Pats fans: did you get the LB you wanted?

[stoicsentry]

NE needs LB's NOW, not on the job training projects like VGhol.

I fell for the scam like Tangini did. NE baited NY into taking VGhol

First you say Gholston is good, and NE should get him. Then AS SOON AS the Jets take him is when you suddenly realize he's a waste. How convenient.

[OJDidIt]

First you say Gholston is good, and NE should get him. Then AS SOON AS the Jets take him is when you suddenly realize he's a waste. How convenient.

Pats fans don't watch the draft. they are too busy combing their mullets in the middle of the connecticut forests while waiting for some unfortunate racoon to present itself as dinner.

[Alk]

Pats fans don't watch the draft. they are too busy combing their mullets in the middle of the connecticut forests while waiting for some unfortunate racoon to present itself as dinner.

Well, that wasn't what I was doing but that would be one of about 150,000,000 things that would be more entertaining.

[OJDidIt]

:D:D:cheers:

Well, that wasn't what I was doing but that would be one of about 150,000,000 things that would be more entertaining.

[Thai Jet]

NE needs LB's NOW, not on the job training projects like VGhol.

I fell for the scam like Tangini did. NE baited NY into taking VGhol

You're so full of **** I can smell it out here.

[Thai Jet]

You set yourself up for that.

It's nothing personal, I just think you're a dumbass.

I think that's the majority opinion at this point.

[RSJ]

Sure he has. Like Mangold.

What about Maurice Clarett or Santonio Holmes? Holmes got arrested twice before training camp.

OSU is not a school known for high academics. The point is that VGhol has to learn a very complex defense and change postions.

He already played a similar position at OSU. But I'm sure you already knew that.

[PatriotReign37]

He already played a similar position at OSU. But I'm sure you already knew that.

He played DE at OSU. Similar or Leo is BS.

It's a complex system, but we had that at Ohio State so I don't think I'll have too many problems learning it," said Gholston, who played defensive end at Ohio State but could play outside linebacker for the Jets

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080427/SPORTS01/804270378/1108/SPORTS01

[PatriotReign37]

You're so full of **** I can smell it out here.

How can you be so certain that NE actually wanted VGhol?

Because I said so?

[Thai Jet]

He played DE at OSU. Similar or Leo is BS.

It's a complex system, but we had that at Ohio State so I don't think I'll have too many problems learning it," said Gholston, who played defensive end at Ohio State but could play outside linebacker for the Jets

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080427/SPORTS01/804270378/1108/SPORTS01

Give it up already.

[Thai Jet]

How can you be so certain that NE actually wanted VGhol?

Because I said so?

I'm sure the TV analysts were wrong too and that you're right.

[Thai Jet]

NE baited the Jets in to taking Gholston?

Are you retarded?

I think you know the answer to that one IC.

[Heck67]

Doesn't matter who it was same crap every year up here Pats can do no wrong call a spade a spade like the NY papers do! 5 picks cut last year another great draft for a team that needs youth job well done Pats.

Last year the Pats went 18-1 and your critiquing them???? LMFAO

[Heck67]

You're so full of **** I can smell it out here.

Thats just New York you smell

[Lil Bit Special]

Thats just New York you smell

Max/ Mods....

Do you think there is any way we can set up a training course on how to be a troll? These newer trolls really suck...

You think anyway we can get Alk, Garb or Gainzo to teach these guys a thing or 2? Its fun when you have trolls who can actually have a discussion, but look at this post above. "Thats just New York you smell" Seriously.. thats the best he can do? What a friggin embarrassment.

Trolls, if you cant troll properly, dont troll at all.

[PatriotReign37]

If the reports are true that NE and NO had their trade hammered out pre draft then yes, NE got the guy they wanted and never wanted VGhol in the first place.

[glenn212]

they wanted Keith Rivers and CINCY trumped them at #9...I believe thats what happened..And why they did it..money..a 10th makes a lot less then a 7th and they were **** sure their boy KEITH RIVERS would be chillin at 10..OWNED by the Bengals

[SUorangefootball]

Yes, NE got a LB. Mayo has played LB since pee wee football. All 3 LB positions in fact.

NY got a DE who better learn the LB spot FAST because he is too small to play DE in the Pros.

Those of you that are religious should pray every night. OSU players arent the brightest candles.

How do you figure 6'4 265 is too small to play end in the pros? Just checking, but didn't he have both hands down the majority of the year when he set every Ohio State sack record? And as far as smarts, no offense, but go listen to Gholston talk and tell me he isn't smart. The guy clearly has above average intelligence, hell, he was a better public speaker than our President!

[JonEJet]

You have to think the Pats wanted Rivers

Setled with Mayo, who has tremendous upside

I feel the rest of the Pats draft has alot to be desired

[PatriotReign37]

You have to think the Pats wanted Rivers

Setled with Mayo, who has tremendous upside

I feel the rest of the Pats draft has alot to be desired

Why? They focused on defense and speed.

And, MAYBE a future QB to take over when Brady enters the HOF. Its never too early to develop a guy.

Where did you hear the Rivers thing?

[Boozer76]

If the reports are true that NE and NO had their trade hammered out pre draft then yes, NE got the guy they wanted and never wanted VGhol in the first place.

Come on man, you get dumber by the minute. Most trades are hammered out pre-draft CONTINGENT UPON the player that the team in the higher slot wanted is not there OR the teams offering the trade is just plain offering too much. If the trade was hammered out to be definite pre-draft regardless of what player was available to NE then the trade would have happened and been announced pre-draft. NE didn't do that because they wanted to see what player fell to them. The players the Pats wanted (Long or Gholston) were not available so they opted for NO's trade offer which still stood since NO was targeting Ellis.

The Pats likely had a standing trade agreement with KC in place as well, however KC was targeting Dorsey and the Pats offer was not good enough to prompt them to give up a shot at Dorsey. KC also knew that, in that case, we would have traded out to NO who would likely have taken Dorsey instead, laving KC with Ellis. Given that KC was not being offered enough to compensate for the difference between Ellis and Dorsey in their minds, they stood pat and rejected the Pats trade offer.

You know it, I know it, and the whole world knows it. Your team was targeting the guy you liked the most, and they lost out on him.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Come on man, you get dumber by the minute. Most trades are hammered out pre-draft CONTINGENT UPON the player that the team in the higher slot wanted is not there OR the teams offering the trade is just plain offering too much. If the trade was hammered out to be definite pre-draft regardless of what player was available to NE then the trade would have happened and been announced pre-draft. NE didn't do that because they wanted to see what player fell to them. The players the Pats wanted (Long or Gholston) were not available so they opted for NO's trade offer which still stood since NO was targeting Ellis.

The Pats likely had a standing trade agreement with KC in place as well, however KC was targeting Dorsey and the Pats offer was not good enough to prompt them to give up a shot at Dorsey. KC also knew that, in that case, we would have traded out to NO who would likely have taken Dorsey instead, laving KC with Ellis. Given that KC was not being offered enough to compensate for the difference between Ellis and Dorsey in their minds, they stood pat and rejected the Pats trade offer.

You know it, I know it, and the whole world knows it. Your team was targeting the guy you liked the most, and they lost out on him.

Both the Pats and Saints have said the only thing the trade was contingent on was if Ellis was still available at 7. So your theory is off base. The trade would have occurred if Gholston was still on the board.

The reality is other than BB and few others nobody really knows if the Pats would have taken Gholston or Rivers if all three were available.

The Patriots don't need a DE, they need LBs. Gholston might transition to LB or he might remain a DE. Mayo is an LB, as BB considers LB a position that is difficult to learn, I suspect he would prefer someone who actually has played LB. Mayo has also shown the kind of flexibility that BB covets.

I doubt getting an extra 3rd draft pick was BB's only motivation for trading down. The Patriots have salary cap issues, and BB loathes paying big bucks on an unproven rookie. The Jets will like pay Gholston considerably more than the Pats will pay Mayo, so even if Gholston is slightly better than Mayo, his value in terms of contribution per dollar is unlikely to be higher than Mayo's. And although Gholston may some day be a pro-bowler, he also seems to have some of the markings of a potential bust. Mayo appears to have slightly less upside, but also considerably less downside than Gholston. But then again given the teams relative situations the Jets need to take more risks than the Patriots, who need to fine tune their team to win one more game than they one last year, the Jets need wholesale changes.

But the entire question of did the Pats get the LB they wanted is pretty moot. The Jets earned the right to pick before the Patriots by virtue of their dismal 4-12 season. Unlike the Jets, the Patriots rarely get to take a top 10 draft pick, this year they got lucky because SF did much worse than people expected, but the goal of every team is to pick late in the draft not early. BB has probably never gotten his first choice in a draft, particularly in those years when he picked #32. This year, he may have gotten his first choice or maybe not, but certainly much closer to his first choice than in other years.

[afosomf]

Both the Pats and Saints have said the only thing the trade was contingent on was if Ellis was still available at 7. So your theory is off base. The trade would have occurred if Gholston was still on the board.

The reality is other than BB and few others nobody really knows if the Pats would have taken Gholston or Rivers if all three were available.

The Patriots don't need a DE, they need LBs. Gholston might transition to LB or he might remain a DE. Mayo is an LB, as BB considers LB a position that is difficult to learn, I suspect he would prefer someone who actually has played LB. Mayo has also shown the kind of flexibility that BB covets.

I doubt getting an extra 3rd draft pick was BB's only motivation for trading down. The Patriots have salary cap issues, and BB loathes paying big bucks on an unproven rookie. The Jets will like pay Gholston considerably more than the Pats will pay Mayo, so even if Gholston is slightly better than Mayo, his value in terms of contribution per dollar is unlikely to be higher than Mayo's. And although Gholston may some day be a pro-bowler, he also seems to have some of the markings of a potential bust. Mayo appears to have slightly less upside, but also considerably less downside than Gholston. But then again given the teams relative situations the Jets need to take more risks than the Patriots, who need to fine tune their team to win one more game than they one last year, the Jets need wholesale changes.

But the entire question of did the Pats get the LB they wanted is pretty moot. The Jets earned the right to pick before the Patriots by virtue of their dismal 4-12 season. Unlike the Jets, the Patriots rarely get to take a top 10 draft pick, this year they got lucky because SF did much worse than people expected, but the goal of every team is to pick late in the draft not early. BB has probably never gotten his first choice in a draft, particularly in those years when he picked #32. This year, he may have gotten his first choice or maybe not, but certainly much closer to his first choice than in other years.

Do you really believe anything coming out of their Mouths??

[PatriotReign37]

Come on man, you get dumber by the minute. Most trades are hammered out pre-draft CONTINGENT UPON the player that the team in the higher slot wanted is not there OR the teams offering the trade is just plain offering too much. If the trade was hammered out to be definite pre-draft regardless of what player was available to NE then the trade would have happened and been announced pre-draft. NE didn't do that because they wanted to see what player fell to them. The players the Pats wanted (Long or Gholston) were not available so they opted for NO's trade offer which still stood since NO was targeting Ellis.

The Pats likely had a standing trade agreement with KC in place as well, however KC was targeting Dorsey and the Pats offer was not good enough to prompt them to give up a shot at Dorsey. KC also knew that, in that case, we would have traded out to NO who would likely have taken Dorsey instead, laving KC with Ellis. Given that KC was not being offered enough to compensate for the difference between Ellis and Dorsey in their minds, they stood pat and rejected the Pats trade offer.

You know it, I know it, and the whole world knows it. Your team was targeting the guy you liked the most, and they lost out on him.

You are too funny. Belichick plays his card close to the vest like none other. There is NO WAY he NE would announce anything pre draft. Are you that naive?

FYI, May**** had Mayo rated as the # 1 LB in the draft. NE had Mayo in and made him diagram defenses on a board. Mayo is a student of the game and spends countless hours watching film and learning new defensive schemes.

NE has needed an ILB to replace Bruschi for years. Someone that can call the defensive adjustments and knows where every player on the defense is going. They've tried people there like Klecko, Biesel, but nobody was better than a Old Tedy Bruschi. Vrabel played there but he is better suited outside.

NE didnt need a OLB since they have Vrabel and Thomas. Thats all VGhol MIGHT be if he learns the system and can adjust to standing up.

Futhermore, NE played NY like a fiddle already in the Drob debacle. The Jets were convinced that NE wanted him and did everything possible to get him. Its all been well documented. One doesnt have to suspend disbelief that it may have happened again.

You certainly took the bait.

[Irish Jet]

Mayo would have been there 10 picks later IMO.

[PatriotReign37]

Mayo would have been there 10 picks later IMO.

How many times have you seen Mayo play in person?

How long have you been an NFL scout ?

What you've read in draft magazines and $1.00 buys a hotdog.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

What you've read in draft magazines and $1.00 buys a hotdog.

WHERE??????? I haven't seen a hot dog selling that inexpensively in years.....

[drago]

Both the Pats and Saints have said the only thing the trade was contingent on was if Ellis was still available at 7. So your theory is off base. The trade would have occurred if Gholston was still on the board.

The reality is other than BB and few others nobody really knows if the Pats would have taken Gholston or Rivers if all three were available.

The Patriots don't need a DE, they need LBs. Gholston might transition to LB or he might remain a DE. Mayo is an LB, as BB considers LB a position that is difficult to learn, I suspect he would prefer someone who actually has played LB. Mayo has also shown the kind of flexibility that BB covets.

I doubt getting an extra 3rd draft pick was BB's only motivation for trading down. The Patriots have salary cap issues, and BB loathes paying big bucks on an unproven rookie. The Jets will like pay Gholston considerably more than the Pats will pay Mayo, so even if Gholston is slightly better than Mayo, his value in terms of contribution per dollar is unlikely to be higher than Mayo's. And although Gholston may some day be a pro-bowler, he also seems to have some of the markings of a potential bust. Mayo appears to have slightly less upside, but also considerably less downside than Gholston. But then again given the teams relative situations the Jets need to take more risks than the Patriots, who need to fine tune their team to win one more game than they one last year, the Jets need wholesale changes.

But the entire question of did the Pats get the LB they wanted is pretty moot. The Jets earned the right to pick before the Patriots by virtue of their dismal 4-12 season. Unlike the Jets, the Patriots rarely get to take a top 10 draft pick, this year they got lucky because SF did much worse than people expected, but the goal of every team is to pick late in the draft not early. BB has probably never gotten his first choice in a draft, particularly in those years when he picked #32. This year, he may have gotten his first choice or maybe not, but certainly much closer to his first choice than in other years.

Good post.

First off, Gholston playing DE in college would not stop BB from selecting him. I'm pretty sure BB wasn't around when they took Vrable, but he has to understand the relationship and how nice it must be having a swiss army kinfe type player in Vrable. Vrable has to be one of the best linebackers the patriots never talk about. Having a guy that can line up and DE, OLBer, ILBer, bring as much physicality and inteligence to a team is immeasurable.

I don't know where the Gholston's intelligence/work ethic compares to Vrable and they went to OSU about a decade apart with different head coaches, but you'd have to think BB would like the similarities enough to rate Gholston just behind C. Long.

As for the pats rarely getting THE player that they wanted, i heard a few years ago that the pats had Maroney ranked as their number one RB (even over bush) and had Jackson listed as their number one receiver (over Holmes). Now, i doubt they were his number players in the draft but i do believe BB has gotten exactly who he has wanted more than a few times...despite their later draft picks.

[StillerPaul]

Good post.

First off, Gholston playing DE in college would not stop BB from selecting him. I'm pretty sure BB wasn't around when they took Vrable, but he has to understand the relationship and how nice it must be having a swiss army kinfe type player in Vrable. Vrable has to be one of the best linebackers the patriots never talk about. Having a guy that can line up and DE, OLBer, ILBer, bring as much physicality and inteligence to a team is immeasurable.

I don't know where the Gholston's intelligence/work ethic compares to Vrable and they went to OSU about a decade apart with different head coaches, but you'd have to think BB would like the similarities enough to rate Gholston just behind C. Long.

As for the pats rarely getting THE player that they wanted, i heard a few years ago that the pats had Maroney ranked as their number one RB (even over bush) and had Jackson listed as their number one receiver (over Holmes). Now, i doubt they were his number players in the draft but i do believe BB has gotten exactly who he has wanted more than a few times...despite their later draft picks.

Patsy's didn't draft Vrable, Steelers did. Very good post tho. Alot of us outsiders (neither pats or Jets fans) believe that Gholston was the player BB had targeted and had hoped would fall to him as well. I've seen Mocks that had Mayo going at #23 to the Steelers and hoped we wouldn't draft him.

[drago]

Patsy's didn't draft Vrable, Steelers did. Very good post tho. Alot of us outsiders (neither pats or Jets fans) believe that Gholston was the player BB had targeted and had hoped would fall to him as well. I've seen Mocks that had Mayo going at #23 to the Steelers and hoped we wouldn't draft him.

I don't know much about Mayo other than he is a sort of Vilma clone. I can understand why you as a Steeler (34 defense) fan would want to pass on him.

For all the NE ball washing that takes place at ESPN you'd think they'd look at a few of the pats' last drafts and notice that Jackson can't find the field, their safety (merriweather?) last year didn't preform to expectations, and maroney can't carry the load on his own. Their good picks have been linemen but it's becoming rare to draft a bust linemen. Fergesun & Gallery are the only recent examples and the jury is still out on both seeing as they both can play, they just can't play like a top 5 pick should play.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

For all the NE ball washing that takes place at ESPN .

New England has had some great late round drafts (QB in the 6th) but I tend to think people over-emphasis BB's drafting and under-emphasis how well BB manages to rape other teams in trades. Moss for a 6th? Wes Welker was a steal for a 2nd round pick, particularly if you compare that to picking Chad Jackson in the 2nd round.

[StillerPaul]

I don't know much about Mayo other than he is a sort of Vilma clone. I can understand why you as a Steeler (34 defense) fan would want to pass on him.

For all the NE ball washing that takes place at ESPN you'd think they'd look at a few of the pats' last drafts and notice that Jackson can't find the field, their safety (merriweather?) last year didn't preform to expectations, and maroney can't carry the load on his own. Their good picks have been linemen but it's becoming rare to draft a bust linemen. Fergesun & Gallery are the only recent examples and the jury is still out on both seeing as they both can play, they just can't play like a top 5 pick should play.

Yep. The patsy success rate in the draft is on the dramatic decline. Hardly any of the media wants to acknowledge it. Turns out they are only human as well.

[drago]

New England has had some great late round drafts (QB in the 6th) but I tend to think people over-emphasis BB's drafting and under-emphasis how well BB manages to rape other teams in trades. Moss for a 6th? Wes Welker was a steal for a 2nd round pick, particularly if you compare that to picking Chad Jackson in the 2nd round.

Exactly, it was from trades that BB has really found his success. He seems to be the only compitent coach out there that realized Brady/Manning don't need receivers to be like TO or Moss to survive. Evident by trade Dieon Branch for a first. Are you kidding? a ****ing first? Dieon Branch sucks...ok he doesn't suck, he's reasonably fast, strong rather tall-ish and runs good routes. Give me a break, ton's of receivers do that and apparently BB was the only one to notice.

I think they got Moss for a 4th but that was even worse than Branch for a first. Someday the rest will catch on. But yes, to your point, i agree that his trading far surpasses his drafting (minus late round luck, and late round skill)

[Thai Jet]

How many times have you seen Mayo play in person?

How long have you been an NFL scout ?

What you've read in draft magazines and $1.00 buys a hotdog.

You're quite the spin doctor I'll give ya that.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Was Jerod Mayo the pick the Patriots wanted all along? Did they really want Gholston, but after the Jets took him, just said oh well and trade down?

I'm reading that they had this trade down in place before the draft. The Boston media is yet again stroking the NE front office, calling it masterful.

What say ye, Patriot faithful?

Yes.

Mayo has 13 tackles in 2 games. Started both. Only defensive player to play every down in KC game. Not sure if he played every defensive down in the Jets game or he came out for a couple.