Maxman Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Guys Wang is the Yankees # 1 starter. He is not an Ace. An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). He is a good pitcher. There is no problem, he will win a lot of games. I just refuse to call him an Ace right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Guys Wang is the Yankees # 1 starter. He is not an Ace. An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). He is a good pitcher. There is no problem, he will win a lot of games. I just refuse to call him an Ace right now. True, he'd never stand a chance against a true ace/former Cy Young winner in a guy like Roy Halliday unless he got tons of run support. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Guys Wang is the Yankees # 1 starter. He is not an Ace. An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). He is a good pitcher. There is no problem, he will win a lot of games. I just refuse to call him an Ace right now. Really, it is all semantics. I think that no one questions that Wang is teh "1 or ":ace" of teh Yankee staff. he is teh guy that they rely on to stop any losing streak and teh guy that they look for in a big spot. And he does a very good job at that. Is he dominant in thye sexy stats like an "ace"? No. Beat he wins when he needs to teh majority of teh time. No team could ask for more. They don't give style points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). Ummm... How about Roy Halladay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Guys Wang is the Yankees # 1 starter. He is not an Ace. An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). He is a good pitcher. There is no problem, he will win a lot of games. I just refuse to call him an Ace right now. Yankee Hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Guys Wang is the Yankees # 1 starter. He is not an Ace. An Ace is the guy that beats the other teams # 1 starter. What Ace would Wang beat with all other things being equal (run support, etc). He is a good pitcher. There is no problem, he will win a lot of games. I just refuse to call him an Ace right now. So you're saying that Wang never beats other teams #1's? If I recall right, Wang beat one of the best pitchers in the game, Roy Halladay on opening day. Whens the next excuse coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 So you're saying that Wang never beats other teams #1's? If I recall right, Wang beat one of the best pitchers in the game, Roy Halladay on opening day. Whens the next excuse coming? LOL.....just....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 LOL.....just....lol I don't see why you think it's funny, the guy has one playoff games, that was the first excuse, just because he sucked in last season's playoff games that doesn't make him someone comparable to Alex Rodriguez. The only players I see that are obviously better than Wang are: Beckett Sabathia Halladay Santana Peavy Other than that, Wang can be comparable to any other players. I may have missed maybe 1 or 2 other pitchers, but he can be comparable to anybody, and can beat anybody. Wang is an ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I don't see why you think it's funny, the guy has one playoff games, that was the first excuse, just because he sucked in last season's playoff games that doesn't make him someone comparable to Alex Rodriguez. The only players I see that are obviously better than Wang are: Beckett Sabathia Halladay Santana Peavy Other than that, Wang can be comparable to any other players. I may have missed maybe 1 or 2 other pitchers, but he can be comparable to anybody, and can beat anybody. Wang is an ace. What I think is funny is that you're attacking Max like he's a Red Sox or Mets fan, when infact he's just being fair. And, he's a Yankees fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 What I think is funny is that you're attacking Max like he's a Red Sox or Mets fan, when infact he's just being fair. And, he's a Yankees fan Whats wrong with attacking him for what he said? Are we not allowed to attack the admin of the site, and just say he's right all the time. I think Max would say that he wouldn't want that... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Whats wrong with attacking him for what he said? Are we not allowed to attack the admin of the site, and just say he's right all the time. I think Max would say that he wouldn't want that... lol No...Im just saying, it's not like you're talking to someone with an obvious bias. He's a Yankees fan, so of everyone in threads like these, usually the people who are fans but say something along the lines of "hold on, he's not quite that good," are the most realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I don't see why you think it's funny, the guy has one playoff games, that was the first excuse, just because he sucked in last season's playoff games that doesn't make him someone comparable to Alex Rodriguez. The only players I see that are obviously better than Wang are: Beckett Sabathia Halladay Santana Peavy Other than that, Wang can be comparable to any other players. I may have missed maybe 1 or 2 other pitchers, but he can be comparable to anybody, and can beat anybody. Wang is an ace. Wang is very good, but no one would confuse him with being dominant. He's definitely the Ace of the Yankees staff though. I would arguably take all these guys over Wang right now. Brandon Webb Erik Bedard John Smoltz John Lackey (extremely underrated) Fausto Carmona (I see him as a more dominant version of Wang with his power sinker) Carlos Zambrano ( Maybe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Wang is very good, but no one would confuse him with being dominant. He's definitely the Ace of the Yankees staff though. I would arguably take all these guys over Wang right now. Brandon Webb Erik Bedard John Smoltz John Lackey (extremely underrated) Fausto Carmona (I see him as a more dominant version of Wang with his power sinker) Carlos Zambrano ( Maybe) Brandon Webb is a sinker ball pitcher just like Wang, so actually those 2 are quite similar. I'll give you Bedard, I forgot about him. For John Smoltz, at this point in his career, he isn't better than him, but during his prime, he was. John Lackey, I agree with you that he's underrated, but I would put him in the same boat as Wang. Carmona, just like Webb is a sinker ball pitcher, so he'd be in the same boat with Wang as well. Zambrano blows, and is highly overrated. It is very easy to compare Wang to Webb, Lackey, and Carmona. I don't know how anybody can really say one is better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Wang is very good, but no one would confuse him with being dominant. He's definitely the Ace of the Yankees staff though. I would arguably take all these guys over Wang right now. Brandon Webb Erik Bedard John Smoltz John Lackey (extremely underrated) Fausto Carmona (I see him as a more dominant version of Wang with his power sinker) Carlos Zambrano ( Maybe) When he's on, Z is (in my opinion) capable of being the BEST in the league. Unfortunately, he has a tendancy to fly off from time to time. Just curious, why no Santana or Young? (just two that stick out as not on the list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Just curious, why no Santana or Young? (just two that stick out as not on the list) I think he was just adding to the list that I already had given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Brandon Webb is a sinker ball pitcher just like Wang, so actually those 2 are quite similar. I'll give you Bedard, I forgot about him. For John Smoltz, at this point in his career, he isn't better than him, but during his prime, he was. John Lackey, I agree with you that he's underrated, but I would put him in the same boat as Wang. Carmona, just like Webb is a sinker ball pitcher, so he'd be in the same boat with Wang as well. Zambrano blows, and is highly overrated. It is very easy to compare Wang to Webb, Lackey, and Carmona. I don't know how anybody can really say one is better than the other. Wang does not have the strike out pitch, the explosive sinker those guys have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Wang does not have the strike out pitch, the explosive sinker those guys have. Strikeouts don't really matter with sinker ballers. They all aim for contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Strikeouts don't really matter with sinker ballers. They all aim for contact. Oh, so when Brandon Webb strikes a batter out, it was a mistake. Gotcha. Seems to me a strike out pitch would sure come in handy with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Oh, so when Brandon Webb strikes a batter out, it was a mistake. Gotcha. Seems to me a strike out pitch would sure come in handy with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Dude, why are you putting words in my mouth? Why not actually read what I am saying instead of acting like an *******. You should know for a fact that sinker ballers do not aim for contact, besides actually Wang has worked on pitches during spring, and so far it's turned out well for him, especially in yesterday's start. So again, both Webb, and Carmona are still similar pitchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Dude, why are you putting words in my mouth? Why not actually read what I am saying instead of acting like an *******. You should know for a fact that sinker ballers do not aim for contact, besides actually Wang has worked on pitches during spring, and so far it's turned out well for him, especially in yesterday's start. So again, both Webb, and Carmona are still similar pitchers. First you said "they aim for contact", now you say they don't Who knows which it is with you. You seem to make things up as you go along, to support whatever side you are arguing, reason be damned. Problem is, none of it has any basis in baseball. It is all stuff you make up. I will not talk baseball with you anymore. You are the new Yankee homer (Madmike hands over the crown) who argues just to see his words in type. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 First you said "they aim for contact", now you say they don't Who knows which it is with you. You seem to make things up as you go along, to support whatever side you are arguing, reason be damned. Problem is, none of it has any basis in baseball. It is all stuff you make up. I will not talk baseball with you anymore. You are the new Yankee homer (Madmike hands over the crown) who argues just to see his words in type. Good luck. Throw JCB92387 a bone Scott. He isn't going to be content until we all call Wang an "Ace." I'm not sure how he missed all of the posts in this thread that said Wang was a good pitcher and certainly the best starter the Yankees have. I guess that kind of praise just isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Throw JCB92387 a bone Scott. He isn't going to be content until we all call Wang an "Ace." I'm not sure how he missed all of the posts in this thread that said Wang was a good pitcher and certainly the best starter the Yankees have. I guess that kind of praise just isn't good enough. Im assuming he wants "Wang is better than Santana and Beckett." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Im assuming he wants "Wang is better than Santana and Beckett." Nah, all he wants is for Wang to be called an Ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Nah, all he wants is for Wang to be called an Ace. Wang has won 19 games two years in a row and he's on a pace to do it again. He doesn't have amazing stuff but the guy just wins. He is the Yankees ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Wang has won 19 games two years in a row and he's on a pace to do it again. He doesn't have amazing stuff but the guy just wins. He is the Yankees ace. The team wins most of the time when he pitches. No one has said otherwise. According to JCB, Tim Wakefield should also be an "ace" as he won 17 games last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 The team wins most of the time when he pitches. No one has said otherwise. According to JCB, Tim Wakefield should also be an "ace" as he won 17 games last year. 19 > 17 last time I checked Plus Wang did it two years in a row and he'll probably do it again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 19 > 17 last time I checked Plus Wang did it two years in a row and he'll probably do it again this year. Is Wang an ace in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Another thing I have learned from this thread, besides that JCB9287654321 is a gigantic homer, is that Yankee fans vastly over-rate Roy Halladay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Another thing I have learned from this thread, besides that JCB9287654321 is a gigantic homer, is that Yankee fans vastly over-rate Roy Halladay. Great point. Halladay happens to be the #1 starter for the Blue Jays. He is no ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 wang is a great #2 guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Other than that, Wang can be comparable to any other players. I may have missed maybe 1 or 2 other pitchers, but he can be comparable to anybody, and can beat anybody. Wang is an ace. Can I ask a question.... Why do you need validation that Wang is an ace? What does it change? Do you get an extra win for it? Do you get an extra out? I dont get this entire argument. He's a good pitcher. He's been overlooked because of the other pitchers that have been on the staff. He isnt a loudmouth. He doesnt strikeout 20. So you think he's an ace? Great. Wonderful. If that's what you want to think, fine. But do you really think everyone is going to climb aboard the Wang Train and tell you how great and wonderful of a poster you are because you were the first guy to call Wang an ace? I've got an idea... if people here agree with JCB, pos. rep him and tell him how smart he is. That'll make him feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Can I ask a question.... Why do you need validation that Wang is an ace? What does it change? Do you get an extra win for it? Do you get an extra out? I dont get this entire argument. He's a good pitcher. He's been overlooked because of the other pitchers that have been on the staff. He isnt a loudmouth. He doesnt strikeout 20. So you think he's an ace? Great. Wonderful. If that's what you want to think, fine. But do you really think everyone is going to climb aboard the Wang Train and tell you how great and wonderful of a poster you are because you were the first guy to call Wang an ace? I've got an idea... if people here agree with JCB, pos. rep him and tell him how smart he is. That'll make him feel good. the wang train that sounds dirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 [quote name='Blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 First you said "they aim for contact", now you say they don't Who knows which it is with you. You seem to make things up as you go along, to support whatever side you are arguing, reason be damned. Problem is, none of it has any basis in baseball. It is all stuff you make up. I will not talk baseball with you anymore. You are the new Yankee homer (Madmike hands over the crown) who argues just to see his words in type. Good luck. Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Yawn. Smilies are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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