Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Keep in mind, unless we get way, WAY above his trade value I do not think we'll move him. Even if we do, it likely wouldn't be until after the draft, and only if Clemens soundly beats him out in camp. That being said... A team acquiring him does not need to give him a new contract. No signing bonus. Nothing that would make him uncuttable. Just his salary. Meaning if they go in a different direction in a year, all they've lost is the draft pick they traded to get him. His base salaries: 2008 = $6.0M (age 32) 2009 = $5.7M (age 33) 2010 = $2.3M (age 34) 2011 = $7.5M (age 35) Ignore 2011 for a moment, as he'd likely get a new deal prior to the 2011 season if the new team really wants him back that badly. So someone would essentially acquire him and inherit a contract for 3 years, $14M total (with a team option of another year at $7.5M or extending him). That's less at the end of 3 years than Gibril Wilson got in up-front signing bonus alone, to play safety, at a sub-pro-bowl level. Prior to any year, a new team can cut him without absorbing any cap penalty or dead cap space, since they didn't give him any up-front signing bonus money. What do you think his trade value would be in 2008 draft pick(s) or 2009 draft pick(s)? (FYI: prior to the draft, we'd save $3M on the '08 cap with no future cap hit in '09 and beyond. After June 1st, we'd save $6M on the '08 cap but would get hit with $3M in dead cap space for '09 only.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonCorleone Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Keep in mind, unless we get way, WAY above his trade value I do not think we'll move him. Even if we do, it likely wouldn't be until after the draft, and only if Clemens soundly beats him out in camp. That being said... A team acquiring him does not need to give him a new contract. No signing bonus. Nothing that would make him uncuttable. Just his salary. Meaning if they go in a different direction in a year, all they've lost is the draft pick they traded to get him. His base salaries: 2008 = $6.0M (age 32) 2009 = $5.7M (age 33) 2010 = $2.3M (age 34) 2011 = $7.5M (age 35) Ignore 2011 for a moment, as he'd likely get a new deal prior to the 2011 season if the new team really wants him back that badly. So someone would essentially acquire him and inherit a contract for 3 years, $14M total (with a team option of another year at $7.5M or extending him). That's less at the end of 3 years than Gibril Wilson got in up-front signing bonus alone, to play safety, at a sub-pro-bowl level. Prior to any year, a new team can cut him without absorbing any cap penalty or dead cap space, since they didn't give him any up-front signing bonus money. What do you think his trade value would be in 2008 draft pick(s) or 2009 draft pick(s)? (FYI: prior to the draft, we'd save $3M on the '08 cap with no future cap hit in '09 and beyond. After June 1st, we'd save $6M on the '08 cap but would get hit with $3M in dead cap space for '09 only.) One can only assume that he does not have any value. Who in the world would take on such large contract for a very good backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 O(ne can only assume that he does not have any. Who in the worl would take on such large contract for a very good backup? I doubt anyone would be trading for him to be a backup at that salary & he wouldn't renegotiate his deal so it would be cap-friendly to be a backup. Chad wants to start & on other teams, there are worse QB's in the league than he is (Alex Smith, Tavaris Jackson, etc.), or a team like Atlanta might go with him for a year-plus if they don't want to potentially throw a rookie into action prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I think that is exactly what the Jets are trying to find out. That is why you are hearing these rumblings about a "competition" for the starting QB job during training camp. I'm just finding it hard to believe that a franchise would make the switch to a young QB who they drafted pretty high, play him for 8-9 games and then decide to go back to the vet who is limited in what he can do. I think there are teams out there though that will show interest. I think possible suitors could be a team like the Bears, Baltimore, KC, Washington, Atlanta, maybe Carolina (depending how Jake's recovery from Tommy John Surgery). The Jets don't want to have happen to them what happened last year with the Chiefs and Trent Green and get basically zilch for him. So while the word right now is that Pennington will compete for the job I believe that it is all smoke screen for a draft day deal that could land them a 3rd or 4th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Is trade value is a cup of coffee and an unglazed donut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Roughly the same as Drobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Roughly the same as Drobs I think he's got plenty more than that, considering DRob has no trade value. A $6M cap hit for a team desperate for a starting QB (and they'd have to be) is not remotely the same as a $10M cap hit for a team who wants to upgrade their DT position a little. Chad's also under contract for 4 more years, meaning he doesn't need a new deal. After DRob's killer $10M season, he'd only have 1 year left. No one's giving up much of anything (if anything at all) for 2 yrs/$15M of DRob with bone-on-bone in his knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justincredible Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Maybe a third rounder from a team that is just a decent QB away from being a serious contender (i.e. Minnesota) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Minnesota needs a decent QB who can stretch the field to compliment Adrian Peterson, I can't think of a single team who would really upgrade them selfs enough with Chad to be willing to take him on at that salary at this point in his career. Unfortunetly there is a new regime in Miami cause they would trade for washed up QB's every year it seemed, and I don't see a team like Chicago was a few years ago that could win a championship with a game manager like Chad. Only way I see us moving him is if a starter get's hurt and a team is desperate, or someone really wants a veteran QB to mentor a younger player. His contract is just way to much for what he brings t the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Minnesota needs a decent QB who can stretch the field to compliment Adrian Peterson, I can't think of a single team who would really upgrade them selfs enough with Chad to be willing to take him on at that salary at this point in his career. Unfortunetly there is a new regime in Miami cause they would trade for washed up QB's every year it seemed, and I don't see a team like Chicago was a few years ago that could win a championship with a game manager like Chad. Only way I see us moving him is if a starter get's hurt and a team is desperate, or someone really wants a veteran QB to mentor a younger player. His contract is just way to much for what he brings t the table. Perhaps. But guys get hurt in the summer also. Not so much with QB's (though it happened Chad himself ), but it can happen. If a team in that situation considered themselves a contender & their backup is a Gradkowski type, Pennington's value would certainly go up more. I still think he's staying here at least until Clemens clearly beats him out, in which case we'd trade for a draft pick in '09 (unless it was REALLY close). That is, unless someone doesn't get what they thought they were going to get in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Minnesota needs a decent QB who can stretch the field to compliment Adrian Peterson, I can't think of a single team who would really upgrade them selfs enough with Chad to be willing to take him on at that salary at this point in his career. Unfortunetly there is a new regime in Miami cause they would trade for washed up QB's every year it seemed, and I don't see a team like Chicago was a few years ago that could win a championship with a game manager like Chad. Only way I see us moving him is if a starter get's hurt and a team is desperate, or someone really wants a veteran QB to mentor a younger player. His contract is just way to much for what he brings t the table. I think Atlanta would be a great fit. You have a team that really has no QB. (Chris Redman, D.J. Shockley) an image issue. (Mike Vick) and a team that will probably be a very ground oriented team. (Michael Turner). Baltimore: Has McNair, Troy Smith and Kyle Boller. I don't know what kind of offense they want to run with John Harbaugh as the new coach but it could be a fit. Bears: Grossman, Orton. Again this looks like a team that could be looking for a QB. Carolina: I think alot depends on how Delhomme rehab is going from Tommy John surgery. There are teams out there. The question is will one of them bite if Pennington is offered ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I would think his trade value would be a 2nd or 3rd rounder. But I would think the JEts would want a mid first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justincredible Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I would think his trade value would be a 2nd or 3rd rounder. But I would think the JEts would want a mid first rounder. I don't think so, Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I don't think so, Tim. The Tony Richardson signing makes me think that they are hoping chad can start the season more than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 As the pre-season progresses and injuries / lack of performance kick in, Penningtons trade value will increase dramatically. I'm thinking a high third rounder would get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravejamriot Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 2nd rounder would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 As the pre-season progresses and injuries / lack of performance kick in, Penningtons trade value will increase dramatically. I'm thinking a high third rounder would get it done. I don't envision any trade until then, if at all. I'm not sure the Jets are convinced they have to trade him, or are even convinced that Kellen is their QB (should they be?). In an ideal world, training camp would be the time for Clemens to cement his position as the starter thus enabling the Jets to trade Pennington to the needy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I.MikeBleedsGreen Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The Tony Richardson signing makes me think that they are hoping chad can start the season more than ever.With the signing of Tony R. it does give Chad the option to use the Play Action (again) ,But he still needs to be able to throw the ball down field when using the Play action.Tony R. was signed to help Kellen with the play action because he can make the throws down field that chad could NOT. imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22DaFuTuRe51 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'd give hime up for a half eaten bag of Dorito's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 With the signing of Tony R. it does give Chad the option to use the Play Action (again) ,But he still needs to be able to throw the ball down field when using the Play action.Tony R. was signed to help Kellen with the play action because he can make the throws down field that chad could NOT. imho No one uses the FB more than Chad. I would think that if they were going to build this team around Clemens then they would have done it differently and tried build around his strength of throwing downfield. Like get a big time WR and go for more youth rather than Vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I have to keep going back to the AJ Feeley deal where the Eagles got a second round pick for him from Miami-color me crazy but I still think we can get the same for Chad-BUT I think it will be a package deal to a KC along with Coles-remember they just released Eddie Kennison and have one WR and one QB on the roster of any worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 What do you think his trade value would be in 2008 draft pick(s) or 2009 draft pick(s)? Considering that there are about 8 NFL teams right now that desperately need a starting QB I'd say Pennington's trade value is a 2008 third round pick. (Ravens, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bears, Vikes, 49ers, Lions, Falcons) Ofcourse after seeing the garbage our FO accepted for Vilma I doubt we'll get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonCorleone Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I doubt anyone would be trading for him to be a backup at that salary & he wouldn't renegotiate his deal so it would be cap-friendly to be a backup. Chad wants to start & on other teams, there are worse QB's in the league than he is (Alex Smith, Tavaris Jackson, etc.), or a team like Atlanta might go with him for a year-plus if they don't want to potentially throw a rookie into action prematurely. I am not saying that he is one of the worst qb's in the NFL. As a matter of fact, he will most likely be the starter for the Jets. When it was obvious that the season was over and they started Clemens, they hoped that he could just come in and show some flashes of being close to ready. IMO, he did not do that, I think that if the Jets are in a win now mode (as they appear to be) Chad would be the logic choice. Some NFL teams went to SB's with much less than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I am not saying that he is one of the worst qb's in the NFL. As a matter of fact, he will most likely be the starter for the Jets. When it was obvious that the season was over and they started Clemens, they hoped that he could just come in and show some flashes of being close to ready. IMO, he did not do that, I think that if the Jets are in a win now mode (as they appear to be) Chad would be the logic choice. Some NFL teams went to SB's with much less than him. but the guy can't friggin make the throws anymore Don-some of us thought he was going to have a big year at this time last year not having to rehab but he came back with the same weak wing as he did the year before...no way do we use him as a starter-back-up, like how he came in against New England when Clemens got hurt yea, maybe (if we CAN'T trade him) who knows maybe he can catch lightning in a bottle once again...but it MUST be Clemens' job to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 5th rd pick at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 A 24 case, a Pepperoni Pizza and Buffalo Wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonCorleone Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 but the guy can't friggin make the throws anymore Don-some of us thought he was going to have a big year at this time last year not having to rehab but he came back with the same weak wing as he did the year before...no way do we use him as a starter-back-up, like how he came in against New England when Clemens got hurt yea, maybe (if we CAN'T trade him) who knows maybe he can catch lightning in a bottle once again...but it MUST be Clemens' job to lose I completely agree with you about Chad being done. However, all these moves, with Chad still on the roster tells you what? If he is not traded b4 the preseason, whom do you think will be the starter come opening day? No way, they pay a backup Chad's money. Absolutely no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 but the guy can't friggin make the throws anymore Don-some of us thought he was going to have a big year at this time last year not having to rehab but he came back with the same weak wing as he did the year before...no way do we use him as a starter-back-up, like how he came in against New England when Clemens got hurt yea, maybe (if we CAN'T trade him) who knows maybe he can catch lightning in a bottle once again...but it MUST be Clemens' job to lose Personally I think his value is between a 3rd & a 4th. Most likely a 4th this year or a 3rd next year. I'd like to think Clemens can beat him out, otherwise he shouldn't be in there. At the end of this season, Clemens will be due for a contract extension already. But I would be pretty upset if the best option truly was Mr.Just-Wait-Till-Next-Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I like Clemens, and hope he is the starter next season, but I think a lot of you guys are going to be stunned if Pennington is traded, I don't even think he is on the market right now, they would be insane to turn this team over to Clemens after laying out 65 million in guaranteed money, but if they decide that Clemens is their boy, I think the price tag will be a mid 1st. At worst an early 2nd, and I think they will get it. As Sperm pointed out Pennington has a very friendly starting QB contract. There isn't much out there. Either in FA or the draft. To make matters worst, it doesn't look like there will be a whole lot of QB in the 09 draft either. Maybe 2 This is a supply and demand world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 He is a starting QB still, for the JETS or someone else... I would say a 3rd and a 5th round pick.... depends on where in the round though... maybe a late second... Chad will win comeback player of the year AGAIN this year... you cant stop a warrior like him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I am not saying that he is one of the worst qb's in the NFL. As a matter of fact, he will most likely be the starter for the Jets. When it was obvious that the season was over and they started Clemens, they hoped that he could just come in and show some flashes of being close to ready. IMO, he did not do that, I think that if the Jets are in a win now mode (as they appear to be) Chad would be the logic choice. Some NFL teams went to SB's with much less than him. He did more than that. He definitely showed flashes of being the guy. He mad some mistakes, and struggled early in games but he performed better in clutch situations and ran the 2 minute drill well. Pennington on the other hand is the opposite. He pads his stats with meaningless completions early and then falls apart late in games. And he has no ability really at all in the 2 minute drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 He did more than that. He definitely showed flashes of being the guy. He mad some mistakes, and struggled early in games but he performed better in clutch situations and ran the 2 minute drill well. Pennington on the other hand is the opposite. He pads his stats with meaningless completions early and then falls apart late in games. And he has no ability really at all in the 2 minute drill. I watched every game he played except most of the 'skins game and I must have missed these flashes. The kid threw only five TDs all season. He looked good at the end of the Ravens game, but he certainly didn't build on that. I'm hoping he starts this season out fresh and is a little more confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I watched every game he played except most of the 'skins game and I must have missed these flashes. The kid threw only five TDs all season. He looked good at the end of the Ravens game, but he certainly didn't build on that. I'm hoping he starts this season out fresh and is a little more confident. To be fair most of his flashes did come in the Skins game were he showed his potential. He still wasn't great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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