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Detroit-NYJ rumor: Roy for the #6


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8 in the box will help stop the run.

I stand corrected... You're worse than my wife.. She knows when to quit.

Yes, but it would leave you more vulnerable to the pass, more so then it would help against the run.

Thats why defenses dont do it unless they know that their pass rush will get there.

And about the wife stuff, I'm sorry, I didnt realize I was just supposed to give up for no reason.

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The Lion's boards are talking about an insane rumor. Apparently Roy Williams IS on the trading block, and the Jets will consider moving from #6 to #15 with Roy being the compensation. Now, I'm

there's one thing about this though. It would only happen on draft day. unless Millen really is dumb.

Cause Thomas jones is 30 years old... and I dont have faith in leon washington or jesse chatman... we need to think of that for the future and this is a strong rb draft.. one of the best in years

Yes, but it would leave you more vulnerable to the pass, more so then it would help against the run.

Thats why defenses dont do it unless they know that their pass rush will get there.

And about the wife stuff, I'm sorry, I didnt realize I was just supposed to give up for no reason.

Let me explain this for you SLOWLY so you understand.

If you commit 8 to the run ("8 in the box"), you ARE more vulnerable against the pas. That we agree. However, if you have someone like Pennington at QB combined with absolutely NO deep threat, you can guard BOTH at the same time and still have 8 in the box because there is NO THREAT of going over the top. This means a safety can WALK UP for run support, and the team would NOT be vulnerable against the pass because the team's passing game is all done within 10 yards of the LOS.

Now, I promise, I've had enough. I'd have more fun beating my head into the wall.

Prime example. Jets v Oakland in Oakland in the playoffs with Pennington at the helm. They pressured the WRs man to man, and committed everyone else to the run...

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Let me explain this for you SLOWLY so you understand.

If you commit 8 to the run ("8 in the box"), you ARE more vulnerable against the pas. That we agree. However, if you have someone like Pennington at QB combined with absolutely NO deep threat, you can guard BOTH at the same time and still have 8 in the box because there is NO THREAT of going over the top. This means a safety can WALK UP for run support, and the team would NOT be vulnerable against the pass because the team's passing game is all done within 10 yards of the LOS.

Now, I promise, I've had enough. I'd have more fun beating my head into the wall.

Prime example. Jets v Oakland in Oakland in the playoffs with Pennington at the helm. They pressured the WRs man to man, and committed everyone else to the run...

But Pennington is more then capable of throwing the 15-30 yard lob pass against 1 on 1 coverage if he's given time in the pocket to do so. If you remember, we started off that OAK game with one of those lobs down the sideline that was nearly a TD but was called pass interference as Woodson tripped Coles. If Herm had half a brain he wouldve used that play more often, instead he just tried to run the ball and throw it right into the heart of their 8 man front. :shutit:

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But Pennington is more then capable of throwing the 15-30 yard lob pass against 1 on 1 coverage if he's given time in the pocket to do so. If you remember, we started off that OAK game with one of those lobs down the sideline that was nearly a TD but was called pass interference as Woodson tripped Coles. If Herm had half a brain he wouldve used that play more often, instead he just tried to run the ball and throw it right into the heart of their 8 man front. :shutit:

Pennington had his original rotator cuff then too.

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Pennington had his original rotator cuff then too.

While that is true, it is also true that he is still capable of throwing a 20 yard lob if given time and an open receiver.

Im not trying to make the argument that Chad is a good QB, Im just arguing that he was not the reason for teams stacking 8 in the box last year.

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While that is true, it is also true that he is still capable of throwing a 20 yard lob if given time and an open receiver.

Im not trying to make the argument that Chad is a good QB, Im just arguing that he was not the reason for teams stacking 8 in the box last year.

I'd disagree 100% with that.

We had absolutely no deep threats, which contributed to it too I'll admit, but when you're QB can't throw it deep consistently, you're going to see 8 in the box.

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I'd disagree 100% with that.

We had absolutely no deep threats, which contributed to it too I'll admit, but when you're QB can't throw it deep consistently, you're going to see 8 in the box.

It actually has very little to do with either. The only reason the QB couldnt throw deep last year was because the defenses front 4 would easily get to the QB, forcing the QB to look for check downs and dump offs in the middle of the field.

However, when teams realized quite how terrible our OL really was, they brought extra people in the box to take away that easy dump off. My proof is that for 1) Pennington completed many 20+ yard lobs in 2006, when he was in the same medical state. 2) teams stacked 8 in the box against Clemens as well, even though it is quite clear that he has a much stronger arm then Pennington, and it still worked.

If defenses were to try the same thing with this years OL, they would get torched by the pass and would be forced to play a base defense.

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It actually has very little to do with either. The only reason the QB couldnt throw deep last year was because the defenses front 4 would easily get to the QB, forcing the QB to look for check downs and dump offs in the middle of the field.

However, when teams realized quite how terrible our OL really was, they brought extra people in the box to take away that easy dump off. My proof is that for 1) Pennington completed many 20+ yard lobs in 2006, when he was in the same medical state. 2) teams stacked 8 in the box against Clemens as well, even though it is quite clear that he has a much stronger arm then Pennington, and it still worked.

If defenses were to try the same thing with this years OL, they would get torched by the pass and would be forced to play a base defense.

Again, I disagree 100%. It's laughable that you think they play 8 in the box to stop the pass. Absolutely laughable. You play 8 in the box to take away the RUN. Teams did, but since our passing game has absolutely no threat, then we couldn't pass either.

Clemens had no accuracy with the deep ball. Good arm or not, no accuracy = no concern.

If they try the same thing this year, they'll stop the run. Will we beat it with the pass? Doubtful with these 2 QBs.

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Again, I disagree 100%.

Clemens had no accuracy with the deep ball. Good arm or not, no accuracy = no concern.

If they try the same thing this year, they'll stop the run. Will we beat it with the pass? Doubtful with these 2 QBs.

To be fair though he never threw it deep that much, and when he did he did so with happy feet and looking behind him, instead of just playing football.

Remember that Dolphins @ Jets game in 2006, when the Dolphins stacked 9 in the box at the end of the game and Chad just threw a 20 yard lob to a wide open LC, who ran it in for the TD to ice the game? Thats a prime example of what I am talking about. And there's not a QB in the league who couldn't make that pass given the time needed to do so.

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It actually has very little to do with either. The only reason the QB couldnt throw deep last year was because the defenses front 4 would easily get to the QB, forcing the QB to look for check downs and dump offs in the middle of the field.

However, when teams realized quite how terrible our OL really was, they brought extra people in the box to take away that easy dump off. My proof is that for 1) Pennington completed many 20+ yard lobs in 2006, when he was in the same medical state. 2) teams stacked 8 in the box against Clemens as well, even though it is quite clear that he has a much stronger arm then Pennington, and it still worked.

If defenses were to try the same thing with this years OL, they would get torched by the pass and would be forced to play a base defense.

They would only be "torched" if clemens is in the game. Chad will not be able to stretch the field consistently. We really need that. I will be extremely pissed if Chad is the starter.

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To be fair though he never threw it deep that much, and when he did he did so with happy feet and looking behind him, instead of just playing football.

Remember that Dolphins @ Jets game in 2006, when the Dolphins stacked 9 in the box at the end of the game and Chad just threw a 20 yard lob to a wide open LC, who ran it in for the TD to ice the game? Thats a prime example of what I am talking about. And there's not a QB in the league who couldn't make that pass given the time needed to do so.

Yeah but that's hardly a fair example. That's the end of the game.. we're winning. They need to stop us to get the ball back. That was an ALL OUT RUN STOP WHO GIVES 2 ****S IF THEY PASS. That's a lot different.

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Yeah but that's hardly a fair example. That's the end of the game.. we're winning. They need to stop us to get the ball back. That was an ALL OUT RUN STOP WHO GIVES 2 ****S IF THEY PASS. That's a lot different.

BS!!!

Just watched that play on NFL.com. The Jets were winning 6-3 or else is was 3-3. Hardly 'all out run stop' material.

Not only that but we were in a 3 WR, 1 TE set. That's more a passing formation. They has safetys there on that play too, Chad looked them off while Coles ****ed up a CB with a move.

That play wasn't even near the end of the game. Both you and GGM are wrong on that one.

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BS!!!

Just watched that play on NFL.com. The Jets were winning 6-3 or else is was 3-3. Hardly 'all out run stop' material.

Not only that but we were in a 3 WR, 1 TE set. That's more a passing formation. They has safetys there on that play too, Chad looked them off while Coles ****ed up a CB with a move.

That play wasn't even near the end of the game. Both you and GGM are wrong on that one.

Well I relied on his memory. ... If I was wrong, so be it.

Now it's time for you to go back to worrying about what the middle striker is doing... leave footballto us who know it.

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No, not anywhere close when you actually consider the competition.

Minnesota?? With AP and Chester are way ahead, not to mention an even better run blocking group.

San Diego??? LT + Sproles >>>>> Jones + Leon

Jacksonville??? With Taylor + MJD???

That's just a few of the teams which I think will have a much much better ground attack than us next season. TJ + Leon aren't even close to those groups in terms of talent.

The backs alone do not matter. You have to account the Fullback and the Offensive Line as well. I'm sorry, but the Jets took away Minnesota's leading blocker in Richardson and although the Vikings may have a solid Offensive Line on the Left Side still, the Jets do as well plus Richardson.

Sproles? Are you serious? He's a returner, nothing more.

These 1-2 combinations are great on paper, yes, but what matters are the STATS. Of all those teams, only Minnesota will run the ball as much as the Jets will in 2008. Book it.

I still cannot understand the hatred for Thomas Jones. The guy ran very well for the line he was forced to run behind and for having to run with a weak armed QB and a young kid, neither of whom got respect so the box was packed. It didn't help that Schottenheimer didn't use Washington as much as he should've either. Thomas Jones is a solid back.

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BS!!!

Just watched that play on NFL.com. The Jets were winning 6-3 or else is was 3-3. Hardly 'all out run stop' material.

Not only that but we were in a 3 WR, 1 TE set. That's more a passing formation. They has safetys there on that play too, Chad looked them off while Coles ****ed up a CB with a move.

That play wasn't even near the end of the game. Both you and GGM are wrong on that one.

Pretty sure it was near the end actually IJ...

It was in the 4th quarter, I remember that much.

If I remember correctly, it was 1st and 10, and we were driving with a small lead (maybe a FG or two), and Chad saw the safeties sneaking up into the box and the CB's playing bump and run. He audibled, snapped the ball, looked off the safety that they left back, and just floated it about 20-25 yds downfield to a wide open coles, who took it in for a score and virtually iced the game for us (although they did stage a comeback we only won by 3, but still.)

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The backs alone do not matter. You have to account the Fullback and the Offensive Line as well. I'm sorry, but the Jets took away Minnesota's leading blocker in Richardson and although the Vikings may have a solid Offensive Line on the Left Side still, the Jets do as well plus Richardson.

Sproles? Are you serious? He's a returner, nothing more.

These 1-2 combinations are great on paper, yes, but what matters are the STATS. Of all those teams, only Minnesota will run the ball as much as the Jets will in 2008. Book it.

I still cannot understand the hatred for Thomas Jones. The guy ran very well for the line he was forced to run behind and for having to run with a weak armed QB and a young kid, neither of whom got respect so the box was packed. It didn't help that Schottenheimer didn't use Washington as much as he should've either. Thomas Jones is a solid back.

true

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The Lion's boards are talking about an insane rumor. Apparently Roy Williams IS on the trading block, and the Jets will consider moving from #6 to #15 with Roy being the compensation.

Now, I'm not one to pass rumors along; but this one intrigues me on several levels:

1) Roy out of Detroit has surfaced before.

2) Detroit just cut Kevin Jones, and signed the injured Tatum Bell to a ONE year deal...so,

3) Them getting Darren McFadden seems awfully tempting.

I for one would like to acquire the services of one Roy Williams, and if it means we can move down in the draft and acquire a cheaper player who is 1) still the BAP and 2) a player of need (like Mike Jenkins or DMC) .....then I'm all for it.

If this rumor has any truth to it... We can acquire a #1 WR, a #1 CB (for this draft), and a #1 ILB (Croften or Avril) at the top of the second....even if it takes a 4th rounder for pursausion.

On top of that, I have an inkling that we might be trading Drob for Daniel Graham (a great blocking TE) which would mean we would have both a formidable offense and a formidable defense.

I'd do that trade in a motherf_ckin heartbeat. R-Will would look great in a Jet uniform and would make Coles expendable. Even the #6 pick for Roy Williams straight up is a good trade for the Jets unless Gholston doesn't turn out to be Demarcus Ware on steroids.

Too bad even Matt Millen isn't stupid enough to get raped like this.

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I'd definitely do it if we only had to move down 9 spots. Roy Williams has elite talent, but he's merely been a good player. Not worth the 6th by himself.

Def not... Larry fitz is the only one wortha six..that was semi avaiiliable.. not anymore..

Now I can see why you hate mcfadden..your sig...

I guess because he abused your team...lol

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I'd do that trade in a motherf_ckin heartbeat. R-Will would look great in a Jet uniform and would make Coles expendable. Even the #6 pick for Roy Williams straight up is a good trade for the Jets unless Gholston doesn't turn out to be Demarcus Ware on steroids.

Too bad even Matt Millen isn't stupid enough to get raped like this.

i would do the deal too, but it isn't a no-brainer - the jets would have to fork over another 25M in SB.

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has there been anything reported at all other than message board chatter to gives this rumor any legs? It doesnt make any sense to me that Detroit would trade ROY and a 1st to move up. Maybe there is something to the rumor, but i guarentee you we will be paying more than that to aquire him

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Def not... Larry fitz is the only one wortha six..that was semi avaiiliable.. not anymore..

Now I can see why you hate mcfadden..your sig...

I guess because he abused your team...lol

I don't hate McFadden. I don't hate any player from the SEC unless they play for the Patriots.

And if you actually watched the Arkansas/LSU game, maybe your hard-on for McFadden would soften. Methinks he won't be getting any 200 yard rushing games in the NFL by lining up at QB for 90% of the game.

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has there been anything reported at all other than message board chatter to gives this rumor any legs? It doesnt make any sense to me that Detroit would trade ROY and a 1st to move up. Maybe there is something to the rumor, but i guarentee you we will be paying more than that to aquire him

Detroit finally hit it right with Roy Williams after having a horrible record drafting in the early rounds (Exp. Joey Harrington, Mike Williams, Charles Rodgers, Shaun cody etc) . Why they would even THINK of trading Williams to just move up in the 1st round totally baffles me. I know Matt Millan is nuts but is he this stupid ?

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I don't hate McFadden. I don't hate any player from the SEC unless they play for the Patriots.

And if you actually watched the Arkansas/LSU game, maybe your hard-on for McFadden would soften. Methinks he won't be getting any 200 yard rushing games in the NFL by lining up at QB for 90% of the game.

While I agree, he won't line up at QB.. One thing was certain. EVERYONE in that stadium knew he was going to run it and he still did. Sur,e he passed the ball 3-4 times, even for a TD if I remember, but come on, we knew he was running it or he was handing it to Jones.... They had 9 men committed to the run and still lost.

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While I agree, he won't line up at QB.. One thing was certain. EVERYONE in that stadium knew he was going to run it and he still did. Sur,e he passed the ball 3-4 times, even for a TD if I remember, but come on, we knew he was running it or he was handing it to Jones.... They had 9 men committed to the run and still lost.

So why didn't we use Scott Frost at RB?

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i went to a lions forum, and they laughed pretty hard about this even being a proposal. One of them said "this is the stupidist trade I've ever heard of. I've said that before, so you never know."

All told, they were pretty damn funny. They have less than zero faith in millen, it's not so much a forum as it is a support group. If any of you are in for a good laugh, google a lions forum...lol.

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I don't hate McFadden. I don't hate any player from the SEC unless they play for the Patriots.

And if you actually watched the Arkansas/LSU game, maybe your hard-on for McFadden would soften. Methinks he won't be getting any 200 yard rushing games in the NFL by lining up at QB for 90% of the game.

Didn't he have 40 some carries that game as well? Makes 200 yards a bit easier, no?

If and when he lines up at Quarterback in the NFL, where the big boys play, well, good luck to Bust DMC. He'll be popped in the mouth so fast his head will spin around twice.

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