in doing so, the only thing missing from your "corrections" is posting a picture of you sticking your tongue out at me.

But if it makes you happy to say it, go right ahead. The Jets can save a little un-needed money in 2008 for a bloated, greater, and possibly-needed loss of cap room in 2009, and lose the player in the process. If you honestly consider that to be a "cap benefit" then go ahead and marvel in your correctness.

[aec4]

Cutting Thomas doesn't help the cap until after the 2009 season. Cheaper to keep him as an ultra-expensive backup if that's the case.

1.36M SAVINGS in 2008 right? How does that jive with the above statement?

1.36M could be worth it... probably isn't, but could be... However, to say it doesn't save a dime is just a lie..

The rest of your message.......... BS to get people off topic.