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Woody says Tangini is safe regardless of this season

Bravejamriot

By Bravejamriot
in NY Jets Forum

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aec4

aec4

Posted
Posted
That came from teh Daily News, which also said that Pennington WILL NOT be traded in 2008, and will be given every opportunity to compete for the starters role.

Didn't you catch the memo, it's a requirement that each post is replicated 3 times :)

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DMaynard

DMaynard

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The fact tthat Penny is still on the roster, speaks volumes on their feelings about Clemens

That sucks, because we'll have to use one of our 1st 2 picks to select a QB

It speaks volumes on Chad's untradability.

And if you, obviously, don't care for Clemens, why does drafting another QB suck? Or are you one of the disillusioned who believe Chad is the answer?

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jack48

jack48

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The fact tthat Penny is still on the roster, speaks volumes on their feelings about Clemens

That sucks, because we'll have to use one of our 1st 2 picks to select a QB

I actually do not believe anything that GM's say. And I mean anything. I think there is a good chance Chad will be gone. He is our last link to our mediocre past. Keeping Captain Checkdown around is not insurance, unless you consider guaranteed losing a form of insurance. I think they will get an experienced backup. Teams have zero regard for Chad from a defensive perspective. Or maybe they will draft Ryan. But why spend all this money on middle aged Fs and then draft a guy who will not win for 2 or 3 years. Plus, you still have to upgrade LB, WR and the OL (a bit). Here is what I think. I think they have gone over the films and decided thay like KC. The only problem with that is why keep CP around to foul the waters? I don't care what kind of a press conference face CP puts on, he will not like it and the clubhouse will suffer. Toadies from the press will keep running to him and asking him if he wants to start. It is best to get him out of here.

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joebabyny

joebabyny

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It speaks volumes on Chad's untradability.

And if you, obviously, don't care for Clemens, why does drafting another QB suck? Or are you one of the disillusioned who believe Chad is the answer?

Well at this point I don't think anyone really believes Chad is the "answer" as far as a long term qb to carry the jets. The issue now is whether he is the best solution we have. I think both sides of that debate can make valid points, but I think the coaching staff is showing more of the feeling that KC is not the guy then they are showing he is the guy. And if KC is not the guy, Chad is the more capable of the two we have in the locker room right now.

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NJ

NJ

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Noone is trading with the Jets for Pennington to absorb his contract.. Not happening.

And Pennington's not going come off his sick ego belief that he's a a top flight NFL starter - and worth the millions we have to pay him. Bad situation - they won't be able to deal him till his azz is full of splinters next year.

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joebabyny

joebabyny

Posted
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And Pennington's not going come off his sick ego belief that he's a a top flight NFL starter - and worth the millions we have to pay him. Bad situation - they won't be able to deal him till his azz is full of splinters next year.

I don't know, i think if faced with the fact that he won't be a starter here and if a team steps up that would give him a starting spot then yeah, i think Chad would consider it and rework his contract.

But, I don't see him reworking his contract just to be a good guy to the jets and be a lower paid backup. And I seriously doubt anyone here would do that if they were in his situation.

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NJ

NJ

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I don't know, i think if faced with the fact that he won't be a starter here and if a team steps up that would give him a starting spot then yeah, i think Chad would consider it and rework his contract.

But, I don't see him reworking his contract just to be a good guy to the jets and be a lower paid backup. And I seriously doubt anyone here would do that if they were in his situation.

I'd never expect him to rework and ride the pines for the Jets. He already did that once Joe - and to his credit. I hope your right about him taking less money to be a starter elsewhere. It would raise him up a few notches from all the talk about him not doing this or that because he's unhappy about his demotion.

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aec4

aec4

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And Pennington's not going come off his sick ego belief that he's a a top flight NFL starter - and worth the millions we have to pay him. Bad situation - they won't be able to deal him till his azz is full of splinters next year.

but I'd say right here with the NYJ is one of his best shots to start.

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aec4

aec4

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his best shot at starting is with his old coach in KC

I don't know if I agree, but I can see the argument. Definitely in the top 3. Why am I unsure? I think KC knows they're rebuilding.. may as well play Croyle. The Jets just spent 9 figures on FAs. They want to win NOW.

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joebabyny

joebabyny

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I'd never expect him to rework and ride the pines for the Jets. He already did that once Joe - and to his credit. I hope your right about him taking less money to be a starter elsewhere. It would raise him up a few notches from all the talk about him not doing this or that because he's unhappy about his demotion.

What do you mean by this? I hadn't heard about him not being a team player or holding out from things due to his demotion, doesn't mean it isn't happening, but I just hadn't heard of it.

I guess in the end if it truly is about starting he will rework for the right team, if it is about the money first then no he won't rework.

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CoachTsurfing

CoachTsurfing

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They should get something for pennington while they can.

I wouldn't trade him unless it was for a good player at a position we need or a 2nd or above. I don't think he's worth it to other teams, it's just that he's important to us. There isn't a free agent out there that is as good as chad nor one that knows the system. If we do catch lightening in a bottle and go deep in the playoffs and clemens gets hurt, Penny will be waiting in the wings and know the system.

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Maxman

Maxman

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Interesting -- they should draft a QB early this year. If Clemens doesn't work out they have a built in excuse (and replacement). The whole dynamic of coaches positioning themselves is really amazing.

Now I believe coaches get fired too fast these days. And I think it is getting back to a more reasonable level. Let's say the Jets moves this offseason are all good. But the QB position holds them back.

Do they fire these guys for missing on Clemens and getting almost everything else right? (hypothetical of course). Or do you give them a chance to get another QB?

I think of Cowher whenever they talk about a young coach getting fired. Took him a long time and that organization showed a lot of patience with him. It was rewarded.

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serphnx

serphnx

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Interesting -- they should draft a QB early this year. If Clemens doesn't work out they have a built in excuse (and replacement). The whole dynamic of coaches positioning themselves is really amazing.

Now I believe coaches get fired too fast these days. And I think it is getting back to a more reasonable level. Let's say the Jets moves this offseason are all good. But the QB position holds them back.

Do they fire these guys for missing on Clemens and getting almost everything else right? (hypothetical of course). Or do you give them a chance to get another QB?

I think of Cowher whenever they talk about a young coach getting fired. Took him a long time and that organization showed a lot of patience with him. It was rewarded.

What? The guy didn't post a losing season until his 7th season, making it to the playoffs in each of his first 6 seasons. Exactly how many young coaches do you know of that get fired for posting 10+ win seasons five of their first six seasons?

There is a huge difference between Cowher and your average "young" NFL coach. Cowher has never lost as many games in a season as Mangini did last year. That is like comparing Leon Washington to Barry Sanders, and claiming rookie RBs don't get a chance in the NFL.

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serphnx

serphnx

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Why draft another QB that you can't be any more sure of than Clemens? There's no guarantee either one will work out and you've lost a high draft pick that could have been used to fill a need and help the team win more games this year.

Besides the fact that a QB will take 2 to 3 years to develop and a lot of the key free agents they picked up this year will have significantly declined by then. So what will have been gained with all our free agency moves this year as all the critics have suggested?

This would not be a good way to build a team even counterproductive.

That's why I don't think they should draft a QB this year at the top of the draft. Let the Clemens situation work itself out with Pennington this year. If Clemens doesnt work out, and there's just as much reason to believe it will, Pennington can give the team another 2 years of playing more productively than a rookie. A tough pill to swallow to have Chad starting for another couple of years? Maybe. But even with Chad we don't know how good he can play with a better OL and running game.

Waiting on drafting a QB until next year makes the most sense right now.

This is a team that can win games now and a good draft could make a big difference in how many.

And starting Pennington isn't going to waste our FAs? He already wasted them the last time, now we rebuilt and he should waste talent again?

If not Pennington, which skilled veteran QB do you propose we bring in? Teams won't let proven QBs hit the market, the only QBs that ever make it to the market are those with significant question marks or flaws. Right now, I don't even see a plethora of question marks that could turn into great QBs if those questions (usually injury) were resolved.

QBs do not take 2-3 years to contribute nowadays. The best ones generally start their first season, and if there is talent on the team, they can even go 15-1, and then win an SB the next year. If there isn't talent, or even if they don't do great that first year, they still within year 3 have far higher payoffs than a guy who isn't going to develop into anything.

I'd rather we are competitive and make the playoffs and then actually have a shot at winning an SB in three years, than struggle to even make the playoffs and if we do, we have absolutely no shot of getting anywhere.

Clemens is a midget, a frail midget. The Jet fan in me wants to see him succeed. The realist in me says that if it took the guy this long to beat out Pennington, and couldn't even beat out Ramsey, that maybe this guy isn't actually all that good. Instead of having a weak arm to overcome, or a height problem to overcome, what is wrong with having a guy that won't have to overcome anything, and simply needs to learn the game at the pro level? Why is it a crime to want that type of QB if you are a Jet fan?

I agree Flacco isn't that QB btw. But if Matt Ryan can be? I'd rather use the #6 on him then, and not worry about having Glassington or Midgetens.

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CrazyCarl40

CrazyCarl40

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I think of Cowher whenever they talk about a young coach getting fired. Took him a long time and that organization showed a lot of patience with him. It was rewarded.

I completely agree with you Max. Have to give the coaching staff more leeway. I mean Rome wasn't built in a day. And we've been waiting a while for sustained more than mediocre-ness. And to be honest, Cowher is the only coach out there who I would take in a heartbeat over what we currently have.

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rick34125

rick34125

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And starting Pennington isn't going to waste our FAs? He already wasted them the last time, now we rebuilt and he should waste talent again?

If not Pennington, which skilled veteran QB do you propose we bring in? Teams won't let proven QBs hit the market, the only QBs that ever make it to the market are those with significant question marks or flaws. Right now, I don't even see a plethora of question marks that could turn into great QBs if those questions (usually injury) were resolved.

QBs do not take 2-3 years to contribute nowadays. The best ones generally start their first season, and if there is talent on the team, they can even go 15-1, and then win an SB the next year. If there isn't talent, or even if they don't do great that first year, they still within year 3 have far higher payoffs than a guy who isn't going to develop into anything.

I'd rather we are competitive and make the playoffs and then actually have a shot at winning an SB in three years, than struggle to even make the playoffs and if we do, we have absolutely no shot of getting anywhere.

Clemens is a midget, a frail midget. The Jet fan in me wants to see him succeed. The realist in me says that if it took the guy this long to beat out Pennington, and couldn't even beat out Ramsey, that maybe this guy isn't actually all that good. Instead of having a weak arm to overcome, or a height problem to overcome, what is wrong with having a guy that won't have to overcome anything, and simply needs to learn the game at the pro level? Why is it a crime to want that type of QB if you are a Jet fan?

I agree Flacco isn't that QB btw. But if Matt Ryan can be? I'd rather use the #6 on him then, and not worry about having Glassington or Midgetens.

The point is we don't know what we will get from Clemens. Last year Clemens was a first time starter playing behind one of the worst OLs and running games in the league.

Working from a position of doubt we should not use a high draft pick on another unproven QB. IMO drafting an impact player will only do more to improve our QB situation.

Let's put the best team we possibly can around our QBs and see how they perform.

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Instant Karma

Instant Karma

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What? The guy didn't post a losing season until his 7th season, making it to the playoffs in each of his first 6 seasons. Exactly how many young coaches do you know of that get fired for posting 10+ win seasons five of their first six seasons?

There is a huge difference between Cowher and your average "young" NFL coach. Cowher has never lost as many games in a season as Mangini did last year. That is like comparing Leon Washington to Barry Sanders, and claiming rookie RBs don't get a chance in the NFL.

Cowher took over the reins from Chuck Knoll. Mangini took them over from...well - somewhat less of a coach than that...

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jack48

jack48

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Why draft another QB that you can't be any more sure of than Clemens? There's no guarantee either one will work out and you've lost a high draft pick that could have been used to fill a need and help the team win more games this year.

Besides the fact that a QB will take 2 to 3 years to develop and a lot of the key free agents they picked up this year will have significantly declined by then. So what will have been gained with all our free agency moves this year as all the critics have suggested?

This would not be a good way to build a team even counterproductive.

That's why I don't think they should draft a QB this year at the top of the draft. Let the Clemens situation work itself out with Pennington this year. If Clemens doesnt work out, and there's just as much reason to believe it will, Pennington can give the team another 2 years of playing more productively than a rookie. A tough pill to swallow to have Chad starting for another couple of years? Maybe. But even with Chad we don't know how good he can play with a better OL and running game.

Waiting on drafting a QB until next year makes the most sense right now.

This is a team that can win games now and a good draft could make a big difference in how many.

Isn't it interesting how so many people seem to think it takes 2 or 3 years for a QB to come around (myself included) yet thhey are hammering on KC now.

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