Detroit-NYJ rumor: Roy for the #6

[Jedi_Jet1121]

Roy for a 6th pick is a steal we can get a shut down CB still by trading up in the draft if this move would happen im all for it

[madmike1]

I'd do this.

[madmike1]

Roy for a 6th pick is a steal we can get a shut down CB still by trading up in the draft if this move would happen im all for it

Get it through your head. They aren't drafting another CB in the first round.

[Irish Jet]

You pick one instance and think it's all the RB? It was a great run, and addai is a good back, but who do you think the Pats were keying in on, on that play? I assure you it wasn't the running back sneaking out of the back field.

JMO, but do the world a favor and stay out of the sciences for your career. It's called "sample size".

Look I know what you mean, I'm just pointing out that calling Addai a product of Mannings arm is ridiculous. He's a damn good Running Back and that video show it. The fact that they weren't focusing in on him pre-play hardly gives the team an excuse for him running past half the defence.

[snow_monkey]

Roy for a 6th pick is a steal we can get a shut down CB still by trading up in the draft if this move would happen im all for it

We might choose a CB if we trade down (or trade picks with DET to get Roy) but there's no reason to trade up to get a shut down corner. There'll be good CB's left in the middle or even late 1st round.

We won't get a CB with our #6 pick though.

[124]

No we couldn't, I'll bet any money right now that we won't crack the top 3 with those backs.

Thats your belief, but I strongly disagree.

With Faneca, Ferguson, Mangold and Richardson leading the way, the combination of Jones, Washington and Chatman, if used correctly, could lead the league in rushing.

[aec4]

Thats your belief, but I strongly disagree.

With Faneca, Ferguson, Mangold and Richardson leading the way, the combination of Jones, Washington and Chatman, if used correctly, could lead the league in rushing.

Thanks for the good laugh...

[Ghost]

Thats your belief, but I strongly disagree.

With Faneca, Ferguson, Mangold and Richardson leading the way, the combination of Jones, Washington and Chatman, if used correctly, could lead the league in rushing.

Just like Mike Nugent won't miss a FG next year ?

[124]

Thanks for the good laugh...

Yes, because Bust DMC is a sure thing and because all top tier rushing attacks must be led by superstars.

[madmike1]

Thats your belief, but I strongly disagree.

With Faneca, Ferguson, Mangold and Richardson leading the way, the combination of Jones, Washington and Chatman, if used correctly, could lead the league in rushing.

Except 2 of those guys have zero home run hitting abality and leon doesn't play that much at RB. The jets have ZERO home run hitting players on offense and McFadden is that guy.

[aec4]

Yes, because Bust DMC is a sure thing and because all top tier rushing attacks must be led by superstars.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I never said....

Just the trio of Jones/Washington/Chatman is NOT going to lead the league in rushing... I'd be surprised if they were in the top 5.

[Sperm Edwards]

Except 2 of those guys have zero home run hitting abality and leon doesn't play that much at RB. The jets have ZERO home run hitting players on offense and McFadden is that guy.

Jones kept Chicago in the superbowl early-on with his 50-yard run.

I still don't think much of him, but given a little running room he'll be adequate enough; particularly if we give Leon more than 5 carries per game & delegate short-yardage to Chatman.

With Jones/Benson at RB and Grossman at QB, Chicago had the league's top offense for a while in '06.

[Damaged89]

I think coming into this offseason our need for an offensive line was alot more important than a need for "home run hitters." The reason for the lack of explosive plays had more to do with our terrible o-line and Schotty never calling a play that had a receiver go more than 8 yards downfield than a lack of gamebreakers. Leon is most definitely a big play threat, and while Cotch isn't a true deep threat, he still can make big plays with YAC.

[aec4]

I think coming into this offseason our need for an offensive line was alot more important than a need for "home run hitters." The reason for the lack of explosive plays had more to do with our terrible o-line and Schotty never calling a play that had a receiver go more than 8 yards downfield than a lack of gamebreakers. Leon is most definitely a big play threat, and while Cotch isn't a true deep threat, he still can make big plays with YAC.

Until we have a QB that can scare the defense a little, it doesn't matter how good our OL is. It's hard for 5 to block 8 or 9.

[serphnx]

I think Roy Williams is a mistake, I would not do this. This reminds me of TJ a year ago. Everyone was hyping him up and claiming we were stealing from the Bears. At least TJ stayed healthy and had a good attitude, Roy Williams, as far as I know, is always injured and has a ****ty attitude. And I don't think his talent is enough to be worth what he thinks he's worth even when he does play.

[gangreenman]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I never said....

Just the trio of Jones/Washington/Chatman is NOT going to lead the league in rushing... I'd be surprised if they were in the top 5.

How do you know this?

I'm not saying its a sure thing either, in fact, 26 of the 32 teams in the league will not be top 5 in the league. I think now that we have a good OL, and a much improved defense, Jones and Washington will be much more productive, and the addition of Chatman for the short yardage situation will certainly be a help.

As for your argument about 5 vs. 8, then why don't defenses stack 8 or 9 in the box against every team? Defenses do that to teams who have chitty OL's because they know that their DL alone could put enough pressure on the QB so that throwing the ball more then 5-10 yards is just about impossible. Therefore, they'd rush the front 4, and have another 4 just sitting there waiting for the pass and clogging up room. With a good OL, however, the front 4 is not always going to get to the QB, and more people have to be sent, meaning more room over the middle, a possibility of a draw or trick run play, etc. etc.

[Irish Jet]

Thats your belief, but I strongly disagree.

With Faneca, Ferguson, Mangold and Richardson leading the way, the combination of Jones, Washington and Chatman, if used correctly, could lead the league in rushing.

No, not anywhere close when you actually consider the competition.

Minnesota?? With AP and Chester are way ahead, not to mention an even better run blocking group.

San Diego??? LT + Sproles >>>>> Jones + Leon

Jacksonville??? With Taylor + MJD???

That's just a few of the teams which I think will have a much much better ground attack than us next season. TJ + Leon aren't even close to those groups in terms of talent.

[Irish Jet]

I think Roy Williams is a mistake, I would not do this. This reminds me of TJ a year ago. Everyone was hyping him up and claiming we were stealing from the Bears. At least TJ stayed healthy and had a good attitude, Roy Williams, as far as I know, is always injured and has a ****ty attitude. And I don't think his talent is enough to be worth what he thinks he's worth even when he does play.

But Roy Williams has elite potential. Jones did not.

A change of scenery would do this guy good. Great players can rot in Detroit. I couldn't blame him for having a ****ty attitude there.

[joiseyjet]

I would pull the trigger on this deal in a heart beat. Man we would be like 100% improved over what we had at the end of last season on BOTH sides of the ball. Hey maybe Millens looking to take a WR at the #6 spot.

While this deal seems interesting ,it could be just Tann. making Dallas think while we may not take McFadden at the #6 spot we may be willing to trade to someone other Dallas who will pick McFadden so Dallas ups their offer to us....

[aec4]

As for your argument about 5 vs. 8, then why don't defenses stack 8 or 9 in the box against every team?

Why? Other teams have a QB/WR that can stretch the field. Teams stick 8 in the box to stop the run.. Not because they have crappy OLs. They put 8 in the box when they do not fear the pass.

[gangreenman]

No, not anywhere close when you actually consider the competition.

Minnesota?? With AP and Chester are way ahead, not to mention an even better run blocking group.

San Diego??? LT + Sproles >>>>> Jones + Leon

Jacksonville??? With Taylor + MJD???

That's just a few of the teams which I think will have a much much better ground attack than us next season. TJ + Leon aren't even close to those groups in terms of talent.

I agree LT is easily the best RB in the NFL.

AP had a great year last season, but he also had a stellar OL in front of him. He is definately good, I'm not so sure if I'd put him up there as elite after just 1 season though.

Anyway, Jones and Leon are definately capable of great, great numbers behind good blocking and solid QB play. Are they better talent wise then LT or AP? No. But if they can get stellar blocking and improvement on defense (which will help because it will force opposing defenses to stay on the field longer, meaning they get tired, etc.), they are capable of a better season then them.

BTW: Jones + Leon =Taylor + MJD talent wise, IMO.

[Irish Jet]

BTW: Jones + Leon =Taylor + MJD talent wise, IMO.

Okay, you are officially crazy.

Taylor is much better than Jones and well as much as I love Leon he really isn't even in The little big mans league.

Jones-Drew will be an elite back someday, he's absolutely amazing.

[Irish Jet]

I agree LT is easily the best RB in the NFL.

AP had a great year last season, but he also had a stellar OL in front of him. He is definately good, I'm not so sure if I'd put him up there as elite after just 1 season though.

Anyway, Jones and Leon are definately capable of great, great numbers behind good blocking and solid QB play. Are they better talent wise then LT or AP? No. But if they can get stellar blocking and improvement on defense (which will help because it will force opposing defenses to stay on the field longer, meaning they get tired, etc.), they are capable of a better season then them.

Peterson and Chester Taylor have Steve Hutchinson and Matt Birk in front of them, McKinnie isn't half bad either. Their RB's are better than ours without a shadow of a doubt (AP could become the best in the league, even better than LT).

Normally I wouldn't dub a back 'elite' after their rokkie campaign. Peterson however, is an exception.

[gangreenman]

Why? Other teams have a QB/WR that can stretch the field. Teams stick 8 in the box to stop the run.. Not because they have crappy OLs. They put 8 in the box when they do not fear the pass.

But that shouldn't matter if it is true that "even 5 good Offensive Lineman cant stop 8 or 9 defensive players." After all, if the 8 defensive players can get to the QB w/out being blocked, then even the best QB with the fastest receiver won't be able to 'stretch the field.'

However, defenses rarely ever send 8 blitzers, because it would leave the whole middle of the field open for the short, dumpoff pass that could net the offense an easy 5 yds or so. Teams that stack 8 in the box do so knowing that their front 4 alone can generate the pressure that sending 8 would usually do, therefore leaving players in the middle of the field to stop that dump-off pass from working. It actually has nothing to do with the QB's arm strength or the WR's speed. After all, even Chad can complete the 20 yard floaters that would be open if the defense were to stack 8 in the box against a good OL.

[aec4]

But that shouldn't matter if it is true that "even 5 good Offensive Lineman cant stop 8 or 9 defensive players." After all, if the 8 defensive players can get to the QB w/out being blocked, then even the best QB with the fastest receiver won't be able to 'stretch the field.'

However, defenses rarely ever send 8 blitzers, because it would leave the whole middle of the field open for the short, dumpoff pass that could net the offense an easy 5 yds or so. Teams that stack 8 in the box do so knowing that their front 4 alone can generate the pressure that sending 8 would usually do, therefore leaving players in the middle of the field to stop that dump-off pass from working. It actually has nothing to do with the QB's arm strength or the WR's speed. After all, even Chad can complete the 20 yard floaters that would be open if the defense were to stack 8 in the box against a good OL.

noone sends 8 blitzers.. You're just trying to make an argument now.

Watch the games. 8 men go into the box when a team CAN'T stop the run OR if the offense can't scare you with the pass. This is the problem with Pennington. He can't stretch the field, so the safeties move up... and can support the run.

[flgreen]

If it's been done I apologize, but...............

could we at least be given a link to the Message board this is being discussed on.

I just came from 3 boards looking for this, and can't fine it anywhere except here.

Not saying that you are making this up, but please give us the link this rumor was discussed on.

Thanks

[gangreenman]

Okay, you are officially crazy.

Taylor is much better than Jones and well as much as I love Leon he really isn't even in The little big mans league.

Jones-Drew will be an elite back someday, he's absolutely amazing.

Good, Im glad its official now, I was getting tired of being in that whole "unofficial but probably" mess.

Anyway, how do you figure Taylor is much better than Jones? Jones had a piece of sh*t OL in front of him, 2 QB's that were below average on a good day, and a terrible defense that kept him off the field for a good portion of each game. Yet, he still averaged over 3.5 ypc and got over 1000 yds rushing this season.

MJD is really not that much better then Leon, the Jags just put him in when Taylor is getting tired and the defense is too tired to catch him from behind. In other words, I'd say Leon is just about equal to MJD, but the Jacksonville coaches have used MJD much more efficiently then Mangini did last season.

[gangreenman]

noone sends 8 blitzers.. You're just trying to make an argument now.

Watch the games. 8 men go into the box when a team CAN'T stop the run OR if the offense can't scare you with the pass. This is the problem with Pennington. He can't stretch the field, so the safeties move up... and can support the run.

I suggest you re-read my post before you comment, I know that teams rarely send 8.

I do watch the games, and I read and study the game as a whole on the side. As for your Penny comment, if the defensive front 4 couldnt get to the QB frequently by themselves, even Penny could complete the 10-15 yard lob that would be open if the safeties were to come up to stop the run.

[Ghost]

Except 2 of those guys have zero home run hitting abality and leon doesn't play that much at RB. The jets have ZERO home run hitting players on offense and McFadden is that guy.

Great post man, this is what I been saying this entire time.

McFadden is our guy without a dought.

[Irish Jet]

Good, Im glad its official now, I was getting tired of being in that whole "unofficial but probably" mess.

Anyway, how do you figure Taylor is much better than Jones? Jones had a piece of sh*t OL in front of him, 2 QB's that were below average on a good day, and a terrible defense that kept him off the field for a good portion of each game. Yet, he still averaged over 3.5 ypc and got over 1000 yds rushing this season.

MJD is really not that much better then Leon, the Jags just put him in when Taylor is getting tired and the defense is too tired to catch him from behind. In other words, I'd say Leon is just about equal to MJD, but the Jacksonville coaches have used MJD much more efficiently then Mangini did last season.

Well Fred Taylor has had his fair share of ****ty O-lines over the years yet he has only once had less than 4 YPC and that year he had 3.9.

Taylor is faster (he still has unbelievable speed for his age) and runs so much better in between the tackles. He never hesitates behind the line and hits the hole with great burst, there isn't anything I'd say Jones is better than him at. Not a thing.

Age may indeed catch up with him next year but until I see that with my eyes he will be much better than Jones in my book.

Like I said I love Leon, he may be my favourite Jet but Maurice Jones Drew is absolutely ridiculous. Your theory isn't right because when he's had to be the full time starter (When taylor's been injured) he's came in and performed exceptionally well.

The guys has 22 Rushing TD's, 2 recieving TD's and 2 KR TD's in only 2 ****ing years. That's absolutely unreal. 26 TD's in two years????

Admittedly he's in a much better situation than Leon and I'd love to see Leon used more often but until you've seen it you can't justify that arguement.

[aec4]

I suggest you re-read my post before you comment, I know that teams rarely send 8.

I do watch the games, and I read and study the game as a whole on the side. As for your Penny comment, if the defensive front 4 couldnt get to the QB frequently by themselves, even Penny could complete the 10-15 yard lob that would be open if the safeties were to come up to stop the run.

I read your post... clearly, you change what I am saying so you can try to make a point.....

However, back on topic:

they can bring 5 or 6, because there is no fear that if the blitz is picked up that they are going to beat deep..

[gangreenman]

I read your post... clearly, you change what I am saying so you can try to make a point.....

However, back on topic:

they can bring 5 or 6, because there is no fear that if the blitz is picked up that they are going to beat deep..

Slow down, when did I change what you were saying?

In an earlier post you said something like "5 good lineman cant block 8 defensive players in the box". If this were true, defenses would always send 8 players because the QB would never be able to throw deep. However, they DO NOT send 8 because, while it would take away the deep ball, it would leave the entire middle of the field open for an easy 5 yard dump-off pass every time. Therefore, defenses that stack the box, do so knowing that their front 4 or 5 can get to the QB, thus leaving 3 or 4 players to cover the middle of the field and stop the dumpoff.

However, if its a good OL we're talking about, and those 4 or 5 blitzers cant get to the QB, that would leave two or three one on one matchups with the WR's, which is an offensive advantage in and of itself. However, since those 4 or 5 cant get to the QB, the QB has time to find an open man downfield and lob it to him, even if he cant throw deep on a rope.

So, if you take all that into consideration, the ONLY reason a team would stack the box is if that team trusts their front 4 or 5 to get to the QB, thus preventing a deep throw.

[aec4]

Slow down, when did I change what you were saying?

In an earlier post you said something like "5 good lineman cant block 8 defensive players in the box". If this were true, defenses would always send 8 players because the QB would never be able to throw deep. However, they DO NOT send 8 because, while it would take away the deep ball, it would leave the entire middle of the field open for an easy 5 yard dump-off pass every time. Therefore, defenses that stack the box, do so knowing that their front 4 or 5 can get to the QB, thus leaving 3 or 4 players to cover the middle of the field and stop the dumpoff.

However, if its a good OL we're talking about, and those 4 or 5 blitzers cant get to the QB, that would leave two or three one on one matchups with the WR's, which is an offensive advantage in and of itself. However, since those 4 or 5 cant get to the QB, the QB has time to find an open man downfield and lob it to him, even if he cant throw deep on a rope.

So, if you take all that into consideration, the ONLY reason a team would stack the box is if that team trusts their front 4 or 5 to get to the QB, thus preventing a deep throw.

Enough of this BS.

I said 8 in the box, you all of a sudden said 8 rushing the passer...

I'm done.. this is like arguing with the wife.. you can't win.

[gangreenman]

Enough of this BS.

I said 8 in the box, you all of a sudden said 8 rushing the passer...

I'm done.. this is like arguing with the wife.. you can't win.

Sorry, but considering the fact that the OL wouldnt have to block all 8 in the box, I assumed you meant that 5 vs. 8 comment as meaning in terms of pass blocking.

FYI, a normal defensive set has 7 in the box, while a normal offense still has 5 OL. So basically you're saying that one extra guy in the box on defense can make that much of a difference if the OL is good enough to stop the front 4?

[aec4]

Sorry, but considering the fact that the OL wouldnt have to block all 8 in the box, I assumed you meant that 5 vs. 8 comment as meaning in terms of pass blocking.

FYI, a normal defensive set has 7 in the box, while a normal offense still has 5 OL. So basically you're saying that one extra guy in the box on defense can make that much of a difference if the OL is good enough to stop the front 4?

8 in the box will help stop the run.

I stand corrected... You're worse than my wife.. She knows when to quit.